What do you want me to do about Neg rep?

[Chewett]

I always get asked to "deal with" people who repeatedly neg rep others. However there is only one case that I can properly deal with. Where someone has deliberately gone back over a large number of posts in a period of minutes and neg repped someone. This is where I remove their ability to give reputation.

If someone is just neg repping you a lot, what can I do? What do you expect me to do? They could just say they think your posts are bad and Its then not fair to go "I dont agree, I will remove your ability"

What does the community think I should do in these cases?

[Eagle Eye]

I ask them a reason why they give a lot of negative. If the reason not valid you can warm him

[Rophs]

If a player consistently displays toxic behavior and receives complaints about neg repping and annoying others then he/she should be removed from the community to prevent the toxicity from spreading.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Rophs

[Intrigue]

Potentially, a "list" could be made... repeat offenders with "i just don't like their posts" could be added to a special section of the list (after x amount of complaints), and then, ultimately have their rep ability removed for suspected abuse of the system (after xx amount of complaints). Granted, it's not a foolproof theory, but if someone is causing enough stink to get put on the list, added to the "you've been warned" list, and then still go hog wild with the downvotes, they are essentially acknowledging that what they're doing comes with the risk of having that rep ability removed. May be too much work to effectively govern, I don't know.

[Pipstickz]

Chew and the forum team should only become involved if it can be shown clearly by the victim or a third party that the perpetrator is doing so with no intent other than to decrease the victim's rep score.

 

If you find yourself negative repped by someone repeatedly, think about why they are doing it, ask an uninvolved person for their opinion, or talk to the person directly. If handled well, you can probably figure out why they are doing it, and try to adjust your behavior, or how to present your ideas.

 

Let's not add extra work to Chew's plate.

[lashtal]

I would do absolutely nothing about Neg rep.  ;)

[DARK DEMON]

Basically, why do people complain? Because other people make them uncomfortable, or annoy them, or hurt them, or offend them, or generally give them a hard time

 

It can NOT be said that person X doesnt mean to annoy person Y, and hence person X is innocent.... because person Y IS getting annoyed by person X's actions. And hence person Y complains. And if the community is to be cared about, the complaint must be heard and some action must be taken. Person X must be told to stop doing what person Y complained about, aka given a warning. If person X continues, regardless of warning, just "because I can" or "because I can use rep system any way I like" or some other stupid reason, the ability to give rep would be removed. Of course, the complaint by person Y must be valid as well and give evidence of actual spam not meaningful neg rep in which many others also give neg rep... so that everyone doesnt just start complaining against those they dont like each time they give neg rep.

 

In other words, the rep system cannot be used "any way I like", it has a purpose that must be followed or it will be removed from you.

 

 

P.S: Intrigue's idea is awesome.

Edited September 6, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

If a player consistently displays toxic behavior and receives complaints about neg repping and annoying others then he/she should be removed from the community to prevent the toxicity from spreading.

So you would entirely ban someone from the forum if you dont like their point of view?
 

Potentially, a "list" could be made... repeat offenders with "i just don't like their posts" could be added to a special section of the list (after x amount of complaints), and then, ultimately have their rep ability removed for suspected abuse of the system (after xx amount of complaints). Granted, it's not a foolproof theory, but if someone is causing enough stink to get put on the list, added to the "you've been warned" list, and then still go hog wild with the downvotes, they are essentially acknowledging that what they're doing comes with the risk of having that rep ability removed. May be too much work to effectively govern, I don't know.

The problem is here is that I dont like the idea of myself, or someone else, arbitrarily deciding what is allowed or not. What will happen is each time I will ask the person and they will, from experiance, give a reason of "X's post is stupid becuase Y". At this point you either just accept thats their point of view or you tell them their point of view is wrong, not allowed, and warn them. We then reach Rophs point of "removing those giving rep's based on their viewpoint".
 

Chew and the forum team should only become involved if it can be shown clearly by the victim or a third party that the perpetrator is doing so with no intent other than to decrease the victim's rep score.
 
If you find yourself negative repped by someone repeatedly, think about why they are doing it, ask an uninvolved person for their opinion, or talk to the person directly. If handled well, you can probably figure out why they are doing it, and try to adjust your behavior, or how to present your ideas.

 
This is what people dont do normally, or in all the cases im involved in they just go "well X doesnt like me". There has been recent cases where someone has just gone through the list of posts and neg rep them. We have dealt with that and that was simple to do as it was blatent. Also the person admitted doing it and explained why (because they were upset with the person). Im not saying thats a good reason (or one that will stop you getting punished) but they were honest and I respected that.
 

I would do absolutely nothing about Neg rep.  ;)

An interesting point of view, Again what does it matter in all honesty?
 

Basically, why do people complain? Because other people make them uncomfortable, or annoy them, or hurt them, or offend them, or generally give them a hard time

If we removed everyone that had a complaint against someone else, most of MD would vote me out. If you wanted to do that fine, but I know im very much hated by MD but I have one or two friends here still so I still play. We would effectively remove the community to 0 if we had to remove everyone that once made someone else uncomfortable and I would be the first to go.

It can NOT be said that person X doesnt mean to annoy person Y, and hence person X is innocent.... because person Y IS getting annoyed by person X's actions. And hence person Y complains. And if the community is to be cared about, the complaint must be heard and some action must be taken. Person X must be told to stop doing what person Y complained about, aka given a warning. If person X continues, regardless of warning, just "because I can" or "because I can use rep system any way I like" or some other stupid reason, the ability to give rep would be removed. Of course, the complaint by person Y must be valid as well and give evidence of actual spam not meaningful neg rep in which many others also give neg rep... so that everyone doesnt just start complaining against those they dont like each time they give neg rep.

So if person Y says they are being annoyed by neg repping and person X gives a reason why its valid. What can you do? It all falls down to arbitrarily choosing no?

In other words, the rep system cannot be used "any way I like", it has a purpose that must be followed or it will be removed from you.

As above :)

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I forgot to mention in the original post, if people want to give feedback privately feel free to PM me.

[Aeoshattr]

People do get offended a bit easily, and I sometimes fall into this category too. I have nothing against neg repping, but I do take offense when a post is neg repped and just that. If you disagree with what I say, I would at least like to see your argument. 

 

Of course, I also realise that sometimes an explanation post is completely unnecessary, but I hope I got my point across, even with this caveat.

 

To keep it short: I believe neg repping is alright, as long as it's not done simply to hurt/harass people. The community is small and fairly toxic (IMO) and I don't believe it is the moment to drive people away over petty conflicts (such as upsetting someone by neg repping them on the forum).

 

EDIT: 3 hours of sleep in 24 hours left my grammar significantly handicapped. Corrected most errors, I hope.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Aeoshattr

[Chewett]

We could change the reputation system to positive only

Or make it not shown on profiles, or...

[Eon]

Keep it the way it is

[DARK DEMON]

The issue about neg rep is that it is not just a "number". Its not just limited to personal offense.

 

Anyone new to MD would see the rep system as a basis for judging people, and giving neg rep for unreal reasons and just because I want to and just because its my feature to use any way I like gives wrong impressions and basically controls who are "the good guys" and "the bad guys". This is why it does matter.

 

 

@Chew, I stated: Of course, the complaint by person Y must be valid as well and give evidence of actual spam not meaningful neg rep in which many others also give neg rep... so that everyone doesnt just start complaining against those they dont like each time they give neg rep.

 

If person X does give a valid reason and states an argument as to why s/he disagrees, then of course person X is safe and Y would be forwarded the argument. This is not a matter which can be solved automatically, there must be someone to judge and see which side is correct. The problem, because no one wants to lose friends, is just: who?

 

 

I don't mind rep system being the way it is, but if it is used incorrectly, there has to be something done...

[dst]

Anyone new to MD would see the rep system as a basis for judging people, and giving neg rep for unreal reasons and just because I want to and just because its my feature to use any way I like gives wrong impressions and basically controls who are "the good guys" and "the bad guys". This is why it does matter.

 

 

 

 

Ah, so your problem is that although you consider yourself a good guy you have tons of neg rep (and I will use myself an example as well: I am the bad gal but I have significantly more poz rep than you or than many others considered "good") and that affects your image with noobs. You don't even give them the slight chance of thinking for themselves (which is not a surprising thing coming from your side) .

You think that all are easily influenced like you were. No, you're wrong. The players that are meant to be stay in MD and have an impact will think for themselves. The rest that form opinions based on what just one side says will not matter and will slowly fade away.

[DARK DEMON]

Ah, so your problem is that although you consider yourself a good guy you have tons of neg rep (and I will use myself an example as well: I am the bad gal but I have significantly more poz rep than you or than many others considered "good") and that affects your image with noobs. You don't even give them the slight chance of thinking for themselves (which is not a surprising thing coming from your side) .

You think that all are easily influenced like you were. No, you're wrong. The players that are meant to be stay in MD and have an impact will think for themselves. The rest that form opinions based on what just one side says will not matter and will slowly fade away.

 

Lol, thats YOUR opinion, coming from a 5 year+ vet, thinking everyone's obsessed with their ego just like you are. Your post clearly shows you have no idea how a new guy thinks.

 

In MD the one of the main things I've learned is that first impression will always remain last impression, apart from few exceptions. Sure, for those few exceptions, in time they realize the truth and sooner or later the new guy will see for themselves who is good or not for themselves, so in that case rep becomes very inaccurate. So what's the point of measuring something (i.e rep) which shows very inaccurate results?

 

This was my point. Not everyone is obsessed with their ego, ya know.

Edited September 6, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[dst]

 

So what's the point of measuring something (i.e rep) which shows very inaccurate results?

 

Says the guy who is at the origin of this thread. And the guy that screamed several times that he doesn't care about his forum reputation because it means nothing (actually you're doing even now) but still asks for the rep to be changed.

 

And no, I don't want only pos reputation. I want neg as well. And yes, I want to use it as a weapon against shallow and superficial people.  As for rules, I am sure there is a way to create them quite fairly.

 

Oh just realized: how about we impose a quote of reps/day a player can give? Just a thought...seen it on another forum. Not a big fan but it's a possible solution.

[DARK DEMON]

Says the guy who is at the origin of this thread. And the guy that screamed several times that he doesn't care about his forum reputation because it means nothing (actually you're doing even now) but still asks for the rep to be changed.
 
And no, I don't want only pos reputation. I want neg as well. And yes, I want to use it as a weapon against shallow and superficial people.  As for rules, I am sure there is a way to create them quite fairly.
 
Oh just realized: how about we impose a quote of reps/day a player can give? Just a thought...seen it on another forum. Not a big fan but it's a possible solution.

 
Wont bother replying to the trash above, but the solution you state sounds something good to think about :)
 

but still asks for the rep to be changed

Never did. Just food for thought.

Edited September 6, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

There is a limit, currently 50 i think.

[DARK DEMON]

Actually, thinking more about it... its easily avoidable... one can just neg rep 3 or 4 a day to seem less suspicious rather than all at once.

[Chewett]

The issue about neg rep is that it is not just a "number". Its not just limited to personal offense.
 
Anyone new to MD would see the rep system as a basis for judging people, and giving neg rep for unreal reasons and just because I want to and just because its my feature to use any way I like gives wrong impressions and basically controls who are "the good guys" and "the bad guys". This is why it does matter.
[/quote]

Now you are arbitrarily giving the reputation system some form of usage system. Assuming how people use it is not an argument for how it should be used or changed. We have never stated how it is to be used or not DD.

You can argue how you use it, and how you think others use it. But the basis for your argument cannot be "I think others use it like me and what is happening doesnt fit into how i think it should work"

 

I don't mind rep system being the way it is, but if it is used incorrectly, there has to be something done...
[/quote]

How are people meant to use it? How in your view does it work and such?
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Edited September 6, 2014 by Chewett

[Ary Endleg]

Or make it not shown on profiles, or...

 

This is interesting solution. If that is done, people would stop fishing for rep in order to feed their ego. Focus would be moved from overall personal impression and ego towards the actual quality and importance of post. It also should end this so called rep-abuse because mass neg repping old posts would be meaningless since it wouldn't be shown on profile and people wouldn't purposely neg rep others just because they dislike them (at least not to the current extent) in order to tarnish their image.

 

There's a question regarding this for debate however. Is it important to to have total count to see how much words of individual "weight" in "public" eyes or is it more important for each individual post to be judged separately, without the association of posters past thoughts (or deeds)?

[Chewett]

This is interesting solution. If that is done, people would stop fishing for rep in order to feed their ego. Focus would be moved from overall personal impression and ego towards the actual quality and importance of post. It also should end this so called rep-abuse because mass neg repping old posts would be meaningless since it wouldn't be shown on profile and people wouldn't purposely neg rep others just because they dislike them (at least not to the current extent) in order to tarnish their image.
 
There's a question regarding this for debate however. Is it important to to have total count to see how much words of individual "weight" in "public" eyes or is it more important for each individual post to be judged separately, without the association of posters past thoughts (or deeds)?

I personally dont care what my overall reputation is. Generally people who have more posts have more reputation. Although those are also people more involved in MD and such. e.g. me grido dst (from the top of my head)

I dont see what the use is to display it really.

[DARK DEMON]

@Chew: You tell me. What is the purpose of a reputation system existing and being on display for all to see?

[Chewett]

@Chew: You tell me. What is the purpose of a reputation system existing and being on display for all to see?

Certainly not to judge if someone is a good or bad person.

[DARK DEMON]

Of course, but then why? Tell me a reason, not a "not to" reason. If it is being shown, in bright green and red, on every profile and every post, it does have some important reason doesn't it? What is that?

Edited September 6, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Chewett]

Of course, but then why? Tell me a reason, not a "not to" reason. If it is being shown, in bright green and red, on every profile and every post, it does have some important reason doesn't it? What is that?

On the post, to show the communities like or dislike for a specific post.

On the profile to show a general agreement/disagreement of that persons posts.