Protector Spells

[Ledah]

I didn't realise you can stone the MP6 protector spells as I assumed they were like the LHO spells which, as I understand it, can't be put in a memory stone nowadays.

I'm curious to see whether people think that should be the case for all prot-spells too?

I feel like it should be the case that you cannot stone them, as the protector should be using the spells for the benfit of their herd, so to speak.

[Blackshade Rider]

Mp6 is a earned status unlike lho is a admin given status and it's spells if I remember correctly. 

Mp6 are allowed to stone there spells for a long time now. Syrian does it, fyrd had done it when mp6 and so have many more

 

You can not compare mp6 to LHO as they are entirely different and LHO is not part of a mind stage.

 

[Blackshade Rider]

Also I'd like to point out your poll is a bit deceiving the way it's worded and for someone that reads quickly might not notice if they vote yes that they are voting against mp6 spells being stoned.

 

For those that don't notice in ledahs poll if you are AGAINST mp6 being allowed to stone their spells vote Yes.

If you a FOR mp6 being ALLOWED to stone their spells then vote No. 

 

[Fyrd Argentus]

Anyway, the MP6 spells are geared to an environment where there are hordes of newbies.  When there are just 1-2 of them, the spells are almost useless. Regular heal spells are more powerful.  So, the whole thing is moot.  I gave up MP6 because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages at this time.

{I am still committed to helping newbies, just not in this way.}

Edited June 23, 2023 by Fyrd Argentus

[Ledah]

Thanks for your feedback guys, keep it coming!

1 hour ago, Blackshade Rider said:

Mp6 is a earned status unlike lho is a admin given status and it's spells if I remember correctly. 

Mp6 are allowed to stone there spells for a long time now. Syrian does it, fyrd had done it when mp6 and so have many more

 

You can not compare mp6 to LHO as they are entirely different and LHO is not part of a mind stage.

 

I personally would argue LHO was earned more than MP6 has ever been. Also, hilst it may have been allowed for a long time and others have done it, that does not mean it can't change - or that it should stay the same. I also don't understand why we cannot compare MP6 to LHO with regards to this particular point, on the spells - can you elaborate?

Apologies you feel the wording on the poll is deceiving as that wasn't my intention. I should have appreciated that English is not the first language of many on MD. I will try to be more considerate in future.

21 minutes ago, Fyrd Argentus said:

Anyway, the MP6 spells are geared to an environment where there are hordes of newbies.  When there are just 1-2 of them, the spells are almost useless. Regular heal spells are more powerful.  So, the whole thing is moot.  I gave up MP6 because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages at this time.

{I am still committed to helping newbies, just not in this way.}

Agreed, it is why I am not sure why we need them - perhaps best to put the system to rest for now then instead? As I see it, the people most interested in and actively helping new players are not MP6 or using it.

Also, nothing is ever moot!

[Fyrd Argentus]

1 hour ago, Ledah said:

put the system to rest for now then instead?

I would rather see the coding effort put into fixing MP6 rather than suppressing it.  In a sense, the system is 'at rest' by itself.

[death ray]

Mp6 should be allowed the ability to stone spells as they see fit. As they worked for and earn that role, they should have adequate discernment in proper use when stoning spells. 

Until we as a community see an issue arise from this, ie: abuse/bugs, it should remain as is. 

[Ledah]

Thank you both, it is much easier to know what someone is thinking when they type rather than push the little buttons next to a post, much appreciated.

I personally view the storing of the spells as a bit of an abuse which is why I made the topic, DR. Thank you for your authorative declaration of when a change can be made - we as a community have noted it.

I disagree on the change being a suppressing of MP6 Fyrd - can you explain why you think that is the case? Diminishing perhaps, but I never felt being able to hoard spellstones was a key aspect of MP6, the same as LHO.

I am actually very keen to see MP6 fully replace LHO and move to something more formal with regards to helping new players. If they were unable to stone spells and the like, it would be a lot easier to advocate for them having more powerful tools like some LHO had.

[Fyrd Argentus]

29 minutes ago, Ledah said:

I disagree on the change being a suppressing of MP6 Fyrd - can you explain why you think that is the case? Diminishing perhaps, but I never felt being able to hoard spellstones was a key aspect of MP6, the same as LHO

You said "put the system to rest".  I thought you meant stop allowing MP6's.

My position on the spell stones is - why punish MP6 this way, when all other spells can be saved?  Once no longer MP6, that's all there are.  And while MP6, as I said, the perks are few enough as is.

Another point - with adept count low and fluctuating, MP6 can pop up and down constantly, so spell stones help maintain the abilities during those low-adept times.

[Ledah]

Ah that is what I meant - if it is pointless or not fit for purpose why keep it unchanged. More of a dismantling than a suppressing...

I'm not out to punish MP6 in any way - is that the impression you have? I would much rather see MP6 become the new LHO as mentioned before - much more powerful and important than they are now.

With regards to the spellstones and people dropping, if they are actively using their powers would they be able to consistently store them? That feels like a bit of an odd argument for in my opinion. Plus, if they can't maintain an adept count, already majorly reduced, to me that would imply there are not enough people who need/value their help.

[death ray]

I feel like you are trying to point a finger at someone specifically, Ledah. Just say who and what your problem is. 

[Ledah]

This is a general discussion, DR. I have no issue with anybody and I have already stated what I feel the problem is - or did you not read my posts?

Regardless, thank you for your valuable contribution.

[Fyrd Argentus]

17 minutes ago, Ledah said:

if it is pointless or not fit for purpose why keep it unchanged

Removing a feature is just as much work as adding or improving one.  Let's add, not go back.

18 minutes ago, Ledah said:

I'm not out to punish MP6 in any way - is that the impression you have?

Why else block them saving spells?  I use them as prizes in contests, sometimes.

19 minutes ago, Ledah said:

I would much rather see MP6 become the new LHO

That would be great!

[Ledah]

I agree entirely Fyrd - as I have mentioned before, I would rather see them added to - community elected LHO's, far more flexibility... sounds good to me! I am glad to see we agree on that front.

As I said, I feel it is an abuse and against the spirit of MP6. More importantly, if you are going to give them more powerful abilities as LHO's, then it seems wise to treat the spells in a similar manner. I am glad to hear however that you are indeed a selfless MP6, Fyrd.

[Chewett]

I have a pretty good solution for this.

 

If you think its fine, do nothing.

If you disagree with it, Don't worship people that do this, stop worshipping people that do this, or let those who do worship people who do this know they are stoning the spells.

 

Simple solution! I won't be changing it currently as I see the "people solution" much more powerful.

[Ivorak]

Some assorted observations/thoughts:

1. Once upon a time it was considered the case that MP6 Protectors had "life and death power" over their worshippers. I think we should make concrete these life and death powers, and also make it clear that worshipping a Protector has tradeoffs.
2. Some players are using their Protector abilities for general aid to newbies.
3. I think this (#2) should likely be a separate function, and Protectors should more "factional", e.g., a group of players aligned on a mission should raise up their own Protector and that Protector should serve their faction before all others.
4. If #3, then I think it likely makes sense to restrict Protector spells to these Protectors (no spell stones).
5. If #4, then I think it also makes sense to give Protectors more powerful spells.
6. If #5, then we should also have ways for opposing factions to hurt/disable Protectors.

[death ray]

@Ivorak, I can see this being a decent idea, and working out in a fun way. As long as we can maintain two at the least Protectors. The factional part is a great idea to expand on, along with the latter part of your post. Maybe, if you have further ideas and a lay out of how this should be reworked. I'm sure a new forum post and some polite<--! discussion would get things in proper order.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Adepts are needed, worshippers are optional.  Worshippers are supposedly permanent (but refresh when adept count goes low and the MP6 drops, which happens all too often these days).  The idea was worshippers send their heat to fuel the MP6 spells (especially if they don't fight).  Again, we're bickering over incredibly useless spells (these days, anyway).

I think an MP6 can take whatever political position they want (or need to for support of adepts), which also depends of course on their citizenship & alliances.  Outside the scope of this question, though...

[Chewett]

The thread has been split. Please keep comments to only Protector spells and MP6 and do not comment on anyone who specifically is or what a MP6.