Alt Abuse?

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

I'm not sure if i'm totally wrong here or what, but something struck me as odd on the wp logs.

Mainly, 3 MR items have been created with WPs from the BPG and via Udgard. This was done on 3 different accounts and refers to log numbers: 549, 550 and 625 - two of these are obviously alts, the third I don't know but would assume so. These 3 items have ended up on a single account of these 3. It appears as if this is alt abuse of the BPG.

Thoughts?

Z

[Shadowseeker]

In case anyone wonders about specific infos:

Alcarohtar Broken Pattern Puzzle 625 N/A Yes Details For
creating the item MR Knight s Crown by Udgard 22/04/10 15:38:19
Araton Broken Pattern Puzzle 550 N/A Yes Details For
creating the item MR Knight s Ring by Udgard 15/02/10 14:04:28
Alyon Broken Pattern Puzzle 549 N/A Yes Details For
creating the item MR Knight s Sword by Udgard 14/02/10 15:15:15
MRAlyon Broken Pattern Puzzle 548 N/A No Details 14/02/10 14:27:12

Interesting how the main keeps his unused WP. To me, it sounds a lot like blatant alt abuse in a manner that shouldn't be tolerated...although I have to say I am surprised Udgard agreed to make 3 items from 3 different accounts, while each created item was designed for someone else.

Sidenote, to Alyon:
I know you want to be a knight. But no Alyon, your action(s) will not earn you my flag.

[Firsanthalas]

Well it is effectively giving WPs from alts to your main account really isn't it? I mean you are getting the benefit of something that required the WP, like using a WP to mutate a joker and then trading it to the main account. That would be just the same really wouldn't it?

[Chewett]

Wow, So blantely abusive

I wonder what MRAlyon says, "oh its not alt abuse blah blah blah"

Mur HAS to do something or at least say something about alt abuse.

I would take him to court... But it seems that the court has shut down, Considering that one trial has went on for nearly two months.

[Udgard]

For confirmation, in indeed was 3 alts of Alyon.

I had promised to make items for the MRs for a while back then, and frankly, I was surprised to find out the WPs was from 3 different alts instead of from 1 account (I couldn't remember clearly, I think I asked to use at least one WP from the main but can't remember the answer - probably no WP on the main at the time). I had to reconsider for a while back then, but ultimately I decided to let it go for two reasons: 1) the WP was earned via knowledge on how to solve the broken pattern gazeebo, and 2) the items was for the MRs instead of for an individual. So I let is slide, considering it as a kind of legacy of a great role played by a group of people.

[Shadowseeker]

Still, saying so..then shouldnt the item name be MR's Sword, etc, instead of MR's KNIGHT?

Because he's the only one apparently trying to get that role..

[dst]

Alt abuse? Are you kidding? It insults my intelligence!!

If nothing is done about this I swear I will solve BP with all my alts and buy the bestiary and move it to my main.


I am really speechless about this!

[Chewett]

So, am i allowed to get my 50 alts all that WP and then use them all for items?

Surely put like that its stupidity?

[MRAlyon]

hey all... the accounts: Alcarohtar, Araton and Alyon are my alts...
I have gained wishpoints from Broken Pattern Puzzle...
I have asked to Udgard if I could do the 3 items with wishpoints of my alts and he told me that having gained them from solving broken patter puzzle, that is different for all my three alts, it's a different thing to gain them from one quest of a player that is the same for all accounts...
I don't think to have done a bad thing because before to do this I have asked if this was possible with my 3 alts... Udgard asked me how I have gained the wishpoints on my alts, then he told me yes so I have gained all materials for doing them...

Thanks
MRAlyon

[dst]

There is no problem with creating items WITH WPs from alts and FOR alts as long as they stay on the alts.
But you moved them to the main account. And you know pretty damn well that is not allowed.


Don't blame Udgard. He only did his job (pretty fast considering his usual delays). Be a man and at least admit it! Don't be a coward!

[Rendril]

The problem is not that you gained wish points for your alts or that you had them create items. The abuse is because you then sent the items to your main account.


Edit: Seems dst already said the same

Edited July 16, 2010 by Rendril

[MRAlyon]

I'm not a coward... yes I have trasfered them on my main account...however I really didn't know that I couldn't transfer items on my main... I haven't gained benefits from it (only 3 items - 3 simbols)...
I haven't blamed Udgard, I only reported how the things are gone...

Edited July 16, 2010 by MRAlyon

[dst]

Then, this means I can get the bestiary on my alts and then have it on my main. Cause 5 pages are not enough for me.

What do you think? Is it ok if I do it?

[Rendril]

Gaining items is the benefit (quite a big one actually, considering what they can cost)

I think it is clear there was a misunderstanding on behalf of MRAlyon in his discussion with Udgard, but that doesn't make it an excuse to abuse alts.

[MRAlyon]

I don't know if you can or not... if I have wrong I'm the first person, that after a reasoning, understand that I have done a bad thing and the next thing that I would do is excuse for my actions... I think all people can doing something of wrong, the important is undestand why you have wrong...

I'm really really sorry, but for the next two days I can't read and reply to any posts, because I'm away...
Please understand me...

Thanks
MRAlyon

Edited July 17, 2010 by dst

[MRHoly One]

[quote name='dst' date='16 July 2010 - 10:45 PM' timestamp='1279320344' post='64043']
Then, this means I can get the bestiary on my alts and then have it on my main. Cause 5 pages are not enough for me.

What do you think? Is it ok if I do it?
[/quote]


Since i do not have the bestiary feature, i am not familiar with it other than what i read in the announcements. BUT, i believe the benefits from it far out weighs the 3 items that MRAlyon gained for his WP's. Which is ONLY a few imaginary items that he would most likely NEVER trade since they are MR items.

OK with that said, i am not taking sides in this whats so ever. As a matter of fact, i think that it was a waste of 3 WP's that are such precious commodities (to me at least). When he could have used them for spells to gain an edge in the realm. Thats just what i would have done.

So in my eyes he lost out, didnt gain anything.

Edited July 17, 2010 by MRHoly One

[dst]

The bestiary is also an item. You can gain it by spending one WP. Why would it be different then any other item?

It's not about gaining or losing. It's about the fact that he did something wrong. Hey! You want to abuse the system? Do it! But admit it when you are caught. Don't come with lame excuses like:it's not a big deal, he lost more then he gain etc.



Personal note:
To be honest, I am not bothered so much by the actual abuse. I am extremely angry that he considers us stupid and does things like this in the plain sight AND comes with lame excuses.

[Kafuuka]

[quote name='MRHoly One' date='17 July 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1279403164' post='64087']
Since i do not have the bestiary feature, i am not familiar with it other than what i read in the announcements. BUT, i believe the benefits from it far out weighs the 3 items that MRAlyon gained for his WP's. Which is ONLY a few imaginary items that he would most likely NEVER trade since they are MR items.

OK with that said, i am not taking sides in this whats so ever. As a matter of fact, i think that it was a waste of 3 WP's that are such precious commodities (to me at least). When he could have used them for spells to gain an edge in the realm. Thats just what i would have done.

So in my eyes he lost out, didnt gain anything.
[/quote]
Vagueness.. you realize that there is no definite cut off point? If you accept three items, certainly you will accept four items? n => n + 1; complete induction => we should accept people to farm infinite alts for infinite items. (Or max int, i'm certain there's some limit to the uid variable.)

Also the point is that it was BPG, Those 3 WPs on alts are not a rare and precious commodity. Even with the random starting tile, there's only 36 variations to the puzzle, each one solved by the exact same method/algorithm, which can be made into a short script that prints out the combinations in a second.


The only counter to this is that Mur, [b]probably[/b], does not consider a total of 3 items a threat to balance and has some (imo) arbitrary cut off point which has yet to be reached. Of course the best way to reach that point is to accept BPG farming as fair behavior, set a precedent and all get us a dozen of bestiaries like dst suggested.

[notxasj]

Trying to pretend that you're ignorant is not an excuse. He has been in the game for over a year and should easily know that using alts in that manner would be alt abuse. I've only been here for 6 months and am able to know that you don't use alts to benefit the main account. I don't think it matters how beneficial someone else thinks the items that he spent his WP's on are. That isn't the issue. It should be obvious to anyone that he obtained items on his main account that he was not able to do without the use of his alts. If you have enough intelligence to come up with the idea of solving a puzzle to earn a WP on multiple alts and to have each alt use the WP to create an item you want your main account to have, then you would have enough intelligence to know that what you are planning to do is wrong.

[dst]

So any updates about this?

Or should I start dusting my alts?

[dst]

So...no updates...
Well there are 2 alternatives:
1)Take action (we don't need Mur for this) and here the kings are the ones to step in.
Yrth, the MRs are GGers. I believe it's you the one who has to start this (or to continue since someone else started it).
2)We forget about it and I am free to gain my bestiaries.

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

well from the recent comments on Sasha's thread about item swapping it looks like it isnt abuse O.o if it isn't..I will be joining you with that Dst, as I would imagine will many others capable of it.

Z

[Pipstickz]

In any case, after almost an hour (if not that or more) of arguing, I convinced Alyon to remove his alt from the MR Fraternity without resorting to having it kicked.

PS:
[quote name='Muratus del Mur' date='01 August 2010 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1280681574' post='64913']
At this point, even if it bothers me, keeping alts online to get items when i give them out is not a crime since it is me that is giving the items and not you taking them.
[/quote]
Udgard did not give those items free. I believe that says enough.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Pipstickz

[Muratus del Mur]

it is not the case, yet, to consider this alt abuse.even if tehnically someone could get 1000 bestiary items, only very few could actually get over 5 or 10, and not all those plan to do that. If bestiary items will become a problem, i can always limit the number of bestiaries an account can use to max 3 for example. Dont forget that to get that bestiary item that account needed to get a wp. It is however "illegal" to award a wp on an other acc other than the one earning it.

If you notice this to go too wild and abused pls let me know. So far i see this as a limited opportunity and not a massive abuse