Metal Bunny

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='10 October 2009 - 03:43 AM' timestamp='1255139038' post='44227'] Wodin doesn't have a personality of his own anymore. [/quote] Getting a tiny bit tired of people disputing this. What Pipstickz says here is true. I'll hand you personal proof. Although, the moment Burns is going to change the papers, the proof will be sort of gone, except for the memory of older players. If you read Wodin's papers, it will speak of honor and a moving fighting circus or something like that. These papers were made like.. 6 months ago. Maybe more. He also had a paper that talked about how he hates shades and fights them to the last breath. H-eh, yeah right. The real Wodin quit playing a very long time ago. So no he doesn't have his own personality anymore. [quote][2008-08-28 04:09:44 - Alpha 7] Intriguing change, but what else to expect in an unusual game other than an unusual event. Master Wodin is now no longer the person you knew before, but its a public role, occupied/invoked by whoever will rule the Guerrila Golemicarum alliance. The .Wodin Ullr. character was apperantly deserted by its rightfull owner, but because he achieved such a huge popularity, the character will permanently remain in the game even if its owner will change from time to time. This unusual change is the first step towards predefined game roles that regular player can occupy if they fulfill certain requirements. I am open to opinions on this. If the feedback is good, other deserted rpc roles will become open as public role, and some even specialy created for that, if not, then i will keep deserted characters just as legends in the game and allow owners to resume them anytime they want. Please use the forum for feedback. This is a very important decision for the game future expansion. [/quote] More than 13 months ago he quit playing. If you count his little break of MD then you can easily say that Wodin quit a very, very long time ago. Yes, he was popular back then and this is listed as a reason to keep him as a public character. Back then, he was still one of the strongest players, because he had one of the highest profile stats and the real Wodin knew a lot about rituals. Is he popular now? Hah, don't make me laugh. Is he strong now? Not only are his stats and principles ridiculously low compared to the really strong (which means that Wodin would have to train at least for a year (or about the time the real wodin was gone) to come back to the top) and his knowledge about rituals (with exception of now, with burns at the steeringwheels) was deplorable. I even gained on Wodin with activity days. And the majority of the time, Yrthilian was controlling him. What do you mean? The revolt was nothing but a petty attempt at revenge? You newbies don't know jack. To be honest, I feel that the legacy the real Wodin had left has been tarnished by months and months of neglect. I believe honestly that the current Wodin either has to train for an ungodly long time, or to become a symbol and retire, like KC. I could go on about what the real Wodin wanted and what he said about the current state of business. But the way he left the game (he reset his entire character) should say enough. *edit* Just saw that Burns had removed those 2 papers, with the exception of the honor one and the rules, which fit wodin's character more.

Happy b-day

The GG alliance will be a democratic alliance with meritocratic flavours. The alliance recognizes two classes. The Triumvirate; consisting of *Burns*, .Grido. and .Metal Bunny. The people; consisting of civilians, mages, soldiers and everyone else, as long as they are in the alliance. The Triumvirate are the caretakers of the alliance. They are charged with the duty of overseeing everyday business and organization. Each member of the Triumvirate has a certain section s/he is responsible for, such as military, research or diplomacy. It is not an elected position. The members of the Triumvirate may step down or bring forth a candidate for the Triumvirate, based purely on meritocratic reasons. But if that candidate becomes a member of the Triumvirate, we’ll probably have to change the name. The people are just that, the people. They perform their duties, tasks or research. To be invited to the alliance, one has to be a citizen of the land itself and be motivated enough to work in the alliance. To apply, ask one of the Triumvirate. Having people inside the alliance recommending you helps to get you invited. The democratic aspect of the alliance is simple. Both classes can put forth a call to vote on an issue and the people vote on it. The Triumvirate does not have any votes at all, except when there is a tie. As such, the people decide the long term purpose and goals of the alliance; whereas the Triumvirate does its best to make sure it is fulfilled and that growth is sustained. As such, most of the orders, if not all of them, are indirectly from the people. As such, you have to listen to the Triumvirate and follow their orders. If you do not feel comfortable with their orders then you will be warned once and after that kindly asked to leave. If you wish to protest against it, then call for a vote, if there hasn’t been one yet. The people are also not allowed to invite someone else, but they may recommend someone to the Triumvirate. The people and the triumvirate are allowed to curse and have their own opinion, but should not cross any blatant and obvious lines or use inappropriate language in copious amounts. Cheating or violating any other rule of the realm itself will not be tolerated. For matters that are greater than the alliance itself, and concern the land as a whole, the voting will be different. The people will still get to vote and the Triumvirate still have to cut the knot when there is a tie, but with matters that concern the land, important dignitaries who are of great influence to the land will have a chance to vote as well. Currently, the people may call a new vote whenever they want to on a new issue and one on an old issue when there are 7 new/different members or 2 months have passed.

I'm in charge of the military of the alliance. While calling me general would be appreciated, calling me the 'little general' will not. The military distinguishes 5 classes. Non-military; such as civilians and mages or researchers. Recruits. These are people in training. Soldiers. They are finished with training and have to perform their duties and they get paid 2 silver per year. Officers. They have distinguished themselves and perform duties as well as give orders. They are paid 4 silver per year. Triumvirate. The leaders, with me being the one who leads it on a fixed basis, but the other two can give orders as well. To become a recruit, you have to be in the alliance first and you have to have basic knowledge about rituals as well as adequate profile stats. You will have to vow an oath of fealty to the land of Golemus and swear to protect it. To become a soldier, you have to have completed your training as a recruit and have a good set of profile stats. To become an officer, you have to be a warrior of renown as well as expert knowledge of rituals. You also need some experience as a soldier and have excelled at some duties.

Liberty, I think you are mistaken. Yrthilian may stay king, but that doesn't mean he is entitled to the alliance, nor that we are no longer inhabitants of GG. And Peace did say she would return the alliance to the /people/ of GG, not one person.

One issue that bothered me was kind of nitpicking one. The part where you ask us to put in your arguments, politely asks us to keep things short. But when I shift through the arguments, I notice that one extremely long post had 9 points, but all the arguments in them were basically already in the forum. So what are we supposed to do next time? Let one person make an enormous list of logical reasoning and compelling arguments, let him/her post it on the forum, so that everyone can quote him/her? (that is what I /will/ do next time such a petition comes along. It's all about loopholes and circumventing the system, in order to make it stronger) What I suggest is that instead, you let people make a really long list of arguments and reasons and all the other stuff, and let them debate about it. Then, you pick every single reason and argument and put it in a list. Then you let the 100 people vote on those reasons and arguments, letting them grade them on a scale of 1-10. With below 5 negative. Above 6 positive and 5&6 neutral. Or something like that. Then you add in the reputation and the land affiliation. And then you put in a last small box to allow people to comment something small or give one last extra reason. This way, less reading, and everyone is aware of all the reasons and arguments. *edit* Oh and if people think that a reason is totally off-topic or too stupid for words, you can add in a '0' or '?' option. Making it not count or something. *edit edit* Oh and if maybe you really like to read Mur, then perhaps you can change the 1-10 thingy for each reason into a tiny bar where people can write what they think of it. So for example (1-10 based vote) Yrthilian is paranoid/untrustworthy as a leader as he exiled his nr.2 1-4 is negative, with 1 being more negative than 4. 5&6 is neutral, with 5 being slightly more negative than 6. 7-10 is positive, with 10 being more positive than 7. example (tiny-bar-to-write-what-you-think variant) Yrthilian is paranoid/untrustworthy as a leader as he exiled his nr.2 I say yes, because a leader has to keep his people in mind first. Exiling Grido was a sure sign of paranoia. (this would be like.. an 8 or 9 on the 1-10 scale) I say no, because a king has the right to do whatever he wants to. Grido had to accept it and he's just doing this now out of petty revenge. (2-4 on the 1-10 scale) I say yes and no, because while a king has the right to do whatever he wants to, a king should still keep in mind the consequences of his actions. Exiling your nr.2 is a very drastic thing to do, even if Grido in some sense was betraying his king through non-action. Maybe some reprimand or warning would have been better at the time, even if betrayal, if you wish to see that dilemma as such, is a gross offense during war time, or any time. (this would be a 5-6 on the 1-10 scale)

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' date='08 October 2009 - 04:50 AM' timestamp='1254970249' post='43968'] I wonder what the consequences will be for these actions...Would not be surprised to see Yrthilian "clean House" and exile all of the GG members who actively promoted the idea of His deposing...(By this I mean players such as Metal Bunny, not players like Cryxus who was able to argue both sides, and therefor remain clearly neutral) [/quote] Here's a fact for all the newbies, regardless of whether or not you see yourself as one. I don't have access to GG. Never had. Me, one of the oldest players and RPC's, has no access to his homeland. So how can I get exiled? Also, Yrthilian remains king. But as it is with the necrovion alliance, being king doesn't necessarily entitle you to the alliance. I also have 1 bugged spell and the inner magic doc reward spell. I am the most non-spell RPC there is. (Hardcore RPC ftw , some PWR's have more abilities than I do) Seeing as how wanting and trying to dethrone someone, is not against the game rules, I will not be demoted for this. I never took creatures, so you can't take mine. I never took items, so you can't take mine. As such; there is very, very little you can punish me with. You know what this means? We-stay-in-power. And of course I am not going to debate both sides, I'm the one who revolted along side with Grido. Grido and I have equal parts in this.

This is such a superb example of why democracy is the worst form of government, except all other that have been tried. The people who voted just read the first few lines of the topic, thought to themselves; waitaminute, a king has the right to exile someone; and then just voted based upon that. At half of the votes do I not see the heavier reasons, of which not the exile itself, but the implications of the exile was but a part of. Such as, bad judgement, bad leadership, inactivity, proliferation of the alliance, inactivity of wodin, paranoia in the sense that he was extremely distrusting of others as well as burning a soul, given to wodin in good trust to him, just to regain his power. Exile was just a tiny part of this. Ugh.. and yes, if you haven't noticed by now, this is me, not conceding defeat.

Lol, happy bday to the both of you

That is so nasty, it's brilliant. You evil, evil man. This is far better than sticking an axe in my head.

[quote name='Lifeline' date='01 October 2009 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1254408640' post='43413'] i find this whole situation laughable. u want to get rid of a king that in ur point of view hasnt served his land correctly in the near past. then please judge the king on what he did. not just on his own land but compared to all other lands. get an impression of all 4 main lands how they were led and if the person in charge did a good job. make an average and if yrth is way below the performance of all the other dispose him. if he did perform just as good as the leaders of the other lands why replace him then? if u want to replace him then u cant just count on the hatred from the war to take him out u will have to state what u try to accomplish and above all do better than yrth. [/quote] Glad you find it humorous. Take an average of the lands? I will and the result is that, yes, Yrthilian has performed badly, duh, why else are we doing this? Have you even read the reasons why (and not just the burning of K and the ousting of Grido one's, there are more). [quote] and btw there was obviously a traitor in the alliance that invited peace in and made this whole situation happen. and now members of the alliance revolt against yrth because of what he did in response to stealing the alliance? could it not be possible that this was done on purpose? make him loose the alliance, hope he acts on revenge later on, and then bring up that he is not fit to rule to take it urself? i mean no offence with this and have no clue who the traitor is i just speak of this being a possibility. so please dont take it for more, i dont want to offend any gg member here with this. [/quote] Again, it's not just that single action, it is the total of all his bad actions together, and if you still don't get it. It's not just his /bad/ actions, it's also his inactivity. Have you seen how many activity days wodin dropped? I have, and while the total measurement of activity days is not a good and accurate measurement, the /lack/ of activity days is. Wodin is an empty and dead, almost hollow character. And it is not just about Wodin. Yrthilian himself spends an amazing time at his lab, researching. Inside the alliance I felt almost no unity, no kinship with anyone, contrary to when Wodin was in charge. There was a decline after wodin left, yes, but the growth that was to come never fully came. And that was under yrthilian's leadership. Compared to the current growth of Necrovion and how Loreroot recouperated after GG had invaded, I find that yrthilian did an inadequate job. [quote] a king cant be taken down by an election dont u agree? a king is a king he decides who gets which statues and job. if u want another status than the king gave u then u have to revolt. especially when u want to title of king then u have to force it. u need to take the king down. there is no election there is a forcefull revolution. think about this again i guess this makes sense to all parties... [/quote] I had hoped I wouldn't have to explain this, because I assumed it was so simple already. Of course holding a mere vote is not enough to oust someone. You would have to get control over the alliance first and guess what? We do. In fact, the military coup is done already, all this vote is doing, is ending this military coup, as it is legitimizing the coup based upon popularity votes. [quote] a revolution has to be thought through well. it has to be very clear who gets the new king title afterwards. otherwise the land will just be in more chaos. a revolution weakens the land greatly. if the revolution army cant even decide on a king themself then the land is doomed and sooner or later another revolution will take place because the last one was obviously not successful and didnt bring structure into the land. now Metal Bunny says: what is this? doesnt sound planned or thought through at all to me. there is no promised structure after the revoltion and disposing of the king. this can just bring more chaos and hurt the land more if there is so little planning being done. this cant be claimed to be for the good of golemus as a land. such an unplanned revolution or whatever it is now will just weaken the land more and more. GG will loose all its respect if its possible to overthrow the land without a new agenda and just more chaos to wait until finally a new leader is elected. [/quote] You want real concrete plans? I have them, but again, I won't post them here because it's off-topic. It creates chaos and ensures a 3 page long off-topic debate and makes it all chaotic. And you need to ask yourself in what status the land is in now, because it's already chaotic. But the moment GG starts recruiting again, and that will be the moment yrthilian is de-throned or stays on the throne, then order will return. You people are putting all of this waaaaay toooo muuuuch into the real life perspective, but that's not possible! Where is death? How does loyalty go into all of this? What about Mur? This is MagicDuel, stop making quite frankly, useless real life analogies. [quote] isnt it said u get what u already have in MD? how can u simply elect people for kingship then by popularity? u have to proof that u have the potential to be a king. u need to be able to stand up against the tyrant and take his status. u have to fight for it and go through with the revolution and then put urself into that position because it was u who managed to take down the old king. it is what proofed that u as a future king can stand up agaist a possible threat. if u just lean back afterwards and run an election u obviously dont have what it takes to be king. and above all u lagged all preparation u just "beheaded" the old king and left the land in chaos afterwards just waiting for something to happen to bring structure back into it. u have to bring that structure urself and nobody else if u want a strong land. [/quote] Potential for king? I know I do. When wodin left, yrthilian, me and savelfuser ruled together and it worked out fine. Then savelfuser went to loreroot and I decided to advise yrthilian, as I was too busy with RPC and mp6. I am the frigging emperor of bunnies, you want potential? I give you the fact that since yrthilian no longer commands GG, is proof enough that potential is not the real issue here, it's proven conduct of the leader in the past. If you want more potential and plans, then once yrthilian is de-throned, I will make a seperate topic and put it all there. All of these questions are not the real issue. And why will I not make this topic now? [i][u]Because I am not arrogant enough to presume to know what Mur wants or will do.[/u][/i] For all I know, Yrthilian will stay king and then that topic will become useless.

There has been lot's of debating about what a king is and what it should imply. I firmly believe that since this is MagicDuel, the normal definition of king cannot truly imply the definition used in real life. Namely, a single leader, either through military ascendency to power or hereditary, who bases the foundation of it's rule on (usually) either god(s) or the people. Though god(s) are used more often. Mur is the only thing here that comes close to the real life equivalent of 'god(s)', simply because he made it and can do anything with it what he wants. BUT, Mur is different from real life god(s). Because Mur manifests himself clearly and evidently and Mur interacts with the people on a far greater level and from that interaction we know that he can change things, if the people ask for it enough, with adequate reasoning. So, divine mandate is much more akin to either story-related mandate or popularity mandate, which is the same as the people. A king in MagicDuel is either in the form of Khalazdad, a story-related mandate, or in the form of popularity mandate, which applies to Yrthilian. So yes, a vote here is equal to a military coup, simply because his main 'strong' supporters, Grido and me (if you were wondering why we are 'strong', it's because we are RPC's and can influence the game in a 'higher-than-average' way) not only stopped supporting him, but started the coup against him. This also applies because death is also of a different meaning here. As for people asking what will happen next if Yrthilian was indeed to be disposed. While I had already given a quick list of reasons to what I would do, somewhere in this topic, I refrain from doing it here further in detail, because of another post I made here. Namely, that this topic is about the dethroning of Yrthilian only, and it is not supposed to be an immediate 'election' for the rest. I want to do this because it keeps things orderly and on-topic. And it would be a bit chaotic with voting, no? But, you are correct in the sense that people still need to hold a more concrete alternative, which is why I came forward. If there is no one better or more suited to the task of leading GG, then I will take it. If there is someone else more suited or popular, then I will gladly advise him/her. But let this be clear, I will not replace one king with another, a new and improved democratic or meritocratic system is to be set in place to prevent one sided rulings which go against the main perceived and potential prosperity of GG.

Inside a monarchy, a king supposedly holds all the power. That's what he thinks and if he claims divine mandate, that is what the majority of the people thinks. But that is so very wrong. The balance of power is just that, it needs a counterweight. History speaks unkindly about kings and emperors who treat their counterweights, such as the people or skilled and trusted advisors, in equal unkindness. Just ask Nero and his successor (not counting the couple of temporary ones, I'm talking about Vespasianus). A system could be created to brainwash a people in its entirety so greatly, indeed that they would fall victim more easily to a big lie than a small one, that inside the system, the supreme ruler would go on unquestioned and it's victims ridiculed. Authoritarian systems are such systems and monarchies are authoritarian systems. (not counting the current version of parliamentarian monarchies). But when the ruler does something that the people can no longer swallow or endure, they lash out in equal force towards the ruler. Indeed, the greater the grievance, the greater the resistance. So yes, you are wrong lifeline, because while it is a monarchy, it doesn't mean there have never been any complaints nor that they shouldn't be allowed to come out. And while it is a monarchy, a king has to think very carefully what he does to his subordinates.

To clarify, I remained hidden in particular to see what the vote would look like in a more pure basis. I wanted to see how people would vote when it would come down to just the "de-throning or non de-throning" of yrthilian. I in particular did not want to see a result that would be based on a "yrthilian vs. metal bunny" poll. I have the best of intentions for GG and so does yrthilian, we just differ entirely on how to do it.

Well, the powerful backer is no longer anonymous. It’s me. I remained anonymous in the start because I wanted to get support first and a solid place to start from. I wanted to know what other people thought first. Now I do. If you think that doing this anonymous from the start was a mistake and it makes me a coward, then that’s your opinion. But the fact that I came forward this soon, should say enough. I have no intention of gaining power without the responsibilities. I do not shirk from them. I supported Yrthilian in the past, because I thought he would be a good leader, perhaps even, better than me. For those who don’t know, after Wodin left, savelfuser, yrthilian and I were the leaders. After savelfuser left I supported yrthilian because at that point, I had little ambition or enthusiasm to help govern the alliance. I was busy being mp6 and RPC back then. That was a long time ago and for a long time I noticed the GG alliance grow, bit by bit. But I also saw it stagnate. I waved them off, these things happen. Then, things suddenly started escalating. GG had fought in two wars in a short amount of time, causing much suffering, not just for the enemies, but for the inhabitants of GG as well. Tales of friendship, /regardless of ingame or irl/ that suffered. Yrthilian allowing KoB to take necrovion slaves. Despite what my really outdated and old description says, I am currently against slavery. I noticed the unjust treatment of Marvolo, son of a very good and legendary friend, Khalazdad. I also noticed that Wodin Ullr was a lifeless and silent husk of what he used to be. A good friend. I then heard from yrthilian himself about ripping the cube apart. I express extreme regret about not having stopped him nor making any attempt at doing so. I was not at the scene at the time, I missed the gate. But having Khalazdad as another lifeless slave cannot be condoned in my opinion. Yrthilian writes this off as a YIM war. You want roleplay? The reasons I gave are roleplay enough. In fact, I do not list as reason the YIM war, what I list as a reason is yrthilian casually dismissing his 2nd in command. What’s that about? Complete and total exile? If you are willing, as a roleplayer, to sacrifice a good man’s innocent soul, the soul of a good friend and father to many, the soul which was given to Wodin in /good trust/, just to reclaim power, then you are not a good and just king. Then you are not my king. Then you are nothing but a man hell bent for power. If you roleplay that, you roleplay a paranoid man. You know me and most of the other active RPC’s know me. I am objective and often neutral. But GG is my homeland and I will not stand by any longer to watch how GG suffers. I am not saying that I would be a good leader. What I am saying is that yrthillian in my eyes, has proven himself to be inadequate as a leader. What about me? I do not wish to be king. Regardless of whether or not I would become king or not, I will first and foremost be Emperor of Bunnies. But the bunnies are inhabitants of GG as well and if GG suffers, then they suffer as well. If I were allowed to lead the alliance, I would do what should have been done. Get peace, concentrate more on the interior, give Wodin his just respect and lay his weak body to rest. I would be far more inclined to call for diplomacy, instead of war. I would keep the foundations of the GG alliance true. Instead of researching many things in my lab somewhere hidden in GG, I would strive to make my alliance to look far more like the MR alliance, which in my opinion is a true fighter’s alliance, like Wodin would have wanted. Before yrthilian became king he was a researcher, a scientist. Tell me, how does a researcher lead a fighter’s alliance? But that is what I would do if I were to gain leadership. My main intent is to make sure that yrthilian does not gain leadership. If someone more suited to the task becomes the leader, then so be it, I do not mind.

My riddles are ridiculously hard. And I'm so awesomeness, people have to squint to look at me to see through the pure radiant awesomeness...

Uh Aql, we can't see which ones you won

I died pretty quickly , wasn't fast enough with changing my def rit I did kill raven though Ugh, the thing won't let me use the full editor, so I can't re-post the image. I didn't upload it the first time apparently. Someone merge/delete my posts?

Happy B-Day

Oh that was just beautiful, absolutely beautiful.

Or... We have a churchill and not a chamberlain. (NO, I AM NOT COMPARING JESTER TO HITLER) I mean, seriously jester, you did start talking about instigating war, so we do have a cause and reason. Whether or not it is a just cause or reason, that is entirely debatable. But really, did you not expect this? With Wodin as our alliance's founder, I mean, really? It's like you, a nation and it's leader, talks about war. Then it becomes surprised when one of the /very, very few/ neighbours pre-emptively strikes. I mean, really? Isn't it just a tiny bit naïve to think that /everyone/ would wait until you attacked them in their homeland? Now, we can debate all we want about the justness and righteousness about this war. We could go back and forth about the real cause of war. We could point fingers and we could, from both sides, argue that we are the right side and that the enemy deserves to be punished and that the enemy is actually a tyrant. GG could argue that Jester was the first to speak of aggression and war and that we had to attack first to make sure that the "evil" (heh, whatever) never spread to our lands. Necro could argue that the talks were just flim-flam and nonsense and that it was supposed to be collegial and all that other fluffy-like rubbish. Necro could continue to argue that since GG attacked first, that they are the aggressor and that they are the "evil" that needs to be repelled as the barbaric and tyrannous invaders that they are. OR, you could all calm down and realize that it's a war and no war is just. No war is good. No war is desirable from the perspective of the realm as a whole, with the possible exception of the winner, under certain circumstances. I argue that both sides are wrong. Jester shouldn't have been talking about war and yrthilian shouldn't have attacked necro so fast from the inside. But, this I argue from the entire realm's perspective. My own perspective is different. Stop being so pretentious and don't play the victim card. If you really mean it, then why are you not fighting back? You think pity and angry words will repel invaders? I myself, being in the GG alliance, am all for the war. And people who know me, know that I am not very shy for war. And I expect some fierce resistance, especially after all that war-talk. So where is it? Have we already won? Again? Don't make excuses and fight me like a true warrior, fight me as if I was indeed a real tyrant. Fight me!

Yes, because the harm implied is low.