Short summary:

I made a combination deal with Nimrodel about my LR papers - She pays up tokening of my drach to Junior, and then she gets my LR papers (the paying was also helped by Shemhazaj).

The deal she established with Junior regarding tokening my drach was this:
-Max tokening (except 3 tokens my drach already had) of the drach is optional, but 3 tokens are mandatory: darksky, enlighting and claw3
-payment would be given after Junior gives back the tokened drach, and the payment would be 3 silver coins for every secondary token, and 5 silver coins each for the mandatory tokens, 4gc and 6sc in total if he tokens it to the max.

Problems occurred when Junior tokened 15 tokens on the drach (all secondary, none of the mandatory tokens), and refused to continue tokening the drach, contacting me directly for a higher payment, asking Loreroot Papers for himself. After I refused, he eventually spoke to Nimrodel again, asking that I give all my drachorn items to him for him to finish the tokening and return the drach. Obviously, I refused the second blackmail as well.

After Nimrodel and I talked with several people, Junior got upset and sent back the CTC of the drach (in the same tokened status where he stopped), asking for the payment of his current tokening as well, even tho he didn't follow the agreement that was settled between him and Nimrodel (as was said, none of the mandatory tokens were on the drach - the creature details were checked via a clickable, due to the CTC he sent)


Now I want to push this to the court of MD cause with this trade violation, I was damaged with losing my max drach, losing age on it, losing wins on it, and I will have to move mp6 to max it again for basically nothing (those 15 tokens Junior did put on him are of no interest to me, and he even asks me to pay for them, even tho he didn't follow up the trade agreement)


I have number of screenshots as evidence, and can make a general reconstruction. Also, I have a witness - Nimrodel, and few other people that can help the reconstruction of the event.

So what do you want? As for the creature I gave the ctc to nim and said to take it and that they didn't need to pay me, so like i said what are you asking for?

@Jun, out of curiosity, why did you stop tokening? if part of the arrangement allowed for fully tokening, I don't see an issue with the process having continued, but I may be missing something?

What do I want? I'll tell you what I want. Actually, I'll quote a Forum PM I've sent to you, a PM you decided to ignore, even tho I warned you on YIM to read the message I've sent on forums, even tho you answer now on this topic and prove that you were active on forums, yet didn't find the time to answer the following PM:

[quote]
A deal has been made between you, Junior, and Nimrodel, regarding tokening my drachorn.

The deal had few points:
-max tokening is optional, but following 3 tokens are mandatory: darksky, enlighting, claw3
-agreed payment of 4gc and 6sc in total will be payed AFTER you give back the tokened drachorn


You didn't follow up the procedure, and furthermore started raising your requirements for payment AFTER the drachorn was transfered to you (thus, he lost his max status, wins and age), which was regarded as blackmail.

You will either finish the trade properly, as agreed (which means that I refuse the offer you gave to Nimrodel, to return the drach, and for you to get reparations for the non-finished tokening service, considering you didn't tokened none of the MANDATORY tokens), or you will go to court.

Remember, this is a Forum PM, so I can see have you read the topic or not. If you do not respond soon after you checking this topic, I will file a lawsuit pro-haste.
[/quote]


Let's make this clear. If you ran out of money, or some unplanned thing happened to you Junior, I would take the Drach back, no problems, but what troubles me is that you asked for a higher payment in the middle of the deal that was already accepted, and you were behaving inappropriately (I would say something else, but THAT wouldn't be appropriate), and that's why I will push this to the end.

Not to mention that the only reason that you finally decided to give the CTC freely, was because of the pressure that was built by the raised concern of Nimrodel and me, by talking with certain people.
If it was some other player, a newb let's say, I wonder would you be so kind.

Edited June 11, 201115 yr by Rhaegar Targaryen

Ok well I did read the pm you just don't unpure theres cutiosr ways to read them... Second I contacted you on yim and said do as you may so therefore we are here at a lawsuit. So stol what do you want? Obviously I went with the lawsuit. And no I won't finish tokening the creature and as I said keep the tokens no pay 11 tokens aren't the end of the world to me. Yes I was ride and swore you can't sue me on that.

haha no offense to chewtt but I dont fear him. The rason I gave it back it back was cause I didnt want deal with nim's nagging.

And you guys keep saying I asked for higher payment you offered me more when I quit, so theres the validity of that point.

I'm suing you for not finishing the trade agreement that was settled, without any reasons to break it, in which damage was dealt to me (drachorn's age, wins, and the need to go to mp6 to max it again. I'm sorry to repeat this 3 times already). What's hard to understand? I want the trade agreement to be fulfilled properly ([b]the missing mandatory tokens[/b]. They are mandatory for a reason, I wouldn't go through this trade without getting them), or some kind of reparations if the first is not possible. I'm seeking for Mur's council, cause you didn't want to negotiate the unfulfilled trade (if we do not consider raising your terms majorly )

Am sorry to repeat myself too for the third time but am not finishing the service.

[quote name='Juni0r' timestamp='1307809641' post='86090']
Am sorry to repeat myself too for the third time but am not finishing the service.
[/quote]

Your decision, and I obviously respect that accordingly. Thus, the lawsuit.

Damn some people just don't know about law and suing somebody. So let me help you, what do you want my punishment to be? Jail time, money back? Once you give us that we can proceed with the lawsuit.

Junior, watch your language, this is the forum.

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1307809430' post='86089']
or some kind of reparations if the first is not possible.
[/quote]
If you are willing to pay these reparations then this is simple negotiations.

That's not a bad word so w.e. Again could he be more specific.

[quote]
I'm seeking for Mur's council, cause you didn't want to negotiate the unfulfilled trade (if we do not consider raising your terms majorly )
[/quote]

As I said, you weren't willing to negotiate properly earlier, and I don't want to chase you around to make you pay what you owe.
Pip pointed out already that I posted what I'm asking for.

If you have a proposition, make one, otherwise the process of activating this case won't stop, I'm asking for Mur's opinion/decision on the matter, I have trust in his decision regarding the case, as far as I know there wasn't need for me to ask what punishment I see fitting, I made a lawsuit for a crime that was done to me and I expect a process, that's good enough by my standards.

Besides, I cannot make a proposition myself because I have no idea what your character in MD posses and what are your resources for me to make an offer I see as fair. When I hear something, I know will it be acceptable for me or not. I wanted you just to finish what was agreed on.

This got to suing BECAUSE you were impossible to negotiate with, I don't know what YOU are expecting from me actually.

Rhaegar, state a silver/gold coin value you deem acceptable for your losses and the lack of agreed upon service.

I mentioned reparation, but I meant if Mur/Council claims him guilty, that I would be happy enough with some kind of reparation if the tokening itself isn't possible.
I know he has the credits in game to finish it but he doesnt want to, so why should I make it easier for him, so he can pick something just to let go of this?

Anyway, I don't want to settle this aside the trial. Why? Because I want him labeled as a trade scammer, so he cannot cheat around more people, especially some new players that don't know how to defend themselves.
For such things people leave MD.
I know for sure that this is not the first time Junior got accused of scamming, I was rechecking forums and there was a case when Redneck complained that Junior cheated him for 50 credits, but it couldn't be proved. I don't want to start slandering, maybe he was really innocent there, but it does make me suspicious that he is doing such things all the time.

Granos was temporarily banned from trading, in case Jaco versus Granos. Something similar can be done to Junior too. All that is discussible, I want the trial to start, Mur himself can make a decision whichever he thinks is fitting.
It doesn't have to involve some kind of major punishment, in my opinion, just something to make people cautious when they trade with this 'veteran', and my trade agreement fulfilled would certainly be a plus too

You demand a punishment for Junior because he put some tokens on it and gives it back to you for free? Very interesting, imo.

You know, a punishment for attempted blackmail, yeah, okay. But for giving you more than you had before, without any loss for you but the effort of getting some wins again? That just makes you look stupid.

And the demand to have it tokened by Mur because Junior doesn't want to makes you look greedy on top of it, too.

The response is hiding somewhere in my previous 6 posts. You're just taking things out of context and ignoring most of things.

Trade was agreed. He took the drach, and stopped the trade in the middle, asking for a higher payment to continue. When his initial demand was refused, he asked for more (first loreroot papers, then drachorn items). When he was put to pressure under of a lawsuit, he gave the CTC away.

Conclusion:
He did not "hand the drachorn out" once he 'realized' he won't be finishing the deal.


I would rather destroy those 15 extra tokens he placed on them, if it would return the max status/wins/age (and yeah, I decide what is damaging to me and what is not, some people don't get 6000 wins daily, and you know very well that wins are very useful on creatures) of the drach that was transferred. He did not accomplish not one paragraph of a trade, -NONE- of the mandatory tokens were placed on the drach.

Did he mention to you why did he stop tokening it? Of course he didn't.

If my goal for the [b]Agreed Trade[/b] to be fulfilled look greedy to you, then I suppose you should question yourself a bit.

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1307904617' post='86152']
You demand a punishment for Junior because he put some tokens on it and gives it back to you for free? Very interesting, imo.You know, a punishment for attempted blackmail, yeah, okay. But for giving you more than you had before, without any loss for you but the effort of getting some wins again? That just makes you look stupid.And the demand to have it tokened by Mur because Junior doesn't want to makes you look greedy on top of it, too.
[/quote]

You seemed to have missed the crucial part, He will need MP6 to level it up again, which in my view is actually quite a pain.

He broke the trade and has to make reparations for it, very well, but if he doesn't do the tokening, he simply doesn't do that.
That is like, you ask a guy to build a house for you, he starts, and leaves it unfinished. No force in the world can force him to finish it if he really doesn't want to, and you have no right that anybody else does it for you, either. You just get reparations for the bits you paid and didn't get.

As it is, you get more tokens than you had before, without paying for it.

If the agreement had been to get you a maxed tokened drach, you'd have to get reparations for that, too, but that is an impossible agreement, you'd have it as egg this way or that. You're not any bit worse on that front than if he had completely fulfilled the agreement.

PS: Don't argue about what is legal and what isn't with a lawyer. Especially not when he's studying for an exam.

Edited June 12, 201115 yr by Burns

Let's not get to extremes and your presumptions on what would I do, shall we?

It's not just about not finishing trade, I try to be understanding in such things, but he tried blackmailing me, basically, please don't forget that.
I understand that I cannot really expect a 'Christmas miracle', to expect I will get my drach tokened really. I just pointed out what my goal is, I'm sorry if it's unrealistic, if it cannot happen it won't, this isn't dependent on my desires, once the trial starts Mur will ask me what I would like if that matters at all, as you imply it does.

You're again taking things out of context..

Personally, I would be happy enough if I don't get nothing out of this trial, if only steps are made for people to know how risky trading with Junior is, official-wise (that means via a trial).
It's not that the thing Junior did to me is an end of the world... It is a pain in the bottom, but, nothing all that serious. Question yourself, what would happen if he did this to a newer player?

Edited June 12, 201115 yr by Rhaegar Targaryen

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1307906981' post='86156']
He broke the trade and has to make reparations for it, very well, but if he doesn't do the tokening, he simply doesn't do that.
That is like, you ask a guy to build a house for you, he starts, and leaves it unfinished. No force in the world can force him to finish it if he really doesn't want to, and you have no right that anybody else does it for you, either. You just get reparations for the bits you paid and didn't get.

As it is, you get more tokens than you had before, without paying for it.
[/quote]

Your comparison was totally wrong. Let me put it this way. Rhaegar asked junior to modify his house by adding a garden. He said the garden was a mandatory addition but the backyard would be a bonus. Junior built half the backyard, and for some reason said he would stop the work. Rhaegar now has a half built backyard he doesnt need and he doesnt have a garden for which he bargained in the first place. If a contract has been established, it is Junior's headache to see that its completed. If he's broken the contract, Rhaegar has every reason to sue him and ask him to finish the garden because that was what the deal stated.

He gets more tokens than he had before... The ones he never really wanted and were just a bonus. [b]He wouldn't have given the GG if junior wouldnt have said he'd add the mandatory tokens.[/b] How difficult is it for you to understand that simple fact?

This is closed for now, Mur can open and post as he wishs.

If any of the concerned parties, Rheagar or Junior wish to post something they should contact me.

i am sorry but its a very busy period for me and I will be away for about a week. Are you sure this can't be handled by council?

Thanks

I guess it can, but they haven't responded to my email.

Edited June 15, 201115 yr by Rhaegar Targaryen

After I talked with Junior, I took the drachorn back, understanding that the lawsuit will still continue for my violated ( ) rights.

Yes just to reassure my counter part in this lawsuit we agreed that he would indeed take the drach. Meanwhile the lawsuit for his "violated" (giggles)"rights" shall continue. (giggles). Also on behalf of the plaintiff and defendant we ask the council to please acknowledge this lawsuit a swiftly as possible.

Edited June 16, 201115 yr by Juni0r