Stop Ggg

[No one]

GGG kind of gathering is not good for the game. I want it closed.
There is no more respect in this game. Honor became an aberration.




Please (mod name here), if you have the link for what GGG should do, attach it to this post.

What GGG was intended to do and what it does is different and it went for bad.
To keep the spoilers to minimum, I will just say that it is used for:
- gaining status points
- gaining wins
- getting experience

You will say that this is the point. NO, this is the point of the entire game. If you do this in an organized fashion, the ones that will be able to stay longer will be able to (ab)use more this possibilities.

AND IT IS WRONG.


You all say that some players are overpowered, some creatures do too much damage.
YES, you allowed some to over (ab)use this GGG to achieve all that.

All of the above gains should be done through hard work.

All of the players should be attack-able at all available locations with whatever anyone desires.
That should be the first rule.

There is a limit to attack a player within no less then 8 minute with a reason: if one does not like to be attacked, to be able to leave or hide or to be able to set a defense.

This is the most important rule that governed MD for a long time and should be imposed again.

Also, any use of spells to send someone away because they don't like the attacks is an aberration and should be punished.
That should be as a second rule.

As an implication of those rules, any gathering wherever it may be is attack-able.
Any gathering for "ggg kind of reasons" within closed location should be forbidden. (This cannot be achieved at this time but it should be enforced)

That way, any player that gets stats to beat you deserves your respect.
Any player that can beat your defense deserves that honor of acknowledging that is better.

I hate ggg grinders that gained HUGE amounts of stats for nothing, no effort what so ever.

Today MRD said that this game is no longer fun
Today MR Holy One said that it is no longer fun.

Lets make it fun again.
Lets make a win be a really good win and not a fake.

[redneck]

same for combo grinders that use nothing but combo rits to gain stats ive did it soem but ppl like czez,MRA and MRHO do it all the time im in on this one with no one lets destroy the ggg

[Sparrhawk]

I have never judged the GGG harshly as I used it,
But myself I do not use it anymore not even for the ease of geting wins.
However the thing I think about the ggg is its the one public place where
someone really weak can go and boost themselves up a bit. I know it is
taken to extreme but that is people thinking they still cant compete?
maybe they dont know of rituals or something I dont know. What I do know
is that IF the GGG is closed and ggg style training banned, it wont
change anything for those who want to train they will continue their
small training circles getting themselves insanely strong without a
chance for just anyone to join them making it elitest. And I assume if
that happened (ggg being banned) alot would give up on the fighting
altogether maybe that would help in terms of RP around MD but who knows.
I guess what I am basically saying is you cant just turn off the GGG and
then expect like magic all mp5s will go ohwell lets sit at GoE all day
and have the crap kicked out of us. Dont get me wrong I dont like it
used to excess but you have to think of what happens after you get your way

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='No one' date='03 June 2010 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1275598475' post='60910']

You all say that some players are overpowered, some creatures do too much damage.
YES, you allowed some to over (ab)use this GGG to achieve all that.

[/quote]

Umm... the ones that have huge stats had them befor the GGG
they used bugs and breaking the rules to get them
they were not punished for this.

Now with regards GGG well if people decide to gater and train
that is there choice not your's you dont like it thuff

This is a game were one has the freedom to do prety much what they want
within limits and well so far GGG has not broken that limit from what i can see.

If you dont like GGG then dont go there it is that simple.
i dont care if it is closed down or not i dont use it often
but then if you are going to start this grinding complains lest go a step further
reset all account how about that

[dst]

Why just the accounts? Why not the entire MD?
They have ways of dealing with the GGG offenders. So why should I not be permitted to stay where I like?


I have obeyed the rules of GGG. I have not attacked players in there. I have always announced that I am not set.But today I was accused that "I ALWAYS break rits" in GGG. Why should I keep respecting the rules since you already accused me?


@Yrth
You say:
[quote]Now with regards GGG well if people decide to gater and train
that is there choice not your's you dont like it thuff[/quote]
Well then I should not be punished for attacking them.I am training also, right?

[quote]his is a game were one has the freedom to do prety much what they want
within limits and well so far GGG has not broken that limit from what i can see.[/quote]
The same thing applies to me. I am free to do pretty much everything. Why am I being punished for attacking players in a scene in the game?

[quote]if you are going to start this grinding complains lest go a step further
reset all account how about that [/quote]
I have complaints regarding RP. Let's remove the chat in MD. What about it?


I am too tired right now to rant about this. Maybe tomorrow...

Edited June 3, 2010 by dst

[phantasm]

in regards to DST. She has NEVER as far as I have helped run the GGG, broken the GGG rules. Only recently was the time to be set added to the rules. Even then she left before the time was up. She has never been fond of the GGG, but has never had aggressions twards it besides chat.

As to the rest of these GGG complainers lets look at the list.

No One - Ancient Veteran who can at any time fairly well dominate all MP5s who aren't ancients
Burns - Ancient Veteran who can at any time dominate most ALL mp5's should he chose too
Redneck - Veteran who used the GGG, gained huge stats, then turned against it and now whines.

See a pattern here? Most all people who are "against the GGG" are old veterans who have an overwhelming advantage over most of their class. I remember quite well when Burns went around attacking anything that moved and destroyed it for fun. Redneck is much the same. No One is one of the few who protest who I can say usually give others a fair chance.

I see the same old thing. When I was a noob myself it was Willows. Then the secret GGG came along and people were more then willing to power grind. Soon as it goes public "oh no its a bad thing lets ruin it".

Thats all for now I'm sure I'll add more later

[Kyphis the Bard]

I agree that the GGG has been detrimental to the game.

It removes players from other locations, making the place seem more barren.
It encourages Grinders, who slaughter anyone who hasn't been playing very long.
And, it even has a rule saying to keep RP to a minimum, so there is very little social interaction other than announcing bursts.

HOWEVER.

Because it has been around for so long, it is already too late to remove it.
I do use the GGG, but I do not use it for stat grinding (anyone who knows me knows I only sacc creatures with no wins or experience). While most people do use it for stat grinding, there are also people who use it to genuinely train their creatures.
I spend very little time there, basically just when I get close to the cap or close to maxing a creature. And I know a few (not many) other players do the same.

I also do not think that banning gatherings like the GGG will improve the atmosphere of the game, be easily enforced, or WORK at all.
What I think WILL work, and will not detract from MD, is to cap the amount of stats a creature can give you when sacced. Something low like up to 10 higher than its minimum sacc reward should do it.

Because a lot of people go to the GGG purely to grind stats, most of them will not bother (especially when normal combat will give FAR better stats, anyway)
This doesn't prevent Grinding by any means, if you trained say 6 archers at once you would still get 60 attack plus their base reward each time, but instead of taking weeks the process would take months or even years, when you could get the same sort of stat increase in one day of real training.

[phantasm]

phantasm: manda gotta do it right, and also silencing him over that would eb a MD offense
redneck: <Silence spell> Manda
redneck:
No one: so, that means that I will try to stop GGG for today
[Spell]: Manda is unable to speak (151251)
No one: if you want to play here ... come tomorrow
*Burns*: redneck, that's your last warning about silence
No one: sorry for the inconvenience
redneck: wow burns really

Only to further the case.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Chewett

[redneck]

phantasm half of MD uses the ggg that leaves us no one to trian on^^

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='phantasm' date='03 June 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1275604256' post='60915']
As to the rest of these GGG complainers lets look at the list.

No One - Ancient Veteran who can at any time fairly well dominate all MP5s who aren't ancients
Burns - Ancient Veteran who can at any time dominate most ALL mp5's should he chose too
Redneck - Veteran who used the GGG, gained huge stats, then turned against it and now whines.

See a pattern here? Most all people who are "against the GGG" are old veterans who have an overwhelming advantage over most of their class. I remember quite well when Burns went around attacking anything that moved and destroyed it for fun. Redneck is much the same. No One is one of the few who protest who I can say usually give others a fair chance.
[/quote]
a) I am against the GGG. Not as openly as others, but I'm still against it. All three of the people you listed, and even you, phantasm, can beat me in a fight.
b) Burns/redneck attacking people for fun? Sure, isn't that the point of a GAME? To have FUN? Besides, fun may be one reason, but it is not the only one. Or do you spend too much time in the GGG to remember what the rewards for combat are? Burns is leader of GG alliance because of attacking other alliance members for loyalty (may not be the only method, but it's definitely one).

When did it become wrong to enjoy ACTUALLY battling people? Can somebody please fill me in?

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' date='04 June 2010 - 12:40 AM' timestamp='1275604842' post='60917']
Because it has been around for so long, it is already too late to remove it.
[/quote]
The dojo was around for months at least and it died to. I'm not an expert on the dojo subject, but what it looked like to me is that several people were doing a lot of work for the dojo and eventually this became a burden carried by too few people. The success of the GGG mainly depends on how many people are enforcing the GGG rules and to what lengths they will go. I don't think there's that many of them and I doubt they'll be convinced through a forum topic. If anything these recurring threads rally support to the GGG and issue caution to it's captains... but to say that it is impossible to remove it, that almost sounds like a challenge.

[awiiya]

I am against GGG, and... I am about as weak as an old mp5 can be.

GGG is boring. Where is the excitement?

Awi

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Kafuuka' date='04 June 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1275607191' post='60921']
The dojo was around for months at least and it died to. I'm not an expert on the dojo subject, but what it looked like to me is that several people were doing a lot of work for the dojo and eventually this became a burden carried by too few people. The success of the GGG mainly depends on how many people are enforcing the GGG rules and to what lengths they will go. I don't think there's that many of them and I doubt they'll be convinced through a forum topic. If anything these recurring threads rally support to the GGG and issue caution to it's captains... but to say that it is impossible to remove it, that almost sounds like a challenge.
[/quote]
By "to late" I don't mean it is impossible. Look at the other things I said.

What I mean was that the damage had already been done in terms of grinding (its been around for what, a year and a half now?), and far to many people know how to do it for it to be possible to prevent them from useing this form of training in small groups (say, two people) without Mur himself intervening.

Sure, it is possible to prevent the GGG from existing. But any method you could use WILL only harm the WHOLE of MD.
The only viable solution is to make it un-worthwhile to the majority of people who use it: Grinders.
There are lots of ways of going about that, however so far in this topic I have not seen any other suggestions. It's all very well to point out a problem, but if you can't suggest a solution that isn't worse, what good do you do?

[Metal Bunny]

Uh, a quick reminder to Yrthilian and others.

And I am pretty sure I am one of the very, very few left who did it this particular way, but:

I gained my stats the hard way, by attacking other mp5 (well over a year ago now at willow's shop, when it was still a gathering place).
Others did abuse certain ways, such as when there was no max heat and the skills per battle gained were tremendously high.

I didn't.


As for what I think ggg did to the game; well, it is a bit late and others have given similar motivations and arguments as mine, so I'll only say that it is indeed more detrimental to the game than benificial.

Primarily however, since grinders can grind anywhere ¬_¬ I did, I hunted all of Marind Bell and No Man's land for prey, just to try and be the 2nd person to get 1k in att stats (which I was ), as I was trying to race BigC

[Fyrd Argentus]

GGG might be the worst thing to happen to MD, but all you multi-year veterans have failed to provide an alternative. Right now all a new mp5 can do for combat is go to GOE and get thrashed by angiens and drachs on steroids, wander around the empty lands, or go to GGG. It took me 3 weeks to find 180 victories outside of GGG - that's fewer than 10 per day.

If you ancient whiners would create something worth doing instead of trying to tear down the only thing left, we wouldn't think you're such ####'s.

I tried to create an alternative - and got no support. Burns is at least trying, I give him that, but fight club is just as artificial as GGG. What have the rest of you done to keep MD alive, rather than tear it down?

Edited June 4, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Didn't I say exactly the same thing a few months ago? I could have sworn I did....

Oh wait. I did. And oh wait. I got flamed and told to shut up, and got accused of a bunch of stuff.

[Pipstickz]

Fenrir - You said it wrong, and at the wrong time.

Fyrd - You blame the vets for giving no alternative to GGG. There is a very simple one; learn to fight. Why should the vets just give you stuff? Give people a reason to help you.

Everybody else - Still waiting for an answer. See my post above if you've forgotten >>

[Fyrd Argentus]

No, I blame certain vets for trying to tear down GGG and put nothing in its place. I am not asking to be given anything but will stand up to the negativity these certain people represent.

Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed, there is nothing a new mp5 can do against an ancient veteran without their cooperation, without spending a fortune on tokens. "Learn to fight" - what bs. Quit with the brainwashed mantra.

How can you guys be worried about 100-day-old characters having 1K attack when the current disruptor of GGG has rituals doing 69K damage x6 x6 each round?

[Correction: the lead creature had 68K "target all" strikes, the other 5 did have lesser attacks. My aimed hit with max ve boost, which should have done about 10K damage, did -- you guessed it -- 1 point damage, and we all know why. "Learn to fight", ha! Learn to run, you meant, as I see in your posts below.]

Edited June 4, 2010 by Fyrd Argentus

[Poppi Chullo]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='03 June 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1275606126' post='60920']
When did it become wrong to enjoy ACTUALLY battling people? Can somebody please fill me in?
[/quote]


Mmm..Maybe you mean to enjoy ACTUALLY Slaughtering people?

The fresh MP5 and All Fresh MP Lvl not enjoying that Pip,that's why they need a training,if thats mean always be killed by u all fancy vets over and over will teach them how to fight properly and improve their stats,thats totally wrong..
Wheres the "learning" part if they even not have any living creatures in every steps they make all over the realm?

Will You the all most honour vet will give them a chance? which i doubt that...

[Pipstickz]

New MP5 -> Average MP5 -> Veteran MP5

Group A of New MP5s come in, and get beaten up for a while by the older MP5. Then Group B of New MP5 come in, which pushes Group A into the "average" slot, because they now have someone to attack. The cycle continues.

Sanctuaries are there for a reason as well. How many people do you think actually USE sanctuaries? Why SHOULD anybody use them when they could be at GGG farming wins instead of just sitting there waiting for the regen timer?

Back when there was no GGG, new MP5s got the hang of defending themselves well enough, but now that there's GGG, again, why should they?

You, Poppi, are a perfect example. You've used your privilege to create alts well, because you've had a few, and over time, you've learned quite a bit, right? Does it really matter if you can't beat a few vets? Avoid them. It's not hard. At worst, you get a few losses and have to wait for regen, or use free credits, or ask your protector for a heal.

[BFH]

Apart from the fact I don't like the idea of GGG closed. Imagine new Mp5 trying to fight veterans that already have tons of stats.

They don't even cause little damage to veterans, not to mention the fact that many veterans have creatures that can defeat them with one hit, so

I don't see the point of eliminating the opportunity that at least give them the chance of gaining some stats.



That's not the only problem, anyone think in the impression this cause to new players? One example?

Player Limethunder (45 days old in game) was attacked and totally destroyed while he is idle in GGG. He tells after he awake "i have no def rits though

and most creatures dead or near to" -- "alright i'm off to cower around sanctuaries for a few days regen some crits"

do you guys think this cause a good impression to this player?





Please if you want to protest find a good way to do so, but [color="#ff0000"]killing[/color] and [color="#ff0000"]massacring[/color] players is [size="4"][color="#ff0000"]NOT[/color][/size] the solution.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='bfh lighthing' date='03 June 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1275620347' post='60944']
Imagine new Mp5 trying to fight veterans that already have tons of stats.
[/quote]
The new MP5 should maybe try to hit the vets a few times and lose, then stop trying to fight them. Why would they keep attacking? Also, again, before GGG, new MP5s got along well enough.

[quote name='bfh lighthing' date='03 June 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1275620347' post='60944']
That's not the only problem, anyone think in the impression this cause to new players? One example?

Player Limethunder (45 days old in game) was attacked and totally destroyed while he is idle in GGG. He tells after he awake "i have no def rits though

and most creatures dead or near to" -- "alright i'm off to cower around sanctuaries for a few days regen some crits"

do you guys think this cause a good impression to this player?
[/quote]
Lime Thunder was awake while No one was there attacking people, and they were talking in chat. I remember specifically that he said something like "You should talk to your victims more often. It makes them feel special." This is only one quote (the one that I remember >>)

[Manda]

GGG good truth the help too much the players, also get there because in one day (mp5) i was close to skill damage ..... I at mp5 know how to fight already investigating the majority of creatures, but I really can not win against 6 dragons, 6 angels, 6 BP full of tokens and that its owner has 7000 + ATK or df,
in Fight Club you get good things, but come the abuses and history repeats itself ....
if you dont like GGG, well, do this encourage people as Fyrd argentus in races
Cutler creature card game and a ton of things, yoshi memories, you dont need to give wp if you dont want
and yes new player interesting in fight mechanism but he c he cant win he borred and ops no more player

[Poppi Chullo]

Pip..I'ts not about me,u dont have to tell me all those thingy..Its for them who "need"

I was hoping u'll answer my question but not in fact.
I'm trying to get u a picture here..What all u gentlements (and ladies) try to do now will affecting the Game widely.

1. U'll be filterizing the newbies on high lvl(especially MP5),which newbies i'm talking about isnt an alt,goes to their tired point for being target sack and may start the process to create an alt (thats if they'll still have a passion for the game),they start smoothly and train hard at maximum MP4Lvl,u cant do anything to stop the Mp3 and Mp4 to train "ala"GGG, Unless of course u all being over acting and use alt in lower MP to bullying them (Again).
So basiclly there will be another GGG but not for MP5 (And u better pray they will dare enough for jump to MP5)

2. For all the "fast lane" newbies which jump to every level without prepare and a knowledge,the MP5 lvl that u said will hit them for a while until the next cycle (dont know how long or probably never) come is the end of the game,and the closing word from them is "Quit". So the future MD will be full of MP3 and MP4 alts that train Super hard and not deciding to jump for anonymous time and also of course u all...which i mean "you all" the MP5.

So its very hard to make ur dream come true,unless Mur him self set the new rules about gathering and training,which is so so legal for me..

Edited June 4, 2010 by Poppitz Resurrection

[BFH]

Fortunately i have the evidence of what he told Pipstick.

[quote] "i have no def rits though and most creatures dead or near to"[/quote]

(check the pic)

[quote]"alright i'm off to cower around sanctuaries for a few days regen some rits" [/quote]

I don't have pic but you can ask Limethunder or any of the presents.

[quote]"You should talk to your victims more often. It makes them feel special.[/quote]

That also prove my point do you think No one cause good impression over him?

He felt massacred and killed, so again that's [color="#ff0000"][size="4"]NOT[/size] [/color]the solution.

Edited June 4, 2010 by bfh lighthing