Discussion Development Focus 155-7

[Tom Pouce]

[color=#0000ff]Split from the Council Topic http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/12400-development-focus/[/color]
[color=#0000cd]~Burns[/color]

Comments to you guys

I dont understand your attitude

You negative rep suggestions to make life easier or more interesting to new players ... You want to only remain essentially with the actual population of players?

You negative rep suggestion to put tools in hand of new players, you dont want them to see or learn the part of the game of using tools, making some wealth?
You want it to remain only in hands of a few? and then you complain that new players think only of fighting not trying the other game possibilities.

You negative rep suggestion to lower soemewhat or give possibility to lower negative impact of viscosity on new players. You dont want new players? you dont want new players that will try to quest, and explore MD?

I have try to get in MD some players i have know in another online game. I am talking of players that have play the same game for over 3 years (so dont talk about kids that want only to pow pow) (and that game is a sand box where one make its own way, and survive or build not a kiddy game only) of them not one remain here.

I dont know but i think this community need to think a little in that line ..

Its just my opinion ...

Remark:
only 3 posts negative rep
BFH post saying MD need new players
and my 2 posts ..

Edited June 4, 2012 by Burns

[Liberty4life]

i didnt neg reped yoar post, but imo its still bad idea, why?

yoar suggestions will lead to make md faster paced game, well md is meant to be slow paced game, thats all i can say about yoar suggestion

it isnt problem on what ya suggest, rather is problem that ya suggest change on wrong way

viscosity is god given thing and it should have been there since beginning

makin newbs move faster, makin newbs gets items easily will lead to as i already said to faster pace of game, and also make alts again more common, with recent restrictions, alts are nuw used minimally, only few of us remained who actually play alts without havin them for some profit but rather for our own joy, so i dont want to see folks usin alts to go here and there faster, nor would i like to see fresh alts hoardin shared items

and also, why would newbs move faster anyway, thats somethin that comes earned by veterancy or by trade (tea), that suggestion is equal to "hey lets make genetically modified babies that will run marathon before they start crawlin"

[Kaya]

People gave negative rep without comments, because in the announcement was asked to post only ideas in the topic. The reason for the negative rep itself is that you ask for things to be removed which you know nothing about.

First the removing of Land loyalty requirements from items. What do you think would happen if everyone is able to get any gathering resource they want? Most of the resources would be depleted permanently. Just look at the herbs if you don't believe me, baskets are there for all to use, at least those able to get into Loreroot. (Which is possible even without defeating the guards, it's up to you to find out how)

Also the high AP cost in the tribunal as well as viscosity have their reasons. Even veterans are at least slowed down considerably by the AP in the east. Why? Mostly because of similar reasons to why the land guards are there for Loreroot.

I didn't neg rep you either, because suggestions of new players often are the most valuable and shouldn't be discouraged, but at the same time when suggesting something you know little about you shouldn't be surprised when people don't like it, that usually means you need to dive into it some deeper first.

[Tom Pouce]

Hi
[b] [url="../../user/2272-liberty4life/"]Liberty4life[/url][/b]

Lets talk about view points

ok one can see it viewing with the veterant view, he as play a long time, as play many alts, know the game fully in mechanic and locations and combats, as access to many powerfull and wealty friends and his new alt can have access to tools, gift of powerfull creatures not avalable , and shop or anniversary creatures .... he also as access to powerups (tea) and spells (that tele everywhere) ... he as earn that with time , he as pay his dues

But that veterant may forget things like
- when he started, there was no viscosity ....
- when he started he was even foot, as most tools came in being as the play along and there was not loyalty requirement at that time
- there was not limitation on mp3 for creature levels, or experience cap
- when he started, alt where encourage , and without any limitations, one could boost his alt any way he wanted, make tens of them, to get free credit, put token, age creatures, make win on them ...

so looking at all those goodies that where avalable to him as he stated and played ... seem to me he was on "steroid" compare to the limitations of new players , and now those limitations dont bother him, he as tools, wealth, powerfull friends, and spells plus his knowledge of the game

Compare the actual life of a new players

- explore or quest : high viscosity without boosters
- no tools to get wealth
- restriction on alt now, so he cant make same trics of boosting like the old one did

...

the question one veterant should ask himself is yes i have things i earn it but
if i was a new player starting now ... what fun would it be? what would be my options?

you had problems, with stat grinding, alt abuse to boost with creatures ganing wealth and oarding tools, solutions to that is good, but is the remedy worst long time than the problems, or is it possible to balance remedies to still making it an interesting game for new players?

[Chewett]

i neg repped you, i didnt like the idea simply

Im voting using the rep, all the ideas i liked i +repped and the ones i didnt i -repped

[Burns]

Wow, i'm tempted to give that negative rep now...
Almost nothing of the things you say about vets is true.

When we were young, Golemus was locked, Necro was halfway locked, and the maze and east lands didn't exist. Most of the bits that are viscous now were not accessible then.
Tools were implemented before shared was, so the tools were actually in possession of one person, who was lucky enough to get it. No way you could get one to use yourself, pay the monopoly price or have no resources. Shared is by far the better shot for newbies, they just need to get into a land.
Levels were not restricted, yes, but the heat limits were increased several times since our time. Most creatures you can't upgrade nowadays you practically couldn't reach back then, either.
And alts were at no point in time open to abuse, ever. Whenever somebody was caught doing really bad stuff, they got punished severely.

[Tom Pouce]

Hi

samon

Yes i was putoff by the negative rep, would i had nonly remain at 0 it would have not bother me

Just seeing that neg rep made me think that one voice asking to making life for actual newby more interesting was missing

I agree, my suggestions maybe not the best , but i still think that veterant should think more of new players, and use there knowledge of the game and the problems it as encounter to find ways of making the game more friendly to new players

My constat reading forum, is that if one took picture of what is now and what was say 2 years earlier is quite different
some game change where made to solve probably problems
but i have the opinion that some of those change , change the life of a new players for the worst (if you add up all those) ... i was not there i may be mistaken overall, but its what i perceive

so my voice is not give me all, not remake MD, but please try to find ways to make MD more interesting for starting new players

[Liberty4life]

well then, back then, there was no inventory items, no coins, i remember times when there was no wps, rather rpc logs were instead, when there was mainland, underground and mda, some folks in here remember even when there was no loreroot, so tell me if world was that small back then, there would be no use of visc no?

also now tools have loyalty req so yeah we need that too to use them, no to say that land loyalty was implemented AFTER tools got implemented so yoar argument in here is invalid, i am vet, you know mine history with mb land? well i have no mb loyalty

back then there was no limitation for mp3 creats cuz folks didnt holded level, once they were capped they went up, once folks realized that they can stay at mp3 with nice creats and woop others ass, that limitation was put in place, and those that had those creats on mp3 were forced to move up, since those creats couldnt be used anymore at mp3

there was ALWAYS xp cap

yeah alts were encouraged but those that abused them in ways ya describe got banned, that was never allowed

exploration is meant to be slow, so is walkin, shadowseeker is golden chicken when it comes to wealth, he got up there without tools, later tools boosted him up even further, ask around and ya will see that tools aint only money makers around

oh and fyi i plan to start from scratch this game with nothin, already have everythin planned out just no time and tell ya i see i would do just nicely, i would do same thing i did back then, no difference, same money donations to boost me up a bit, gonna save some time since i already know things, so it would be even easier for me, only problems are lack of time and no joy in doin things ya already know how and what to do

[Tom Pouce]

Hi

Burns

Ok you correct me

I had some of the things wrong, ...

But if you ask where i got those things wrongs? I got it asking questions and reading the forum ...

so please bad rep the "spolier things that make some not talk of things"
and what was written in this forum since a few years ago

You know me a little, i have an inquisive mind, i have read a good portion of MD forum, i may have misinterpreted ... but then its the impression i got reading and asking and playing

Edited June 4, 2012 by Tom Pouce

[Isabella Finch]

I don't remember if I negative reputationed your idea or not. I may have.

I did not like your idea. Things are depleted enough already, so no I do not think just "anyone" should have access to the tools. I finally got into Loreroot and picked up a basket for the very first time but didn't even use it. I had one available chance as there was ONE herb on my way into the East. I chose to let it grow and guess what? Someone went right behind me and took it. Not an hour after I made a bet with someone that it would happen. And that depleted the herbs in the scene. People are already having trouble with this, so letting just anyone have the tools without earning them first... It is a bad idea. Why? Because people are greedy. Why does a new player who has no idea what is going on need to worry about gaining resources for anyway? If they were truly new and not alts, then they have enough to learn about anyway without adding the need to gain resources right away on top of it.

And the other idea, the filters... I had no idea what you were even talking about with that. I was thinking you meant with language.. but that didn't make sense. I just don't know.

Edit to add because I completely forgot:

Viscosity. One of the biggest things you tend to be told, over and over, is that you must have patience. Is it frustrating? Yes. But is there reasoning to the madness? Yes. I am still a new player even though I finally have over 100 days and I am still learning things. I am still touring the land and learning about it. It literally took me a month to even figure out No man's land. Sometimes I still get a touch lost with the way it back tracks. If I had been given access to everything the moment I signed up, I would have either looked at everything and then got bored and quit because there doesn't seem to be much rping, or I would have been completely overwhelmed and I would have quit. This game is meant to be long term. That is why there is stock in gaining more ap over time to go against the viscosity to slowly work your way into places you had no access to beforehand.

And you mentioned alts too. I have never played a game where abusing it with the use of alts was okay. And if you know all these things about what veterans could and couldn't do when they began, it makes me wonder how long you have been playing and if you are a veteran that was banned at some point and is now wanting to be able to play the way you were able to when the game started. For a new player... You seem to know quite a bit... Just a small observation.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Isabella Finch

[Fenrar]

[quote name='samon' timestamp='1338848836' post='113398']
[b]Making Heads contest a contest[/b][b] again[/b]

As most know for a while now HC hasn't been much of a contest other than for occasionally for first place, though that spot usually is taken from the start as well. Lately it has even become harder not to win if you haven't already than it has to win.

Therefore I have a few suggestions as to how to make HC a little harder:
-Make HC only available to MP4+, as MP3 can't really fight fully yet anyway, or perhaps make it MP5 only.
-Reduce the amount of winners to 3 per category.
-Reduce the amount of HCs to 4 per year, one every 3 months

With this there should at least be some increase in competition in the long run as the amount of competitors gets more concentrated in one place.
[/quote]

No HC on MP3? All right, one less event for us... there is plenty we can do anyway. To be honest, I was working hard to lose those heads at the end, so I can maybe win the next contest... but well, this HC turned out to be not much of a contest. (Thank you Quizok for the long hunt in Phase 1, I enjoyed it very much:).) I am not sure forcing us to MP4 helps. Really. Personally, I am looking for fun.
By the way, the other MP level contests were different, more active, better? I was checking the contest log all the time... I am not sure about the answer.

Do not force us to move on to MP4. Please. Give us time and fun.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Fenrar

[apophys]

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1338847522' post='113393']
Most creatures you can't upgrade nowadays you practically couldn't reach back then, either.
[/quote]

The rest of your post I agree with, but this I very strongly disagree with. I had about a dozen maxed creatures (not aramors, but trees, elems, birds, a water daimon) by the time the mp4 heat limit was increased, and most of the increase I put into my 3 angies, which I grew to one level before max. In mp4. Without any exploits (I don't consider GGG-style training an exploit, and I already had a max elem and at least one max dark archer by the time I discovered it.)

That can't be done anymore.

Edited June 5, 2012 by apophys

[Tom Pouce]

Hi

Isabella

filters? i did not use that word that i remember , maybe you can quote me if i used that word

as for alt and knowing the game, the only way for me to know that game was true the forum reading, true the search founction on top page, true the [url="http://md-archives.com"]http://md-archives.com[/url], true the [url="http://magicduel.wikia.com"]http://magicduel.wikia.com[/url], reading old player personnal page, even king manu page, reading some advanture log, going true some of the annoncements, true asking questions ... not being an alt of an old player

I learned doing the prince quest (i done it all, but was not award as he did ask additionnal questions above the quest required ... maybe at one time ill message him with his additionnal requirements) , doing Burns excellent first and second quest

thats what i was doing in MD, that and trying to find friends, help other new players, trying to get some player of other game to try this one ...

I did it exploring MD, i have visit all location in golemus, loreroot,MDA, maze (complete map) ,underground, marinbell that are not restricted ...

I found gazebo of equilibrium code remaining active aftrer Mur purge

I use some time solving puzzel of Fyr (excellents)

I have participate in some competition and quest as i find them avalable,and think i have a chance to do them

I have explore maybe only 70% of tribunal, the high viscosity is killing me ... and without tribunal loyalty ... or many tea cups ...

I have visit necrovion, the part that is not restricted

what have you done except making bad riddle .. riddle of old that you completely ruin in making it your own so they become not logically solvable? and not accepting logical possible altenative answers? or repying that you are in love?


whoa thats an exploit yu have, as month to solve no mans land its an exploit

Maybe instead i should have rp that i am in love ....

Edited June 5, 2012 by Tom Pouce

[Isabella Finch]

[quote name='Tom Pouce' timestamp='1338855730' post='113405']


what have you done except making bad riddle .. riddle of old that you completely ruin in making it your own so they become not logically solvable? and not accepting logical possible altenative answers? or repying that you are in love?


whoa thats an exploit as month to solve no mans land its an exploit
[/quote]

I gave you that riddle and you didn't even try to think it over. You answered in five seconds and it was the wrong answer. Eon was given the same exact riddle and got it right. So how was that unsolvable? Every one of my riddles I gave out was answered by someone. And the love part... I have no idea what you are talking about. I was the last person pulled into the dominion tunnel event, I had less time than most of the others as I did not volunteer for it. I had no idea it was even taking place. I was asked to do it. And I did it to gain citizenship into the East Lands. Because I had so little time to prepare, I did riddles. And because I was so new to the game, I chose not to make them game related. Mur had told us before hand that they did not have to be game related, as long as they were not cultural. I could have given you an agebraic equation if I wanted to. I didn't.

What have I done in the game? I have met people. Isabella has made some friends, made some enemies, traveled much of the lands, has trained and is learning more about the game as it becomes available to her. How does my game experience matter in the fact that I think tools should not be sharable with everyone and that you shouldn't be able to explore everywhere the moment you sign up?

And what are you calling an exploit exactly? The fact that it took me longer than the average person to understand the map and how to get places within No man's land? How is that exploiting anything?

[Tom Pouce]

Isabella

My post was relate not for the thread subject, but a direct answer to your accusations that i am an alt of an old player

as for the riddle the original one is not talking about teleportation isnt it?

its an old riddle that was made before sf and portable phone ...

and the answer i told was fullfilling the riddle, ... it was just not your answer

and the remark about what an exploit one month ... did you not realise that i was mocking (or laugting ) at you? you did seem to think that one player need to take one month to explore no mans land and be happy ... that it should be the way to do it.

as for the love part ... i have seen for one month in each location you have been that you where rping that you where in love with someone, holding hands ...
I tought it was your only fun in this game

Edited June 5, 2012 by Tom Pouce

[Isabella Finch]

Alright.

[awiiya]

BFH - to make this discussion more concrete, which filters would you like to relax? Story mode?

It might be the case that story mode should be rewritten or changed. It's... tangential to the point of absurdity at the moment.

It could eve be rewritten with real MD history. Is that a project the council would be interested in?

Awi

[BFH]

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1338859104' post='113414']
BFH - to make this discussion more concrete, which filters would you like to relax? Story mode?

It might be the case that story mode should be rewritten or changed. It's... tangential to the point of absurdity at the moment.

It could eve be rewritten with real MD history. Is that a project the council would be interested in?

Awi
[/quote]

Tutorial ones that covers part of story. I did not replied fully because of spoilers. Your answer was sent by pm.

In terms of numbers (players) yes it's something council and i guess most of us the players would be interested in.

[BFH]

[quote name='Tom Pouce' timestamp='1338842534' post='113385']
[color=#0000ff]Split from the Council Topic [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/12400-development-focus/"]http://magicduel.inv...elopment-focus/[/url][/color]
[color=#0000cd]~Burns[/color]

Comments to you guys

I dont understand your attitude

You negative rep suggestions to make life easier or more interesting to new players ... You want to only remain essentially with the actual population of players?

You negative rep suggestion to put tools in hand of new players, you dont want them to see or learn the part of the game of using tools, making some wealth?
You want it to remain only in hands of a few? and then you complain that new players think only of fighting not trying the other game possibilities.

You negative rep suggestion to lower soemewhat or give possibility to lower negative impact of viscosity on new players. You dont want new players? you dont want new players that will try to quest, and explore MD?

I have try to get in MD some players i have know in another online game. I am talking of players that have play the same game for over 3 years (so dont talk about kids that want only to pow pow) (and that game is a sand box where one make its own way, and survive or build not a kiddy game only) of them not one remain here.

I dont know but i think this community need to think a little in that line ..

Its just my opinion ...

Remark:
only 3 posts negative rep
BFH post saying MD need new players
and my 2 posts ..
[/quote]

Don't worry about negative reputation. It is the way that players have to vote. Usually the negative part start balancing and gets to a 0 value.

The negative part doesn't mean we don't care about the ideas shared or that players don't care about them. All ideas are important. Think or reputation as the way to define priority. I'm pretty sure that council reads them all and gets to notice the ideas mentioned to try working them out.

So yes keep giving ideas

[Kaya]

[quote name='Fenrar' timestamp='1338853259' post='113402']
No HC on MP3? All right, one less event for us... there is plenty we can do anyway. To be honest, I was working hard to lose those heads at the end, so I can maybe win the next contest... but well, this HC turned out to be not much of a contest. (Thank you Quizok for the long hunt in Phase 1, I enjoyed it very much:).) I am not sure forcing us to MP4 helps. Really. Personally, I am looking for fun.
By the way, the other MP level contests were different, more active, better? I was checking the contest log all the time... I am not sure about the answer.

Do not force us to move on to MP4. Please. Give us time and fun.
[/quote]
There are several reasons I think HC should be MP4+, the main one being that there just are to few participants to keep it interesting, if you win on MP3 you can't win again. When you don't allow MP3 to participate there will be 4 more possible participants for the next contest.

Furthermore because of the MP requirements only a very select group of creatures is available to MP3. Most creature abilities only get available at MP4 or even 5. In my opinion MP3 fighting is to limited for HC.

To finish this up MP3 is a stage to learn the basics. If you feel like you're ready for HC you're also ready for MP4

That's why I think HC shouldn't be available to MP3, but the main point was that HC needs to be worked on to make it more than just "the one who was unable to avoid the most score"

[stavaroiu]

[quote]A very easy and minor change, but one that would help me a lot, and I'm sure others as well:

Option on the options page to mute all MD sounds.[/quote]

I`m sorry but i really have to ask why people don't like this idea? Sure i like of the other ideas and find them interesting but this is the ONLY one i REALLY care about and ABSOLUTELY want to see it happen!!!

I`m gonna be direct here, i utterly detest the sound of someone attacking me! It plays a very important part for me as to why i spend most of my time at fenths press, where there is a sanctuary and i don't have to hear that irritating, disgusting, repulsive, loathsome sound.

Its not at the level of annoying or uncomfortable anymore. I cant stand that sound, i simply cant, it pains me to hear.

Especially after going idle in a non-sanctuary place, that sound as if tormenting me keeps on repeating because of that eternal bug.

Its gotten to the point that i mute all sounds from my computer when i spend my time in non-sanctuary places, and i usually very much like to hear music when i play.

I like this game, and i also like some of the ideas from the development focus. But this idea, for me at least, represents a very big improvement in game play and as stated above i would really like to see it happen.

[Chewett]

[quote name='stavaroiu' timestamp='1338897857' post='113456']
I`m sorry but i really have to ask why people don't like this idea? Sure i like of the other ideas and find them interesting but this is the ONLY one i REALLY care about and ABSOLUTELY want to see it happen!!!

I`m gonna be direct here, i utterly detest the sound of someone attacking me! It plays a very important part for me as to why i spend most of my time at fenths press, where there is a sanctuary and i don't have to hear that irritating, disgusting, repulsive, loathsome sound.

Its not at the level of annoying or uncomfortable anymore. I cant stand that sound, i simply cant, it pains me to hear.

Especially after going idle in a non-sanctuary place, that sound as if tormenting me keeps on repeating because of that eternal bug.

Its gotten to the point that i mute all sounds from my computer when i spend my time in non-sanctuary places, and i usually very much like to hear music when i play.

I like this game, and i also like some of the ideas from the development focus. But this idea, for me at least, represents a very big improvement in game play and as stated above i would really like to see it happen.
[/quote]

Well, thats your opinon.

My opinion is that other things are much more important. so i down voted you quite simply. Its nothing personal...

[Maebius]

I would agree that Story Mode would be one of the better things to "fix" for new people.
So many bugs and odd things there, plus the Story itself seems, as said before, on a Tangent to the rest of the realm in some sections.
Granted, this is probably also the LARGEST and most intensive thing to get through.

With that in mind, I think Citizenship is the second most important aspect to get resolved. Even if the tools were just given to one person randomly, that would still allow Activity in some way, beyond joining Alliances, which are in a somewhat unbalanced state of flux lately. Shared tools are linked to Land Loyalty now, and I have not seen too many shared tools being given to "new players", who aren't citizens, probably because they aren't citizens. Likewise, allowing some form of basic Citizenship would give newer players a reason to look into what the lands are themselves, rather than simply stay with no homeland because the Allaince/Guild situation may put them off a bit.

Viscosity is irritating perhaps to new folks, but it's a fact of hte realm and is yet one morething to "finally get through" in cases like the MDA gates and such. Consider it a mini-quest/challenge of sorts, to visit more places. It reenforces the "patience" aspect of the realm. This is good.

Edited June 5, 2012 by Maebius

[Fenrar]

[quote name='samon' timestamp='1338896205' post='113455']
There are several reasons I think HC should be MP4+, the main one being that there just are to few participants to keep it interesting, if you win on MP3 you can't win again. When you don't allow MP3 to participate there will be 4 more possible participants for the next contest.

Furthermore because of the MP requirements only a very select group of creatures is available to MP3. Most creature abilities only get available at MP4 or even 5. In my opinion MP3 fighting is to limited for HC.

To finish this up MP3 is a stage to learn the basics. If you feel like you're ready for HC you're also ready for MP4

That's why I think HC shouldn't be available to MP3, but the main point was that HC needs to be worked on to make it more than just "the one who was unable to avoid the most score"
[/quote]

Thank you for your explanation, but I do not share your opinion.

1. There are smaller differences here (at MP3), most fights are challenging, because of the limited selection of limited crits. No tokens, no 5 year old superrarecrits, no maxed player stats. Just hunting and hiding... it is fun to get know your opponent, your environment, learn how to use viscosity... and find new friends deep down in the dark corridors, when you both out of APs, and stuck. Sending messages back and forth while constantly checking the timer when the new cycle comes... because your opponent-friend is just beside you, at the next spot. It is not the War of Tea. These are the best moments in MD so far.
2. There is less chance to win at MP4 with my current state. So it would look like the same, running away from heat and heads to compete later.
3. No matter which stage we fight, we do it once.
4. The ones who _could_ compete were not interested at MP4 or MP5 either. Some people won by spending too much time in idle mode... and when logging in: wow! surprise... I won a trophy!

Leave it as it is imho, people will decide if they want to go for the win or not. The game will not be better because of one more MP4. There is one less MP3 that way. And how could the newbies train and melt into the realm? There are times when MDP is empty, only the "bots" are there (thank you guys for this, it is nice to have them).

[Udgard]

I'd agree that citizenship is one of the most important thing to finish right now. With the recent features being heavily tied to it (viscosity & land loyalty, shared item loyalty requirement), focusing on this would bring positive effects to the other issues as well. If citizenship is fixed, newer players can actually get to play with items and move around easier in their homelands, giving them plenty of things to play with before eventually moving on to more restricted areas as they gain more AP from active days.