What's a girl to do?

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Here's the deal.

When I created my role and earned the dream weaving ability from Mur, he made it pretty damn clear that dreams are private places (not _truly_ private of course, but private as in MD realm player experience-wise). And for good reason, what one says and experiences in a dream is vulnerable because of how primal, utterly visceral, and emotionally raw the content often is . Now, many of you have wondered about my absence for the past few months - here's one of the reasons why.

Dreams are not private in MD.

Anyone with a high level earfocus spell/stone can effectively recall everything that was said in a dream. Now, I thought only so-called admin roles had this spell, but there are 'regular' players who have it as well. There are people spying on dreams, not occasionally, but almost every time a dream happens in MD. Why? Because they can...

This feels like a huge betrayal (one among a couple) which I have brought to the council. They refuse to do anything about it, or even work with me on it to figure something out.

Now, I'm only interested in being a presence in this realm if players want me there as a dream weaver.

Many of my old roleplaying buddies have already fled MD since the CoE was disbanded by Council, so I want to get any idea if there are other folks who find interest in learning more about night-time dreams in MD.

I hate bringing this to the forum, because I know this kind of thing isn't what MD needs, but, for my sake, I want to gauge how much interest there is and also hear any ideas about how to work on this issue.

Thank you for your time!

MUAH![/font]

Edited November 11, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Chewett]

I was under the impression that you left the game after publically giving all your items and crits away? However this post seems to say otherwise?

You kept posting odd messages in the mood panel saying words to the effect of "im leaving", so im a little confused... You still play MD yes? You still play your role? minus your items relating to your role? Please unconfuse me

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Chewy, that is totally off-topic, but I will answer to that (hey, it's my topic, damnit!) in a short response, cause this girl is hungry and it's suppertime.

I did not leave the game. My giving away of possessions was a symbolic sacrifice. That is all. It was a 'show of force' to send a message to council that this issue needs to be resolved. They refused to work on this with me, and since they are the only active ones who can change it, I felt backed into a corner and left with few options.

I sacced all my creatures, drachs, SWs, tainted angien, etc. all of them, and my coin/items, and my mp6 status in a desperate attempt to get this fixed. Sure, looking back I know it was not a very 'mature' or 'rational' thing to do, but I was feeling desperate.

I have never said "I'm leaving" in mood panel or otherwise. Do you need to get fitted for glasses?! (a sarcastic joke, please don't take it offensively to heart)

I have only fought this so hard because of how near and dear the dream world is to my heart. It does MD's dream world a disservice if any bloke with a high level earfocus spell can spy on it any damn time they please.

I welcome all comments/suggestions, so long as they are [b]constructive[/b].[/font]

Edited November 11, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Alice Rowle]

[b]“A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality.”[/b] ~ John Lennon

Yes, I agree. Dreams should be private. This quote sums it up.

I would also like to talk to you about dreams sometime. Don't really know anything about them in this game.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Alice Rowle

[DARK DEMON]

I support this. Dreams should be private, or else what's the purpose?

I would like to talk to you about dreams sometime

Edited November 11, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[VertuHonagan]

I also agree that dreams should not be able to be viewed by anyone other than the ones involved in the dream, unless the ones involved choose to tell others the dream they had.

[ZenTao]

Tho I do not know the internal workings of your Dream Weaving Phantom Orchid, I still find it a mysterious cloak that veils the realm in an intriguing manner. Dreams are whatever the dreamer makes of them and having an outsider spy on them is not only unrealistic ([i] because when can someone know what you dream other then Phantom Orchid or the Sandman?[/i]) If dreaming was meant to be shared with the world then we would all be sleeping with glass heads and a movie rolling inside, visible to anyone looking. Thank goodness this is not the case! I have had some very very weird dreams even I don't understand much less anyone else. It would be great if there could be some sort of "Off the Record" chat setting. What about having the dream sequence through personal PMs? Again I don't know how The Dream Weaver works, but that's my 2 cents and I would agree that Dreaming is needed and should remain up to the dreamer to disclose.

[Burns]

I must disagree. Reading the first chapter of the AL, Golemus Wizard, it's quite clear to me that dreams are not a private place where people are cut off from the world. MD dreams are a whole world, and not only the ones having the dream and the dreammaster can mess with it, but anyone skilled enough can. And they are not prisons or private chat places as Raven used them in his time. For that we have a prison and a sunny bedroom.

The Golemus wizard was able to take somebody from a dream without consent of the dreamcatcher, and sent somebody there without it, too. The dream realm is another aspect of MD, but most definitely not a private aspect. It might be slightly less known and a little more mystic to the newbies who didn't grow up with Morpheus, but it is not what you wish to make of it. Being the current dreamcatcher, you have the chance to change the dream realm more easily than anyone else, but that needs to be done through the game reality, and not through the council changing mechanics to fit with what you think to be right for the dream world.

[Nimrodel]

Ever heard of people who talk while they dream? I am one of them. Ear focus working that way seems fine to me.
(edit for grammar pish posh)

Edited November 11, 2012 by Nimrodel

[lashtal]

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1352595768' post='125346']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I want to get any idea if there are other folks who find interest in learning more about night-time dreams in MD.[/font]
[/quote]

Having been lucky enough to experience the dream world 3 times, I can say all my dreams have been meaningful journeys and I consider them landmarks of my path in this realm.
Moreover, your Dream Quest act. 1 set the first spark that lead me to write my k-doc, your Dream Quest act. 2 was one of the two inspiration sources for the realization of "a Day of Fear" (ups, I shouldn't have said that!)...

So, count me in. I'm always willing to learn more about dreams and their domain.

lashtal

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Thank you for your well thought-out post Burns. When I developed this role with Mur it was made clear to me that the dream world is supposed to be close to entirely private. (Nothing is truly private in MD, I know)

Now, I must ask: where is the balance? The last 4/4 dreams there were in MD were spied upon by people using earfocus spell. This waters down the experiences of my dreamers when they find out that all their deep dark secrets [/font][font=comic sans ms,cursive]that were just shared were listened to by an outside party. [/font][font=comic sans ms,cursive](I do get into deep, very personal, psychological stuff sometimes - other times I may present a riddle, or I may show someone just a short glimpse of a silent dream world - dreams are often varied and unpredictable, just like me ) [/font]


[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Now Burns, do you think I should just suck it up and take this on my knees? Or do you have any suggestions for me?[/font]

Edited November 11, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Maebius]

Having dreamt in MD myself, but alone, I think the overall idea of hte Dream is very awesome.
As others have pointed out, they are valualbe, in a personal way, and have given me a fresh perspective on some things when I dreamed... and for that reason I like the idea of privacy, as absolute except the Dreamcatcher (& dreamer).

However, I also have a vague unsolidified acceptance that if someone really wants to listen in, using the mechanics of thir spells and available "tools" they spent their Wishes to earn, then that's alright too. That's their choice, and right, and it's only fair, in the larger sense.
I mean, I didn't ask for a clown to come smacking at me with a hammer, in StoryMode, but he did. Our choice is how to react, knowing it will happen when it happens again (if it happens again).

Truly private conversations and inspirations regarding a Dream can still be handled via PMs, or forum conversations, or even email, if Secrecy is required to be absolute. Everything else, is details and flavour, and subject to the larger picture, in my mind.

I do understand the desire to keep them private though, in a general sense. I just agree with both sides of the argument, for different reasons.

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][quote name='Maebius' timestamp='1352646821' post='125384']
However, I also have a vague unsolidified acceptance that if someone really wants to listen in, using the mechanics of thir spells and available "tools" they spent their Wishes to earn, then that's alright too. That's their choice, and right, and it's only fair, in the larger sense.

[/quote][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]A part of the problem is that dst has been using her admin tools (she can see who dreams and when) to know exactly when and who to get people to use earfocus spells on. She does this under the guise of making sure I'm not exploiting my role, but, it's not a periodic checkup on things, but an incessant, relentless one - in other words, she is using her tools to spy and influence in-game play and not for admin purposes (which are not supposed to taint the RP experience).[/font] [font=comic sans ms,cursive]But, my last complaint (mp6 thread) and this one against her went nowhere ,because she is for all intents and purposes tight buddies with council (i.e. grido, the person who character assassinated me with the whole LHO fiasco a while back and STILL hasn't made reparations, as Mur told him to). [/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Without her exploiting her admin tools, then things would feel more legit. and I could deal with protecting my dreamers so someone would actually have to work a little bit to figure out who/when to use an earfocus spell.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I welcome adversaries, but not if the game is rigged.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]I also welcome flowers, warm hugs, and a six inch blade plunged into dst's cold-hearted chest (in-game RP, of course , I respect dst's person more than she will probably ever know).[/font][font=comic sans ms,cursive] Oh yeah, and lots of glitter. [/font]

Edited November 11, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Burns]

I think our understanding of private is too different for me to give you advices

To me, private means that the public doesn't interfere, not that it's utterly impossible for anybody to interfere.
for example, if you have a chat at GoE, i can come and join, that's public. If you chat in a private message, i can't, thus it's private. I still have options to find the contents of said PM, for example by bribing one of the persons involved, but it's impossible for me to join into the conversation.

That's how i see the term private, but this is apparently not what you have in mind when talking about private.

I do agree that the dream should be a place where the dreamer is alone with the weaver, without outside influences, but i do not see the dream as a place cut off from the rest of the game.
If that is the privacy you wish for, you'd need a different scale of dream, in my opinion. the current dream just doesn't fit with this, at least in my opinion.

and as i said before, you have the best chance of any player to reach a higher level of dreaming. if you can't figure it, i surely won't be able to (and i'm actually too busy to try hard, too)

[Kaya]

First I must say I sadly have not yet had the luck to experience a dream in MD and therefore do not know the exact details of how a dream works, but wouldn't it be possible, in case things get too private to even let Dst catch a glimps of it, to have the dream in the Sunny Bedroom? No one should be able to see what happens there, and it does make sense that the more secretive you want it to be the more work you will have to do for it.

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Every single dream I've cast in the past few months has been spied on. It doesn't matter where I am or how 'secretive' I am about it. Now, dst's admin. role gives her the tools to see when a dream happens and who is involved, so she is able to know exactly who/when to cast it on, but it is my understanding that this tool is not to be used to influence in-game play.

Now, if it were an occasional 'visit' or eavesdrop from an outside party, sure, I wouldn't give a damn. But it's every time. When I developed this role with Mur it was crystal clear that only with an inordinate amount of effort could someone decipher or intrude on dreams from the 'outside' of the dreamers mind or the dream weaver. This is important symbolically, which I could rant on for hours about (i.e. dream shadows), and practically - because once the crazy method I use to respond to answers to any of my riddles (which I spend stupid amounts of my limited time creating) 'leaks out' - then what I do becomes predictable and spoiled for other players.

If it were players without admin tools involved, then, great, I would say they figured out how to do something inordinate. I would praise them. But, it is rigged because of how admin tools are coming into play and negatively influencing RP in the realm.[/font]

Edited November 11, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Mallos]

Dreams are very fuzzy to even the dreamer, not to mention for someone who was able to listen in on it.

Perhaps any dream listened to could be under the effects similar to an acoustic obfuscator.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Falronn

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Alright good people, in the spirit of mutual aid and cooperation, I have spoken with some folks and my problem has been resolved.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Mods please close thread.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Thank you and have a nice day! [/font]

[No one]

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1352595768' post='125346']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Dreams are not private in MD.[/font]
[/quote]

That is correct.
Also, what is the purpose of your dreams ? Why are you so afraid of being heard ?

Are you hiding something ... or ... someone ?

From what I've read, this is a campaign against dst.
You also complain about "the council".

As I remember you should thank "the council" for allowing you to keep the job after you thew away your item. You are a bit ungrateful.

As for spying ... you are just annoyed you cannot do it yourself.
[quote]
[b]: [/b][color="#999999"][i]Phantom Orchid failed to cast a spell[/i][/color]
[b]: [/b][color="#FF9900"][b][Spell][/b] [i]Porus acusticus manet[/i][/color]
[/quote]



[font=comic sans ms,cursive]PUAH![/font]

[No one]

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1352679499' post='125402']
[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Alright good people, in the spirit of mutual aid and cooperation, I have spoken with some folks and my problem has been resolved.[/font]
[/quote]
I would really want to know who and what did it do for/to you.

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]How does it feel to want dst?[/font]

[Grido]

Pretty sure No one posted that, not dst - unless my eyes are mucked up.

You brought my name up, briefly, so I want to briefly deny what you said and after that any further discussion you wish about it can be through PM if you wish (to save it being offtopic, you're welcome to open a new thread instead if you want).
[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1352653115' post='125388'][font=comic sans ms,cursive](i.e. grido, the person who character assassinated me with the whole LHO fiasco a while back and STILL hasn't made reparations, as Mur told him to). [/font][/quote]I do believe I made a number of apologies regarding how I publicised that incident, there is little else I can think of to do to make reparations, if you can think of any please let me know (as I have asked of you a few times before as well). The reason for demoting you from LHO was very valid, as was the reason for the year long 'sentence' (for lack of a better word to mind) of not being allowed to be an LHO again - these things will not be altered.


I figured I'd actually reply to the topic at hand whilst I'm at it - but all in all I agree with what Burns has said in previous posts.
[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1352675632' post='125399'][font=comic sans ms,cursive]Every single dream I've cast in the past few months has been spied on. It doesn't matter where I am or how 'secretive' I am about it. Now, dst's admin. role gives her the tools to see when a dream happens and who is involved, so she is able to know exactly who/when to cast it on, but it is my understanding that this tool is not to be used to influence in-game play.

Now, if it were an occasional 'visit' or eavesdrop from an outside party, sure, I wouldn't give a damn. But it's every time. When I developed this role with Mur it was crystal clear that only with an inordinate amount of effort could someone decipher or intrude on dreams from the 'outside' of the dreamers mind or the dream weaver. This is important symbolically, which I could rant on for hours about (i.e. dream shadows), and practically - because once the crazy method I use to respond to answers to any of my riddles (which I spend stupid amounts of my limited time creating) 'leaks out' - then what I do becomes predictable and spoiled for other players.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]If it were players without admin tools involved, then, great, I would say they figured out how to do something inordinate. I would praise them. But, it is rigged because of how admin tools are coming into play and negatively influencing RP in the realm.[/font][/quote]How have dst's actions influenced the gameplay?
OK, so you're annoyed she's using earfocus on the dreams, that's fair enough, but you mention about the methods you reply "leaking out" - does this actually happen? If it doesn't, and it's just dst that knows, then where's the issue? I gotta figure, given your history, you're unlikely to dream her for a riddle.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Grido

[Phantom Orchid]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1352720563' post='125434']
given your history, you're unlikely to dream her for a riddle.
[/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]You obviously don't know me or my role [/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]You or other council have never actually bothered to inquire about it either, except when it suits the interests of you and your [b]bully [/b]friends.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Greedo. I asked for this topic to be closed. If you have something to say or questions for me then shoot me a message, and I'll be more than happy to answer.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]Cheers. Or something.[/font]

[Jubaris]

I know PoE ask this to be closed, but I want to state my opinion.

[quote name='Maebius' timestamp='1352646821' post='125384']
Having dreamt in MD myself, but alone, I think the overall idea of hte Dream is very awesome.
As others have pointed out, they are valualbe, in a personal way, and have given me a fresh perspective on some things when I dreamed... and for that reason I like the idea of privacy, as absolute except the Dreamcatcher (& dreamer).

However, I also have a vague unsolidified acceptance that if someone really wants to listen in, using the mechanics of thir spells and available "tools" they spent their Wishes to earn, then that's alright too. That's their choice, and right, and it's only fair, in the larger sense.
I mean, I didn't ask for a clown to come smacking at me with a hammer, in StoryMode, but he did. Our choice is how to react, knowing it will happen when it happens again (if it happens again).

Truly private conversations and inspirations regarding a Dream can still be handled via PMs, or forum conversations, or even email, if Secrecy is required to be absolute. Everything else, is details and flavour, and subject to the larger picture, in my mind.

I do understand the desire to keep them private though, in a general sense. I just agree with both sides of the argument, for different reasons.
[/quote]

Although I am against someone studying 'private' conversations, I find the attempts legit, that it should be a possibility for it in the game, so I agree with Maebius' statement.
One thing I would like to add though, is that there should be more room for the dreamcatcher to prevent those spying attempts, so it would be a contest of wills and powers in the end. Can those obsfuctators (not sure how they are called, they are public items, they mess up the chat log) be used in dreams?

[Phantom Orchid]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]There is no way for normal player such as myself to protect dreamers' confidence and go up against someone with admin. powers who knows exactly when and exactly who just dreamed - knowing precisely when to cast earfocus spell. And no, unfortunately obfuscators don't work in this situation.[/font]

Edited November 12, 2012 by Phantom Orchid