No one Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Ann. 3303 - [2015-01-16 07:18:51 - Stage 12] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur Kill and Revive items changes From now on (most) revive and kill items will require gold to function. They can use any item that contains gold, probably most common for this use will be gold coins. Also, these actions will be posted in the global chat notifications, so that the entire realm will know when someone is murdered or revived. Ann. 330 I know there has to be something more to this announcement, but anyway, what do you way about this ? I can only say : AUCH !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARK DEMON Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) The only thing I'm thinking about is, why "most", and not all? Which are the ones that don't require gold? Apart from this, I think realmwide announcements are great. Edited January 16, 2015 by DARK DEMON Ary Endleg and No one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miq Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 One gold coin or item vs 10-20 that Eon asks?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 One gold coin or item vs 10-20 that Eon asks?..... Eon never asked that much. Also he set prices based on the like/dislike grade he had for the victim meaning if he disliked the player more, he'd ask for a smaller price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubaris Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Although it seems to me as a good idea that the kill/revive items get their requirements, I'm interested in the (lack of?) symbolical connection. You have an item that wants to swallow your gold before making a kill/resurrection? dst and Aelis 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I like it. There's a really clear symbolism in it from my perspective. You're asking the wrong question. Z Kyphis the Bard and Aeoshattr 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eara Meraia Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 One gold coin or item vs 10-20 that Eon asks?..... one gold? Is it the sum required for the item to work now? Well you will have to add up this to the usual killing/revival charge of people who are owning those items. (I know some of them did it for free as well, but not all). As for the announcement. I do hope there is more with it, otherwise I don't see any real changes of the situation coming with it. Sacrifising something for killing in general has a lot of symbolism in it and I like that to kill somebody or revive one has to accomplish more than just to press a button. Paying a few coins does not fully fulfil the sacrifice idea in my oppinion, because not many of us (correct me if I am wrong) are too much spiritually bound to our coins, so it doesn't really hurt to lose them. It also doesn't influence balance between killing/revival in the realm, since both actions require gold from now on. It does not require any direct activity from the killer or reviver, which I think is pity. Also this idea interferes a bit with Eons role as an paid assassin (or maybe it is meant to be a compensation, since Eon seems to be inactive aka gone?). To sum up - I like the idea to make killing/revival more complicated, but I do not think that only adding a gold price to it will make any sufficiant difference. Global notification in chat is a truly brilliant idea. Kyphis the Bard, No one and Mallos 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted January 16, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 A coin for the ferryman Mallos, Assira the Black, Aeoshattr and 3 others 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Indeed there is a lot of symbolism and from so many perspectives. And as Mur is not reading long post, this is mostly for the players. You're asking the wrong question. If you're talking about my typo ... then : oh well, you understood what I meant. If not ... well, it is not really a question, I am trying to get the some other opinion on this announcement as mine is so bad. It has a good part, the announcement, but otherwise it bothers me greatly. Let me explain. First of all, it constitutes an act of ... how should I say ... kind of bad thing ... that items won, bought or simply rewarded for whatever reasons are being changed (require payment) and ripped of their utility ( I will not pay 1GC to kill some one, I am too avaricious or I have other plans instead of using an item I could have used freely before) You the gold needs to get withdrawn from the game, then new items should be added not to change the old ones. Second: Not just changed but changed into "pay per use" items, who can afford these items now ? For example, If one would kill me, I could pay the 1GC fee to get resurrected as I could sell somethings that I own, but what about some smaller players ? Unknown ones ? There are not so many that'd do the quest to resurrect them nor pay for them. Third: now, this is the first time you have to pay something more then 1$ to get something in this game. And this is a step to add more expensive items. Forth: this is the first time when it is clearly stated that what you own now you can lose it tomorrow. Fifth: On personal level: This is really annoying: : Chewett revives! : Accident or suicide, who knows.. Chewett dies C'mon. When you payed to get someone killed and that someone is getting resurrected ... it looks like he is laughing of you. Yea, make the announcement on global lvl if you want you can put those messages in trigger box but keeping these messages for 12h ... is simply bad. And if you don't see something wrong with it ... please don't tell me about it. For example, if I'd get annoyed so much as to want to kill DD (sorry DD, you're too good as an example), I would do it just to don't see him or his name everywhere I go. It would simply annoy me even greater. --------> this, "Fifth", will get you say : great, then we keep it like this. On a second thought, there have been other precedents for this behavior: - Elus: Colored Elu was given by the Xmas tree in 2011 (if I am not mistaken) and they've got removed; on next Xmas, same creature remained in game. - shared items (Large Water Buckets), shared and but not really. One of them is still tight to MB [spoiler] Ann. 2658 - [2013-06-24 03:24:20 - Stage 12] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur Large Water Buckets Three water buckets from the Marinds Bell item dispatcher have been turned into Large buckets that require a high gardening skill to be taken from the dispatcher. One of the large buckets gives you a lot more dowsing skill per use and two of them gather more water (and give increased dowsing skill) [/spoiler] - "Sky is visible", so what if it's not visible ? Is it really have to be RL like ? Sixth: I don't understand why this is restricted to kill resurrect items ? It could get added to other items like : you buy with 1sc a license to gather 10 times (whatever resource you want) ----> yes, it has lots of sarcasm but only until smth like this gets implemented and then it turns to visionary/prevision Seventh: I am getting under the impression that this is not getting into a fun game nor free of payment ... not anymore. A coin for the ferryman You don't ask for 1GC to ferry someone to angien's shrine (especially now when angiens got so expensive) and this is a game with absolutely no connection with mythology. Edited January 16, 2015 by No one Miq and dst 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubaris Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Concept of sacrifice is not unknown to me, but whom do we present our offerings to grant us power over death and revival, and why gold? My question is more of a call for the official connection to be announced partially - not leave it like that "1gc cost of activation", rather than listing plausible interpretations. It should be better presented eventually, for it to be a proper part of MD culture. Eara stated the most of what I wanted to say now: Paying a few coins does not fully fulfil the sacrifice idea in my oppinion, because not many of us (correct me if I am wrong) are too much spiritually bound to our coins, so it doesn't really hurt to lose them. It also doesn't influence balance between killing/revival in the realm, since both actions require gold from now on. It does not require any direct activity from the killer or reviver, which I think is pity. The bolded part explains why the ritualistic part of the kill or revival is damaged, and in the world of symbols, ritual should remain strong. The myth that Chewie linked can be proper, if we link it with existing MD aspects, while in this case I think they await their creation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 16, 2015 Root Admin Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 1gold is not the price for a contract kill. It is the price to use the itemadded to whatever was so far. "most" and not "all" because i still kept the original functionality just in case, its not currently used. Also there is ONE single item that will kill if provided blood. The symbolic connection is there, initially i wanted the gold to go to the dead person (the ferry man tax) ..but that would mess with my initial purpose to somehow limit the wild use of such items. In the future, such items can be easily configured to use other stuff, for example a poisonous arrow could use poison, and at the same time the victim would not instantly go to the graveyard but suffer a slow death while still outside the graveyard. This functionality is already there, i just didn't had the opportunity to use it yet (and gladly chew knows about it too so it won't get extinct like many other features i did and forgot about) Kyphis the Bard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 ... to somehow limit the wild use of such items. What wild use ? Last use was 1 month ago (and he was asking for it and was promised). And prior ones ... I have no idea. Wild use ? when you throw a tone of items in public you should expect some to get used. And then just because ... something, all of them gets changed. I understand to change public tools, shared tools, but these ... these are private / independent tools. I am sorry, I don't agree with this change. The feature is nice and offers lots of possibilities, but the change is wrong. I wonder what's Ailith's opinion on this change knowing this announcement: Ann. 3265 - [2015-01-02 19:39:18 - Stage 12] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur Ailith received kill and revive ability, via items. The items she held where fitting for that and her role as a judge is also fitting. This combined with the new years wish where in my opinion enough to grant this. ----- Note: for those that don't know, I am involved in this change due to my "Rod of Ascelpius". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelis Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I agree with No one on this. But then again I might be biased for having a killing item. I believe changes are indeed needed, but in my opinion, the death system is the one that should be affected, not the players' possessions Also, I could understand the items being changed due to some kind of abuse, but surprisingly, I've never heard of such thing when it comes to killing/reviving. Every time they were used, it all seemed very sensible to me. ~Aelis No one, dst and DARK DEMON 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARK DEMON Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) I also agree that its the death system that should be affected, not the kill/revive items. I heard someone suggest a while back (not sure who) that the more you die, generally, the more your soul gets "used to death" and you'd feel the negative effects much less each time. Maybe that can be a more logical way to auto-fix "wild use", rather than gold sacrifice, with apparently no rituals or nobody to offer the gold to, etc. Currently we apparently just have to... imagine the gold being given to the ferry man as we use a killing item? There are wonderful ideas here, given by people themselves... http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/16043-death-system/ and they might be the solution to achieving a balanced, logical, symbolic and most of all: fun and interactive solution. Gold is way too common and this system will limit interaction too much, and is also greatly unbalanced. The killing/death system has potential for much more. Edited January 17, 2015 by DARK DEMON Aelis, No one and dst 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ary Endleg Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 All this change will do is provide a gold sink. Nothing more. dst and Tal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 All this change will do is provide a gold sink. Nothing more. Yea, i thought of that too, but it seems pointless, really. The kill & resurrect items are used less as the time passes. I doubt that 5-10gc/year can be called a "gold sink". dst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lashtal Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I quite like this change. I don't see the issues No one pointed, 1 gold piece is a reasonable price and should prevent a light-hearted use. As gold sink it's un-efficient, but I don't think it was the original purpose. Kyphis the Bard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Zl-eye-f)-nea Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 @No One – my comment wasn’t directed at you, I didn’t even notice the typo lol. Your point about free payment – the item doesn’t need you to pay money, it just needs you to present gold. Could be a gold item as far as I’m aware (?). With the coins, you don’t have to pay the money, just someone has to pay the money. Look at shadowseeker if you want an example. MD needs more funds, this seems like a good way to get it more funds, whilst ensuring people can still play with the skills those funds use...but without having to pay. They’d have to pay in some other way, with activity. Wins both sides in my eyes. Plus, not all ways to kill involve items. As below: [spoiler] Kill Contracts - A public way to order someone's death A killer can offer for whatever reason he wants to (sell, trade, award, etc), a blank kill contract. The receiver of this contract can use it to name someone that he wants dead. Killer needs to attack and win against the victim with fightcause set to "kill". In the last few minutes of the fightcause trigger, the contract can be activated and used to confirm the kill on the target. If ANYONE attacks and wins against the killer with fightcause set to "interceptkill", the kill order is sabotaged and the contract can't be used till the fightcause triggers expire. Ability to issue kill contracts will be given only to roles that fit, both in power and character history. The first character to receive this ability (and the one it was designed Ann. 2205 - [2012-02-17 22:13:36 - Stage 11] - Permalink - Posted By Muratus del Mur In response to what i considered to be a larger and better organized movement than the kill reason(s) itself, the follwoing characters were revived by me: Princess Katt, Maebius, Guillak, Seigheart. This action was done based on personal reasons same way the kill spell can be used , and was used, on personal reasons if you have it. It happens i have the revive spell so i used it This action does not imply any judgement regarding the reasons of their killing or if they should stay dead or not. [/spoiler] In terms of losing something you own, you haven’t actually lost anything. You still have the power, the item itself. The game doesn’t connect to mythology directly, but it connects to the same thing mythology connects to. @Rhaegar – much of md, my favourite bits, are not laid out for you to read. They point, and you can either follow or not. Whether on purpose or not, the arrow goes somewhere interesting. If you remember an old post about answers and questions this should be relevant to you:- don’t sit on the bench. -- System wise, I agree the system itself could do with tweaking, however, the fact its now easier for groups to enact their will rather than individuals, that’s an interesting system change imo. You can have all the gold in the world and not be able to kill, you can have all the items in the world and not be able to kill. It becomes more collaborative. The only concern that really comes to mind is the original gifting of this. There is a difference between having an item that can kill, and having a kill ability. Some of these items were gained from caves and competitions, some were granted as rewards and some were granted following a special request. If there is someone here who originally asked to have or was granted the ability to kill, not to have a kill item, then I would think it fitting that this person should now get a bag of gold coins, or should get an altered version of the kill item that maintains the original functionality, or something else. I’d add...if they asked for an item, but meant to ask for a skill...that’s really not relevant. You can’t ask a leprechaun for money and get annoyed when you’re sitting in a pile of gold and loads of people come steal it, that’s your own fault for not being specific enough. Then there’s the fact that a gold note now doesn’t have the same value as a gold coin...but then that’s a reflection of rl so I don’t have any issue with it. Z Ivorak, No one, lashtal and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Comment removed Edited September 5, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 this will still not change the main problem. the lack of use by those who can revive, of their revival items/abilities. No one, dst and Ary Endleg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimrodel Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I might sound stupid, but instead of gold, kill items should give you permanent stat damage in terms of ve or something because I believe that everytime a 'murder' is committed, a part of the soul of the murderer dies with it too. Though I don't know what counter effect could be kept for revival items as permanent stat damage could be there as well (owing to the concept of sacrificing your soul to bring someonelse's soul back) but people would be reluctant to revive other people due to stat damage. A little percentage of ve loss should be affordable, and regenerable as well. Jubaris, lashtal and Eara Meraia 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miq Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you think of the long roll of death and revival then it started with one item and definite revival at torches. From then it progressed to more kill items, then revival items, then molquert, then assassin, then gold cost. So in that line i'd success drop the gold cost and then drop the cooldowns on items to 5 minutes or so. Making it a normal roleplay feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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