Well I want to go on trial against the council or whoever is responsible for:

[list=1]

[b][*]Punishing me for breaking a rule that is nowhere to be found.
[*]For not informing me of the existence of the rule on time.
[*]Not having the rules of the HC stated clearly in a place were everybody can read them.
[*]Meddling with HC contest[/b]

[/list]
[u]the situation:[/u]

I have been participating in the HC and as most of you know I was hiding inside Necrovion. When I got my first big bowl of heads (1,5K heads), which I of course took fair and square by the HC rules, I idled inside Necrovion. I woke up in MDP with the heads lost. The next day the same thing happened about 6 times in a row. After that I get an anonymous message saying this:

[i]Head contest rules
You are not allowed to go to places where only few players can go during the Head contest. Necrovion is one of them because you can enter it (edited for spoiler) or by spell. Or in your case by jump to leader. But the rest of the people do not have the options.

So please stay out of Necrovion.[/i]
[u]
And here comes my accusations.[/u]
[list=1]

[*]If Necrovion is out of bounds then make it a no-head zone. If you don’t then its not my fault I used it.
[*]If what the pm says is a rule as the title of the pm suggests then why this rule is not public, and if it is, shouldn’t it be in a place where everybody can read it? That omission costed me my hard work in getting those heads and could have costed me the competition.
[*]If I got the pm in the first place, even before the first teleport I would have moved away from Necrovion asap. But no, they didn’t sent it until they had teleported me at MDP for at least 6 times… This is preposterous.
[/list]

[u]I demand 3 things:[/u]
[list=1]

[*]An official figure to answer to this post.
[*]The rule to be written in a place were everybody can see it. Or a forum post with all the rules of the HC and a link in the HC page so people can read it. Its about time that page gets updated.
[*]Payment in any form you see fit for the energy, time and effort I spent gathering the heads I lost so easily.
[/list]


Again I am not suing them for having this rule. I am suing them for the way they reacted, for [u]not having this rule public[/u] and for using punishment [u]before[/u] they even told me what the problem was.

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by TTLexceeded

Heh, if you had told me you were going to post this, i could have helped you...

[2009-09-01 12:27:52 - Alpha 9]
HC Moderators are any players posessing the "send to gazebo" spell. This type of mods are allowed during the hc to use that spell to send back to central area any player collecting heads and staying with them in remote locations. There is no obligation for them to do that (in case they want to keep the spell cast for other uses) and there is no restriction for them using this spell only on those that they chose, but a impartial judgement is recomandable for a smooth contest evolution. HC mods do not have the power to decide winners or to penalise abuses (unless they have ways of their own), but they can spot and report abuses and you should report possible hc abuses to them. If a spell can be cast during the HC and its not limited by the interface, then it means you can use it!

The current list of players with this spell is: .Chewett.,.Pamplemousse.,.Akasha.,.yrthilian.,.Grido.,dst,.Firsanthalas.,.MRD.,.Cryxus.,*Awiiya* plus some administrative accounts not actively involved. Please note the list can change in time without notice, as people get replaced or promoted and also it is possible that the spell together with the mod title will be eventualy passed on to the wishshop.

Whoever sent you the message, be they Mur or Council, had the right to do so, I would have removed you from necro if i saw you there, for we (heads mods) have that privilege.

Plus, I sincerely hope that any LHo you asked would be able to tell you that Necro was offlimits.

Wouldn't it seem clear that after it happened 2 times someone thinks you shouldn't be there, and you could have asked someone else?

"I woke up in MDP with the heads lost."

This isn't the Send to Gazebo spell, its obvious anyone can use that. This was him waking up at Marble Dale Park.

Setting aside TTL's demands, the rules should really be copied into the HC page, it ain't that hard...
For the sake of practicality of next generations.

1st I was not sent at GoE but MDP. Therefore i had no idea it was a punishment.
2nd I did ask the second time.
3rd Why is the rule not in a place i can see it?
4th If somebody punishes me for something shouldnt he tell me what i am getting punished for? O.o I didnt know thats how authority works.

1. It's not a punishment, it's a measure taken to keep heads in areas where people can actually play.
2. No comment, as i don't know whom you asked, and what exactly you asked.
3. It's in the announcements, not hard to see that.
4. See 1. It's NOT a punishment.

Excuse me- who was it that you spoke with then?

I remember Necro having been declared offlimits a long time ago....and one has to say, in MD the rules are generally unwritten until there is a need to..basically until there's too many complaints or too many abusers.

I put it in the mood panel and i took the anonymous message which i am betting is from the council. And i am complaining about the lack of written rules. You know not everybody is in MD for centuries. Also the announcements state its GoE spell not MDP. You failed to explain why i was sent to MDP and not GoE.

Also the pm says its a rule. That specific rule is nowhere to be found. Make NV a no-heads place. "remote location" can mean anything. Plus since its supposed to be a rule then when you break rules you get punished. They didnt pm me what Chewett suggested or that they do it cause i am in a remote area but rather a rule that isnt anywhere, saying that Necrovion is off limits.

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by TTLexceeded

You can't really sue the council, because suing the council would be like suing Mur. Which, again, you can't do.

This is like telling Yrth that he can't use his Send to Gazebo spell during Heads when people are hiding, and calling it abuse.

Heads is not fair.
There is always another chance to go against people.

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by Curiose

1. Its Unfair to hide in Necrovion.
2. Heads is Unfair.
3. You cannot hide in Necrovion.

Does anyone else see something strange here?

You enter a hat store, and you see a hat you like, you put it on your head and the owner comes over and breaks your legs.

You demand to know why he did it and want reparations, and he just says: There was a sign in the store 3 years ago that said: "You can't try out hats. Whoever tries one will get his legs broken."



MD is a product... And stuff like this does not help it to sell. Even new people who are interested in MD deeper then the basics won't put up with crap for long, and will leave at some point... And then you'll get what you want: The group of people who has all those fancy spells and abilities given to them years ago playing alone, trying to get rid of their frustrations trough MD.


Also, I wouldn't mind a king pulling out TTL out of Nv for the sake of his citizens... Hey, sure, why not? Heads isn't fair. But the council, who isn't supposed to be biased stepping in and doing it because of an unwritten rule? I mean, come on.

Same thing with moderators who do it to some, and not others.

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by Ravenstrider

the only thing that might come out of this topic is that the rules might be posted.

On the other side of "someone knowing" since most of Necro is helping you, i had thought at least one of them would have been old enough to have known the rules and tell you.

Again, who says this isnt Mur?

What I find funny is that there is always somebody complaining about what happens in the heads contest.

Some complain because some use Lock spells against them.
Some complain because some beat them hard with no mercy.
Some complain because they are sent back to the gazebo or wherever else.
Some complain because they are not winning.

Well, I believe someone is having fun watching that. You know, for example the one who is posting a disclaimer in some font at the bottom of a contract... something like...
[quote][size="1"]The purpose of this test is to do a research on player behaviour in such situations, more contests of this type will come from time to time as we are constantly trying to find better ways to entertain you. Contest rules and conditions may change without notice at any time and are very likely to change close to each contest end![/size][/quote]

Can't you all complainers just try to adapt to any unfairness arising and try to have more fun than the ruler? That would certainly make your life better.

EDIT: Spelling.

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by Passant the Weak

Why don't you just go get the heads back? O.o

Well the most important thing of this topic is updating the rules. I stated the whole situation because i felt i had to. Punishment or not it doesnt really matter that much. What matters is for this type of thing not to happen again. I survived it and i am on my way to winning the HC. So no blood no foul. But do we need blood to change something? I dont think so.

This warrants repeating:
[quote name='Jester' timestamp='1306874163' post='85495']
[b]2. Heads is Unfair.[/b]
[/quote]

Even if it wasn't a 'rule' someone could do it anyway if they have the power and inclination to.


[s]I am however going to look into this because there is no send to MDP spell as far as I am aware.[/s]
Edit: this event was noted but is unfortunately a case of non repudiation.

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by Rendril

I think you don't quite see that you didn't break a rule, and weren't punished.

You have every right to go and hide where ever you see fit, and other people have the right to get you out of there.

There is absolutely no rule that you can't try to hide, but there is also no rule that says you mustn't be unhidden against your will. The people who can do that have the power for a reason after all.

So, you ask for a rule that doesn't exist to be listed on a sheet somewhere?

(Argh, and Rendril was faster <.<)

Edited May 31, 201115 yr by Burns

Well i got an anonymous pm the last time i jumped back to NV after an MDP teleport. There are only a few people in the realm with that power. If its not a rule then these people dont know what they are saying since the pm says and i quote:
[quote]Head contest [u][i][b]rules[/b][/i][/u]
You are not allowed to go to places where only few players can go during the Head contest. Necrovion is one of them because you can enter it (edited for spoiler) or by spell. Or in your case by jump to leader. But the rest of the people do not have the options.

So please stay out of Necrovion.[/quote]

Okay, so after digging out the rules, here is what I found:

[quote name='announcement 2008-06-30 23:36:38 - Alpa 6']
During heads competition, players that are away on distant lands such as Golemus, and take advantage of that to increase their heads score, will get heavily penalised.. RPC's are requested to immediatly return such players to nomans land and report such player activity.. Current areas where this rule applies: Golemus Golemicarum, deep levels of Necrovion, Loreroot and Marinds Bell islands, Passage of war. All other areas are allowed as hiding places during the competition.[/quote]

I knew of the rules long ago when I just started playing and could still participate in heads, but to be honest I kinda forgot it until it was brought up again now. But even though I knew of its existence, digging up where to find this announcement is still not a very easy task. I could easily imagine how a newer player would not now of the existence of this rule, not to mention that some recent changes might prompt people to think those rules are not being applied as written anymore (GG is accessible to everyone now, as is most of LR, Angiens shrine was free for all till a few days ago.. and how about Tribunal?)..

As Rhaegar have done so above, I recommend that these rules be updated into the contest page. While I've personally read all the announcements as they come out, I do feel it's a bit hard to expect newer players to go through all those announcements, especially since some of the earlier contents are overridden with newer ones.

I agree with Udgard that it is hard to dig the announcements BUT if something happens to you during heads (or this can be a general thing) and you have no idea WHY then it's your job to ask: WHY?? There are places where you can find the info and 98% of the time that place is the announcements. Not in announcements? Then ask an LHO.

Also...why are you so sure it's the council? As you know, we kind of have a god account (or more...who the h*** knows how many actually) that is allowed to play with...players.

Rules in the HC page? Yes. They should be there. But let's be honest: we have bigger problems to solve then some rules in a page... I know it looks easy to do it but I guess that in practice is not that easy otherwise it would have been done ages ago.

*mumbles something about taxis*

My question is: would you have minded if you were sent to GOE and not MDP? Think that you could have been ported there and you would have never found out that it was not one of the HC moderators. And what if one of HC mods would have teled you? Would you have sued that person?

Now seriously, do you really expect an official answer? You already received a PM. I would call you lucky as h*** if you will receive a second one .

Anyway, good luck with HC!

Edited June 1, 201115 yr by dst

I believed rules were simple:
1. previous winners cannot get heads from fight,
2. you get heads from fights only if you attack; victory you get all heads, win - only 2 if your opponent have them,
3. at some point stage II is activated and lasts 2 days;
4. you score if you are active in scoring locations and proportionally to number of heads: during stage two only activity at GoE counts; in stage all non-santuary location are scoring; you loose heads and score for inactivity
4. you may hide but the better hiding spot you choose the higher probability someone may consider HC not hot anough and call you back to civilization
It seems that both TTL and the party recalling him followed these simple rules so do not see reasons for complaining for anybody...

@dst:
Of course i wouldnt sue the person i would simply ask why. Also send to GoE spell to be teleported there makes sense and gives me a clue that i broke a rule. Getting to MDP without anything really to indicate i did something wrong, and without a spell being used then i am sorry but it is confusing. As for an HC mod teleporting me that again would make me think of the reason that happened. But an invisible force while i was idle? You got to be kidding me... I am not suing them for teleporting me though, i am suing them for the way they reacted. they used no spell (in the triggers at least), they did it 5-6 times, i asked in the mood panel from the second time and only after they failed 4 times i got a pm with the rule. I dont question the rule, i question the way they reacted and the lack of rules in the official HC page. And of course i asked about the teleport to MDP and most people-veterans-LHO-mods had no clue such a thing even existed.

Edited June 1, 201115 yr by TTLexceeded

Wait..I think you missed a point there: I, as a HC moderator, don't need to explain why i sent you to GOE . I can send you whenever i want without any reason. And I can send you as many times as I wish (ok...if i have enough spell casts).


Anyway I'm looking forward to see the outcome of this cause you're battling the wind mills

I believe the rule states that you can't be in the DEEPER Necrovion.

Outer Necrovion isn't specified as being out of bounds, but Inner Necrovion is?

I really don't care what the outcome is, but I am just point out what the announcement says...