New Ggg?

[dst]

Who cares? I think lots of people, based on the response this topic got. You wrote how many? 3 posts already?

[pipster]

dst whats your problem? are you against the sparing grounds? this is the same dam thing as a GGG, so whats the deal here? i think i know what it is, you hate the person who made it so now it is your little crusade against them ! honestly i see it as being very petty.

[Malaikat Maut]

The sparring ground rules don't apply to DST, as she's MP5.

[pipster]

[quote name='Malaikat Maut' timestamp='1290117130' post='72506']
The sparring ground rules don't apply to DST, as she's MP5.
[/quote]


maut i think you read my post wrong. my point is shes all against a GGG because it has rules to it, well the sparing grounds have rules to it so why not the big yelping over that? i could careless if SG only apply to level 3,4 it is still a location with rules to fighting, which she is crying over. now do you get my point?

[Grido]

@pipster, then clearly she hates a lot of people, like she's said (and i can confirm in a couple cases) she's done this numerous times before, this isn't a thing against Seig particularly (though I do agree that she dislikes him), just against that style of training.

And no, the ggg training is not like Sparring Grounds, I would suggest you read the signpost for the rules if you think they are.

[pipster]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1290117773' post='72508']
I would suggest you read the signpost for the rules
[/quote]

grido your quote proves what i was saying, there is RULES there period, you can't judge what rules matter when you are running your spout off about how you hate spots where people train with rules, when there has been a spot like this in the game for years.

and yes i know the rules of SG so don't bother telling me how they different, when that isn't the point.

[Grido]

The sparring grounds doesn't have rules that she's able to break, never mind whether she'd want to or not. Anyone who dst can attack in the sparring grounds, she's allowed to attack by the rules. All she's doing at the other training sites is attacking the people she's able, and posting the location they're at if they're persistent. SG is at a location everyone knows, so no point stating it, and she does attack everyone she's able there. So I don't think you have a point about that....

[pipster]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1290118706' post='72514']
The sparring grounds doesn't have rules that she's able to break, never mind whether she'd want to or not. Anyone who dst can attack in the sparring grounds, she's allowed to attack by the rules. All she's doing at the other training sites is attacking the people she's able, and posting the location they're at if they're persistent. SG is at a location everyone knows, so no point stating it, and she does attack everyone she's able there. So I don't think you have a point about that....
[/quote]

grido i think your missing my whole thing here, who cares if sparing grounds has rules she can break. if you don't like the idea of rules binding to combat it should include all spots and all MP levels. if you think this whole thing is about her want to only focus on rules for mp 5 levels i say that's stupid. the game isn't about dst, so just to say oh someone made a rule dst finds annoying then we should call it out makes me laugh. what it does show is that she has a big head as the game surely isn't about appeasing dst !

[Grido]

No.

You miss my point.

dst treats the Sparring Grounds THE SAME WAY SHE TREATS THE OTHER TRAINING GROUNDS, there's no real difference.

[pipster]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1290120431' post='72519']
No.

You miss my point.

dst treats the Sparring Grounds THE SAME WAY SHE TREATS THE OTHER TRAINING GROUNDS, there's no real difference.
[/quote]

really? show me where she is crying over SG having rules to them? i never seen that once here, if she comes out and says ALL rules in the game should be outlawed then fine i would agree with her, but i haven't seen that. shes just picking on one person who wanted to make something like a SG for MP5 players, and for that i call it very petty.


[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290077915' post='72420']
Public place where everyone can get access to. No rules on how players should attack. If you wish to set a tree, do it without screaming if someone breaks your rit.
[/quote]

this is what i base my argument over, see how she says NO rules on players should attack? so by this logic it should apply to all locations in the game, not to just to mp 5 she can attack as these GGG could very well hold mp3,4 players. hope this clears things up grido

[Kamisha]

Ok I agree with DST on this one and alot of people with side with her here. The main problem with the GGG is protection. The bad rep that it gives you should not appear. You training somewhere with a friend you are doing this at your own risk. What people don't seem to understand is that is that you are in a hostile world. You can create all the god damn rules you want. If you are going to **** and complain about it well that's just ****ing fine with me. I said I was fine with it earlier but now I withdraw that claim. If you are complaining about a few attacks inside your safe zone then you start to look like the GGG that I resented.

P.S. Please forgive my language as it just gets me angry once something like this pops up after its already been beaten down time in again. just im so ****ing angry at having to keep on standing up for something I believe is breaking MD. If anybody needs help breaking down these things im always available for hire. Hire isn't the right word because ill do it for free. Ok service.

[Chewett]

[quote name='pipster' timestamp='1290122096' post='72521']
really? show me where she is crying over SG having rules to them? i never seen that once here, if she comes out and says ALL rules in the game should be outlawed then fine i would agree with her, but i haven't seen that. shes just picking on one person who wanted to make something like a SG for MP5 players, and for that i call it very petty.

[/quote]

If you had been looking around you would have noticed that dst has shut down a lot of these grounds. It just so happened that dst manged to group two things together, dislike of a player running the ground and the ground itself.

PS: Grido there is no point arguing with pipster, [i]we are obviously wrong[/i]

[Peace]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1290077915' post='72420']
Public place where everyone can get access to. No rules on how players should attack. If you wish to set a tree, do it without screaming if someone breaks your rit.
[/quote]

Just my two cents here and I have to say that I agree with Dst on this one 100%.

Personally, I see no need for a new GGG of any sorts. I quit fiighting for many months, leaving me behind in terms of strength and upgraded creatures to use to train properly. I didn't try to form a new training ground. I was out there looking, I realised some people had such defences I could get wins/victories out of them, and I did. In less than a month I managed, after being absent from training for months!, to both get enough wins to max my angiens (when they are in lvl 3, do the math how many wins they need to get maxed) and other creatures, I was finally safe from reaching skill damage. And I did it the right way. I was looking around for targets, I even still had trees on my defences for others to get wins from me and I did not complain about it.

Now, if some people wish to make a new training ground, do it at Willow's. When fighting three trees you don't get much xp, you may also get a victory counted and offer a win with your defence to those who help you. Fight and defend, simple. Why do you desperately need a new 'GGG'?

And come on... the Drachorn's lair? You people should get punished for even [b]entering[/b] this location. Coming from you, RJ, I am really disappointed, I expected more from a Veteran.

[Firsanthalas]

OK, without getting into a debate on training grounds etc.

People sought entry into a place that is supposed to be private, off-limits infact (for a very good reason).
People (including a king, who should know better imo) tried to use this private area for a private club.
The king and leaders of the land were not consulted and it seems this was done with a view to keep them in the dark.

I think that this is a classic example of people abusing their privileges and taking liberties with things that they have no business with.

I am going to point something out. A long time ago people in Loreroot suggested using Pathkeeper for conducting training. This were people of Loreroot. I told them no, as its not simply a location that you can hide away to conduct secret training. Its supposed to have a meaning and a purpose.
I actually believe that MD should have more locations that are restricted and that each land should have an area that is private. However, when you see people doing things like this, you can see why there is a reluctance for Mur to allow it. It really bugs me at the way it always seems to be a minority of people that ruin things for everyone else. Its even worse when they are people that should really know better imo.

Each land in MD is supposed to be sovereign territory. It really annoys me to see that people think its perfectly acceptable to do something like this. It annoys me even more to think that a king would not merely allow it, but seem to push it along.

If I was in Yrth's position I'd most likely be on the warpath about this. It really is incredible.
To those that seem to think its fine I simply have this to say. If it was your land that was being treated in this manner, if some supposedly private place in Necrovion, Loreroot or Marind's Bell was being used by people from outside, would you think it was fine?

[Udgard]

[quote name='Firsanthalas' timestamp='1290165872' post='72548']
If I was in Yrth's position I'd most likely be on the warpath about this. It really is incredible.
To those that seem to think its fine I simply have this to say. If it was your land that was being treated in this manner, if some supposedly private place in Necrovion, Loreroot or Marind's Bell was being used by people from outside, would you think it was fine?
[/quote]
I would guess not, but I, for one, will not go on war with [u]a country[/u] because of the actions of [u]one person[/u] who happens to be its leader. I'd refrain from mixing personal issues with a king over country issues. Unless, of course, the action was done specifically as the King of the Land, representing the Land's intent. If it is an MB training ground made by the King of MB on Golemus soil, it's begging for war. Otherwise, I'd finish the issues on the appropriate scale, unless we really miss repeating convos like the ol dear GG-LR one we had.

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1290167327' post='72550']
I would guess not, but I, for one, will not go on war with [u]a country[/u] because of the actions of [u]one person[/u] who happens to be its leader. I'd refrain from mixing personal issues with a king over country issues. Unless, of course, the action was done specifically as the King of the Land, representing the Land's intent. If it is an MB training ground made by the King of MB on Golemus soil, it's begging for war. Otherwise, I'd finish the issues on the appropriate scale, unless we really miss repeating convos like the ol dear GG-LR one we had.
[/quote]

The issue here is not just [u]one person[/u] taking the actions. But in regards to your comments regards one person and it beeing the leader. In this case the king. The kings actions always represent the intencions of the land. The is the whole point of a king. The represent the land as a whole so the action of the ONE person represents the actions of the land they represent. So in essence the action of the king in this case does represent the land. Now i am [b][u]NOT[/u][/b] saying a war will happen but i will not stand by regards actions like this.

So in light of all the current details and whit the plans that was made and i am to believe this was a work in progress for some time. I nor the leadership of Golemus was informed of this intent, I have to take it as an agressive action from thoes people towards Golemus. No diplomatic approach was made to have this training ground in Golemus and of all places a RESTRICTED location. I for one do not intend to sit back and let this one slide.

The people involved knew their action could bring about a big responce of some kind be it Mur or be it the land responding to what can really be concidered an invasion in a way of Golemus. yes i know that is a strong word but i cannot think of a better one. I am not happy that this situation has happened and yes it does create a very difficult situation. I find i have to look at the sort of responce that can be given as attacking people has no meaning and wars have no meening in game so what can be done?

For now i am putting this forward. No Marind Bell player is allowed into Golemus and will be attacked on site. This is is responce to the Marind Bell leader/king setting up a training ground in Golemus without asking. The other people not citizens of Marind Bell are also not allowed to be in Golemus and will also be attacked on site. (I know this is not really much and difficult to enforce but it is a responce i can give and action with the helo of the land leaders)

Myself and the leaders will have to talk some more regards any other actions that need be taken. But yes i am not pleased about what has been done and i do not intend to let this one go.

Yrthilian
King of Golemus
Golemus Technomage

[Firsanthalas]

Perhaps 'warpath' was a poor choice of word. When i say on the warpath, that does not mean declaring war. It means being very exercised about something and not being content to let it slide.
Its an expression used here that doesn't mean you are going to poke people with sharp knives and swords.

[dst]

Here's the full log I took from PC. There are more things in there then I already posted. Including the fact that nobody bothered to inform the King about the training and also the fact that they were warned multiple times by multiple persons that the cave is closed.

http://storenow.net/my/?f=2440


@pipster:[s]take a break and read the forum and mainly the topics about SG and GGG then I will maybe listen to your opinion[/s] scratch that. You can't handle an answer. Actually...you don't deserve an answer.

[Jubaris]

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1290168419' post='72551']

For now i am putting this forward. No Marind Bell player is allowed into Golemus and will be attacked on site. This is is responce to the Marind Bell leader/king setting up a training ground in Golemus without asking. The other people not citizens of Marind Bell are also not allowed to be in Golemus and will also be attacked on site. (I know this is not really much and difficult to enforce but it is a responce i can give and action with the helo of the land leaders)

[/quote]

the mood about "Golemus King needs to be asked before an event in Golemus can be placed" has my response: this sounds very hypocritical since Golemus citizen holds "Fight Club" event in MB (as far as I know without asking Lifeline to place it there) and nobody ever commented that in a wrong way (nor it should have), then Golemus citizen made a pub in Willow's shop (don't know is it still active?)...
furthermore, if Marind Bell citizens aren't allowed in Golemus, will you restrain from sending your own citizens into Marind Bell?

about the Drachorn Cave itself being restricted.... Mur will probably treat that, in any case at least you could have talked in private (as far as I know, you, Yrthilian, and Lifeline had pretty good relations before, which shouldn't undermine communication lines at all)
From what I've heard, you and Lifeline have a history of cooperating on certain subjects, so the fact that you aren't speaking with him, but rather making conclusions in public (where Lifeline didn't post a response yet) leads me to following:


This all looks to me like a farce to gain some profit from wagging a war to Marind Bell, or to put pressure on disturbing Lifeline's position (since someone was complaining recently about Lifeline, those two cases might be connected), and at least one is sure, this certainly wouldn't be the FIRST nor the SECOND time such poor excuse was being used to create warmongering mood, but this is the third time (at least in my score-books).
Now let's look at the statistics. First war lead Firsanthalas having most social power, de facto taking Raven's position, while he was, what 5th or 6th person of importance before the war(?). Second war lead to an elections that replaced Jester at that point, Yrth's enemy, with Peace. (perhaps that wasn't intentional, I'm just stating the facts)
Idea of third land-leader being replaced comes to me naturally.
I hope this isn't the case tho. (tho I would be interested how would Golemus citizens react, if this was all true, this time, since first time they followed [LR threat-war], second time [invasion on Necro] lead to an unrest and an almost successful coup.)


why I respond like this? There was an incident, and I don't see Yrthilian wanting to clear things up, I hear "I would go down the warpath if I was Yrth" and such comments, which Yrthilian accepted and acted upon.

[Grido]

=))


ahh, thanks for that, it gave me a good laugh
I did comment to Yrth that someone would bring up the Golemus king maker thing, and lo and behold...so it was

I've really got to appreciate how in one post you've managed to turn Golemus into the bad guys for being annoyed that people were using out land illegally, gotta hand it to you, that's some skill you have.

The difference with the fight club is that it's never been secret, or hidden, and certainly not in a location that is restricted access. It is in MDP i believe, and i'm pretty sure Life knows all about it, besides which, it's Burns that runs it, and he's not the king. Whereas Lifeline had a large hand in the group fighting on Golemus, as he used his chase and summon spells to get them in, he made a direct action.

Conclusions in public would be so that people actually know what's going on, rather than keeping everything hush hush and suddenly something big happens affecting them all, open-ness is a nice thing, we like it


LE: @Chewie, i realised, that's why i stopped responding Edited November 19, 2010 by Grido

[Firsanthalas]

I seem to recall that the kings were elected much later than Raven's departure. I also seem to recall that it was Mur that instigated this, not Yrth. I also seem to recall that I was elected by a majority of people (I also recall a massive majority). So I don't get this constant nonsense about me being somehow placed in position by Yrth or anyone else, or that I am somehow a puppet for Yrth.
I am pretty sure that if the general populace of MD felt that was true, they'd have voted against me on the basis that it would give Yrth power over another land.
This is getting offtopic, but I feel I can't let that one go unanswered.

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290171185' post='72556']
the mood about "Golemus King needs to be asked before an event in Golemus can be placed" has my response: this sounds very hypocritical since Golemus citizen holds "Fight Club" event in MB (as far as I know without asking Lifeline to place it there) and nobody ever commented that in a wrong way (nor it should have), then Golemus citizen made a pub in Willow's shop (don't know is it still active?)...
furthermore, if Marind Bell citizens aren't allowed in Golemus, will you restrain from sending your own citizens into Marind Bell?
[/quote]

hypocritical? well i dont know if i really am beeing such. I did not say i was agenst the GGG but more the location and how it was done. In regards to citizens entering Marind Bell that is their choice to do so. It is up to the King of the land to make his responce to what i have said. But in regards to the fight club, That was setup publicly and anounced that is would be before it was done. So i believe with that there was a chance to respond to not wanting to have it in Marind Bell. So please get your facts right before trying to undermine me in the topic.

I also point you at Grido responce above so i dont end up repeating myself too much.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290171185' post='72556']
about the Drachorn Cave itself being restricted.... Mur will probably treat that, in any case at least you could have talked in private (as far as I know, you, Yrthilian, and Lifeline had pretty good relations before, which shouldn't undermine communication lines at all)
From what I've heard, you and Lifeline have a history of cooperating on certain subjects, so the fact that you aren't speaking with him, but rather making conclusions in public (where Lifeline didn't post a response yet) leads me to following:
[/quote]

Well i dont make it a habbit to tell you what i am doing, SO [u]from what you have heard[/u] what a load of Bull. You try comming on the forums and state what you have heard as fact? Go and... Well if you want to try and say i am doing or not doing something come with proff of this and not spread stupid roumers. Yes myself and Lifeline have works on many projects so for him in turn to organize such as he did the GGG in a closed location not of his land make me wonder what the motives are. Since i have already gotten reports back stating he was planning this setup for a while and in remote locations.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290171185' post='72556']

This all looks to me like a farce to gain some profit from wagging a war to Marind Bell, or to put pressure on disturbing Lifeline's position (since someone was complaining recently about Lifeline, those two cases might be connected), and at least one is sure, this certainly wouldn't be the FIRST nor the SECOND time such poor excuse was being used to create warmongering mood, but this is the third time (at least in my score-books).
[/quote]

ROLF this is a good one profit. Hmm i wonder how i could profit from this one. Putting preasure on lifeline? come one how week an excuse is that? not to mention just plain stupid. I dont know who was complaining about lifeline or more so who specificaly you are refering to. So please if you are going to make a statement back it up grow a pair will you? i believe it is 3 wars i have been involved in. 2 agenst LR and 1 agenst Necrovian. Oh i could make a set here. So it would be a 4th time. Please update your score book. This just shows how your information is again wrong.



[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290171185' post='72556']

Now let's look at the statistics. First war lead Firsanthalas having most social power, de facto taking Raven's position, while he was, what 5th or 6th person of importance before the war(?). Second war lead to an elections that replaced Jester at that point, Yrth's enemy, with Peace. (perhaps that wasn't intentional, I'm just stating the facts)
Idea of third land-leader being replaced comes to me naturally.
I hope this isn't the case tho. (tho I would be interested how would Golemus citizens react, if this was all true, this time, since first time they followed [LR threat-war], second time [invasion on Necro] lead to an unrest and an almost successful coup.)
[/quote]

Woo hoo statistics got to love them. First war was before then so again information is wrong, Second war Firs made his own way to kingship not by my hand. (i know iknow no one believe me but at this point it does not matter) third war imade a mistake in not keeping the leadership informed and that was my own fault. But in the end it got worked out. I am not supprised this comes up that i know what to do the same to Marind Bell. It take someone like you that has so far failed to provide proper facts and acruet ones at that to come to this conclusion. So how many of you are there on this team of thinkers?

I truly hope this does not come to a war. It is also a pitty someone like you just cant let go of the past it is a player like you that cause most of the conflicts and that make such big disruptions within the realm.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290171185' post='72556']
why I respond like this? There was an incident, and I don't see Yrthilian wanting to clear things up, I hear "I would go down the warpath if I was Yrth" and such comments, which Yrthilian accepted and acted upon.
[/quote]

Oh please i have not been able to stop laughing. As i have pointed out what you "see" and what you "hear" has all been a load of bull and it just shows how you act on information with getting the fact clear. I believe Firs has cleared up the meaning of "Warpath" from an irish point of view, This is a slang word we use to say i am mad and really anoyed or in his case i would be mad and really anoyed, and shouting about it. Me acting upone what firs said? please i have been acting upone something more serious than a few words.

Wow that was a rant and a half i suppose. But my stance is still the same.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Yrthilian

[Jubaris]

Glad you had some fun Grido

anyway,
funny or not, it is so clear that even a Paper Cabin newb can see it I mean come on, first Yrthilian talks how Lifeline planned this all along (which implies that he wanted to abuse GG all along, which isn't true), how he suspected all this 'evil' and now it's time for him to act. Bla bla bla, only an idiot would believe that story 3 times in a row.

Let's say that the makers are guilty, at least of ignorance if not anything else, but they certainly aren't guilty of "invading Golemus", that's ridiculous, and this issue has nothing to do with Marind Bell.
Good job neg-repping Udgard, the most political-biased-less person in MD.

Now, Firsanthalas, if I recall, Yrthilian, upon ending the 'war' with LR stated that there are number of people he won't see as leaders of Loreroot. He perhaps didn't directly throned you, but he just cleared a lot of obstacles on the path (despite you wanting to take the path or not, I'm just pointing out the MAJOR social power change after that 'war') since after that Blackthorn vanished, Raven left and abdicated the right on the title he wanted to claim (Archon of Loreroot if I recall). Number of things happened, but let's focus on the present.

You can, Yrth, of course, feed number of people how you didn't want such and such to happen, but what do you know, it did happen anyway... 2 times
Maybe you didn't aim for that, but both leader-changes were going in your advantage.
(I don't count Shade Balance, I wasn't present then, and the "more recent ones" were all purely player made, in sense of motivations to wage war)

You don't have to pull the trigger to kill someone, if that wasn't clear?


moving on.
Are you expecting me to answer to a question "How would a King of one land profit if he would plant some fresh friends as Kings in other lands"?

I mean ok, it's a game, it's nothing personal, you do what you want, but do you really expect me to believe your reasoning? That for example, influencing that your best friend (in game at least, since you two know each other in RL) becomes king of Loreroot, was purely coincidental?
Just say, I want to take your lands, I'm the sheriff around here, Booooo, and fine, we'll all play the game, but don't insult people's intelligence this way.
Or I don't know, perhaps it is standard procedure for declaring wars in general, having "motives" in textbooks might make every 2nd or 3rd person believe that they are true. Ok I took it to extreme, like the war is already here, but you get my point.


You can have hundreds of reasons to dethrone another king, I gave one, call it weak if you want, but I call your stated reason for making relations with Marind Bell hostile - ridiculous.

[Firsanthalas]

[quote]I mean ok, it's a game, it's nothing personal, you do what you want, but do you really expect me to believe your reasoning? That for example, influencing that your best friend (in game at least, since you two know each other in RL) becomes king of Loreroot, was purely coincidental? [/quote]
LOL
Yeah, Yrth got 500 votes, everyone else got 1. Seriously, that is ludicrous.
As for Lifeline and Yrth not discussing things. I think Yrth's point, is that Lifeline could and should have approached Yrth. He didn't. That is on Lifeline, not Yrth. Lifeline chose to not speak to Yrth about it, despite the fact that they had a good history of collaboration as you said yourself. If it transpires that the Lifeline did approach Yrth and he said no, well thats even worse. But it seems that Yrth knew nothing of it in advance from Lifeline.

Edit: To be clear too. I am not simply backing up my buddy. I feel that a line has been crossed here. I've already stated that if this was being done in Loreroot, I'd be bothered. So, its only right and proper that I speak up on an issue that I see as something that affects the kings and lands in general. But, yeah, I am backing Yrth on this and I feel that many others are too.
Lifeline has overstepped his bounds and at the very least, he owes Golemnus an apology.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Firsanthalas

[Yrthilian]

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']
funny or not, it is so clear that even a Paper Cabin newb can see it I mean come on, first Yrthilian talks how Lifeline planned this all along (which implies that he wanted to abuse GG all along, which isn't true), how he suspected all this 'evil' and now it's time for him to act. Bla bla bla, only an idiot would believe that story 3 times in a row.
[/quote]

Broken record anyone?

First you put word in my moths i would suggest stopping that. It is just childish to do such things. You chave your opinion that is fine but trying to make it fact well that i have an isue with. So far from last argument to now you STILL have not rovided proff of what is happining again you get the information worng what a supprise. You made the implication to what is beeing said not me. "evil" ?????? were did that crap come from?

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']

Let's say that the makers are guilty, at least of ignorance if not anything else, but they certainly aren't guilty of "invading Golemus", that's ridiculous, and this issue has nothing to do with Marind Bell.
[/quote]

It has everything to do it Marind Bell if the king of that land is involved in the actions. IF it was reversed you and many of your team mate would be spouting the opisot and wanted me taken down. SO now it seems you are the one beeing hypocritical.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']

Now, Firsanthalas, if I recall, Yrthilian, upon ending the 'war' with LR stated that there are number of people he won't see as leaders of Loreroot. He perhaps didn't directly throned you, but he just cleared a lot of obstacles on the path (despite you wanting to take the path or not, I'm just pointing out the MAJOR social power change after that 'war') since after that Blackthorn vanished, Raven left and abdicated the right on the title he wanted to claim (Archon of Loreroot if I recall). Number of things happened, but let's focus on the present.
[/quote]

wow i am in shock you got something right. but still does not make up for so many wrongs. Yep i stated i would not like to see certan member at that time become leaders. Still did not stop the ones that could have done the job from applying for the position and getting there as i recale most of them did and didnt make it. But again this is the past and really has no place here. No matter your opinion on it.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']

You can, Yrth, of course, feed number of people how you didn't want such and such to happen, but what do you know, it did happen anyway... 2 times
Maybe you didn't aim for that, but both leader-changes were going in your advantage.
(I don't count Shade Balance, I wasn't present then, and the "more recent ones" were all purely player made, in sense of motivations to wage war)
[/quote]

I fail to see how both leaders went to my advantage. Yes Firs is a RL friend as stated before war/LR issue happened so people would know. Guess i had a hidden agenda letting every one now that i knew firs in RL. Dang i should have said nothing and rule the world muahahaha. Opps sorry did i say that out loud. Cop on will you. as regards Peace getting kingship that was something that would have happened ether way and to be honest myself and peace dont see eye to eye most of the time. So putting her in charge was to be no advantage to me. So again you try to use fact were you are oh wait did i say it already WRONG!!!!!! now i am starting to sound like a broken record. Next thing i know you will be sueing me for something stupid too.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']
You don't have to pull the trigger to kill someone, if that wasn't clear?
[/quote]

Nope you can use the following
Stones,
Base ball bat,
Sticks,
Slingshots,
Mud,
Fists,
Feet,
Will i keep going?



[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']

moving on.
Are you expecting me to answer to a question "How would a King of one land profit if he would plant some fresh friends as Kings in other lands"?

[/quote]

Oh oh oh please do let me know how i would profit i might then try it. Oh who would i put in to take over if i have buddies i didnt know about i must speak with them right away and make a new king. Didnt you know i am yrthilian tryant king maker. for crying out loud again i say cop on


[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']
I mean ok, it's a game, it's nothing personal, you do what you want, but do you really expect me to believe your reasoning? That for example, influencing that your best friend (in game at least, since you two know each other in RL) becomes king of Loreroot, was purely coincidental?
[/quote]

Hmm i believe i answered to this bit above i dont wish to repeat my self again.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']

Just say, I want to take your lands, I'm the sheriff around here, Booooo, and fine, we'll all play the game, but don't insult people's intelligence this way.
Or I don't know, perhaps it is standard procedure for declaring wars in general, having "motives" in textbooks might make every 2nd or 3rd person believe that they are true. Ok I took it to extreme, like the war is already here, but you get my point.
[/quote]

well i get you point that you are beeing a dum.... i really should refrain my self here.
come one what you spout is just a load of rubish. I also think you are the one insulting peoples intelligence. Since you are the one comming to the forum with usless fact that are wrong and have not yet supplied a proper reall argument or provide information to back you up. You must think the realm stupid if you think what you say is fact.


[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1290175804' post='72562']
You can have hundreds of reasons to dethrone another king, I gave one, call it weak if you want, but I call your stated reason for making relations with Marind Bell hostile - ridiculous.
[/quote]

really you do that fine that is your allowed opinion. So if in the RL world a leader finds another leader in his land with weapons and a army beeing trained they would go ah hey buddy no harm no foul? come of you want us to think you are smart right?