Recent Events In Md

[Firsanthalas]

Recent events in MD have left me feeling quite hurt, ashamed and to be honest with a complete sense of despair. I am going to ask you to do something for a moment if you will. I am going to ask you to take off your emotional response hat for a few moments and your ’member of (insert land name here)’ hat too.
So let’s start at the beginning shall we? A while back there was a torch competition. I urged people in Loreroot to participate on the basis that, well to be quite honest, it seemed to be fizzling out and I thought it would be a good way to get people motivated and interested. And hey, it might have brought some reward for Loreroot, so sue me. I fully expected that if we did quite well, it would result in other lands sitting up and taking notice and in turn increasing activity. Not a bad thing at all I thought. Now we seemed to have gotten people interested. We employed a tactic which subsequently seemed to say the least, unpopular. Now resist the urge to explode with righteous indignation please.
This ‘tactic’ was noted to be used by other lands. It doesn’t really matter who came up with it, who used it most or even if it was fair. What matters is that it was being used by other lands other than Loreroot. Even if not an official land strategy it was nevertheless in use. At no point previous to this did anyone at all say it was cheating (at least not to my knowledge). So let’s just leave it at the fact that while, unfair perhaps, or dirty even, it was not cheating (or at the absolute very least, nobody said it was and lots of people were doing it).
Now, we come to a post by Rhaegar congratulating his fellow Lorerootians in winning. I will whole heartedly say that this was an amazingly moronic and potentially insensitive and insulting thing to do. However, he did say that it was not his intention to gloat or insult people and as he also said he did post it in the Loreroot section.
Regardless, some people took offence to it. Now here it comes. Suddenly Loreroot cheated. A tactic that was not considered or identified as cheating suddenly is cheating. Rhaegar is personally called a cheat. Oddly enough a few people agree that indeed it is not cheating and has been employed by others. Yet Rhaegar remains branded as a cheat. Then it moves further and several people in Loreroot are told that they are cheaters too. In fact to be blunt, it basically descended into all of Loreroot being branded as cheats.
I would also like to point out a few more things at this juncture. Several people who claimed to have been insulted by Rhaegar’s post had this to say about it “ “. Yup, nothing. Neither on the forum or to me. Now it seems that at this point the good and righteous people of MD (that being everyone that was not one of the evil cheaters in Loreroot) decided that it was good and proper that evil be vanquished.
In some cases it seems the justification was to hurt Rhaegar for his hurtful comments. This is where it gets intriguing really. After choosing to make no effort to air your hurt, you set about to punish Rhaegar by stomping all over Loreroot and the evil cheaters therein. Yes, you thought so highly of the need to stamp on Rhaegar (one person) you’d walk over everyone else to do so. Now to me that is a bit like carpet bombing a country to teach one person that upset you a lesson, but I digress. In fact, I guess you had no choice in the matter because, let’s face it; I didn’t do anything at all when you spoke to me about it. Oh that’s right isn’t it? Nobody actually did come to me at any point to address any concerns or issues.
But let’s not get into that shall we? Far be it from me to suggest that anyone actually attempts to communicate. Nope, much better to get out the auld torch and pitchfork and have a good old lynching.
And so our story leads us to round two. I like to think of this as the burning of the infidels. So, you club together (nice to see you set aside your differences or simply jump on the band wagon) and proceed to do your worst. But wait! They are still at it. I cannot seriously believe my eyes! The evil wrongdoers are at it again. They are now using alts to cheat. The nerve of em! You’d never see anyone else do that. No sir, not on your nelly. Well accept maybe that lad there sitting outside Ravenhold as both him selves at the same time. But actually, that doesn’t matter, cos he is one of us and we are the righteous few. Yes, we shall fight their evil ways by the same token.
I have to stop here and ask the question, do two wrongs really make a right? If your concern was about cheating, why is it that it was acceptable for anyone other than Loreroot people to cheat? (and for the record do the exact same thing previous to these events, not even as a reaction to them).
For the record, I don’t agree with cheating. I never asked, implied or approved of anyone cheating. I would always tell people that are cheating to stop and more importantly not to do so in the first place.
Steps should be taken to stop cheating. I wholeheartedly agree on this. But this was not about cheating. This was about the evil doers in Loreroot cheating. This was, for want of a better word a witch-hunt. Yet another crusade against certain sinners, but not the sin itself.
I saw people called names. I saw Rhaegar called a cheat. You may call him hot-headed, a moron, hasty, tactless and perhaps lots of things. But to call him a cheat when he actually hasn’t.... Sorry, in my book that is just wrong. I saw someone called a cheat that amusingly enough has never scored or even help to score a point for Loreroot. I personally feel that I have also been branded as a cheat.
I saw someone that was threatened because they used an alt. They were told to stop or face the consequences (which included having their alt named publicly). I saw a threat where a person was told that seeing as Loreroot was a gang of cheaters, and that we were going to get a dose of our own medicine.

I’m sorry, but I have really had enough of the self righteous and sanctimonious nonsense that has been flying. The simple truth is that this has not been about cheating. It has been about settling scores and personal grudges. It’s been about one-upmanship and throwing your weight about.
If it was truly about cheating then why has this not been properly discussed? I have still yet to hear from anyone what exactly is an acceptable or not acceptable use of an alt in the TC. I have not heard any general discussion or agreement on the practice of taking another lands torch.
You have achieved absolutely nothing constructive in this mess. And yes it is a mess. It’s just bred yet more ill will and hurt.
Is it not about time that this crap stopped? Is it not about time that instead of flying off the handle at insults (imagined, misinterpreted, real or otherwise) and taking personal issues and grudges to beat people with stops? Is it really really so hard to try to sit down and talk to other people? Is it so hard to identify an issue and try to resolve it without anger and violence and upsetting people? Or is it simply a case that if you have the power (or feel that you have) to do something that you have the right to do so? Are anyone else’s opinions and feelings that unimportant?

[Metal Bunny]

Lol; righteousness and civility mean nothing before they who behold violence and bigotry as the ultimate means to their ends.
I quoted myself, stop googling. ¬_¬

Anyway, you are correct, of course.
First of all, let it be obvious that this wasn't cheating.
Not at all.
If it was cheating, then mur would have punished you.
The ones who do it for the first time, or find some gambit or tactic, with emphasis on tactic, are allowed to do it, until mur makes up a new rule, or places a new restriction in the game.
He did; LR wasn't cheating.

The ones who, from this point on, continue to state that they did will be severely rp-slapped on the back of their head.
Nah, not really, else I would be contradicting my own first statement, huh?

Anyway, secondly; You have to understand Firs, that this is the way people are.
Just look at reality tv, narcissistic, loud mouthed, ugly bunch of people who will stop at nothing, not even their own self-esteem, to get what they want.
You're king.
You're gonna have to learn how to deal with the less-then-wanted part of the populace.
In this case, it's just what you did; make a statement and condemn their petty bigotry. A bit like the UN really.
If the annoyance continues, call on your allies and place restrictions, with civility, upon the guilty ones. Like... I dunno, something, cuz a trade embargo won't really work here .. or out there, but that's another matter.

Then again, you could just be a king and ignore the non-lorerootians.
Or be a king and totally go on a crusade or something.
Or be a king and do like; 'Orf 'ith iz 'ead!'

I personally like the last one

[Orlando Gardiner]

You are absolutly right, we should not blame him for it. If I can even remember well, than this is one of the most basic rules:

You are free to do anything in the game that is tehnicaly allowed. If you consider that you discovered some sort of exploit or a bug, report it to a moderator.

This stating, that he just did what was legal in the first place, that we want in to change, than we should not harrass him.

I am very sorry if you ever had the feeling I was one of the 'other side, as you name them, it was never my intention.

on the other side, why it is coming up now. is mostly because the few people who are realy bound to a land(mb, indeed, you guess right) feel left out of the Tc for a long time now, and now finally found usself telling it. Not directed to others, just as something we wish to change ..

[Firsanthalas]

Just to be clear. This is not about blame or labelling people. I have deliberately not named anyone (except Rhaegar, for reasons which should be clear). I simply want people to wake up and smell the roses so to speak. I just want people to realise that talking and discussing things is an option. Once you start targetting a person or persons for something then you do just that. You label them. If someone does something that is wrong, there is no need to harrass or pursue them really. I don't understand why a case for something cannot be made without resorting to going after anyone.

[Grido]

The [u]tactic[/u] whilst disliked by many is not against the rules, i should think due to it being the popular talking point of the moment, that Mur knows about it, so if it wasnt allowed he would say so.


What ~is~ against the rules is alt abuse. And clearly nobody is "aware" of what alt abuse is, because i always catch people doing it and they always act innocent and say "Oh, i didnt realise that it was alt abuse". I think twice this TC. [quote]I have still yet to hear from anyone what exactly is an acceptable or not acceptable use of an alt in the TC.[/quote]
If alts interact with each other in other ways than talking in chat, then it can be considered alt abuse.
If alts gather information for the main that the main would not otherwise have known, that is alt abuse.
If you use an alt to scout the area ahead of where you are to look out for possible people that might attack you, that would be alt abuse.
If you attack someone with your alt to discover a persons defence so that you know what to attack with with your main, that is alt abuse.
If you use your alt to in someway benefit your main account, that is alt abuse.
If you use your alt(s) so that other people can kill them off, then this is alt abuse. (Added as a note to people who dont realise why; It falls to benifiting your main character via proxy due to upping your nations score.)

Those rules that ~can~ apply outside of Torch Contest, ~do~ apply outside of Torch Contest.
If you are unsure if something is alt abuse or not, ask BEFORE you do it.



Who was the Person/accounts sitting outside Ravenhold you were talking about?

Edited January 20, 2010 by Grido

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='Grido' date='20 January 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1264009835' post='53125']
If alts gather information for the main that the main would not otherwise have known, that is alt abuse.
If you use an alt to scout the area ahead of where you are to look out for possible people that might attack you, that would be alt abuse.
[/quote]
I am guilty of these two things. I consider them more "borderline" than outright abuse, but I'll stop.

[Firsanthalas]

As I said Grido, Im not interested in branding or getting any individual into trouble. What I am interested in is having people see what is not allowed and ceasing for future reference. Lets all see what is unacceptable and then speak of punishment if people continue to transgress in the future.

[Grido]

As do I Tarquinus, but borderline or not, it's still alt abuse, each of those things are different levels of alt abuse, but they all are it.

[cutler121]

The only reason I am posting this is because I truly don't understand why MD seems to be heading more and more towards being all about punishment and trying to catch people doing bad things.

Surely Mur set the tone with the Festival of Pain, but is this really the direction we the people (I speak for everyone who thinks this is a sad direction for MD to go) want to support MD to head.

I know this is not what interests me at all in MD but I basically try to ignore all the c**p. There are so many positive and interesting things going on in MD. Even if this tone is mainly being set by veterans and people with longstanding dislikes of each other, you should realize that there might be a few new people around. Why would they stay if they can't respect the people who are here?

Not everyone in MD is as petty and small minded as these squabbles make it seem. It's just a shame I have to keep reminding myself of that.

So I am going to keep on doing my thing and try to ignore this sad direction MD seems to moving.

Not much Cheer here,

Cutler

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='cutler121' date='21 January 2010 - 05:14 AM' timestamp='1264014864' post='53131']
The only reason I am posting this is because I truly don't understand why MD seems to be heading more and more towards being all about punishment and trying to catch people doing bad things.

Surely Mur set the tone with the Festival of Pain, but is this really the direction we the people (I speak for everyone who thinks this is a sad direction for MD to go) want to support MD to head.

I know this is not what interests me at all in MD but I basically try to ignore all the c**p. There are so many positive and interesting things going on in MD. Even if this tone is mainly being set by veterans and people with longstanding dislikes of each other, you should realize that there might be a few new people around. Why would they stay if they can't respect the people who are here?

Not everyone in MD is as petty and small minded as these squabbles make it seem. It's just a shame I have to keep reminding myself of that.

So I am going to keep on doing my thing and try to ignore this sad direction MD seems to moving.

Not much Cheer here,

Cutler
[/quote]
I have to agree, I really hate the direction this is going in.

Most of you know I have been playing for several hours almost everyday for the past year, and while I like to take my time I get things done.

When I joined, I loved this game. Everyday, there was something exciting happening and people were, if not nice, at least civil to each other.

But most of the last year I have seen instance after instance after instance of people abusing each other, fraud, bullying, and flagrant abuse. I have been reading my way through the forums all week, and almost HALF of the topics I have found have been little more than flame wars.

I see things like what Sheops has just done to Meru Chi; the attacks against dst as a person, not a player; the whole hoarding issue, even of TEST items; spammers; scammers; reputation bombers; the whole "adult behavior" thing; just about anything under the sun that anyone can do wrong, it happens.

The rule might be that if you can technically do it it is basically allowed, but you'd think people can apply some basic morals and common sense to that.

Even myself, I was appalled when a close friend was staying with me and using one of my old accounts, the way that people treated him he is NEVER coming back. He did things that made ME jealous, and because of the way he was treated he is gone forever. That sickens me.

When I made a topic to try and get the contribution some people had made to MD rewarded, I was getting people claiming it was "All about my own reputation". How did MD get to the point that everything is just trying to boost yourself and inflate yourself? Why do we have to not only assume the worst, but damn well try to prove it true?

This is not the MD that I joined.
This is not the MD I loved.
This is not the MD that I STILL spend hours telling my friends about.

PS:
I'll damn well admit it, I cried writing this. I've been able to deny what I have seen happening to MD until I started writing this, but now I can't.
I'm obsessive, I almost never give up.
But if MD keeps going the way it has been going, I may never even reach MP5. I may be gone before next Christmas.

[Kamisha]

Though I am not ready to become a true citizen of loreroot I like to consider my self one. I have to completely agree with Firsanthalas at any rate this is discrimination. Although I do believe it is cheating and I think it has been referred to once or twice in a few posts.

However by any means I have found there is only one way to compete with people that use a flawed system to there advantage. To put things into perspective in the past and I mean like distant past such a biblical times (if you believe in that) there has been record of in wars that a rule was implied that you cant kill after dark. Continuing you cant even today attack a vehicle carrying injured soldiers that bare the red cross symbol.

Obviously people go against this and do it anyway. That's why these rules are lifted from the battle fields of countries that are not represented in the embessy. I don't want to employ that the torch competition is anything like this but put into perspective this is a war between the nations.

We are simply fighting back the way you fought us. Now here we are taking the blame because you guys didn't do your part this time. I mean really its about time somebody took the podium in the same style any of you did. Its simply our turn.

I would like to put an end to this right now but untill rules of the contest are changed that is not a fact that any of us can make a reality. Not by any means do I see this as an honest victory because quite frankly it isn't. Though if by any thoughts this is only a fair return of your favor.

That's all I have to say on this matter.

[apophys]

The activity level in MD is low. People have very little to do beyond training in the GGG or SG. When people are bored [i]en masse[/i] and have nothing better to do, things can get ugly.

Bread and circuses keep the masses content. Our "bread" is a good economy, conditions for RP, and a generally stable system. The economy seems fine to me. Unbeatable rituals are a bad thing for the system, though the imbalance on the community as a whole is lessened by the health of RP, as far as I can tell. That leaves us with circuses.



My temporary (maybe permanent) solution is: giving temporary quest pages for free (with LHO approval; this is to prevent questless quest pages), for the duration of a quest only (maybe have a gray "Q" icon instead of gold?). The permanent page would still be unlocked as it currently is.

This would give people something to occupy themselves with, and would give a nice big boost to the growth of MD.

[LadyDawn]

It is just sad... how many of people is willing to throw a stone at other, how many around is just fishing for something bad to bring it out... That kind of behavior is destroying the community.
When I joined MD, that would be exactly 60 days ago (yes, a jungling in this world) I have seen a great game offering different sort of challenges to overcome and such, meet some realy nice people etc. It was "fun" in all regards.
But right now, all this bickering and ponting fingers around... to be honest, its annoying. I tend to wonder... do we, humans, realy need to destroy everything nice that we find? Do we realy need to always be seeking something, anything that is "bad"? I mean, look around... we have great looking virtual enviroment with loads of unique people behind interesting characters and so on and on.
Individual person is usualy smart... but does that realy help if as soon as one of the "rotten apples" starts to point finger around mayority of those individuals become just a bunch of sheeps following the example? I mean, arent you gals and guys tired of that same behavior irl, cant you realy not live without it and you must bring it with you over here? Think about it, just for few seconds, if you are smart, wise or whatever then those few seconds will be enaugh for you to not do it.
And for crying out load... stop thinking that it is all right when you do it (whatever you do) but it is definetly not all right if someone else does it. Shut your mouth if you did the very same thing before because you seriously do not have the right to point at others, your "innocence" in the matter is non-existant. If you want that thing (again, whatever it might be) to change and you did it previously, point your dirty finger at yourself first and only after that at others who actualy did what you did before. Get it?!
Anyhow... just my personal rant of a sort...

Now, as far what Loreroot did or didnt do, I wont say a thing because I know very little of it if anything. I will say tho, that I didnt heard of any instructions going around about how to do whatever happened, so thats it.

As for Prince Rhaelgar...[color="#808080"][i]/sarcasm on[/i][/color] well, congrats to those of you who picked him out for your crusade, you seemed to study history of crusades well and know how to pick your victim. [color="#808080"][i]/sarcasm off[/i][/color]

To sum it up... for crying out loud... "grow up"!

Edited February 15, 2010 by LadyDawn

[Chewett]

[quote name='LadyDawn' date='15 February 2010 - 04:44 AM' timestamp='1266209055' post='54496']
When I joined MD, that would be exactly 60 days ago (yes, a jungling in this world) I have seen a great game offering different sort of challenges to overcome and such, meet some realy nice people etc. It was "fun" in all regards.
[/quote]

This issue is much older than you mention. This issue has always been here, But perhaps we are just more open to fight about it now. There has always been abuse, cheating, scamming and exceedingly bad rudeness. I would say that if a player just played MD and didnt read the forums they could probably blissfully ignore most of the abuse.

I agree that today we have reached a pinnacle of what is happening. But with the fact that some people cant forget issues and move one
(ref [quote]As for Prince Rhaelgar.../sarcasm on well, congrats to those of you who picked him out for your crusade, you seemed to study history of crusades well and know how to pick your victim. /sarcasm off[/quote] one example in this very thread) then this community will fail. Becuase we are small we cannot hold grudges against people. We need to learn to accept what people have done and move on.

If this doesnt change, and change soon then Magicduel will fail. Less and Less people will come and more and more will leave. Before i recommended a lot of friends to play, Nowadays i have explicitly told them not to play again. This is not something one person can do now. It is something that everyone needs to think about and do something about in how they play.

[ladytwin]

*smiles sad* please people this game is more about roleplay then fighting and if we keep the chat nice and respectfull

(even if you roleplay evil ore disrepectfull to one)
(i mean you can play disrespectfull to one whit out the bad words ore hurting someones feelings for real)

then there will be no problems.
And all would have fun in this game again.

so bring the joy back that we seemd to have lost

[LadyDawn]

[u][b]@Chewett:[/b][/u]

Of course it is much older than 60 days, but I can not speak about the things that were going on before I even had a character in the game, I wasnt around at that time.
I doubt that a player just playing and not looking at the forum would be "saved from" seeing the bickering. You hear things even in game, if not in scene-chat then in messages. It might just take longer time to see it.
I agree on your "accept and move on" notion. We should all move on and just try to be better, I mean, isnt that what average person would like, become better than he/she is?
But sadly, even if everybody burry their hatchets, the stain shall remain, if nowhere else, then in the minds of those that were/are around at these times. Harm has been done, not to individuals involved but on the whole community.

[u][b]@ladytwin [/b][/u]:
The joy is still there, it just requires some searching.

[u][b]@community at large:[/b][/u]
Lets have some tollerance for each other and stick together, we are all humans at the end. I am preaty sure we can do it, if we put our minds to it.