MD Tutorial Reconstruction

[vampir]

Grido and BFH taking them out for a measure contest with the rest being observers? My vote goes for BFH, who out of unknown motivation wishes to actually make positive change and is asking for help. I'll revoke that if his motives show as bad to me. And Chewett waving fists or whatever bodypart against an idea to try and better something that is not good (enough)? Good grace people, remember that one thing about MD and mirrors? Even everybody leaves there still can remain ugly memories upon mirrors.
Tone it down a bit guys, MD is not yours afterall.

With <this and that problem> , pretty much most of the things that adorn the site's main page do not stand. I don't have to log in to see that "player-created quests!" count 2 or 3 at most. Purely from perspective of a new player as i can clearly remember my first time here (and second first time after a year), npcs are barely existant, there is too much difference in power between even MP3 players, fewer people immersed, list is big and pointless to discuss here, ....patience is required at odd milestones. If anybody cares to keep a count, over the years most of my "gaming buddies"/relatives (more than 30) were brought here by me. Only single one made it to 25ActiveDays even by just logging in for credits. Never spent them though. If it doesn't work why not improve it instead of bitching about the change (as many times so far, and then eventually accepting it)?

As a side note, i continue to amuze myself with considering random people with over 3 active days It is amazing, given that game itself has so little to offer, yet so much

I have noticed something i haven't until now. Seems to me some mysterious part about MD (that keeps lessening with time) needs to stay mysterious. It would then be good to hear at least the boundaries for idea playground - preferably coming from someone with most authority and power such as Mur or Rendril. Then with cool heads perhaps changes would be done rapidly with less of this posting and wasting time. I see there are enough people [b]willing[/b] to administer the effort.

I remembered time when due to some bug after a change, all new players were forced to a set of 3 principles upon creation. At first i thought it was intentional, then after reporting Mur went crazy fast to change it. The game (uniqueness of each Character) is clearly about reflecting the choices, and although i do not condone how limiting that can be, i respect it as all should do and as i believe it should be made possible even on a deeper level. Thus no forcing, unless that is one of the hush-hush things that still have to be there?

In short, here's a list:

- Make free roam from entering the game. Add activity sec/min/hour/day requirement for where you need that "patience check". Hell, assign requirements like that to just about anything. Fun! And it makes for that nice feeling of [b]achieving a milestone[/b].

- Add more people around. What happened with AI? Don't tell me its implemented, would be really bad news. Address the "lag" with optional on/off but not from the MDShop perhaps? Oh, chat messages have nearly doubled in visibility time (among other things), so speak less about server flow

- I really like the idea of pop-up helpful tips, perhaps animated pointing arrows/lightning etc. Options>Tooltips>[on/off]?

- Don't know if its too much, but assigning music as background to all scenes, or perhaps just a link to it? Could add a dimension, like some wardrums before tutorial fights? While there, Options>Sounds>annoying chat beep [on/off]?

- Principles introduction, written by a several people, consolidated together to reflect [b]the real[/b][b] ingame weight[/b]? To be honest, not sure if principle choices affect tokens/sac value/etc randomly or they are thought out, but someone does. Some pointers could be added visibly to new Characters, preferrably in a fashion that does not make them avoided or easily overlooked?

- MP4 introduces tokens. And perhaps a random avatar, which is cool and motivating people to move up?

- MP5, for a grand finalle , give them a story % bonuses too! Why not? Stay true to that somewhat generic misleading tip: "With enough blah, new players can overcome experienced ones."

- Ah, just make MagicDuel real fun for players again? I'm so done.

[Muratus del Mur]

i will reply just to a couple of things now. At the time that tutorial was planned, md had no community, i had no way to predict the way the actual gameplay will be. Now that tutorial is obsolete, the filters are good as concept but for an other era so to speak..obsolete.

the changes that need to be done are massive..sadly. There is something in plan for a feature to allow multiple tags, that will lead to the possibility to have own as well as automated tags (an other feature, currently missing). automated tags mean that you can chose a path by the actions you do and it can be easily integrated with a new hierarchy system.

the technical changes to achieve this are far more simple than any other change i can think of.

With a social hierarchy given by automated tags, the player sees the possibilities ahead and this will act as an atractor to make him want to go deeper.

The current story is an attractor, powerful one, but currently it points in a wrong direction because it ends suddenly and without any connection with how md is now. Moving storymode a few steps ahead as an optional side quest is in my opinion needed.


Regarding the 'filters'...
it is a market problem. players are now educated to find highly adictive attractors in games, such as "xp points to achieve next level" , "grinding", "distribution of skill points/upgrades" etc. You can't fight these concepts from the start, and i also don't want to follow them...so here is the main problem.

i believe, in concept, md can start with a highly addictive gameplay, any move/click you do increases some points base, why not the current heat concept with a twist. these points will advance you on a branched system of tags, so you will see that if you do that you could reach there or there. Branched evolution of your character is within md concepts. Seeing these levels ahead, the new player will not think anymore that the game is just what he first sees and will want to go deeper. This eliminates the need of a mp2 stage to start with.

The filters can and should be added at a later point. Lets say after the activity days reach 100 or 200.

anyway, i could go on and on about this , but over the past years i tried to find a way to plan this in a way that won't require too many changes. thats why i think branched character evolution, multiple and automaded tags, moving story mode as an optional side quest, are the main targets.

[BFH]

I'll be working with including Mur's concepts on the tutorial plan then we develop the plan as community.

I can;t grant this will be done fast (very busy this week). I grant It will be done.

[Plix Plox]

If you're wondering why the retention of new players are abysmally low, it is not just because of the confusing tutorial, but I think it is largely because of the abysmally high AP cost to get into other lands. Generally speaking, a player will soon grow disinterested if they discover that they will possibly need to play this game for more than 200+ days just to get into the MDA. It doesn't help that viscosity is perpetually around +40 because not many players visit these high AP lands, which adds to the high AP cost problem.

Not that i'm grumbling and picking at this, but I'm just suggesting and pointing out that this is a possible or large contribution to the reason why new players aren't staying. This is just some constructive criticism. I hope you guys don't take it the wrong way ><

Edited August 28, 2012 by kellox

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='kellox' timestamp='1346156208' post='121180']
If you're wondering why the retention of new players are abysmally low, it is not just because of the confusing tutorial, but I think it is largely because of the abysmally high AP cost to get into other lands. Generally speaking, a player will soon grow disinterested if they discover that they will possibly need to play this game for more than 200+ days just to get into the MDA. It doesn't help that viscosity is perpetually around +40 because not many players visit these high AP lands, which adds to the high AP cost problem.

Not that i'm grumbling and picking at this, but I'm just suggesting and pointing out that this is a possible or large contribution to the reason why new players aren't staying. This is just some constructive criticism. I hope you guys don't take it the wrong way ><
[/quote]

Yes, definitely agreed. Many players have been asking me (I tend to spend time in the paper cabin and along the noob route XD) how to reduce viscosity, and are disappointed when they can't get to some areas, for eg: to get their papers from the MDA.

[Maebius]

Papers are probably the main thing I am asked about, by new RP-minded folks.
combat training and "how do I get past those gates or solve the Berserker's thing" is the second most frustration I hear.

[BFH]

Please post the problems you see and a possible solution for them Many brains think better than one

[Pipstickz]

Shared items that LHOs can get and give to new players that let them move with lower AP cost, maybe 20 per step if visc is higher than that.

Organize a group of high-AP people to move through places and lower viscosity every once in a while, and then trips to the Archives can be scheduled.

[Tom Pouce]

[u][b]If one want to give paper easier to new players that want to RP[/b][/u]

- [b]give paper "Comments of self" if they complete the story[/b]

that will meet there needs for RP, and still give them a reason to go get the others papers in MDA later

Note: when i was new, no one was even wanting to tel me where to get my papers
execept "you will find it eventually "

Note: dont rely on like someone suggested to organise trips to lower viscosity

if you want them with some paper give them, trying to relie on trips,... is really not for all, first it need to be some trip , secound you need to be in right hours ...

[u][b]If one want to lower problem of viscosity trap for new players[/b][/u]

- [b]just lower viscosity in "no mans land" to whatever number you want[/b]

dont rely as suggested, on some community tool that LFO can give or not
first its an additionnal burden for LFO, and then youll need to be a lucky one that get it, ....

[u][b]if one want to make MD more friendly[/b][/u]

-[b]redefine what is spolier and not [u], make an official definition that is more relax [/u][/b]so when newby ask he get some meaningfull answer on game mechanic, and on some commun knowledge of the main features in DM

and [b]please make it clear and easy to understand[/b], not in the kind of MUR postings (show of force 1,2,3 .. and others) its so obscure that some strict use it to say everything that a player dont find by himself is a spolier

[u][b]if one want to make MD more friendly lower viscosity everywhere in MD[/b][/u]

Edited August 28, 2012 by Tom Pouce

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='BFH' timestamp='1346183226' post='121196']
Please post the problems you see and a possible solution for them Many brains think better than one
[/quote]

Problem: Viscosity!

Solution: Remove it! Why was it introduced in the first place? If viscosity is removed, there will be no problems for RP-minded people either cause they can get their papers more easily. Plus, most people in general dislike viscosity.

Just yesterday, a guy came up to me and complained that he couldn't gain access to the MDA because of viscosity . . .


P.S: Viscosity at MDA gates is almost always above +32 so if anyone is thinking that it can help new players when it is -80, then just don't say it

Edited August 29, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Burns]

[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10188-viscosity-reasons-effects-and-intentions/"]http://magicduel.inv...and-intentions/[/url]

Other than that, if you feel like ranting about viscosity, you're neither the first nor the last, try that thread to see what we thought back then (note, thread died when Mur made the announcement in my first link): [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9999-viscosity-thread/"]http://magicduel.inv...ad/[/url]

Edited August 29, 2012 by Burns
dug up my ranting thread, too

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1346233872' post='121223']
[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10188-viscosity-reasons-effects-and-intentions/"]http://magicduel.inv...and-intentions/[/url]

Other than that, if you feel like ranting about viscosity, you're neither the first nor the last, try that thread to see what we thought back then (note, thread died when Mur made the announcement in my first link): [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9999-viscosity-thread/"]http://magicduel.inv...ad/[/url]
[/quote]

After reading those, all I can say is that if viscosity can't be removed, there should be regular LHO runs to keep the viscosity down at the MDA gates.

[Pipstickz]

I would suggest asking Dimensional Shifters before asking LHOs, as the Cabin is empty often enough already, while DS have MDA days so they can walk with little cost.

[Liberty4life]

or maybe lower mda gates base ap cost instead of ranting about visc

[february]

Bring back the fun in mp3

[Grido]

[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1346236925' post='121225']
After reading those, all I can say is that if viscosity can't be removed, there should be regular LHO runs to keep the viscosity down at the MDA gates.
[/quote]That's not going to happen.
[quote name='Liberty4life' timestamp='1346239534' post='121227']
or maybe lower mda gates base ap cost instead of ranting about visc
[/quote]This idea works for me.

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='february' timestamp='1346248055' post='121228']
Bring back the fun in mp3
[/quote]

From what I've heard, MP3 is meant to be a learning stage, and just that. So I would say that, all in all, decisions to not allow MP3's to join alliances, as well as removing HC for MP3's, were good ones. MP3's are simply just not meant to compete
If you want to do all those "fun" things, then just advance! A simple as that

Oh, and your post is sorta irrelevant here too, cause this is just the tutorial discussion XD

Edited August 29, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Tom Pouce]

about viscosity

Muratus del Mur post 77 of this thread , is saying that changes are in order, that :
"i believe, in concept, md can start with a highly addictive gameplay.."

its maybe a new say than the thread that Burns refer: [url="http://magicduel.inv...and-intentions/"]http://magicduel.inv...and-intentions/[/url]
that thread date of July 2011

maybe lowering viscosity for no mans land is in order
to remove or really lower viscosity traps for newbyes, that are mainly at first going only in nomansland anyway
(mains travels routes are ok now, but newby can be trap at forge, in front of gate gridge of age ... and few others places in no mans land, that become traps no making good impression to newbyes ... )

and if one want to make MD more friendly in general, maybe a small lowering in some other selected land can be consider

and doing so would not be even agains Mur posting of July 2011, as it can be seen as not removing viscosity as a concept, but only an ajustement of its value . concidering new priorities

Edited August 29, 2012 by Tom Pouce

[DARK DEMON]

Yes, maybe the AP cost of MDA gates could be reduced (as Libby said) to, say, 140 AP? So even if the visc was +32 or above, going as a small group or just voting could get a newbie in . . .

And I agree with Tom . . . as far as No Man's Land is concerned, viscosity there is always below 0, so it shouldn't be a problem for newbies.

Edited August 29, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

Or maybe noobs under 30 days (or 42 ) can ignore viscosity and after that day, the visc will gradually increase.

[vampir]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1346272955' post='121246']
Or maybe noobs under 30 days (or 42 ) can ignore viscosity and after that day, the visc will gradually increase.
[/quote]

Not good. Many people come here only sparingly but for really long periods of time. It would be wise to allow them to enjoy those major updates/Changes they read about in the Announcement Box.

Speaking of which, any ideas on how the NEW tutorial and optional story mode will reflect upon old characters and/or those that have passed current version of tutorial/story mode/mp4-5 etc?

Edited August 29, 2012 by vampir

[dst]

The viscosity will NOT be thrown to the garbage can so the only option we have right now it to try and nerf it or re-configure it. So I suggest instead of whining, to come up with a solution.

The new tutorial should not affect character that have already pass it. Why would it?

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1346272955' post='121246']
Or maybe noobs under 30 days (or 42 ) can ignore viscosity and after that day, the visc will gradually increase.
[/quote]

Eh . . . why 42?

[vampir]

To dst:

Re-read and discover, i asked about the whole new batch of changes, if someone knows and is willing to share. If that was such an off-topic then i apologize. "Automated tag hierarchy" in any form will work for older players, story mode after an AD requirement might not and certainly that new Tutorial will not for which older characters will not have much interest in. Aside from that, i like dogs not cats, alley or househeld.

About viscosity: Form parties [b]now[/b] to go around lowering it for eventual new players. Reduce its base cost eventually all across the land that belongs to none and lower MDA gate to something reasonable (60-100) if it doesn't bother anyone (people were encouraged to get at least the papers and "express"). Then again, how many players have quitted due to 2 regeneration timer worth of wait to leave NML viscosity "trap", compared to other factors?

What about the new Tutorial? Is that topic closed? Someone _is_ working on it obviously. Perhaps activly sending PM to new players can be more lucrative then typing stuff in chatbox for them to hear that annoying 'bing!". Not many bother to scroll down the screen to see text area anyways.

[Muratus del Mur]

suggestion

if the new 'tutorial' will allow free roam in the beginning of the game, why not do it as a sort of activity to gather lets say 4 player groups to keep viscosity low on a certain path. that way new players do their first 'group' activity and learn a bit about viscosity. Jumping in directly into a communication based gameplay is dangerous, but is also very entertaining and could act also as a filter. Making it totally optional will keep it as an side filter and not a main one so it wont scare away new players.

something else. what if lho get ability to give one sort of paper to someone, or ability to drag new players around, or give them ap and escort them to the papers, then bring them back. Its important to bring them back so they wont remain scatered across the map. It will also make this look as a favor they get from the lho, but if they try alone they need to pass AD , ap etc

[b]In the first days of md i was the one to escort each player step by step through the game, and some of those players are still around You need to think that even if each lho guides one player that stays because of this 'attention', md will grow a lot with quality players. The current copy pasted activity of lho is not what i had in mind for lho (but of course its something better than nothing). [/b]