Ivorak

Why isn't a butterfly suiting for Necrovion? Butterflies live in deserts.

Just like dowsers or woodcutters sell their resources. (Dowsers getting undermined heavily though)

I'd really like to see the land vault from the different lands finally done as promised, with each land having their respective set of tools: My guess is Mur either forgot or wants to test how differently they are governed. As it is however, Golemus has the tools that are "worth" more, with other lands being promised but not receiving.

Tools can be grouped into: Restricted to land (with few exceptions), no restrictions, restricted by location.

If we go by that...land, or the exceptions sometimes still deplete or break land rules, no restriction means complete depletion usually, while location allows governing better but is also imperfect (theoretically a renegade could mess it up badly). Then there is the case where independent is actually better than shared (sand melters), which really makes me think Mur was testing and watching results and then forgot.

la
[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1325888854' post='100185']
Land laws applying to everybody would be ridiculous.
[/quote]

What is ridiculous about the laws of the land not applying to a non citizen when he is in that land.
When you move/visit another land, the laws of that land apllies to you as long as you stay in that land., even if you want it or not. Those laws not applying to people not from a land, but still staying inside the land is ridiculous.

[quote]I want herbs to be the most accessible resource[/quote]
taken from the herbs thread,
It doesnt say anything about it being available to anyone. only the most accessible one. Could as well mean the lots of large patches of herbs as it is now.
Making herbbaskets loreroot only would fit with the tools of other lands.

Ok so the conclusion is this one: you can't prove Eon is using alts to benefit his main. You do not have solid proofs otherwise you would have probably opened a case against him. What you do? You start screaming that he's being protected because he's a supporter and you stand no chance in a trial. How LAME is that? And how coward do you look?
You simply make me sick!

YOU accuse Eon of being guilty! YOU need to prove he's guilty. So stop the bs by asking HIM to provide proofs that he's NOT guilty when you can prove he is.

it's interesting you mentioned the word 'hypocrisy' in title
[quote]Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have[/quote] (Wiki)
It's pretty relevant for the situation, when Neno was jailed for casting spell on Eon with his alt (to benefit his main) while everybody knows (and most mp5s spending some time in open with crits - experienced themselves) Eon keeps walking his alts to trace his main's victims months (I guess the main's benefit is not in doubt) - and was never punished for that... he collected evidence using his alt and his main was rewarded for that (same here: compare with Neno's criminal activity)
as for cowardice I have no idea why it would be relevant in the rant above, after all they have no unshakeable position in MD and their complains are duly noted and when they stuck toes beyond the line they will get punished, won't they? they bear full consequences of their actions.
I think it's sad they have only mood panel left to complain and be ignored there

[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1325638349' post='99551']
Sharptear = 2sc

Hedge
[/quote]
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1325702423' post='99598']
Hedge, please read the entire thread topic post.
[/quote]

That would be an initial bid, not an increase, Seigheart, from the way I see things.

24h will suffice. Not because I think that it suffices but because mur thinks that if someone is not present then he/she does not care.

[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1325638349' post='99551']
Sharptear = 2sc

Hedge
[/quote]
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1325702423' post='99598']
Hedge, please read the entire thread topic post.
[/quote]

That would be an initial bid, not an increase, Seigheart, from the way I see things.

[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1325638349' post='99551']
Sharptear = 2sc

Hedge
[/quote]
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1325702423' post='99598']
Hedge, please read the entire thread topic post.
[/quote]

That would be an initial bid, not an increase, Seigheart, from the way I see things.

The Treasure Keepers are auction off the following creatures this month:


Rustgold Drachorn
SoulWeaver
Sharptear

Start Bidding.


Gold and Silver accepted. As well as notes.

Minimum increase in a bid is: 1g

If you are to bid, at ANY point in the bidding process, a minimum bid of 1gc needs to be made.

[quote name='Hedge Munos' timestamp='1325638349' post='99551']
Sharptear = 2sc

Hedge
[/quote]
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1325702423' post='99598']
Hedge, please read the entire thread topic post.
[/quote]

That would be an initial bid, not an increase, Seigheart, from the way I see things.

[quote name='Miq' timestamp='1325703148' post='99605']


As long as it will be said so publicly by them. I don't have no intention do be accused of something shady 3 years from now.
[/quote]

I will claim the money as mine in 24h.

[quote name='Yrthilian' timestamp='1325526684' post='99398']
they have the same stance as i do. or at least that was my understanding. the leaders of alliance run their alliances as they wish as long as it does not affect
the land directly. players assume they know how the land is ruled. don't assume and speak with the alliances and stop trying to undermine something on the forum
or if you "really want to know" make a separate topic on it and not high jack this one.
[/quote]
Hijack?
Unless you forget, you told people to look around in old topics and figure out stuff about golemus, which is why I asked.
You said to look at the civil war, and the only thing that came in mind was the formation of the triumvirate. LK and Fusioneers didn't even exist then, and I don't recall the Order being involved in the war either. I can't remember clearly if the MRs was involved, but my memory says they didn't. That's why I had to ask again, since this is news to me that they are part of the ruling land leaders as well. You say don't assume, hence I ask, and what I get is "hijack?"

Undermine?
Since you don't seem to be able to understand the critique/advice implied in the last part of my post, let me spell it out for you.
You say all alliance leaders are land leaders, which means you're all in equal position. One of your council members invited a person to her alliance and you banned that person when all he did was accept the invitation. It would've been in the land's best interest if you had talked internally between your leaders instead of taking drastic measures such as what happened. Instead of showing cohesion within the highest ranks of your leaders, you show internal breakup, where one leader's decision can be overturned using such harsh measures without prior consultation. If Kiley's action was unacceptable to you, you could've asked her to ask Azull to leave, or if needed, kick him out of the alliance.
How much would it hurt to do that? At worse Azull would gain what.. 2-3 extra land loyalty depending on how long it took for you to meet? Not to mention that (according to your post) Azull had been in the alliance a week before you guys took action. Why not use the week to contact Azull or Kiley to ask him to leave until a decision has been made? Even if you're on a holiday surely the other land leaders can do it (unless it's been done and Azull/Kiley refused to cooperate, in which I apologize). Instead of doing a rash thing that has lead to so much commotion and showing internal cohesion problems, it would've been better for the land if more diplomacy and tact were used. If Kiley was not part of the land leaders, just an alliance leader, then what you did would be more acceptable. But this way you risk creating an image that Golemus leaders can't communicate well together, which would raise questions if they would be able to work well together for the good of the land.

[quote name='Azull' timestamp='1325515508' post='99386']
I have stated repeatedly, in public and to you Yrth and Grido in private, that I personally have no hostile intentions towards Golemus what so ever.

Also you yrth told me you requested the council to unban me (unless I misunderstood your pm to me)
Grido told me he would unban me on new years day if I was still in jail by then. As of this moment I am still jailed.
Now we know the council takes it's time with what they do that's fine. But Grido didn't even reply to my question why he didn't make good on his word.
Aside from any issues about use or misuse of power. Is this diplomacy? Is this the integrity of a Golemus land leader?
[/quote]

As i said repeatedly you are necrovian. This is not me saying YOU are the bad guy i am saying the long standing rule is your allegiance
to necrovian is what causes the issue. just because you didn't have the citizenship because of getting kicked from your alliance does not mean you are not seen as
necrovian. it is a mechanic that make you not a citizen. It is a mechanic i asked to be changed but has never been done.

again you say about diplomacy just speaking or as has been said many time declaring you are doing something in a different land without communication with all
the land leaders is where the break down happened. Is this how you proceed with diplomacy?? send a deceleration and say i asked??
the main underlining issue is communication on all sides. ether way what has happened has happened.

yes i did ask for you to be unban/unjailed as to why Grido did not keep to his word
have you considered he was told not to?? i can not speak for him but that would be the first thing i would have thought to be the issue

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1325520682' post='99392']
Huh? I thought there was a triumvirate or something? Just 3 person?
So is the land leaders actually all alliance leaders? Including the person who invited someone who got jailed for accepting that alliance invitation?
[/quote]

they have the same stance as i do. or at least that was my understanding. the leaders of alliance run their alliances as they wish as long as it does not affect
the land directly. players assume they know how the land is ruled. don't assume and speak with the alliances and stop trying to undermine something on the forum
or if you "really want to know" make a separate topic on it and not high jack this one.

[quote name='Kiley' timestamp='1325465447' post='99324']
Upon accepting the position as guild leader I was given full power over how the guild should be run and have acted accordingly. I do not have to go to the "land leaders" in regard to the decisions I make. I would also point out that at no time did any "land leaders" approach me about my choice to bring Azull into the guild. I woke to find him jailed and not even a pm in my box. The truly sad part behind all of this lies in the fact that Azull and I have worked many months to develop a level of trust and cooperation between lands traditionally divided. Months of work that has been washed down the drain by a rash act that lacked diplomacy and tact. I am more than disappointed in how this has been handled and would have hoped that yrth would have spoken with ME personally before jailing Azull.
[/quote]

First Kiley as a GG leader you of all players should know the land rules and know that a necrovian citizen is NOT allowed in Golemus.
as a land leader you are also expected to know better and should have know your action had a much bigger issue that you say.
It is very disappointing you decided by your self you know better how a land should accept a player into a land.

The same could have been said that you should have contacted me or the other land leaders before letting a necrovian into Golemus
you say land leader did not approach you and same in reverse.

[quote name='Passant the Weak' timestamp='1325479029' post='99338']
Going slightly offtopic: I agree with Paracelcus. Beyond the retired king thingy, there is a very strange behaviour of Golemus as a land: they jail someone, because he was invited in a GG guild.... That attitude, puts a negative light to GG in my eyes. If they had an issue with him joining that guild.... well, couldn't they have him off the guild?
[/quote]

He was told by a citizen of Golemus that he may get jailed. ALL it take is to read the land rules to know that he was not acceptable as a citizen of Golemus
So far only 1 player has been jailed that is not accepted as a citizen so your argument of the strange behaviour is mute as this is a single case of this happening.


[quote name='lashtal' timestamp='1325503329' post='99366']
Since Yrthilian's position is somehow border-line, since the decision to jail Azull was taken accordingly to the "land leaders", since neither Yrth nor the "land leaders" spoke with Kiley (who is the Fusioneers leader)...

I'd ask the "land leaders" to state clearly:

1 - who they are;
2 - why should other Golemians acknowledge their leadership (are they elected, chosen by the king, self-declared?);
3 - how do they relate with the king and the guild leaders;

and most of all: how would they explain this lack of diplomacy towards the Fusioneers leader.
[/quote]

First how little you know before asking such questions tut tut tut
it again is kiley is just as guilty for lack of diplomacy as you say.
As a land leader you have the right to run your alliance as you wish but when it come to matter of the LAND you don't have the right to decided by yourself.
it is that simple.

answer to the above
1. read the forums and you would know who the leader are it has been mentioned many times by me and the others. stop being lazy
2. LOL again lazyness has failed you here too. read of the past and you will have your answers.
3. wow really you should actually read the forums. your lack of information is what blinds you to the happening of a land.

the same as the lack of diplomacy from the Fusioneers leader.

Look it is like this.

Keily has the right to bring in members she feel FIT with the alliance.
But it is also expect that she will not bring in someone into the land that is a know hostile
it is also expect as a land leader and leader of the Guild that she will abide by the rules of the land (in this she has broken them)
My action that i took was not as a king but as a player with the power and requested to do so.

Yes there was a big breakdown in communication and from my point of view and from what i seen
action was needed to be taken quickly. The jailing is just part of what the tool does.
This is more an issue between Necrovian and Golemus from a diplomatic point of view.
The issue of king.ex king is also mute. as per murs response.

You know this whole issue would never have happened if one player had read and abide by the land rules.

So since most of you ignored what has already been said many times over.

Re read Murs post as he says the people whom still had the tools could use them.
even without that you have also ignored the fact that the decision to do what i did was not just mine. (action was taken with the backing of the land leaders)
Yes the council need to post something and make a statement of what they feel should or should not be done.

@Asull just because you lost your land citizenship does not mean you are not necrovian. That is like saying i was kick from Ireland so i am no longer Irish.
the fact you had no citizenship does not take away from what people see you as and that is necrovian.

Those asking about the citizenship rule go read the bloody rules they state no necrovian is allowed in Golemus.

AGAIN you all ignore the retirement statement. I said i was resigning but will still take care of the land until a replacement is in place

so new we wait for council to comment on this matter as mur already has but seems you do not listen.

Some would argue some of the rules that are placed are common sense, so what is your point in that question.

Edit: guess we have to wait for someone to declare do retired kings have authority over people when they resign. And if it's ignored then let them abuse Azull in jail since no one declared it as wrong.

Until we get a ruling from council it it pointless anyways, but if you ask me, yes.

If you have a ruler, you getting citizenship, even through proxy of alliance, puts you under rule of that leader. (Arguments will make no sense till we get an answer to whether the kings are still defacto regents or not from council).

Why do you need a rule, when common sense explains it?

Edit: No point making a new post now, but...it is clearly stated that if you join a land, you obey that leader. So if you think Handy is still the leader right now, ofc it makes sense to ask her first. If you don't you don't ask her. So what else am I supposed to say to that?

I am hardly someone who is officially a voice for GG. Kelle'tha holds neutrality, to a certain degree. That would be Grido, Burns, etc.

And no, it was not. Your PM to Grido was neither requesting, nor informing of you ever retreating if requested- it was a bold proclamation saying I will do this, essentially.

Regarding lack of official leadership: If you say you accept some people as golemian leaders who could request you to stop doing it- why did you never ask any of these before it happened, and instead complain now afterwards? Kiley never asked any of them either, as far as I heard. So again- why should anyone ask you, the [i]intruder[/i], if you never asked first?

Edit: Since you mentioned you having no homeland- that was caused by the TW being taken over. Which, is not our fault. And, the ban could easily be lifted if your king was still there, using his abilities to remove the tag and granting you refuge. If council states this usage of power was correct, then that usage would also be correct. Again, also not our fault that you no longer have one. If council states this was misuse, then you would get fixed up as well.

That would mean we are afraid of people walking or recruiting, Pip.

It is not xenophobic to reject someone who joins solely for his own benefits.

well looks like someone is trying to cause issues beyond what they are AGAIN.

So lets get down to it.

1. I announced i was stepping down but this would not happen until a replacement was in place.
2. My actions where taken not just of me making the decision.
3. The leader (be it ex or not) decided they would join Golemus WITH OUT checking with land leaders first. Just because i am not king does not mean i am not a land leader.
4. As you can see Azull was warned of possible jailing and still choose to stay in the alliance and still didn't communicate with land leaders.
5. I will admit i missed the announcement from mur on the use of the items.
6. a week went by for very good reason before taking action i was away on holidays
7. A week went by and Azull still choose to stay in the land without permission from ALL land leaders
8. Alliance leader Keily does not have over all say as to whom can become a land citizen and should have communicated to land leaders (this is a matter for the land leaders)

I find it both annoying and frustrating that that so many assumptions are being made in this matter.
As mentioned i took the actions after making sure land leaders where ok with this.
I should not be explaining this to anyone out side of Golemus.
The ones starting this sort of forum attack (yet again are making this personal)
Know this. Be i a king or land leader or just a citizen i will take every action i can that i have the power to
use and will stop necrovian citizens becoming a Golemus citizen. You made your choice.

I have and always will be agents necrovian gaining Citizenship of the land i love and protect.
this has always been how i am. I have on occasion let and even help necrovian around the land
but because of recent activities and yes Peace you are one of them i will do everything to be sure
Necrovians will be thrown out of Golemus. I know i cant do it 24/7 but i will do it when i am online.

I though we had started to gain trust between the land and i was starting to allow necrovian citizens into
Golemus but this action and the even it is part of show that trust is not something that can be had between Golemus
and Necrovian if this is how they intend to do business between our lands.

In regards to the kingship items. The are still in my possession while i type this reply
As acting king until FINAL decision is made i will keep holding them. There is a way for Azull to get out of jail
if the necrovian citizens choose to find it and use it so be it. AT lest then it is the land showing defence for their people
something that is lacking a lot thies days.

Now i am loosing track of the argument ans tire of this so read on and do as you wish.
If MUR or the Council decide i should be punished AGAIN for defending my land so be it
but i will keep defending it in every way i can.

edit:

just yo add i speak personally of the blocking of necrovians from Golemus
If the land leader back me on this all the better i do not and will not speak on their behalf.

I know I said might, because I could not be sure- you agreed with me. You could have prevented this however by simply asking yrthilian first, or did you do that and he reneged?

In the discussion there was another interesting point brought up: If you bring diplomacy and asking as a method up, you PMed Grido, but never stated intent to back off if asked. The PM itself also only states intent to get land loyalty. The way it was worded, it was to declare intent, not to ask permission, which you seemed to take for granted. If you had asked and gotten permission first, it probably would not have happened.

While personally I do not care too much about this, apparently the other GG people do feel it warrant a jail period.

While the announcement of Mur does say to not use them in the next few days, it has been a month since it. Because of that, there thus has been a void in authority- so until then, arguably the king fills it as a regent, till the next government can be established.

I've had this argument myself with someone else, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that upon entering the alliance Azull risked punishment from the GG tools. Which until a clear stance upon how Mur decides to fill the void, is to be done by the regent in position, being yrthilian. The announcement itself was never meant to be permanent. I assume that the GG leaders requesting this action only made it easier to decide.

And Maebius, in this case Azull himself said it: He did it to gain some land loyalty. Which, clearly being unwanted (I assume he'd realize himself earlier, but no later than after I pointed out yrthilian might jail him), would lead to expulsion. Obviously diplomacy would have been a better way to decide it, but it was not chosen, nor was the outcome clear- if Azull decided to take the risk of getting jailed, why would he leave the alliance which could only be forced from Kiley otherwise, who himself allowed him in?

I'm just pointing out some things I discussed recently with someone else on this.

As some may have noticed, after he was disbanded from the Tainted Warriors, Azull joined the Fusioneers. I don't have an issue with this, nor I saw anyone complaining about it.

Except the retired King. Yrthilian stepped down from his throne. He has retired. This means that he should not have any kind of power over those who were his subjects. He can influence them, but I find it outregeous to jail someone for joining a Golemian alliance, even if it was someone from Necrovion. I would like to state that I do not want this to turn into a diplomatic issue. Merely pointing out that retired Kings and Queens should no longer hold the royal items.

Open for discussion.

I would like to say to all those who submitted their entries have done a fine job, but few of you made an amazing picture with MD style in my opinion. I feel sad that I voted the same thing as the first time, missing the new entries.

A couple things though, I hope you won't mind me.

A few people, no need to call fingers or point names, were begging for votes. I understand the reason they did it (even if it was annoying), but I hope that whoever received a pm from said people or followed a forum link took their time and [b]really looked all[/b] the entries and then casted their votes.

There is also the matter of buying someone's vote. Should this be allowed/encouraged?