I have proof, I've got copy of pms, and screenshots of her abusive nature for nearly five months. This is not something I did at a mere whim. If this makes it to Trial, I will submit it as asked to.

Also, I would like to add that I have done nothing to provoke her into doing this. She constantly calls me a coward, and provokes me into reacting, which I have not done. She purposely dances infront of me, waving her arms saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you." There has to be a point at which it is enough.

Yes, I called her std. She was not online, she was not there, and the name calling was already CLEARED from the screen. It is not my fault she was nosy and found it.

I am not an alt of Fenrir. I am Seigheart, a totally different character.

If you go back and compare the temperment of both of us, you would see that it is different. I believe I am far more mature, and reserved than he ever was.

Edited November 18, 201015 yr by Vicarious

We don't care unless you show it to us now, this very minute. Since you researched this, you know how long it took for the previous trial to finish...

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290108320' post='72479']
She purposely dances infront of me, waving her arms saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you."
[/quote]


hahahahahaha ))))

sorry, I had to quote this

anyway, my suggestion is, be honest and open, there's not much use of hiding things only for Mur's eyes... Dst usually posts some evidence when she starts her campaigns... so post everything you have, be rational, and if you get ignored, well that will certainly undermine the credibility of the Court, which I don't think MD officials would allow that easily.


My personal opinion about so much people having abilities to pull the chat is that it sucks. I realize chat needs to be maintained, no swear words and such, but if people can spy on others so easily, then where's the realism in this game? what idiot would do something cool/secret conversation/plot in MD's chat if the person knows that it can be discovered so easily.
I would personally (and I think the rules go along that way too anyway) allow insulting/hatred on basis character versus character, but when that reaches points of RL conflicts, then it should be treated accordingly

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290108320' post='72479']
I have proof, I've got copy of pms, and screenshots of her abusive nature for nearly five months. This is not something I did at a mere whim. If this makes it to Trial, I will submit it as asked to.
[/quote]


I do believe that this is should go official. It would be quite interesting.
So, try to add it to http://magicduel.com/pages/info.trials.php


By the way: I voted for the trial and I'm waiting for the fun


PS: Vicarious, please add your player name to your forum account.

Edited November 18, 201015 yr by No one

[quote]I am not an alt of Fenrir. I am Seigheart, a totally different character.

If you go back and compare the temperment of both of us, you would see that it is different. I believe I am far more mature, and reserved than he ever was.[/quote]

You say you are a diferent character....but, who is behind the character? THe same player who played Fenrir? Sorry if I offend you, but the way you wrote this phrase, is confused, since one of the points is if you are or aren't Fenrir's alt, or, for what I understand, the same player that plays/played Fenrir.

[quote]
2 dst Vs Fenrir Greycloth Day 135 Y 5 Day 257 Y 5 Forum, First jury
D accuses F of slander, harassment, constant verbal abuse and mocking, threats and lying. D asks to have F on forum mod preview for eternity and 2 months in jail. In turn, F claims to be not guilty and accuses D of harassement too and of provoking him to herass her. F also points out that this is not an isolated case but a general thing D does.
[/quote]

This is the second case and I guess it fits into the same lines. Though once again both people showed evidence publicly. Mur will only glace at this shortly if you don't show any proof. You have to give us one card at least to get it started. In RL court you have to present everything to the defendants eyes. You dont have to do this here but you do have to have to give a bit think of it as a warrant. You have to give the judge reasonable proof to look through someones personal belongings its an invasion of privacy.

P.S. Using acoustic remains is NOT an invasion of privacy. Note that anything that you say in the chat is made public. Thus anything that you choose to put there is legally public property. It may look like im taking a side here but im not. I am simply stating the law. I have been not approached by either people for legal representation thus I am still on a neutral stance.

Edit: Also can we keep the voting down to a minimum I am trying to balance out all the vote downs. The voting up and voting down feature is for pointless posts not for your alignment in this case. There is just too much temper flare ups in these kind of things for me to think the rating system is fair in this topic.

Edited November 18, 201015 yr by Kamisha

Ok the main point here is this

This is still a player taking this action not the character.
The question here is can the player take the same case twice not the character
as it is a player has multipul characters and if the character is allowed to bring forth a case
then one could more or less bring the same case forward many times.

So the reall question is can the player bring this case forward twice.
Now i know there is no proff of the player beeing both characters but if this case was to go forwards
and it is found to be the same person then this question needs be answered.

This could be concidered abuse of alts to carry on with a fight from the players involved.

Firstly: If he is one of Fenrirs alts, Mur is the only one who can say. Useing his alt checker.

Secondly: I am personally certain that this is an alt of Fenrir, since on the first time interacting with Seighart he IMMEDIATELY struck me as Fenrir, and I didn't know about any of the other pieces of evidence. It was just extremely obvious. I then wrote it on his PL, to which I got a PM CONFIRMING he was Fenrir, but that he didn't want people to know, so I politely removed it.

I would just add to the topic as a, more or less, sidenote that if you don't want your chat taken from acoustic remains Mur created [i]the Sunny Bedroom[/i] in the Tribunal. And even though the Eastern Lands are closed now, they weren't just a while ago and it was still possible to get into the room where dst can't reach your chat log. What's more your evidence is most probably from before the Tribunal was closed.

So i can't agree that accusing dst of using her acoustic remains to take a certain chat log is actually based on good grounds.

More than a couple items:
[spoiler]
Caru Fenrir Greycloth 469644 Madhorn 1 4 29/06/10 06:36:02
Seigheart Caru 617846 Rustgold Drachorn Hatchling 1 4 29/06/10 06:35:23


Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:23 8141 Wooden Staff 77557 2 29/06/10 14:12:33
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 06/10/09 04:05 3358 Elemental Amulet 157393 2 29/06/10 14:12:23


Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 6689 Gold coin 77557 2 29/06/10 05:50:51
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:23 7128 Silver coin 148016 4 29/06/10 05:50:48
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 7127 Silver coin 148016 4 29/06/10 05:50:43
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 5830 Gold coin 95950 4 29/06/10 05:50:41
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 7126 Silver coin 148016 4 29/06/10 05:50:38
Seigheart Bought in MD Shop on 15/12/09 by Fenrir Greycloth (86191) in Features 5733 Gold coin 86191 1 29/06/10 05:50:35
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 5698 Silver coin 104972 3 29/06/10 05:50:33
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3357 Gold coin 92917 8 29/06/10 05:50:31
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5009 Silver coin 103068 5 29/06/10 05:50:29
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2895 Gold coin 137291 3 29/06/10 05:50:26
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5008 Silver coin 103068 5 29/06/10 05:50:23
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5007 Silver coin 103063 5 29/06/10 05:50:21
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5006 Silver coin 103063 5 29/06/10 05:50:19
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4820 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:15
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4819 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:13
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4818 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:10
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4816 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:07
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4815 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:05
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4814 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:03
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4609 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:01
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4608 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:49:58
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4607 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:49:55
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4606 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:49:53
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3743 Silver coin 136488 3 29/06/10 05:49:50
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3475 Silver coin 154117 4 29/06/10 05:49:48
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3465 Silver coin 80963 4 29/06/10 05:49:46
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3415 Silver coin 136253 3 29/06/10 05:49:44
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3359 Silver coin 92917 3 29/06/10 05:49:42
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3286 Silver coin 137291 3 29/06/10 05:49:39
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3285 Silver coin 137291 3 29/06/10 05:49:15
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3208 Silver coin 159703 4 29/06/10 05:49:12
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3207 Silver coin 159703 4 29/06/10 05:49:08
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3206 Silver coin 159703 4 29/06/10 05:49:06
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3136 Silver coin 86324 4 29/06/10 05:49:02
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3103 Silver coin 92917 3 29/06/10 05:48:59
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3102 Silver coin 92917 3 29/06/10 05:48:57
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2864 Silver coin 151251 5 29/06/10 05:48:54
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2863 Silver coin 151251 5 29/06/10 05:48:52
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2782 Silver coin 66971 5 29/06/10 05:48:42
Seigheart Bought in MD Shop on 09/03/10 by Fenrir Greycloth (86191) 7806 Silver coin 86191 1 29/06/10 04:54:41
[/spoiler]
Edit: To prevent confusion; The logs in the spoiler were pulled either the day of the transfers or the day after.

As well, I'd like to point out this small segment:
[17/11/10 20:17] Seigheart:I dunno what you mean, what's a dst?
[17/11/10 20:17] :Manda Pm Muahahha
[17/11/10 20:18] Seigheart:Wow. LOL
[17/11/10 20:18] Seigheart:Call her std. *grins*
Seigheart asks what a dst is, Manda sends a PM, Seigheart laughs and calls her std. Immediately, this looks to me like Manda was the one that said it first, not Seigheart.

As well again, though I have no proof, I remember seeing a PL post that showed Seigheart saying something along the lines of "Women are weaker than men". Does anybody happen to remember Fenrir's similar statements?

Edited November 18, 201015 yr by Pipstickz

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1290123461' post='72524']
More than a couple items:
[spoiler]
Caru Fenrir Greycloth 469644 Madhorn 1 4 29/06/10 06:36:02
Seigheart Caru 617846 Rustgold Drachorn Hatchling 1 4 29/06/10 06:35:23


Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:23 8141 Wooden Staff 77557 2 29/06/10 14:12:33
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 06/10/09 04:05 3358 Elemental Amulet 157393 2 29/06/10 14:12:23


Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 6689 Gold coin 77557 2 29/06/10 05:50:51
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:23 7128 Silver coin 148016 4 29/06/10 05:50:48
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 7127 Silver coin 148016 4 29/06/10 05:50:43
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 5830 Gold coin 95950 4 29/06/10 05:50:41
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 7126 Silver coin 148016 4 29/06/10 05:50:38
Seigheart Bought in MD Shop on 15/12/09 by Fenrir Greycloth (86191) in Features 5733 Gold coin 86191 1 29/06/10 05:50:35
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:22 5698 Silver coin 104972 3 29/06/10 05:50:33
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3357 Gold coin 92917 8 29/06/10 05:50:31
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5009 Silver coin 103068 5 29/06/10 05:50:29
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2895 Gold coin 137291 3 29/06/10 05:50:26
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5008 Silver coin 103068 5 29/06/10 05:50:23
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5007 Silver coin 103063 5 29/06/10 05:50:21
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 5006 Silver coin 103063 5 29/06/10 05:50:19
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4820 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:15
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4819 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:13
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4818 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:10
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4816 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:07
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4815 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:05
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4814 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:03
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4609 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:50:01
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4608 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:49:58
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4607 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:49:55
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 04:56 4606 Silver coin 92070 6 29/06/10 05:49:53
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3743 Silver coin 136488 3 29/06/10 05:49:50
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3475 Silver coin 154117 4 29/06/10 05:49:48
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3465 Silver coin 80963 4 29/06/10 05:49:46
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3415 Silver coin 136253 3 29/06/10 05:49:44
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3359 Silver coin 92917 3 29/06/10 05:49:42
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3286 Silver coin 137291 3 29/06/10 05:49:39
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3285 Silver coin 137291 3 29/06/10 05:49:15
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3208 Silver coin 159703 4 29/06/10 05:49:12
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3207 Silver coin 159703 4 29/06/10 05:49:08
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3206 Silver coin 159703 4 29/06/10 05:49:06
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3136 Silver coin 86324 4 29/06/10 05:49:02
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3103 Silver coin 92917 3 29/06/10 05:48:59
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 3102 Silver coin 92917 3 29/06/10 05:48:57
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2864 Silver coin 151251 5 29/06/10 05:48:54
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2863 Silver coin 151251 5 29/06/10 05:48:52
Seigheart Fenrir Greycloth 29/06/10 05:21 2782 Silver coin 66971 5 29/06/10 05:48:42
Seigheart Bought in MD Shop on 09/03/10 by Fenrir Greycloth (86191) 7806 Silver coin 86191 1 29/06/10 04:54:41
[/spoiler]
Edit: To prevent confusion; The logs in the spoiler were pulled either the day of the transfers or the day after.

As well, I'd like to point out this small segment:
[17/11/10 20:17] Seigheart:I dunno what you mean, what's a dst?
[17/11/10 20:17] :Manda Pm Muahahha
[17/11/10 20:18] Seigheart:Wow. LOL
[17/11/10 20:18] Seigheart:Call her std. *grins*
Seigheart asks what a dst is, Manda sends a PM, Seigheart laughs and calls her std. Immediately, this looks to me like Manda was the one that said it first, not Seigheart.

As well again, though I have no proof, I remember seeing a PL post that showed Seigheart saying something along the lines of "Women are weaker than men". Does anybody happen to remember Fenrir's similar statements?
[/quote]

Ok the evidence is piling against him. I am inclined to say that he is Fenrir. Though before I say that 100% and might regret it. Lets see if we can get murs alt checker in here.

I would like to add, though I have no proof, that Fenrir DID give away his other creatures to other people, but that was only ever one or two, if my memory is correct.

Oh but there is proof:))

Simply follow the logic ...in my previous post i addressed to Fenrir ..Guess who answered ??
Oh Yes ! You;re right Seigheart did ...feeling offended

Now you do the logics..i;m still wondering if i should start a trial against Seigheart for slander or should i wait until he start his own trial against me ( after all i am "just like dst" or maybe i am her - who knows )

Again, you show circumstantial evidence. From what I understand, Fenrir gave away ALL his creatures to new players.

I would like to see some real proof, like proof that we share the same ip addresses, that we live in the Same city, or even that we are the same person.

I don't know why everyone cares so much about who I am, it doesn't matter. This case is about dst's constant harassment of Seigheart. Not Fenrir.

I, Seigheart, have done nothing against anyone. Fenrir may have, I don't care. I am NOT him. I wish people would realize that we are different people. I speak like him? So what? I don't act like him. I'm not an arrogant self centered prick that looses his cool every time someone says something against him.

So, instead of trying to ruin this trial with this garbage about be being Fenrir, try realizing what the real purpose behind this trial is; Dst and her harassment of others! She has no right to treat others the way she does, and just because she is nice to you, doesn't mean she is nice to everyone else.

And don't get me wrong, I don't expect her to be nice to me, but I would rather she would just ignore me as I have tried for so long to ignore her.

And Indyra, remember what I said? About your targeting me as Fenrir as well? Again. You're doing it. I expected more from an LHO.

I talked to mur. I'm not going to try interpret what he said as it might come off the wrong way so ill just quote his response. I would like to ask you not to try add anything to this message or send mur any more messages regarding this as I am sure his mind is made up.

[quote]
Sent Today, 07:08 AM
the matter is discussed in the council, a conclusion will be announced probably monday.
seigheart is also involved in something that might not allow him to do a trial ..afterall you cant do that if baned or jailed...
but more soon
[/quote]

P.S. I also ask you not to make assumptions me doing that yesterday was a mistake.

If I happen to remember correctly, Seigheart stated over by the Howling Gate some time [maybe a week or a few days, I do not remember] ago, that he had already proven to Mur that he was not Fenrir.

In this case, by the quote of Mur, it seems that he -has not- proven such, if the council has to get involved and Mur has not stated otherwise.

There were plenty of awake witnesses to quote him on that as well, if I may add.

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290181726' post='72575']
I would like to see some real proof <...>
[/quote]
Quoted for irony.

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1290189826' post='72592']
If I happen to remember correctly, Seigheart stated over by the Howling Gate some time [maybe a week or a few days, I do not remember] ago, that he had already proven to Mur that he was not Fenrir.

In this case, by the quote of Mur, it seems that he -has not- proven such, if the council has to get involved and Mur has not stated otherwise.

There were plenty of awake witnesses to quote him on that as well, if I may add.
[/quote]

Well likely the council is involved because of a previous post by mur concerning he was having some problems in his real life. Thats why I was hesitant to post the quote because it might cause him to somewhat need to intervene which I don't think he wants to do too much right now and just let his RL get sorted out. Not only for his sake but for ours as well. I mean he is the driver.

[quote name='Curiose' timestamp='1290189826' post='72592']
If I happen to remember correctly, Seigheart stated over by the Howling Gate some time [maybe a week or a few days, I do not remember] ago, that he had already proven to Mur that he was not Fenrir.

In this case, by the quote of Mur, it seems that he -has not- proven such, if the council has to get involved and Mur has not stated otherwise.

There were plenty of awake witnesses to quote him on that as well, if I may add.
[/quote]
From the rules and restrictions page:
forging affirmations and prtending "mur said so" will result in permanent ban, without explanations.

I certainly hope for his sake that he was telling the truth when he involved Mur in this in that manner >.>

Edited November 20, 201015 yr by Kyphis the Bard

that might actually be what mur was talking about in his message but once again im not sure. Though I think mur is rather reasonable and since it didnt result in major problems I think he will get punished but a permanent ban would be a bit sever. Though if what mur is talking about are different issues then they might add up to a point that mur just says its easier to get rid of him.

[quote name='Vicarious' timestamp='1290181726' post='72575']
I would like to see some real proof...that we live in the Same city
[/quote]

*sighs* I swore I wouldn't get into this cause frankly I don't even care whether you are or not. Thing is, Fenrir told me where he lived, and it was in Ontario Canada, and was like 30-45 minutes or something away from me, heading North/Northeast. You told me where you lived once, and it was again, 30-45 minutes going in the same direction. Not exactly sure if your the same person, or if it's just an insane coincidence that both of you live near each other, and have near personalities. Again, I really couldn't care less.

So, since Fenrir-- I mean, Seigheart, is no longer contesting this, nor pushing the issue of his wanted lawsuit against DST, does this need to be discussed further, or must we come to our own conclusions?

We should find out Monday. There is some action being taken against him. He may be banned or jailed. I asked mur to keep me posted. If I get anything ill post it here unless he announces it himself or doesn't want me to advertise it.

From what we have learn't so far from the announcements seigheart can still press charges if he wishes. However I am disturbed by his pardon it is not my place to pass any sort of judgment on that as mur obviously knows more about the situation then I do. So this is what we can deduce:
-Sigheart had some reason for a pardon from being in the drakhorn cave
-We can also deduce that the drakhorn cave is strictly off limits.
-Finally we can deduce that if sigheart refuses to post again he has dropped charges. We will find out soon enough.

Lots of off topic here

Its irrelevant if Seigheart is an alt of Fenrir (if its alt abuse, he will be punished by Mur, the so called alt is a different character, and should be judged based on that alone)

Seigheart's role in the Drachorn's Lair is not a factor here (Mur has pardon him, its his discretion, again nothing to do with his dispute with dst)

The only point to discuss is if dst overstepped boundaries and abused her powers and harrassed Seigheart.

To further discuss this we need proof from Seigheart.

Any other problems that Seigheart has done should be discussed in another thread. Unless the problems that he made justifies what dst is doing, assuming she did what Seigheart says she did.