Discussion about reviving MD

[Jester]

A player trying to revive MD is like trying to revive a person who is drowning by throwing a bucket of water at their face.


EDIT: To expand on that, I didn't mean players shouldn't try to make the game more fun. I simply meant that MD wouldn't be MD without Mur, and only Mur could "revive" the game.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Jester

[Kamisha]

[quote name='Jester' date='17 February 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1266448726' post='54652']
A player trying to revive MD is like trying to revive a person who is drowning by throwing a bucket of water at their face.


EDIT: To expand on that, I didn't mean players shouldn't try to make the game more fun. I simply meant that MD wouldn't be MD without Mur, and only Mur could "revive" the game.
[/quote]

Technically you arnt supposed to critisize but screw it might as well be open. Yes I agree with this though with the removal of RPC's its time to make as many people as possible take action make an event. I simply want to be part of building things. This is a new era if you want to put it that way. Mur has opened a gate and shown how a community makes a game what it is. Though small and shrinking its time for those that have the ability to change things change it and those who dont (myself) make a move to make things change. Jester I am not vetoing your thoughts I am agreeing with you I just say that if MD is to be saved it needs not only mur and I think mur would agree with what I say here though I will not speak for him thats his choice to make.

[Malaikat Maut]

[quote name='Jester' date='17 February 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1266448726' post='54652']
A player trying to revive MD is like trying to revive a person who is drowning by throwing a bucket of water at their face.


EDIT: To expand on that, I didn't mean players shouldn't try to make the game more fun. I simply meant that MD wouldn't be MD without Mur, and only Mur could "revive" the game.
[/quote]
I'd expect more wisdom from a king...and less somber from a clown.

This game [b]IS[/b] its community of players. They create their own excitement through creative quests and roleplay, and, while Mur and the AL provide a focused outlet, neither are entirely necessary for the society to peaceably operate. Player involvement and player motivation are lacking as much if not more so than the same from Mur.

[Jester]

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' date='18 February 2010 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1266500537' post='54673']
I'd expect more wisdom from a king...and less somber from a clown.

This game [b]IS[/b] its community of players. They create their own excitement through creative quests and roleplay, and, while Mur and the AL provide a focused outlet, neither are entirely necessary for the society to peaceably operate. Player involvement and player motivation are lacking as much if not more so than the same from Mur.
[/quote]

I would expect more wisdom from an EX-Sentinel, but this would be better discussed in another thread.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Jester

[Malaikat Maut]

[quote name='Jester' date='18 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1266520726' post='54689']
I would expect more wisdom from an EX-Sentinel, but this would be better discussed in another thread.
[/quote]
If that's a threat - spare me. If it were honesty then have me removed and save me the trouble. As of Server time: Feb 18 21:28 I still have my horns, though I possess little desire to employ my skills under one such as yourself.

Create a thread if you feel inclined, and I'll be happy to join you there though you may not be.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Malaikat Maut

[Jester]

(Sorry Kamisha, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, problem fixed now)

My point was this: without Mur, I wouldn't play MD. Mur is the only person who could actually revive MD. A bunch of random players could make the game more fun, sure. I'm in favor of that. What annoys me is the language used. Talking about reviving MD is like saying "MD is dead, but I can bring it back!"

And Malaikat, you have been inactive in game so I considered you an ex-Sentinel. If you're going to hugely over react even to that, then I do not want you in Necrovion, so you are hereby banished from Necrovion in game.

[awiiya]

"Without Mur, I wouldn't play MD."

I think that is true for most of us. However, would you play if there were no others in the realm? My inclination is that Mur is important, but all the rest of us combined are equally (if not more) important.

To tell an individual that they cannot do nothing, however, is unproductive at best, and cruel at worst. The truth is something far more cheerful and positive: individuals can and do revitalize Mur, and hijacking your own point, by revitalizing Mur they revitalize the world.

I recall a direct quote from Mur about BigC - "He got me to code all of outer magic in one day." (or something along those lines)

I think we could say the same about others: Khalazdad, Renavoid, and perhaps others. All of these people have been able to inspire not only Mur but also us. So, to say that one person cannot revitalize the realm is, in my opinion, more pessimistic than realistic. There are great dynamic people in the realm and outside of it, and my faith tells me that someone could potentially have a great enough impact to smack some color into the cheeks of MD.

By telling others that they can or will not do something has one of two effects: either they become angry and more determined to prove you wrong, or they buy into your suggestion and achieve nothing, wallowing in their self-induced helplessness. If it is the first you inspire, I could consider you a force for good. But in this case, it is my intuition that the helpless feeling is all you will impose, and that is not quite beneficial to anybody.

To sum it all up I would just like to say the following: Anybody CAN make a difference, of that I have no doubt. Mur isn't the only one playing this game, even if he does hold all the strings. Perhaps it's time for Pinnochio to look up, give a wave, and tell that puppet master to move his hands about? Anything is possible in a world that doesn't exist.

Awi

PS. It is a strong King that opens his doors to friends and enemies as equals.

Edited February 18, 2010 by awiiya

[Granos]

Ive been asked to comment here, so here it is.

Pecking Order

If you do not understand the simplistic significance of these two words then perhaps you should simply stop what your doing and go find a dictionary then go drown in a fire.


(PS: 10 points to everyone who misinterprets this )

[Jester]

[quote name='awiiya' date='18 February 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1266525651' post='54697']
"Without Mur, I wouldn't play MD."

I think that is true for most of us. However, would you play if there were no others in the realm? My inclination is that Mur is important, but all the rest of us combined are equally (if not more) important.

To tell an individual that they cannot do nothing, however, is unproductive at best, and cruel at worst. The truth is something far more cheerful and positive: individuals can and do revitalize Mur, and hijacking your own point, by revitalizing Mur they revitalize the world.

I recall a direct quote from Mur about BigC - "He got me to code all of outer magic in one day." (or something along those lines)

I think we could say the same about others: Khalazdad, Renavoid, and perhaps others. All of these people have been able to inspire not only Mur but also us. So, to say that one person cannot revitalize the realm is, in my opinion, more pessimistic than realistic. There are great dynamic people in the realm and outside of it, and my faith tells me that someone could potentially have a great enough impact to smack some color into the cheeks of MD.

By telling others that they can or will not do something has one of two effects: either they become angry and more determined to prove you wrong, or they buy into your suggestion and achieve nothing, wallowing in their self-induced helplessness. If it is the first you inspire, I could consider you a force for good. But in this case, it is my intuition that the helpless feeling is all you will impose, and that is not quite beneficial to anybody.

To sum it all up I would just like to say the following: Anybody CAN make a difference, of that I have no doubt. Mur isn't the only one playing this game, even if he does hold all the strings. Perhaps it's time for Pinnochio to look up, give a wave, and tell that puppet master to move his hands about? Anything is possible in a world that doesn't exist.

Awi

PS. It is a strong King that opens his doors to friends and enemies as equals.
[/quote]


I said people cannot REVIVE MD, do you guys read the posts you quote? Revive implies bringing the dead back to life. Revitalize implies restore strength. The people in MD can revitalize MD, and it is important. Something as simple as helping a new player or as complex as the Tainted scenario with Granos and Ailith help out the community. Do they REVIVE it? No. But they make MD more fun, which is what is important.

[Malaikat Maut]

[quote name='Jester' date='18 February 2010 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1266526329' post='54699']
I said people cannot REVIVE MD, do you guys read the posts you quote? Revive implies bringing the dead back to life. Revitalize implies restore strength. The people in MD can revitalize MD, and it is important. Something as simple as helping a new player or as complex as the Tainted scenario with Granos and Ailith help out the community. Do they REVIVE it? No. But they make MD more fun, which is what is important.
[/quote]
Since it appears as this entire argument is merely over semantics, just so that everyone is clear...

[quote name=Merriam-Webster]
Main Entry: re·vive
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈvīv\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): re·vived; re·viv·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French revivre, from Latin revivere to live again, from re- + vivere to live — more at quick
Date: 15th century

intransitive verb : to return to consciousness or life : [b]become active or flourishing again[/b]

transitive verb 1 : to restore to consciousness or life

2 : [b]to restore from a depressed, inactive, or unused state[/b] : bring back
3 : to renew in the mind or memory[/quote]

Granos, I'll take the dictionary, but I'd rather not drown in a fire if that's alright with you.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Malaikat Maut

[LadyDawn]

Oh my...

I dont think Mur or anybody else can revive MD because it is [b]not "dead"[/b]. You all seem to think about it as if it died already... I see it up there, we can log in and there are chars around, so technicaly it is not dead. And I will not go and discusse on actual meanings of the words. The fact is that some think MD has "died" already or that it is "dying".

Is it "dying"? Maybe but I certanly hope that it is not.

I said it yesterday on sg and I will repeat it here: Think of a bear and its winter sleep... after it it awakes with a roar. Even the thought of principles comes in mind...

Mur is ofcourse extremly important for the game. Saying that he isnt would be stupid. He is able to do things that no other can or if you wish, he is the force behind the MD. Like it or not, but he is the god of MD as he has powers that other dont, MD is his "baby". But on other hand he is also a human, and I believe everybody knows what that means.

One individual person can not make much difference. If you think that one can "save the world" you are gravely mistaken and blinded by the thought of your importance... but that is again just another human trait.
A wish to "revive" or however you want to call it, is nothing more than just one little tiny step that will not have much effect, no matter how much you might wish it would be more or how much you are convinced that you can do a change.
But if those individuals join together and work together to the whatever goal, then there is more chance that a change will come. But at the end, it still comes down to Mur and what he wants or doesnt want.

Anyhow, just another bucket of thoughts...


[quote name='Jester' date='18 February 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1266526329' post='54699']
I said people cannot REVIVE MD, do you guys read the posts you quote? Revive implies bringing the dead back to life. Revitalize implies restore strength. The people in MD can revitalize MD, and it is important. Something as simple as helping a new player or as complex as the Tainted scenario with Granos and Ailith help out the community. Do they REVIVE it? No. But they make MD more fun, which is what is important.
[/quote]

With this a agree.

Edited February 18, 2010 by LadyDawn

[Granos]

[Rant]

Ok so its time for a real post on this issue, lets focus on what the main subject matter of this is, the problem with MD? Well guess what its not Murs incomplete projects or the lack of shiney things or AL, history or whatever other BS reason you may have. It all simply boils down to the problem being you, You the players of MD who would rather rant whine and complain about lack of things rather than working with what you have. I swear its actually worse now than it was with the RPCs, which is scary that I find myself agreeing with Burns, although not in nearly the same regard, as it seems EVERYONE now is incapable of action because they seem to wait and demand that they need X to do this or Y I cant do this because of the lack of. When you all seem to be missing the most important aspect of what makes MD what it is. Its not the fucking lore or history or even the little stories, those are filler little distractions and praise, its all about the perceptions of how you see things how the hell do you think its possible to have something like the savelites otherwise? Savelfuser was not a god, yet there is an enitre church built around one character, hes not widely regarded as a god, but enough people saw him as such thus it was through thier perceptions that such a thing is made possible, Religion in md.

Now you might be wonding where Im going with all of this well its quite simple most of you love to sit back and come up with great ideas and concepts for things but then NEVER do them you say oh lets stand togeather and fix this but when it comes down to it, people will look up to you as they already have and you fail them epically, how so? Just by making your self serving posts here in the forums youve failed them as that means you talking about fixing things rather then doing it. We have the tools already to do any of the given suggestions here and we dont need mur to code anything for it to happen. Yrth suggested a PAL well its really easy to set something like that up, hell Ive being doing my own personal one since ive started playing MD watching people and recoding their actions its usually how I end up choosing people to come and work on project with me to actually have something happen in md. For a PAL to work just get a few freaking people in on it and put it up on a RPC item and there you go!

Oh I cant do this I cant do that, let me put it in very simple terms for all of you, Ive managed of all freaking people to cause and generate more things happening in md than some of the past would be RPCs for quite some time with little to NO TOOLS, if I can do it then anyone can.

It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.

[/Rant]

P.S. - You all suck

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

In a lot of ways your right, but then again over the past month quite a few good ideas I have seen posted in the forum that would actually be GOOD for the game have been shot down immediately, threads closed, etc.

The power to create and inspire is within the player's hands, yes, but for me in truth what hinders people from going forward with ideas is the attitude that what you do does not truly matter that leaves me personally unwilling to create or do something interesting. It gives me the thought of, "Why even bother?"

Well, for one, doing a role play quest would be fun, it would be interesting, but there's also a very good chance that about half of what I plan to do with the quest will get mocked, insulted, shot down, or generally disrupted in some way.

This does not encourage creativity, it limits it, and this is exactly why I have done nothing incredibly important in game for the past six months.

If you want people to be inspired, if you want the chain of inspiration to continue, then one has to inspire people to do something fun and new. I see no encouragement lately, and I see negative attitudes towards newbies that were not present when I first joined.

Perhaps it is that we, the veterans, are tired of many things or maybe it's that the quality of new players in general has declined, I cannot say. What I do know, however, is that it is OUR DUTY as veteran players to encourage creativity in new players and inspire them.

Even if you feel powerless to do something yourself, you can at least inspire others.

If you want change, let the ideas flow.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Jester]

Those same things have been said over and over and over and over... Veterans come in and say "oh, the players have all the power, lets make the game better!". Obviously this has not worked, or we wouldn't see these threads keep popping up. Something new has to be tried.

This is my idea: People keep complaining about tokens. How about starting now, people just stop using tokens? Not everyone will of course, but if enough people go and find creatures without tokens, preferably aged, we could start an area where tokens are simply not allowed. People would keep their tokened creatures, but use creatures that do not have tokens. Any thoughts? This could also apply to a story event created by players where combat is involved, such as a showdown between two groups, winner determines the next stage of the event.

[dst]

Ok, here's my rant ( I have so many ideas that are dying to be written that I might not be too coherent or jump from one idea to another but hey! this is a rant after all ):

MD dead? Hmm...nope, not really. MD is more or less how it was probably 2 years ago:lots of players which did NOTHING (except for maybe the monthly HC). But that was understandable. MD was still a new born.I remember tons of idlers at Willow's Shop with random rits (the ones I feared the most ) or with really easy ones (I loved the Santa rit back then). And that was about it...No quests, no allies, no nothing. But it still attracted me. It was a game free of rules(or they were so few they were not even worth mentioning). Where the hell in the world will you find that? It was a game where you had to learn by yourself (LHOs? Ha! I NEVER use the LHO button). SG? No! GGG? Hell no! It was FUN to chase players, to beat them, to discover things.Then the allies came along. Oh my! That was one great period:all the spying and plotting and suspicion...and I was part of that. And I never recall to RP in the way you are doing now. No! The feelings were genuine! I really hated the tree for not blooming for me! And since I usually hold grudges..oh well...
Then RPCs came along. At the beginning it was exciting and really fun. There were quests, there were new and amazing abilities.
Then, by the time of the second MD festival things changed...at least for me. Players changed. All of the sudden this new RP came along (or was it there but I did not see it? I wonder...and I really don't have an answer). At the beginning it was again, fun. But after a while I started to enjoy less and less watching others do it ( I never felt the need of doing**). It was too stiff. Too formal. Rules started to appear for RP! Rules for RP? Are you kidding me? Same as lessons on "How to be a better RP-er"....Are you insane? You can RP or not! You cannot learn how to RP. And the only rule I see for RP-ing is common sense (and honestly...it really lacks in MD).

From that point things changed 180 degrees. Sorry to say this but part of the blame is bared by some (and I say SOME not ALL) of the RPCs. They became arrogant and more and more demanding. I know some of them that thought the Earth will stop moving if they will quit MD. I am happy that Mur proved them wrong .
Then there were those small cells of players that were playing only amongst themselves. The players belonging to those cells became also arrogant (and if they had the support of an RPC...god helped us all...) and felt they were some kind of elite. Then SG came (or was it earlier) which in time improved a bit (see the mp5 rules) but I still see it as a plague even if at the beginning I supported it.When I saw what it generated I started to disobey the rules. Then GGG. Then tokens, then insanely strong crits and in the end the ultimate rits. RP changed also. From the innocent play between Yami, Wodin and MB we have now "professional" RP-ers...O_O. If you dare criticize their way of RP you're doomed.

So...let's brief things a bit (no particular order): MD has now:
-a place where noobs can train crits, get xp, stat grind
-a second place where you can stat grind (oh...do you remember how stat grinders were seen one year ago? if not, I should maybe remind you and maybe I should also find the topic I opened for it)
-almost perfect rituals (99% perfect)
-professional RP-ers
-cells of players (btw:when I say cell I do not mean ally or guild)
-<insert here all the other things I wanted to add but forgot - I will add them as I remember>

In the end we have one game full of bored players. It was bound to happen. Let's be honest:the first thing that a noob sees for the first time are crits, battles, stats and a nice little story that they don't understand. Then they found out about SG and GGG for the stats/crits and they meet some of the RP-ers. If they are decent they might be accepted in the exclusive RP-ers club. If they suck then they are accused of god moding or god knows what else. So noobs get bored and leave.
On the other hand we have the vets. And here there are 2 types:
-fighters: in time they managed to get the super rits. Stats are worthless to an mp5 so I doubt few are actually stat grinding. If they do then all I can do is laugh. As long as the tokens work as they are now no stats will help you defeat a good tokened rit. So fighters are bored (angiens were a good incentive for a while cause they offered something to do for the fighters but with GGG that was like taking candy from a baby).
-RP-er:I do believe they got bored also. It's quite difficult to explain my idea but I will try: let's say you are a werewolf. You do certain things:transform at full moon, rip some throats, shed and then get back to normal form. How long can you do that? 1 year? 2? You'll say that you all gather and talk. Talk about what? I see the same dialogues day after day after day. I see the same actions from RP-ers day after day after day (I will not give names cause it's irrelevant). Sorry but you all seem bored to me. And the proof? Well..the topic that generated this discussion.

MD is not dead! MD is boring. Because you don't have to work for things anymore. One of the reasons I believe the RPC concept failed is that they were given too much without them sweating for the rewards. Seems the illness is contagious. It spread to all MD.

I had a hope when kings were elected. Sorry but I was disappointed. One of them is busy with cough* training in different lands *cough*, one is busy with rl and he barely logs in, one in the end quit and one well...this one seems the most active of them and pretty involved (sometimes too involved if you ask me). Sorry kings...for the moment I am, as I said, disappointed and as you all know I am not afraid of speaking my mind. I still haven't lost my faith and I hope things will change.


I will stop cause I just spilled out lots of things. I have no patience of re-reading so this post might be, as I already announced, pretty stuffy and incoherent.

**If I dont RP doesn't mean I am bad at it as some of you accuse me. I simply don't like it so I don't do it. I am walking a straight line here. On the other hand there are the RP-ers that want to be both (actually 98% of them try it - if you want to be a true RP-er lose the crits! You all say that crits are for battles. Why do you have them? Why do you train them? You don't need crits to RP the flushing of a toilet) and fail miserably. It doesn't matter that they have one super rit that will pwn everyone in MD. If someone strips them of that one rit they are naked. They will not know where to buy a knator...


One last things: Granos, took you quite some time to figure that out . Stop plotting cause that fills up your buffers and other ideas (like the one you just issued) have troubles getting out .

[Lazarus]

MD is alive, the realm is alive, the principles, morals, characters, are alive. However, the thing that makes you think that MD is dead is the absence of activities and by the majority of the population of MD are all long time players if not veterans, and have experienced fun over the months/years like the Festivals and whatsoever, but now what? Do you mean if there's no fun, no MD? If a festival is happening now, then tomorrow it's gonna be over, what do you think you will feel? Back to being bored I bet. That's the thing most of you feel. I find MD boring when I was a newbie back then because it is not very graphical like Perfect World or WoW, but the thing that keeps me active since I started playing is the secrets of this game, the philosophy, the real life adaptation, the players, the art, creature fights, the mystery, the very unique concept, and most of all annoying someone if not everyone, but I'm not making myself a nuisance to MD anymore as I have future plans being developed at the moment, and whether of not MD will get "revived" as you have said, I will stay, and I will stay as long as I am enjoying this unique phenomenon.

Shallow minded people often value the absurd, they act and speak without thinking and without researching and not realizing the real life facts and issues as to why a certain thing is happening. So saying that MD is dead is terribly stupid. You just jump to conclusions and post such a stupid message and feel good about yourself thinking that you might have done a brilliant step to your self achievement but in fact you are being nothing more than being absurd and paranoid. Remember that it takes 42 muscles to frown, and only 3 muscles to pull the trigger of a Sniper Rifle.

PS: I just realize that this is a separate thread, and I'm talking to everyone.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Lazarus

[Orlando Gardiner]

MD is most certainly alive, rather call it a 'dip, of active players. and I agree with jester, at this state, only mur could bring change to this.


But was that not the whole problem? we rely to much on Mur, bringin pressure,
We should act on ourself intead of turning all our faces towards Mur and accept the impossible.

[Muratus del Mur]

My medicine for this ... if you cant unite them, separate them more. I think brutal separation on lands with motivation to fight in teams, one against the other, like torch,..actualy torch, but with higher stakes.

The unity of a group is given by the separation from the others. Some big important dude said that, i cant remember his mighty name.

To go with this, i would add a tincture of customization potion, to make you work and also see relusts for customizing your profile a lot more.

but ..but..... thoughts...i have plenty, always...remains to see when, how, ..motivation and the right time.

and please, stop suggesting to write for AL, it kills me... was i not clear enough that AL will be chaos if written just to be written and written BY players?? AL is written ABOUT players , not BY them, bit big difference.

MD birthday is comming soon..makes me think in big terms

I think its not only me that needs motivation, its most of all YOU that need it ...so lets find one for both of us, what should it be ..maybe we should seek outside md. To complicated to do mp8 stage, to few people, but maybe something else .... blak letters are still there, the most amazing puzzle i ever built....but ..no time to write them ....no motivation.....

please do not jump to help me, i am just speaking my thoughts loud,

let me be

Edited February 19, 2010 by Muratus del Mur
about player motivation

[Tarquinus]

I agree with Orlando. And let us not turn on one another, saying, "you are to blame..." I see some people in this thread failing to communicate. I see others attacking straw men. I see yet others harping on truths that are too uncomfortable for some players to admit, in my opinion a totally pointless exercise.

I will openly admit that I have not always been a very good influence on the game of MagicDuel; I freely confess to having been selfish and self-absorbed, interested primarily in entertaining myself rather than trying to work for the fun of others. This is not a confessional, like Awiiya's thread from the Festival of Pain, but a statement of fact. I doubt many others are willing to admit the facts as baldly, to examine what they might have done to harm the game and its community.

And I don't care. I still enjoy MagicDuel, I still have friends among its players, and I am very far from the point of despair. I still see more criticism of the state of affairs in this thread, despite its relocation, than discussion of how to "revive" MD. Must we really split hairs over semantics, for all love? There are those who are fearful, those who are bored, those who are frustrated and angry. So what?

What are you prepared to do to make it better? Surely the game provides some amount of fun to you, or you would no longer play, no?

[b]edited for clarity[/b]

Edited February 19, 2010 by Tarquinus

[Akasha]

Dst, i would add to that the big secret things that some players like to have, the separation from the game thru ym and other forums. That is what is killing new players. If you are not 'profi' you can't simply stay in the game; So all of you profi rp should stop ranting and look at yourself. Md is not an exclusiv rp game, nor one to fight and get stats and stats but one that mixes both.
Atm it is like in high school..groups that are outside of MD at first and where the plans are made and come to 'enlighten' the other ppl from the realm about what is hapening.
Also the paranoia around you, introduced from several players is ruing you, the players that curently rant.
Ranting is a problem..ppl ! stop living in what you dont have and what you would like, start living in what you have and build upon what it is something. Stop living in nothing is worth nor good and maybe light may come.

PS: did someone noticed that rants come from ''profi' rp;s? or their group? .. what can i say..in the end that profi rp ends...leaves nothing to do more and it simply end...it limits you

[phantasm]

*incoming shameless plug*

Quite a few of you have noticed, but many have not. I currently have a Progression Quest going on. Specific RPing has been happening over the past month involving different characters in different lands. It is an idea in the theory of the Shadow Principle, purely a fiction I created, and with the help of good people is being constructed. I can name at least two other people (who may not want to be named so names are left out) who have also started/about to start progression quests like this. Keep your eyes open in MD and I think you will see more goes on then what you think goes on.

[Firsanthalas]

[quote]PS: did someone noticed that rants come from ''profi' rp;s? or their group? .. what can i say..in the end that profi rp ends...leaves nothing to do more and it simply end...it limits you[/quote]

Guys! Can you seriously not see it? You just can't resist to take a pop at the 'others'. MD being divided? That is EXACTLY the problem. MD is broken down into little clans of friends and divisions between 'grinders' and 'RPrs'.
Yes, people do need to start doing more. Yes people can try to make things more interesting. BUT, how the hell can they, when there always seems to be someone that wants to jump up and down on them because they don't agree?

I've seen the dojo pulled cos people didn't like it, now we want the ggg pulled. I've seen quests condemned because we don't like 'story' quests or whatever bloody thing it happens to be.
I've seen people shot down for attempting to offer to help out.
Its going on ALL the time.
Division of lands? Half the bloody people in alliances in different lands are alts. How the hell can you divide them when its the same bloody people involved? How can you have Alliance A at odds with alliance B, when Johnny is in both of them? Then what?
I've seen conflict erupt WITHIN MD over matters OUTSIDE of it.
Without getting into a debate on RP and what is good or bad, it seems that some people are completely incapable of distinquishing me (Barry) from Firsanthalas. And it seems that this inability in general is the cause of a lot of problems to boot.

There ARE problems with MD that need to be resolved by MUR. There are ALSO problems that WE, as players can resolve.
EVERYONE is seeking to blame someone else, or find fault with one area or group. It is NOT that simple. Its a multifaceted problem. It won't be fixed overnight.

FACT: the AL has been dead since September.
FACT: it does not represent player actions. If that is not the intention, then perhaps something like Yrth's suggestion of a PAL should be looked at.
FACT: Combat does have serious issues and you can't get away from the fact that there is an issue with losses and stat loss for some.
FACT: Quests are a mess. I have a load of WPs to give out for quests and there are almost zero going on in Loreroot right now.
FACT: The torch competition in its current form is grossly unfair. If you want to have any contest between lands, then it has to be based on some principle of fairness. Right now it is not.

I'm not sure what you expect kings or anyone else to do right now to be honest. Lets talk about people whining about lack of tools and abilities shall we.
As king I can make a person a citizen of Loreroot. I also got a bank of WPs to distribute.
That is it. I get requests from people for various things, which I have no control over. Before the ring was given I got continuous requests for citizenship and even complaints as to why I had rejected their applications (applications to a form in the side panel that doesn't work and therefore never got seen let alone rejected).
It go so annoying that I asked to have an announcement made to say that kings couldn't make people citizens and didn't get the applications (as was the case at that time).
I may be king of a land, but I am only one person at the end of the day and there is only so much that I can do. Perhaps I have fallen down in some areas (I know of one thing I have not done for a certain person). I need other people to help to get things moving too. Right now it just seems to be extremely difficult if not impossible. There just seems to be a general malaise about the place.

Items. I have a list that I'll be sending to Mur later on. Personally, I think this is a total can of worms. Some people refuse to trade items, or if they do, want crazy prices. My personal opinion is that people are going to be unable to get hold of items they suggested after they are given out randomly. And then yours truly here is going to be listening to the whining afterwards.

I am personally demoralised. It even seems that even when I try to keep doing things that I am 'too involved' or something. If I do nothing, then I am lazy, if I do something, I'm too involved. What do I do?

This is not a 'poor me', this is simply how I feel and how I suspect many people here feel. There are a lot of people that are running quests or trying to be sociable in general in MD. But it just seems that people are all too quick to find fault with everyone else (and yes I'm sure I am guilty of that too).
People around here seem incredibly keen to jump on and point out the bad things. You never really see anyone applauding the good.

One final point.
Regardless of whether or not you want to go around fighting or RP, MD needs interaction. Even if its just a simple chat. I can walk about MD most of the time I am on and there is bog all chat and interaction. I say hello to people and nothing. I can paint someone's head green and get no response. I'm not going to say that is the grinders fault, because to be honest, its daft. I can talk to people anywhere, the problem is they ain't talking back.
There is currently talk of removing the GGG. Can I say simply that you seriously need to consider stuff like this VERY seriosusly. MD really really needs focal points. Places where you can go and expect to find people to talk to. Sanctuaries don't really fit the bill it seems. If you remove all the focal points, then you will really have a scattered and divided landscape. Every community has a focal point, it is part of what makes a community.
And I have to say that some people that speak a lot on this forum don't seem to actually say much of anything within MD proper. Just something to think about.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Firsanthalas

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Granos' date='18 February 2010 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1266530594' post='54704']
P.S. - You all suck
[/quote]
The kind of comment you just made, and I do get that it is supposed to be humor, is also a huge negative factor. You say we [b]all[/b] should be doing more things to better MD, but that is not true. On average I seem to be making a new quest every three months and the upcoming one has met some unfortunate delays. Worse even, the current discussion makes me want to postpone it even more because I seriously loathe the idea of my new quest to be considered an attempt at reviving MD inspired upon all these rants. I am also conscious of my own psyche, so we'll see which urge wins.

One related problem is that RPCs before promotion often did good things just because they wanted to do them, but afterward were obliged to keep producing. A simple writers block or disease or maybe a new potential spouse is all you need to be unable to deliver (to MD) and 'upset' the community. I make quests because I want to create something. Of course I like being rewarded and praised, but that is not and should never be the main reason.


PS this is not directed specifically at Granos, but his words did illustrate the problem best.

[cutler121]

I really wanted to stay away from this forum topic for a number of reasons but mostly because I get depressed when I talk about the "lack" of what MD seems to have lately. I personally don't see myself fitting into any of the major categories that people seem to be defining MD by --- RPers (I am really bad at RP) and stat grinders (this seems like mindless repetition and the few times I tried it I got so bored I had to take mini-vacations to want to do anything with MD).

I gave up on the MD fighting system when skill damage was introduced for having excessive losses. I understand it is my fault that I let people heal on my nutcracker and racked up 3K losses. (Which didn't ever give me a benefit) I even tried to reduce that and got it down to 2.4K losses but since GGG does NOT give victories in general (only against MP2s) even the mindless stat grinding doesn't help. Oh well, as they say no good deed goes unpunished. I still think a WishPoint shop item balancing out wins/losses would be a good addition (I had to add in something for people to complain about hehehehe).


At the same time, I really enjoy participating in other peoples quests and I also enjoy making quests and helping others make puzzles and quests.

I fully understand how people feel about being ignored and made to seem like their actions are meaningless. For the most part I just ignore people ignoring me and go and do something I think is interesting.

Here are some examples:

1) The astral plane.

This was initially just a way to make quests more interesting and interactive since there were so few locations which could be interacted with in MD. Now it has an inventory with items which can be used, combined, sold, bought, traded and some new interactive games will soon be linked in with this as well.

2) Fishing System

On the first of next month I will be releasing a fishing system for MD which will allow people to use different fishing poles, and lures (19 different ones at present with all new artwork) to play a new logic game I made based on minesweeper but with some new twists. For those of you who would like to try it out before then, there is already a way to play it if you go and find some materials which could be combined into a fishing pole. This will be released as a fishing tournament for people to compete in and will have a bunch of prizes.

3) The impossible maze

In coordination with Grido we have made a brand new labyrinth maze in the same location as the MDA labyrinth in the astral plane. This maze will open in the middle of next month (see Gridos announcement) and will have 3 WPs as quest rewards. It is a really tricky maze!

4) The anti-maze

I released this puzzle this week as a new logic interactive game for people to play at the stairs to the champions challenge. From what I have heard most people like it although it has given a few people actual headaches. I liked making this puzzle since it made me think in a way that our brains don't seem to like to work which made my brain hurt as well.

5) The jigsaw puzzle

I released this interactive puzzle a month or two ago at the berserkers challenge location in necro as a fun game for people to try. I actually made this puzzle at the request of an MD player who wanted to make a quest with a treasure chest you had to solve the puzzle to open. Although this quest hasn't happened yet, it might soon be released as a Loreroot quest since I just heard from that person about completing the quest and I have almost everything I need now to help him pull it all together.

6) The MD Tarot Card Game

I made this card game a few months ago with the major tarot arcana cards represented by MD players, but it wasn't actually that fun to play so I never released it. But another person just asked me about making a similar type card game for MD and when I receive the card images and stats, this game will be released as well now that there is a better play system than what I had initially come up with.

7) Puzzle Quest #2

I made Puzzle Quest #1 almost a year ago now and it was supposed to be very difficult. Only 2 people solved the first one and I know lots of people made it to the 3-4th leg. I got a little bit depressed with this at the time since an RPC lied to me about rewarding WPs for the winners, but it worked out in the end. I have most of the Puzzle Quest #2 pulled together and will be releasing that sometime in the next month or so.

8) Loreroot Houses

Since I am currently building a RL house for my pregnant wife to have a nice place to nest after giving birth to our child, I thought it would be nice to let others have that same experience in MD by designing and building their own houses in the astral plane where I can add any new content / locations I want. This project turned out really well with 2 of the 4 houses being complete and the other 2 are just waiting on some more scene images to be drawn. I really enjoyed making private chats for the houses with integrated doorbells to let people enter the houses and have a place to make your home here in MD. I have had MANY requests from other people to do the same in other locations and that is something I will move forward with when these four houses are all complete.

9) The new GG town / university

This is a concept the king of GG had which we will be developing over the next months. At present the only scene which has been released publicly is the Mt Kethella overlook which I think turned out really nice. There are plans to have a full university, town with shops and public spaces, homes and work sites. This town hopefully will have some really interesting interactive locations as well as maybe be a site for study and learning within MD for both teachers and students. The old MD university was a nice idea but it never had a real location to let people go be part of the university community and hopefully some nice new scenes with classrooms and whiteboards will move this "semi-dead" idea back to a more active state.



So why did I just detail some of the things I have been working on the last few months? Well I have a lot of respect for Mur and what he has created in MD, but he is only one man. There is enough freedom in the way MD is put together to make it into anything we as members of the community want it to be. I agree with many of the points people have made about what is wrong with MD. So I just settled down in a sanctuary where I wouldn't be hit with stat damage constantly and worked on things I was interested in. Maybe you don't have programming experience or know how to make a quest, but I am sure there is something you enjoy / are good at. Why not just jump in and do it.

I personally will be happy to work with / pay artists who want to make new scenes to expand MD. I have like 30-40 scenes in mind already and many others already drawn just waiting to be implemented.

I will be happy to help anyone who has a quest / puzzle idea. There are lots of WP rewards sitting idle with the Kings and if you have a creative idea want to make something new in MD, come talk to me about making it happen, I know the Kings would all be happy to support anyone who has an interesting quest idea.

So if you want to do something my advice is to just do it. I have been impressed by a bunch of people doing quests lately ladytwin, Bloodprince, MasterB, Burns, tara, Granos, Indyra, and others I can't seem to remember at the moment.

I guess my point is just because Mur doesn't seem to be doing anything new with MD and has abandoned a bunch of project while only semi-complete, that doesn't mean that we as members of the MD community can't do stuff ourselves.

It would be great if the AL were resurrected, but look at Awiiya's Oak tree stories, there will soon be more there than the whole AL combined.

It would be great if the tribunal were finished and not just a ghost land.

It would be great if ... fill in your own pet peeves.

So how about this as a direction to head, if you want to wait for Mur to complete everything and get his batteries recharged, fine, but in the meantime why not do something in MD yourself?

I would be happy to help.

Cheers,

Cutler

[Udgard]

+1 to what cutler said.

Yes, MD has problems, at a quick glance it might be boring blah blah blah.

But remember, what made MD so interesting is how the players inside can contribute to the game. Have you seen what cutler has done? He is one person, but look at how many things he has added to MD with 'just' the astral plane alone. If everyone tries to do what they can by [b]CREATING [/b]something instead of finding ways to [b]TAKE DOWN[/b] something, MD will be too full of interesting things that you won't have enough time to enjoy all of it.

edit: fixed typo

Edited February 20, 2010 by Udgard