Watcher

I deserve far more than you would ever be capable of knowing. Beyond that, however, you have proved my point: you seek to impress people, as puerile as your "achievements" are. No WPs? Not on a list? Well, you have certainly told me off. I will most certainly pack up my keyboard and move on to the next gaming forum now. And, yes, dst, you are far more blind than anyone else I know. It is truly sad.

[quote name='dst' post='31898' date='May 21 2009, 03:31 PM']I don't need to impress you. You worth too less to actually bother at least trying that. And do I sense some jealousy in there? About me abusing the system? Why weren't you able to do it? Or if you were why didn't you do it?[/quote] The interview[i]ee[/i] becomes the interview[i]er[/i]? As far as jealousy is concerned, no, I do not envy you. That is not the type of person I am. I do not seek to abuse the system, as riddled with problems as it is. I do not seek to work outside this particular system as the gains are exceedingly limited. You say you do not need to impress me, but that is all you ever try to do to anyone here. You try to impress others with your wicked rituals or your exaggerated statistics. Who are you trying to fool? Yourself? You are so desperate for attention and recognition. Why else would you make a topic devoted solely to yourself? You seek to validate and vindicate your juvenile behavior. [quote name='dst' post='31898' date='May 21 2009, 03:31 PM']So cut the **** and get down to earth.[/quote] I think you should take your own advice. Look at what you do and what you are. Look around to see where you are. An objective eye would see much, but I would not expect that from you.

[quote name='dst' post='31881' date='May 21 2009, 02:06 PM']Maybe watcher but you don't know for sure. And you cannot argue that I do have bragging rights. [/quote] Your bragging rights, such as they are, are predicated on a system you have abused. You do not impress me. And it takes little study of human behavior to know that personality traits are established early and hold true far more often than not. You were egotistical long before you came to MagicDuel.

Those who believe they 'earned the right to be snobby' were so long before they "achieved" it.

[quote name='phantasm' post='31824' date='May 21 2009, 11:22 AM']I'm sorry I may be confused, but isn't that what work is? All the editors in the world who sit and check other people work and get paid more than the people who do the work. The housing inspectors who come along spend "time and attention" to make sure other's work is done effectively? Besides the fact that this is a game, I find "time and attention" to be the true meaning of work in this game.[/quote] Yes, you are clearly confused. Comparing the duties of an auctioneer to those of editors or inspectors is laughable and insulting to the latter. You are correct when you say that editors and inspectors are "paid more than the people who do the work." However, what you failed to consider was the educational background of these professions. Editors must have a firm and established understanding of the language they are editing, and that requires education, not just simple attention to detail. The same goes for inspectors of any kind. Again, they must be educated by the appropriate governmental authority before they can do their jobs. Without the appropriate education, these people cannot do their jobs regardless of their time and attention. [quote name='phantasm' post='31824' date='May 21 2009, 11:22 AM']In this case the values were clearly defined by Kragel.[/quote] Did I claim anything else at any point? The point of that was to say that the values determined were [u]arbitrary[/u]. Kragel had no basis for establishing the prices he came up with. He decided that Creature A was worth X silver. Any other person could have said Creature A was worth Y silver, and they still can. Again, these values were subjective; their values were set by someone and not by market prices or anything existing already. My argument is not whether it needed to be done or whether the prices were high or low. [quote name='phantasm' post='31824' date='May 21 2009, 11:22 AM']When any auction is held it is up to the person in charge of the auction to decide what values are where. Just because someone thinks a dollar is not valuable, does that mean it is not? Of course not. It still hold its value of 1 dollar. If people did not think the values set were fair they had plenty of time before the auction to decide if they wanted to participate. Noone held a gun to anyones head and told them to sell their creatures for less than what htey thought it worth.[/quote] No, it is not up to the person in charge of the auction to determine the value of the merchandise, it is actually those who wish to make purchases; they set the end value. You fail in your attempt to use the dollar as an example of value. Whether [b]you[/b] believe the dollar has value has nothing to do with its [i]actual[/i] value. If anything, your example of the dollar runs counter to the point you were trying to make and only helps my argument. The dollar is a recognized currency, and not only by one nation, but by the entire world. Unlike the silver coin in MagicDuel, there are enough people who view the dollar as valuable and who will accept it in exchange for goods and services. You, as a single person, can say that the dollar is worthless to you, which will only make you look mad and foolish while someone else robs you of all you have. Until the silver coin is as recognized in value as the dollar, this example is false, at best. [quote name='phantasm' post='31824' date='May 21 2009, 11:22 AM']Again a TRUE VALUE was set by Kragel long before the auction started. Unless Mur himself were to say "look this is what the value of each creature is at such and such" then the value is only determined by that of the person in charge of the auction. Sitting down and doing calcultions and trying to find "fair" pricing for creatures sure seems like work to me.[/quote] You are wrong. There is still no "true value" for the silver coin. As stated [i]several times[/i], the prices Kragel set were arbitrary. They were based on nothing else other than what he thought the creatures were worth. You should be less confused now.

What I see here is a problem of what some might call 'an inequitable division of assets.' First, we have to define some terms, and though it will be difficult to define them all, we only need a working definition of a few. The term "assets" would be a great place to start. An "asset" is something which is viewed as valuable by the person who has the item, talent, et cetera, as well as the person who wishes to obtain the item, make use of the talent, et cetera. The term "profit" requires a definition, as well. In this case, "profit" is simply the remaining revenue of a transaction that is in excess of what was required to create the object or item, or other such costs incurred. Looking at the whole of the slave auction, the original basis for this thread, there seems to be a discrepancy in what people see as the "assets." As defined above, an asset has to be viewed as valuable by all parties involved. However, the transactions, or the payments, if you prefer, were not paid for by one type of currency, but by two: silver coins and creatures. This is the first breakdown for this system. As noted in other places, there are those who view the silver coin as completely worthless. To them, it has no value and is an extra something given to them when they make a purchase of an "item" they believe that has real value (ex. increases in attack, defense or other values.) Creatures, on the other hand, are much more concrete in their value. Everyone has them. Given enough time and battles, these creatures can give an interesting return to those who invest in them. Creature One will increase a certain statistic by X amount and another by Y. Stronger, and by necessity, older, creatures can make winning battles easier. Simply having some creatures can be viewed as a status symbol, such as the drachorn, the tortured soul, or the angien. It is clear that creatures have value to everyone. The second problem comes up in the vagaries of the 'help and interest' the slave auction was supposed to bring to the market in general. I will admit that I have not taken the time to look back through old posts about the slave auction, but I recall quite clearly that Kragel stated he would take a portion of the proceeds, while sharing the rest with Kriskah Arcanu. However, I do not recall Kragel ever stating what percentage would be shared with Kriskah Arcanu and how much he would keep for himself. He never stated what his profit margin would be. Also, taking a closer look at the meaning of "profit," one has to wonder what kinds of costs Kragel accrued in his dealings with either the silver or the creatures. Kragel did not have to spend resources on the acquisition of any of the slaves: they all volunteered. He did not have to pay for the space where he held the auction. Considering that Kragel had to pay for nothing, one has to wonder who he paid for which services, as he claims. If this has been recounted elsewhere, then I apologize in advance for displaying my ignorance. The greatest problem then occurs when the two terms, "asset" and "profit," are brought together. As stated before, some people view coins as worthless while there are those who do assign them some value. Because of this disparity, there is no way to determine the "true value" of a silver coin. It is complete arbitrary, and its value was assigned by Kragel when he listed the creature equivalents to the silver coin. Currently, we have to take Kragel at his word that he gave half of the earnings to Kriskah Arcanu, paid out what he did, and only kept the remainder as profit for his "work." (I place work in quotation marks because it does not take much for one to auction off a slave other than time and attention.) To those who believe coins to be worthless, Kragel now has more creatures, which he did arguably little to acquire, and which they would see as far more valuable than coins. This is the "inequitable division of assets" mentioned earlier. In the end, though, this has occurred and cannot be changed, and this is not the point of this posting. The point is: what is to be done about future endeavors such as this? Will there be another slave auction when the market occurs again, if it even does? If so, how transparent will it be, if at all? Will a "true value" for the silver coin be established by this time? If not, will creatures be included as a trading currency? If Kragel feels he does not have to make his dealings public knowledge, is there another 'slave trader' who will step forward who will make his or her records public? For those who do not accept silver coins as valuable, can they assist in the assignment of value to creatures? I am sure there are more questions to ask, but this is enough to get a dialogue on the subject started and, if not here, on another thread.

Consider finding others in the game who are both familiar with the game and your native language. Alternately, look for those who have patience to explain something in detail, possibly several times, to make sure you understand any concept you are having difficulty with. Riddles can be problematic, as it is possible to 'lose something in translation.'

Do a little more research next time, Fenrir Greycloth. Akasha is an ancient player. Why else would she appear so high on the RPC list?

[quote name='Metal Bunny' post='30066' date='May 3 2009, 10:47 AM']Don't worry, we RPC's are not allowed to sell our WP or inner magic docs for any price except by merit in the quests we are giving.[/quote] There is one RPC who did not recieve that memo, as he has been "trading" his inner magic document for items.

Instead of constantly tearing down Guybrush Threepwood and telling him that he has a 'terrible idea' and that this [u]isn't[/u] going to work, how about some of you toss out ideas on how it can? Guybrush Threepwood is going against some of the weakest role-players this game has inflicted upon it. However, I wish to offer kudos to him for holding his own against such rampant ignorance and inability to change. Guybrush Threepwood is looking to expand the role-playing segment of this game and his ideas have merit. Are his ideas perfect? No. They can certainly use help, but all I am seeing is three stat grinders ripping them apart, instead. I do not believe he asked for that in his original post, but for aid and suggestions. At first, Mur might set up only have enough programming to support a few, limited classes, such as warrior, healer, and mage. Those are some of the most basic classes there are in nearly every game. They can be based on a single statistic to begin with. However, as a class system evolves and changes, so too can the basis of these classes. Multiple classes can be based on the same statistics, too. A barbarian, warrior, and knight could all be based off a combination of attack and defense. A mage, a healer, and a "red wizard" could use power and regeneration as their base. However, it is the ratio of these stats, when compared to each other, which would determine which class the player would fall in. Also, Guybrush Threepwood stated that five stats are the basis of most of his class ideas. This, again, is how many games are set up. Is there a place for initiative? Yes, most certainly. Is there a place for trade sense and briskness? Of course. However, it would make sense to work with what we have at the moment before including everything. Guybrush Threepwood is proposing an idea that would help this realm, not hinder it. As for the MP3 question, why can they not have a class? It would be a very weak (roll-wise), very basic class which would introduce the concepts of the different classes which would be available to them as they play and progress through the game. Everyone starts out as something. The most powerful wizards and battlers had to begin as something weaker. The same could be done for MP3s. Also, gaining power or abilities should [b]not[/b] be based solely on the accumulation of stats. That is [u]not[/u] what this game is supposed to be about, but there seem to be so many who wish to keep it that way. Powers and abilities should be attained by quests, role-play, and similar activities, some of which could be automated. This is what Guybrush Threepwood is looking for and it is what he deserves: ideas and suggestions on how this could work and how to avoid letting the abusers and power gamers gain by the system.

If you would reread what Guybrush Threepwood [i]actually[/i] said, Burns, you would see that your objections have already been addressed, even if it wasn't explicit. What Guybrush Threepwood is proposing is not exclusively role-play based, but is a simple (though maybe not "simple" in a coding sense) mechanic. When a character joins an alliance, they are automatically given a small amount of power just by virtue of being a part of it. The leader has no choice in giving out that power. As more people join, they all are given this base level power. However, should the current leader behave like a tyrant, holding onto as much power as possible and not distributing it as a good leader should, or should that leader disappear with no clear intention of returning, the others in the alliance have the option to rally and remove the current leader and replace him or her with another of their choosing. This is more than just role-play, but it has the capability to enhance it quite a bit. It also allows for the formation of rebellions or treachery. One thing I would suggest in addition to the system proposed is to make it far more difficult for a leader to expel the members of the alliance. This would require the leader and the members to actually think on who is joining their alliance. It would lead to stronger, more cohesive alliances while still allowing for rebellion as the leader would not be able to eject members without notice. Finally, as a side note, from the way King Manu speaks, this game [i]is[/i] moving away from just being a "stat grinding" game to a true role-playing game. For those who do not, or [u]who cannot[/u], change with it, you will simply be left behind as the world and environment change.

It is not the role I am questioning. It is the timing. I understand the role of villains and similar constructs in literature and entertainment. However, at this point, there are too few items to allow for a viable collector. All a collector is going to do is frustrate others in a non-productive way. Currently, items need to flow, and a collector at this point in time will only inhibit the system when it is at its most fragile.

Kriskah Arcanu makes a valid point. The items were made to enhance a character's role. They were not made to be collected, hoarded, and kept away from everyone, only to be used at some indeterminable point in the future. Characters like Kragel and Udgard are asking others to bring items to them so that they can "use" these items to create objects for those who are questing for them. However, that all comes to a grinding halt when there is an item collector who is hoarding these items, who refuse to trade them, or who asks for ridiculous prices or favors in return for them. Yes, there is the potential for an item collector in this world, but I believe that needs to come much later when there are more items in circulation. Items should be traded and passed among others in order to facilitate social interaction and the creation of quests. This cannot happen if the available items end up in the hands of a select few. Kriskah Arcanu is not looking out for her own interests, but is looking at the big picture. However, the one who chooses to be "the Item Collector" only sees what they can get out of each transaction. They are being exceedingly shortsighted at the moment.

Harion, your insolence and ignorance is appalling. Fenrir Greycloth gave you valid information. The page that told you exactly what you needed to know was available when you made your post. I have no sympathy for you if you cannot find information on your own, as so many others are capable of doing. In the future, explore the interface more to find what you're looking for and withhold posts that make you look like an inconsiderate lout.

Whether you wish to call them stages, Alphas, ages, or layers of a cake, the point is the same. This game, this place, and the people who play it all evolve together. The real question is whether we have reached a new stage of development, not what to call it.

I replied with the following on another thread, but I believe this deserves to be repeated, as some things need to be stated several times before the message is actually heard. -- The notion of a principle trade is incongruent with the idea behind principles. King Manu has said that 'your choices define you.' When a player proceeds through the story presented to them, they have many choices to make, including which principles to focus on. "Should I take choice X or should I move along path Y? Do I want to focus on Time or do I think my character would work better with Balance or Entropy?" These choices define each character, to give them a uniqueness in the world in which we play. Even those who choose randomly or with little thought have still decided on a character-defining path. The idea of trading principles is completely anathema to that idea. No longer would a player's character be defined by the choices they have made in the past, but by what creatures have tokens they wish to enhance. Contrary to how many people seem to play, this game is [u]not[/u] about who can smash whom with the most powerful creature or ritual. Yes, combat and fights have a place here, but that is not the whole of this game. There is so much more to this place than creatures, statistics, and "grinding." The tokens are a gamble. One will occasionally score big while another will end up losing out. It's the way the system works and it should not be altered. Principles are part of the core of a character. Altering something as integral to a character, such as their principles, should only happen for a solid and compelling reason. Increasing the effectiveness of one’s creature tokens is [b]not[/b] one

The notion of a principle trade is incongruent with the idea behind principles. King Manu has said that 'your choices define you.' When a player proceeds through the story presented to them, they have many choices to make, including which principles to focus on. "Should I take choice X or should I move along path Y? Do I want to focus on Time or do I think my character would work better with Balance or Entropy?" These choices define each character, to give them a uniqueness in the world in which we play. Even those who choose randomly or with little thought have still decided on a character-defining path. The idea of trading principles is completely anathema to that idea. No longer would a player's character be defined by the choices they have made in the past, but by what creatures have tokens they wish to enhance. Contrary to how many people seem to play, this game is [u]not[/u] about who can smash whom with the most powerful creature or ritual. Yes, combat and fights have a place here, but that is not the whole of this game. There is so much more to this place than creatures, statistics, and "grinding." The tokens are a gamble. One will occasionally score big while another will end up losing out. It's the way the system works and it should not be altered. Principles are part of the core of a character. Altering something as integral to a character, such as their principles, should only happen for a solid and compelling reason. Increasing the effectiveness of one’s creature tokens is [b]not[/b] one.

All one has to do is to look at the top person on the Item Owners list to know exactly who is offering his spell document in trade for items. The trade is incredibly lopsided and I feel only a modicum of pity for anyone who fell for such a dubious trade. Furthermore, this individual's role, which was questionable to begin with, has nothing to do with collecting and hoarding items. He, and collectors like him, completely neutralize the point of items. They were introduced to enhance one’s role. I would like to see "disposable items" or something similar. Something that has no more value beyond the other items, but of which there are more copies in circulation and that have a chance of degrading or breaking, but are renewable in some manner. Perhaps there could be several spells which PWRs could use which would create these temporary items, perhaps allowing them to set a time frame over which they degrade and eventually break.

[quote name='Kragel' post='29624' date='Apr 28 2009, 08:45 PM']Note: if you don't sell for more than 10 coins you don't earn 10% that's only fair sorry lol so make sure someone loves you and get them to bid[/quote] You have a strange idea of what "fair" is if you are unwilling to share 10% of the slave's final selling price with those who wish to prostitute themselves out like this. If one were sold for 5 silver, using the rules of rounding, you would be required to pay that person 1 silver, as 10% of 5 is .5 and that, when rounded properly, becomes one. This same method of rounding is applied to most, if not all, currency transactions the world over. This would lead to the conclusion that [i]any[/i] slave who sold for [b]five or more silver [/b]would earn, at the bare minimum, a single silver for their trouble. However, truncating percentages, as opposed to rounding them appropriately, is cheating your slaves out of what you promised would be theirs. However, I would expect nothing less from one who trafficked in "merchandise" such as this.

[quote name='The Knight of controversy' post='29332' date='Apr 24 2009, 08:21 AM']can i produce mine? or maybe i can ask my sister she is in arts school[/quote] Pay attention, Grido.

For those of you who [i]are not paying attention,[/i] there is [b]not[/b] currently a system in place that allows a player to choose a specific avatar for their character. Again, you may ask, beg, plead, harass, or even threaten any of the various artists who draw for the game about ideas for avatars, but [i]you are not entitled to any of them.[/i] All avatars are released at the same time and to obtain any specific one, you must be the first to choose it in the gallery. Otherwise, there is no set schedule for the release of avatars. They are available when King Manu decides he has enough to release. If you would like a larger selection or a greater variety to choose from, then you need to submit artwork or find friends who are capable of drawing in a style similar to what is in the game.

It is clear that I do not need my "reading comprehension improved," as I understood exactly what it was you were rambling about. However, it is apparent that you need to learn what you are talking about before you spout off a pointless rant. I was simply noting that your incoherent tirade was unnecessary: when one solves the puzzle, a message appears stating exactly what needs to be done to receive a reward. A sign or a note or anything else is not needed. So, when you say: [quote name='Harion' post='29312' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:57 PM']good lord, good thing i came here so i know next time what consists a solved puzzle otherwise i would've solved it and never knew and just kept stupidly waiting for a genie to magically appear at least the ball in berserker's way activates when you solve it[/quote] you look like a fool who is angry about something with which he is ignorant. Any would [i]plainly[/i] know if it had been solved. Again, your post was pointless. But I suppose that much is obvious.

Harion, it is clear you have not solved the Broken Pattern Gazebo puzzle. Otherwise, you would know that your protestations about 'not knowing you solved it' are completely baseless.

No, awiiya, the definition of "right" has nothing to do with whether it is one solution to any given problem. There are many ways for a poor man to obtain money. There are many ways a leader can inspire his troops. However, not all of the answers are "right" just because they lead to the desired end. Some solutions are still "wrong" even if they accomplish the same goal as the right ones. Also, what makes you believe that the cube is "simple"? Because you believe it to be so? If the Shade Sentinel [u]is[/u] contained, does that change the "complexity" of the cube?

On the contrary, humans are one of the most gullible species in existence. They 'need to see something to believe it'? You could not be more wrong. All a human needs is the [b]suggestion[/b] that something [i]might be[/i] working and they will fill in the blanks as they desire, jumping to all the conclusions they wish to see. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to begin telling everyone what they want to hear and the humans will be all to happy to fall in line. Of course, there are those who do require more than just suggestions and chicanery to believe in something. However, they are very few and far, far between.