A "kingslayer" medal was awarded ?

[Yrthilian]

I did not see this anywhere and yes i know i am a little behind in making a topic
work stuff and firewalls blocking me most of the time.

[color=#CCCCCC]Ann. 2172 - [2012-01-17 14:27:12 - Stage 11][/color]
A "kingslayer" medal was awarded retroactively to the following players for classified missions of obvious nature . These actions include recent but also ancient events where pressure was put on certain leading characters to test their strength or find their breaking point:[b] *dst*, Granos, Eon [/b]

In regards to the above anno i would like to request details of this so called mission?
Whom they took down and proof of this.

I for one can say none of the mentioned players made me resign it was the council that did that.
But I also think if you are going to announce this public then you should provide log's and proof of the intent
otherwise it look to be a load of BULL to reward players for nothing.

This is ofc myown opinion on this matter and i would just like clarification on the statment of the Kingslayer medal

Edited January 19, 2012 by Yrthilian

[Seigheart]

Yah, I am kind of curious about this event as well...

I know there was a plan to have the current set of Kings removed, but as far as I know, only dst and Granos were involved, but that plan failed due to them resigning

[Grido]

Whilst yes, I would like to know what they did, would also like to say that it might've been actions against other kings. And also "to test their strengths OR breaking points" the king didn't necessarily have to resign due to the actions, but react strongly or something, idk

I'd kinda like one though, I did get elections to start* for kingship in relation to Yrth being king (and he nearly lost).**


*Which then triggered the other elections to start.

**We're good now

Edited January 19, 2012 by Grido

[Yrthilian]

my point here is. nether one of them made me retire nor theire actions
My resighning was dew to stuff that was failed to be done after agreement for over a year or even 2 at this point

so i would like to know what and how they did what is claimed and how long it took

Edited January 19, 2012 by Yrthilian

[Seigheart]

There are three other kings other than yourself Yrth

[Sharazhad]

[color=#008000][i]I also have some question marks about this announcement.[/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]From the announcement it is stated that players were put to a breaking point; which is assumed to be a mental breaking point, because any other breaking point would not be feasible in game. This would then mean that the dynamics of the game would be shifted from MD to RL as you are now "messing with the person's head". The fact that someone is awarded a medal for testing a person's breaking point is sick!!! I do not stand for this, it is wrong and twisted. Is this where MD is heading to? if you cant get them in game, play mind games?! Pathetic! [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]If the kings left, it can not be assumed that it was due to in game issues only and shouldn't be awarded for it. [/i] [/color]

[Yrthilian]

Thanks Shar that puts my view in a clear way.
I know i was not the only king and i know more of this issue than most.
I feel what was done or "claimed" to have been done is a load of BULL
as there is no proof given of this.

Ok i know DST got hers for good reason i know why she did and yes it was a very long time ago.
The other well nothing has been said other than they did it and where asked to do it
Hell if i made a statment like that i would get hounded for proof and what not.

I am not so closed minded to think i am the only one affected by this
As shar said this announcment make is more out of game and very personal
to attack someone in this way.

[Chewett]

Both lifeline and Handy blamed me for resigning, doesnt mean it was my fault, i look forward to the next attempt on MB kingship, LOL

As for this medal, Its Mur's opinion on it all, There are some things that are just unsaid and cannot be said. If Mur wants to make a medal based on things only he has seen, Then i trust his judgement. Because in the end this medal is solely based on his judgement. Similar to when SS got jailed for whatever he did. People didnt question exatly what he asked or found out etc.

[Sharazhad]

[color=#008000][i]0.o Chewy did you really just say that?! [/i][/color]
[color=#008000][i]That annoucement basically encourages online bullying and harrassement!! It sends out the message that Mur stands for that because he: 1) sent out people to on a "mission" to "test breaking points" and 2) he awarded people for it! [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]Why is Mur's judgement on this not questioned when this little "quest" clearly crossed boundaries? Have you forgotten that Mur is still human? The fact that he knows a sufficient amount of programming doesnt give him god-like status. He has no right to make such a twisted quest. I dont care if you ban me from MD, or throw me in jail for saying this but what Mur did was WRONG!!!! [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]If the purpose of this mission was to get rid of the kings, why not do something similar to festival of pain, or make a forum post about it. These tactics are underhanded and unethical. [/i][/color]

[color=#696969][i]edited for typos[/i][/color]

Edited January 19, 2012 by Sharazhad

[Yrthilian]

The issue here Chewett is that it says King Slayer.
As i was one i would like to know personaly as i am sure the other kings would too.
Mur does not "HAVE" to say why. But that does not stop me asking how? what? why? when?

I have no issue with the rewards if they are Genualy given for it but still a bit sick in my mind.
but that is my persional opinion on that.

Since it is such a broad announcment i wanted to question it.

[Seigheart]

How about you stop assuming things, Sharazhad. You don't know what happened. Stop making conclusions until you hear both sides of the story.

[Yrthilian]

@Seig. the point is we are asking. and as stated to bring someone to the point of breaking "IS" an attack on[i] their mentality.[/i]
[i]as in normaly game terms this could not have happened.[/i]

[Seigheart]

What he could mean is that Eon, dst, and Granos are so annoying and purposely do things like this for fun, and some king said **** it, and gave up.

[Prince Marvolo]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1326991047' post='101229']
What he could mean is that Eon, dst, and Granos are so annoying and purposely do things like this for fun, and some king said **** it, and gave up.
[/quote]

And that is Indeed worth an award.
Congratulations

...

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1326990392' post='101227']
How about you stop assuming things, Sharazhad. You don't know what happened. Stop making conclusions until you hear both sides of the story.
[/quote]

[i][color=#008000] Seigheart, you have to understand when a public announcement is made people will react differently and from a simple layperson's point of view, this stinks of mindplaying, bullying, harrassement. Worst of all rewarded for. I am quite happy to hear the otherside of the story.... answers to Yrth's questions that he posted above.[/color][/i]

[Seigheart]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I dont think this deserves a medal at all. Infact, it sounds more like jailable material.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1326989231' post='101222']
Both lifeline and Handy blamed me for resigning, doesnt mean it was my fault, i look forward to the next attempt on MB kingship, LOL
[/quote]
[quote name='Sharazhad' timestamp='1326990306' post='101225']
[color=#008000][i]0.o Chewy did you really just say that?! [/i][/color]
[/quote]
Clearly you missed the sarcasm there hence the "LOL" at the end of the comment also... I would hope by now, some people would relise not everything i say is serious... Its not like iv never been sarcastic before..

[color=#008000][i][quote name='Sharazhad' timestamp='1326990306' post='101225'] [/i][/color]
[color=#008000][i]That annoucement basically encourages online bullying and harrassement!! It sends out the message that Mur stands for that because he: 1) sent out people to on a "mission" to "test breaking points" and 2) he awarded people for it! [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]Why is Mur's judgement on this not questioned when this little "quest" clearly crossed boundaries? Have you forgotten that Mur is still human? The fact that he knows a sufficient amount of programming doesnt give him god-like status. He has no right to make such a twisted quest. I dont care if you ban me from MD, or throw me in jail for saying this but what Mur did was WRONG!!!! [/i][/color]
[/quote]

And yet when i questioned the wonderful sponsering of Tipu's theif quest, no one seemed to really care. Neither of these are good things i feel, But it seems like some people only care about specific things.

[Muratus del Mur]

@yrth:
"[i]otherwise it look to be a load of BULL to reward players for nothing.[/i]"

so damn CUTE. what else can i say I can and will reward anything i consider worth rewarding from good to bad things, organized effort is rewardable. The decision to give this medal is solely mine. Ofc you can ask why, I never mind that, however i do mind the sort of attitude you have on this one.

"Whom they took down and proof of this."

I gave the medals so late, because I didn't wanted them to sound as a motivation as if i would say "good boy this is the way to get medals, kill your neighbor". Obviously I will not detail the secrets of a secret mission. I assumed this is clear from the start. I will not mention who slayed who, out of[b] respect [/b]for the involved people (those 'slayed'). Imagine how it would be for me to say "haha, dst mentally slaughtered , lets say, seigheart" ..or such things. The medal is well deserved but just that.


@Sharazhad, the breaking points are only in relation to the persons role. I constantly push and test CHARACTERS in key positions, in such ways that they will never notice or know it and hopefully when they less expect it. It has nothing to do with the person behind the character. [b]My role in the realm is one of a demon and i play it fully.[/b] You think i crossed the line? I only redirected certain forces to certain purposes, things IN REALM against things IN REALM.
Why was it not "public"? First of all you have no idea what it is you are talking about that it was. Secondly it was not public because if the involved person would pass the test, the only possible reward for that person would be its own success. Thirdly, if you know you are tested you would not behave as you are and the 'test; would be influenced. Come on people, this is so obvious.

@seigheart, last time i checked i didn't hired you as lawyer

[Seigheart]

If you wish to hear my reasoning behind sponsoring that quest, I'm more than glad to.

[Liberty4life]

[list]
[*]kingslayer is simbolic meaning, as mur said it doesnt have to be king but it could be any person that was considered leader (see annoucement for exact quote)
[*]there was NO mission/quest for screwing kings/leaders, players who did it did it on their own initiative and responsibility
[*]i persoanlly found this very good thing to award such actions, leaders should always be tested of their abilities on how to handle things that concern them, if they cant then they arent fit of their position
[/list]
from mine point of view this is same thing as bug testing, consider this one called social testing, bug testers test if system is workin as intended while this social testers are testing if leading bodies are fit for their function, just imagine if instead of them there was person who was willing to go step further and not only break king but break whole land as well

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1326991614' post='101236']
@yrth:
"[i]otherwise it look to be a load of BULL to reward players for nothing.[/i]"

so damn CUTE. what else can i say I can and will reward anything i consider worth rewarding from good to bad things, organized effort is rewardable. The decision to give this medal is solely mine. Ofc you can ask why, I never mind that, however i do mind the sort of attitude you have on this one.

"Whom they took down and proof of this."

I gave the medals so late, because I didn't wanted them to sound as a motivation as if i would say "good boy this is the way to get medals, kill your neighbor". Obviously I will not detail the secrets of a secret mission. I assumed this is clear from the start. I will not mention who slayed who, out of[b] respect [/b]for the involved people (those 'slayed'). Imagine how it would be for me to say "haha, dst mentally slaughtered , lets say, seigheart" ..or such things. The medal is well deserved but just that.

[/quote]

I will only respond to this bit as it is directed at me.

I did not say you could not reward whom you like or how you like. There was no attitude behind my asking.
I was genualy wanting to know whom was supposed to have been taken down. I know from one of the names
it was very long ago. Back when kings where barly even a thought.

So the title kingslay be it symbolic it says kingslayer so this would be aimed at the kings.
It also insults the last batch of kings as it is not clearly defined.
So you insult all the kings in this one statment.
It does not matter if that was or was not the intent it still happened and from the reaction some
think it was an attack on the person not the character.

As i am one of thoes kings whom may or may not have been slaied i asked to find out.
since it was made public by an announcment. I figured best to ask publicly.

yes i am angered by the announcment but that is because it was stated in a way that
made it feel personal and not just to me. But that is not why i posted the topic.

Could i ask what attitude did you assume i took as there is a point in all of this too.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Yrthilian

[Muratus del Mur]

Yrth, you wanted proof as if it was a public contest and i cheated it. thats the attitude i refer to. You said what i did is bullshit, covered up. Lets not fight here, This medal was not made to mock former kings in any way don't drag it in that direction.

I take pride in being my own judge and analyzing and reanalyzing my own mistakes and deeds over and over again.
There is one single thing i consider incomplete and maybe wrong in what i did. I wish I could have told each person I tested over the time what it was that i found out. I don't think i ever did that. I did things to make them realize their flaws, indirectly, but i consider it outrageous and offending for me to tell them where they failed in a test they never accepted to take.

I will not discussed individual cases because i still want to avoid pointing the finger at one or the other king. As they are now, all have an excuse they can use for avoiding to be individually targeted by this announcement. Resignation, my direct punishment, lack of tools, you name it. Naming one or the other character how they "failed", would be a punishment I didnt intended.

[Yrthilian]

@ Mur

I did not intent to make sound like it was cheated. I suppose timing and sounding of the announcment brought with it the views that where expressed.
As i said i did not intent to drag it in a bad direction. I genualy wanted to know what was not said. I also did not mean for it to sound like it was cheated
I would hope you know me well enough to know that i see you diffrently and know that i respect most of what you say and argue some of what you say
through my own point of view. Even if you think it is not mine

Many know i am bad with expressing what i think with word it is one of my major flaws i still have not beaten.
All i was asking was for some clarification and i think in what you have said it is more clear to me. In the end
even if i could not get it asked corectly i still got the result i was looking for.

To add "IF" i am one who ever gets tested (not the i expect to ever be tested) that i would rather you tell me so.
No matter the outcome. The thing is i prefer to be told what i did wrong that what i did right in most cases.
I prefer to know i still have a long way to go but praise is also a good thing.

I do however apoligise if this seemed to be an attack on you personaly it was not intended in that way at all.
I know i get my written comunication screwed up. As you may know i am better with words in person than i am on a screen
as we have had some really good talks in the past.

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Liberty4life' timestamp='1326991791' post='101238']
from mine point of view this is same thing as bug testing, consider this one called social testing, bug testers test if system is workin as intended while this social testers are testing if leading bodies are fit for their function, just imagine if instead of them there was person who was willing to go step further and not only break king but break whole land as well
[/quote]

You mean like, say, Jester?

[Sharazhad]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1326991614' post='101236']

@Sharazhad, the breaking points are only in relation to the persons role. I constantly push and test CHARACTERS in key positions, in such ways that they will never notice or know it and hopefully when they less expect it. It has nothing to do with the person behind the character. [b]My role in the realm is one of a demon and i play it fully.[/b] You think i crossed the line? I only redirected certain forces to certain purposes, things IN REALM against things IN REALM.
Why was it not "public"? First of all you have no idea what it is you are talking about that it was. Secondly it was not public because if the involved person would pass the test, the only possible reward for that person would be its own success. Thirdly, if you know you are tested you would not behave as you are and the 'test; would be influenced. Come on people, this is so obvious.

[/quote]

[color=#008000][i]OMFG. If I ever had a reason to leave a game this is it. Tell me Mur, do you have a degree in Psychiatry? Psychology even? Where do you even get off "testing" people? What is your basis for this? What do you hope to achieve? Do really you see yourself as a scientist and we are your labrats? [/i][/color]
[color=#008000][i]You say that your "tests" have nothing to do with the person behind the character. I say you are mistaken. On the start up page you appeal the player [b]to take a part of their own character [/b]and give it a name. Who are you testing then if not the player themselves?! [/i][/color]

[color=#008000][i]If you are going to be performing experiments on people, they should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want to be part of this twisted scenario. I hope you realise that what you are doing (finding breaking points on your unknowing subjects or whatever other crazy experiments the MD populous is undergoing) is unethical and can be considered a violation of human rights[/i][/color].