Yoshi

As many of you have noticed, a certain individual had used the word "gay" as a form of insult on the Moodpanel. In reaction to this, others have blown up and responded to this form of "insult."

This post is in response to both parties, for they are both EQUALLY WRONG.

Being "gay" is not an insult. For either party to take think this, is just disgusting. Those who have endured years of torment for their sexual preference should be admired, not pitied, or made fun of. They chose to be outwardly DIFFERENT. They could have hidden their desires and done things the "normal" way, but they hadn't. They chose the hard life, and that life means they are happier.

For those of you who call people "gay," think about yourself for a moment. Have you ever done something so courageous as defying one of Society's most important rules? Not likely.

For those of you who pity those who are "gay", where do you get off pitying them? Protecting them? This is just as big an insult to these people. They do NOT need protecting, nor to be coddled.

Once again, being "gay" is not a BAD thing.

Seig

The homepage was changed. Nobody likes it. Except the ones who do. But I don't.

It was known to myself well before this event that Ren's segment of the AL was not necessarily fact. Then again, I've never read the AL start to finish, and I don't plan to. Even then, what thoughts and information I do have could well exceed yours, Sephirah. Does that really matter? Very little. As Mur has said, the question is often more important than the answer.

Are you bowed down so low that you can't look anyone in the face?

[url="http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060215"]link[/url]

I can't read german well, and im not sure this is what you actually want, but this is listed as within your price range and ships to germany and is from the same family. Games Workshop is where everyone buy their warhammer here in the UK.

Z

What is good?
A 4 letter word.

What is your best physical attribute?
My eyes I guess... or so I've been told...

What is your best non-physical attribute?
Uhhhmmm... I care too much. It's like level 70.

What do you value most?
Friendships I guess.

What is 2 + 2?
5. duh.

What do you know?
Uh, a little about a lot.

3 Gold is about the going rate for Colourless jokers dont do it!

Manda if you want to sell that joker at a reasonable price , id nock it down bout 2 gold

Edit: and please neg rep me > i have the most neg rep in the forum i think , feel the redneck pawa (seriosuly, neg rep me)

I am new to the game, as well, and what scared me was the complex (yet awesome) interface to things.

One suggestion would be a very, simple "interface FAQ" page with little labels as to what could be done or what to consider. There's a LOT of stuff to click on, so not everything needs labeled, but the important features outside of the left-most buttons (map, equipment, storymode, etc) were unknown to me without someone specifically pointing it out.

One example of this is, because all the good info was on the main screen, it took me at least five days to notice the teeensy [b]header[/b] with Announcements, Adventure Log, Forum Link, Free credits, etc. That's not scary, and now I'm glad it's so unobtrusive, but it was something I didn't know at first and upset me I didn't see the links some help-folks were mentioning to look at.... A static image-page of "The Game Screen" with highlighted regions and arrows/labels, "Header!", "Player Info", "Chat panel", "Players here", etc. Nothing too fancy, but just pointing out the general layout and ImportantStuff(tm) for us visual-learners. The "Game Intro" link is great, but does not mention the Player documents, (hatelist, Quests, etc) at all, which are apparently important to know?

Examples: [b] The yellow/orange "recharge creature Vitality".[/b] The help files mention it, but it was so small that I didn't notice it was "clickable" initially, and thought it was simply a visual "life bar", and kept trying to click the actual creature image (which shows detailed stats) and searching for the "Recharge Vitality button" from that screen. Perhaps because I was looking for something else, or maybe the fact that my tooltips seem to not always appear, I had been looking at the wrong page.

[b]The K documents, Hatelists, Quest docs, and such. [/b]
I also thought were simply "ranks/awards/badges" under the avatar's image, and hadn't considered clicking on them. Mouseover for those (to me, at least) does not show a popup tooltip info, so I ignored them until about hte tenth time I heard "Click their Q document" and realized the teeeensy little scroll had a Q on it, not just some symbol/rune. (this could simply be too big a screen resolution and poor eyesight on my part, but was still confusing)

[b] The realization that not all players here play in-character.[/b]
I had been asking around about the alliances, and heard more than half of the replies either state "Sorry, I don't roleplay" or "Ask the king", and such. Or flat out "I don't know, just fight until you can get to MP4". That was an odd answer.

Other than going to the forums, I've had difficulty finding HOW to message the kings of those lands, because in order to message someone in-game, you need to have seen them in-game (or at least had them walk through a region to get their name-link visible?)

Relatedly, the forums seem to be an extension [b]OF[/b] the Magic Duel lands, rather than an OOC community to support "The Game", which is how I view most other game forums. I wasn't quite prepared to be default-expected to go get all my info in the forums, particularly about in-character questions. I had avoided the forums because I assumed that since most information is considered "to be discovered in game, and not via spoilers", that the forums would not be a safe environment to go digging too deeply.
(this is not a complaint about the spoiler policy, I love that! It's different enough from other games and sites that I intentionally avoided the forums in order to not break immersion as much.. which seems to have been wrong way of viewing the forums)

Otherwise, I love what I've discovered so far! The items above are mainly little things, in the general picture, and probably serve to help filter out those who may not "get" the style of game this seems to be, and were looking more for your classic "kill things, get XP" type of webRPG.

Allow me to make a rude comment here:

Pashweetie, if you had another brain, it would be lonely, plain and simple.

Why am I angry? Because Eon is a friend of mine, and in no way should be complained against. If you had bothered speaking to him in PM when he doesn't have them blocked, he IS a reasonable person, and he DOES follow through with requests, no matter how ridiculous*.

*I know this because:
I have asked him not to attack my Shroom, and the people at SN when they are presenting, and he has adhered to that, AND he has kept it in future events.

first off, dont listen to curiose, she gets mad WAAAYY to easily, I suggest speaking with eon and trying to figure out something that you both can gain from .
As a peacekeeper it is my job to settle fights, i hope that works .
TGP

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1294289185' post='76925']
The first one, I don't think will object much to the proposed requirements,
[/quote]

They already have, multiple times, both in this thread and others.

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1294289185' post='76925']
And no, people are not supposed to wait for their angiens to have max age before going mp5..
[/quote]

Of course people want to age their crits before levelling. If you were new now, I'm sure you would too. All this "supposed to" and "not supposed to" is making my head hurt. The newer players who do talk oppose what is being suggested for them and when they do they get told they are wrong...but its for them right? so....surely their statements are pretty important? Actually arn't their statements the most important? Or are we in Plato's republic?

Look at HeHelpedMe here, getting negged for not understanding. Ridiculous. He is one of the only lower AD lower MP people giving comment. He should be listened to and discussed with. His opinion is more valuable because he is actually in the group that is supposedly trying to be helped. If you actually want to help, work with people like him, he is the target population supposedly being supported by this initiative and he opposes it.

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1294289185' post='76925']
I think lately there has been to many illusions of "mp5s/vets only wanting to get more people to move up so they can pound them". The thing is, staying mp3/mp4 for eternity won't help people prepare to fight the "vets". People at mp5 has access to much faster stat growth than an mp3/4 can ever hope for, so the longer people stay there, the wider the gap between power they will have. And really, what can those so called vets do to pound on fresh mp5s that has actual consequence to those fresh ones? Combat losses are needed for balance, and tree rits easily prevent damage to your main army.
[/quote]

Having maxed creatures like angiens does help beat other players like MP5s who have maxed power creatures, so in that sense it does help. In addition the mp3/4s arn't all saying they are staying at lower levels in order to be capable of beating the MP5s. A number of them are saying they are staying there because there is just no point in going MP5 at all due to current MP5 attitudes and actions.

These "illusions" you speak of are the voices of those that are supposedly trying to be aided. So listen and work with them. Even I think they are right, I've done testing on it and I have come to the conclusion that they are correct - but I'm not foolish enough to think that I really understand fully because no matter how much testing I do, I the player am a vet of the game and they are not.

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1294322846' post='76964']
Should I remind you about MP4s with 10k attack ? PPL this is for your own good, for MD's future.
[/quote]

Is it? I really don't think it is. In the alternative version of this thread that Kafuuka made [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/8805-a-partial-solution-to-mp-levels-being-broken/page__p__76283#entry76283"]here[/url] I explained how by reasoning the only viable end result of this idea here is an attempt at re-populating MP5, it won't actually do anything else it claims to attempt as far as I can tell.

[quote name='Kafuuka' timestamp='1294338639' post='76981']
I claim that nobody who has never had an mp5 account, supports this idea.
[/quote]

I'd agree, and I'd go further. Some people who have MP5 accounts also don't support it.


Z

As much as the MP5s complain about the "abuse" of the lower MP levels, the lower MP levels are complaining about MP5 "abuse" of their over-powered accounts and further, their lack of general awareness and manners. They just arn't as loud about it because certain Mp5s keep telling them to shut up and deal with it.

I have always found MP5 on the whole to be very "my drach is bigger then yours". Amazingly, MP5 then complain about people staying super powered at lower MP levels. Personally, I find the whole thing very ironic.

If you make everyone MP5 or force MP5 upon people in order for them to be able to play properly, you don't actually change the issue causing upset. Over-powered accounts upsetting newer players still exists as a problem - and by restricting what they are left with when they have to go MP5 it is actually made worse not better. What you will have actually done is removed a way of abusing alts and increased the MP5 population. Removing the way of abusing alts is irrelivant because the purpose of doing it still exists even after you have done it unless you want to do it just for and of itself. That leaves increasing the MP5 population. Is that what this is about then? People will still be upset and either leave or kill off all their crits, that doesn't help anyone.

Like kaf says, lets just make everyone MP5! That'll solve it! no wait...wait...no it won't. What we need, imo, is an attitude change. If you over-farm your land, it gets barren, you're guna have to bite the bullet and let it fallow.

Z

Once uploaded your image will be reviewed for approval, if approved it will be added in the avatar list. Only hand-drawn artwork will be accepted. Avatar style must match the style of current MD avatars and contain the small MD letters as all avatars in MD do. Drawings should be converted to alpha, so they become B/W and transparent, not cut around the edges.

Images must be 100x160 px, gif, max 20kb
Background transparency color should be (RGB = 241.239.214, Hex #F1EFD6) Download sample source file, edit with fireworks or photoshop, export as transparent gif.


nothing about it needing to be hand-drawn

Currently uploading it, I'll link it here when it's done.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltEHLqCNil0"]My video.[/url]

This was quite the project and it didn't want to be completed. I'm not very good at rhyming and it shows in here. So instead it ended up not getting finished in favor of me mocking my inability to rhyme. Some parts weren't changed cause I wanted to get back to them and some just didn't work but I did my best to at least get a few laughs. Yes everything that did happen was scripted. Enjoy.

How many times are people jailed with 100% irrefutable proof? Looking back at the case with the drach lair, we don't even know which of the people sent there left and which stayed inside, all we have is their word. People were punished anyways.

In any case, dst, you used No one to store some items and then sold them off, taking the profit for yourself. You may have No one's permission and all, but how many people are allowed to do such things? Just trying to say; you have a special privilege, perhaps you should use it with a little grace.

Then in the least there should be a line of text explaining that not all players listed are active, for simple clarity.

It's normal behavior. It has been happening for more then 6 months now cause I asked Mur to do it.

Again...happy?

I think Necromancer Mortis is one... not sure though... completely iffy on that...

The only reason why the rebels [in my opinion, and how I see it] are losing favor, and are being labeled stagnant is because you're doing [i]nothing[/i] to the public eye. All I see at the gate, are people simply sitting there-- pondering, and criticizing what is going to be done of the rebels.

-You- wanted to do something, so do something. You have resources, and you can gain favor outside of Necrovion. There is power in numbers, and the more voices you have the more you have the option to get something DONE. I see time biding, and complaining.

So what if Jester finds out your plans?
So what if you fail in your first attempt?

That's what this is for. Learning. If you can't even stick your neck out farther than being called a rebel, then you don't deserve to be called a rebel. Wearing the tag, and stamping your feet for your king to step down is wasting your time. Be proactive-- WORK together, Rally together, whatever it is. You have no idea how many options there are for you, and yet you sit here twiddling your thumbs, hiding, waiting for AUTOMATION to do all the work. No one ever said being a rebel was going to be easy. No one ever said Mur was going to hand things to you on a silver platter. No one damned well said you'd get your way.

If you want your system to work, take initiative, and take responsibility.

[quote]The problem with this 'human element' is that it is not reliable if the people using it must rely on an outside person to *maybe* do something in response.
The people themselves WANT to do something, but how can they when the thing they want to do relies on an outside, perhaps indifferent, person?
[/quote]


You're a hypocrite Aysun. Did not Mur listen to you during the whole Necro drama? Did he not take your idea about the rebels and implemented it?
Indifferent? Shish! Please, show me a game where you can go to the creator(s) and do what you did here.


[quote]Are the people wanting to do something not human? Therefore no 'human element' is lost- it is only stifled by lack of ability to properly act due to reliance on unreliable elements.[/quote]

I'm lost....what do you mean by unreliable elements?

[quote]The issue with how things are now is that in order to try something like that today you'd have to send a message to Mur saying, "Oh, by the way, we're doing this at such-and-such time on the clock, so would it be ok if you made this work?" instead of it being within the player's power to just do it themselves after the effort of gathering the pieces themselves.[/quote]

Oh really? You have to message Mur? Then how come lots of players were able to trigger things WITHOUT "divine" intervention? Last war was started and conducted by players ONLY!
You know? I think you are lazy and you wait for mighty Mur to spoon feed you.


[quote]As for the rebels, the idea is that a certain number of rebels would trigger an election, but there is no set number- or maybe no number at all, and to what sort of ratio?- and a trigger isn't going to happen automatically, someone with the ability has to come by and be inclined to see it and start it.[/quote]

Err...find Mur's post about rebels and read it again. I think you either did not read it well or you chose to not see certain things he said.


[quote]but I can at least say that we ARE doing things even if they aren't quite so obvious to the public eye just yet.[/quote]

Wait...how am I suppose to know what you're doing if you're hiding? Personally all I saw you doing in game is having cyber sex with Rask. And all I see you do in the forum is rant about Jester and complain how "the system is not helping you".


[quote]For now, to gain any feedback you need to be spotted by the "right" people... [/quote]
Yeah, right...

My Mother told me the following when I was still small...

"I met the Rajj, your Father, during a time when he would spend day and night in front of the Howling Gates, either meditating, or telling stories to those who wished to learn. I was drawn to him by his stories, I would spend countless hours lingering near him, hoping to hear more of what he have to say. Then came the prophecy..."

My Mother had memorised the words of the prophecy, and repeated them to me, but I can no longer recall what they were. In anycase, it was how her life became bound to my Father's.

"One I will enslave, he had said... who else could he have meant, except me, who is already a slave? There were some drama before the Rajj chose his wives, but they seem insignificant now. I do not know exactly how long I served him, sitting by him day and night in front of the Howling Gates. I watched him tell stories, and I even repeated some of them myself. All seemed well, but I could tell he was becoming troubled. A burden was slowly being placed on him one which he did not comunicate to me. Then one day I followed and watched him as he went into Necrovion, claimed it all as his own, and crowning himself 'Rajj'. Thus came the Desert."

Now that I think about it, such a fantasy was so easily created, and passed on... Even to this day I could not forget the Desert. But, back to my Mother's story...

"The Desert flurished, the Rajj came to adopt the ritual of washing himself with sand. It was also a great pleasure when he would allow me to perform the ritual for him. It was also not long before he started talking of Heirs, and was also Crowned by the Shades as the First King. In fact, it was the first Crown in all of the lands. Three children he adopted... Marvolo, Peace, and Malichi."

I suppose at this point, my Dear Sister, Peace, and Brother Marvolo could each tell their stories... My Mother never told me what happened to Malichi. However, she did tell me how I came to be...

"I do not know why the Rajj desired further children, were the adopted ones not enought to fullfill the prophecy? Nonetheless, he wanted children from the womb of his wives, and so I obeyed. And in time, you came into the world, my Dear Rask, named after a famous man from my old world."

Unfortunately, I never knew my Father. It seemed that he had disappeared into his Desert before I was born. My Mother have always spoke fondly of the Desert, and my Father, but, she could not hide the sorrow in her voice...

"Life went on in front of the Howling Gates. I continue to sit at the Gate to the Desert, and it is now I who tells the Rajj's stories. As I watched my belly swell and felt your strength growing inside me, I wondered... He told me to live, and so I do... But what do I live for, when the man who owns me no longer calls my name? I think, he had wanted one of us to take his place, to bear the crown... His three wives, three adopted children, and two babes yet to be born... Yet, he left us too soon, I don't think any of us were ready..."

Often would my Mother talk of the hopes she had for me. She said that while she was a woman and a slave, born to serve and obey, I would be a man and raised to be a ruler. She told me that she wanted me to be as a wild beast, unrestrained, independant, and proud of my own strength... Sometimes I wonder if she regrets raising me the way she did... For I left her, when I saw the way she would stare at the sky, waiting to die, I left her, to find my Father's Desert.

I will not speak much of the time I spent in the Desert, challenging the merciless sands. It is enough that I survived, and stood again at the Howling Gates. It was to my dismay that I saw the land my Mother so loved fall into desolation, with a neglectful King holding the crown, and the people milling about as an abandoned herd. And so I declared my presence, and began my quest. I still labour toward the same goal now, as I sit in front of the Howling Gates, as my Father did, and as my Mother did.

Much have happened since my arrival, but I believe those are not my story to tell...

[quote name='Jester' timestamp='1292449118' post='75520']
"Using alts to increase the number of rebels of a land will be punished"

I read that, but it didn't say anywhere that its not possible. For example, you're not supposed to use alts for adepts and worshipers, and it will be punished, but its fairly easy anyways and I haven't heard of anyone being caught. Be realistic, if its possible, people will do it, whether or not it will be punished.

As to the issue of a person having two active roles, I don't think that's very limiting. How many people do you know with two completely separate characters in all of MD? Not enough to make it a deciding factor.

"Having 100 alts rebelling will achieve next to nothing towards overthrowing a king. There is no need for an alt limitation on rebels."

If there was only the 100 alts this would be true. What if, however, there was a difference of only 10 people between the members of a land and the Rebels? Alts could make a huge difference. Also, think of people from other lands being recruited by members of the Rebels in another land. Someone in Necrovion could ask someone from GG to make a simple alt, have them act interested in Necrovion, log on for 30 days, and then rebel.

This whole situation is far too easily abused for my liking.
[/quote]

Considering that the rebels do not have an automated system for dethroning a King, then anyone who used alts to inflate the number of rebels to a significant extent will come under the scrutiny of either Mur or the Council. In which case, they will most likely be found out and punished, with no damage being done to the position of the King.

If you are indeed worried about the potential impact to newcomers, what I said should be enough to reassure you.

On the other hand, if your concern is merely for keeping your crown, I would suggest that you try to live up to the expectations of your position. You would not have to worry about rebels if you were actually an active and dutiful King.

I would also point out that in your initial post, you are essentially threatening to punish innocent newcomers for your own unjustified paranoia.

That's Raven's avy.

This may be going off on a tangent, but all this talk of red has me thinking of synaesthesia. Red may or may not be objectively the same for everyone, but if some people experience certain letters, numbers, musical sounds, etc. as more "red" than others, while other people don't have the same automatic association, then that suggests to me that human experience can vary a great deal.

Veering slightly closer to being on topic…

From what little I know of neurons and their connections, experience, association, and context are pretty important. Even if we are talking about the exact same type of chair, I might associate that chair with constantly stubbing my toe, you with a favourite relative who owned a similar piece of furniture. And my concept of "chair" might have been shaped over my lifetime (through exposure to usage of the word in particular contexts, etc) to be closer to "utilitarian object", yours to "a piece of decor that makes a statement about the owner's personality", maybe. This seems to lend weight to language being far more subjective than it would seem on a quick glance through a dictionary.

All that being said...

We all live in the same world; we all spend a heck of a lot of time dealing with conspecifics to whom we need to communicate a variety of meanings, sometimes with great urgency; under these circumstances we kind of have to be pretty good at wielding language as a blunt instrument, getting our intended meanings across "well enough" to serve our needs.

Does it matter if your fundamental experience of certain words or concepts is different from mine? Perhaps, if it leads one of us to make connections or act in a way that the other feels is bizarre, unpredictable, or inappropriate - or during the moment when our conversation hits a snag, when we realize that we're not talking about the same thing, and that we need to "recalibrate" or at the very least figure out where the misunderstanding came from.

That is, I think it doesn't matter if our interpretations are different, unless we notice that there's a difference. And then the very fact that we notice such a thing means our understanding of the word shifts slightly; from there we can seek to expand our own understanding to the point where our different interpretations are brought close enough that the difference doesn't functionally/practically matter anymore. (Or, if that's not possible, then we can at least refine our mental model of the other person's understanding through analysis of further mismatches.)

If those moments of realization never come, we could be blissfully unaware that we're misunderstanding each other. We could all be doing exactly that, right now. But if you can go an entire lifetime *meaning* something different, interpreting things in your own idiosyncratic way, but it never *matters* enough for anyone to notice… is the difference in interpretation relevant? I'm having trouble thinking of an example where it would be, but you guys seem to be far better read than me on topics such as these…


(By the way, hello, I think this is my first post in the forum

I thought the following article was incredibly interesting. WARNING: A VERY LONG READ:)

Many many preachers will spend a lot of time talking about the meaning of the cross but rarely put the emphasis where emphasis is due. The church by and large is missing the point about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Theology is the study of God. But there is a huge difference between a theologian and a pop theologian. Pop stand for Popular. Pop music is music for the day. It is popular today but doesn’t last very long. Pop theologians haven’t done much study of the word of God but are more given to experiences, and teaching which usually deal more with anecdotes and stories and cute little sayings, than solid Scriptural teachings.

If someone tell you that the church, by and large, has missed the meaning of the cross, the first thing you need to ask them is this.. Why do you say that? The answer better be this.. Not only have I found these things in the Bible, but history backs me up.

When someone teaches or preaches about the meaning of the Cross what is it you usually hear? Physical suffering. They will go in to much detail about the terrible whipping and the crown of thorns, How the nails went through a certain part of the hand in order to support the body. How Jesus had to push himself up to get a lungful of air (Crucifixion caused you to die of suffocation). They talk about the Roman soldier thrusting the spear into Jesus’ side and the water and blood flowing out of His side. And then they will tell you “by this we are saved”.

Which should bring up the question of how it is possible that the physical suffering of Jesus, caused by men, somehow paid the penalty for our sins. It can not possibly work that way. How can our sins be paid for because the Romans and Jews rejected Jesus? Because they whipped and flogged Him?

God sent his son who lived a perfect life and then, according to the plan of God, they rejected Him, whipped Him etc and God looked at all Jesus’ suffering at the hands of men and considered that to be payment for all our sins against Him.

That is heresy. The deepest form of heresy. You can be wrong about a lot of things but if you are wrong about the cross you are in trouble.


So what happened on that cross to cause God to forgive us of our sins? The first question is why was it necessary that God in the flesh come to earth and die. Why cant God just forgive us?

Pro 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to Jehovah.

Read that carefully .. He who justifies the wicked is an abomination to the Lord.

So much of what you hear today, so many of the songs sung today are about God justifying the wicked. God justified us while were still sinners, he declared us to be right before Him and we praise God for that.

God‘s word says that if anyone declares the sinner to be right when he is not right is an abomination before Him. So if God declared you to be right when you were not right, If God simply forgives the wicked, He would become an abomination, according to His own word. He would become wicked. Imagine a judge sitting up there in his place on the bench, forgiving a murderer and letting him go. He would no longer be a just judge.

God is a just judge and God justice demands he throw men in hell

Therefore if God is a just God He cannot forgive… He must punish the wicked, That is the point of the whole Bible. All through the Old Testament we see animals dying.. it is symbol and type of the final and ultimate sacrifice.

Perhaps it is becoming a little more clear as to why God had to die. If he justifies the wicked person and declares the sinner to be righteous He, according to His own word, becomes an abomination. God can not simply forgive.

The law… God law demands that the sinner has to die.

God simply cannot wink at it and say ‘okay we will let him slide this time’

If HE does that HE is will be wrong, He will be unjust and contrary to His own Word. Remember what happened to Satan when he rebelled against God. He was swiftly thrown out of Heaven.. So if God were to simply forgive men’s sins, Satan would probably lose no time reminding God of His unfairness… Perhaps a conversation like this would take place…

Remember when we sinned against you . You were just then weren’t you? Cast all of us out of Heaven. These men sin against you and You let them go. Guess you are more like me than you know.

See the problem?

Now the only way that God can forgive sinful men is if God who made the law and God who demands satisfaction .. comes down Himself and pays the penalty.

The ONLY way the law of God can be satisfied is BY God.

This is what makes the doctrine of the Jehovah’s witnesses so blasphemous. They say that when the world fell, God created an innocent being and took this innocent being and put him on a cross to die and fix the problem. But that is not what happened . Jesus was not a created being. He is God.

If Jesus is not God, then sit and weep because everyone is going to hell.. What was done on that cross.. two thousand years ago on a blood soaked hill called Calvary, was not enough.

God made the law, God has to satisfy the law. It has to be God. Only HE can pay the price. God, in order to forgive the wicked and still be just, has to DIE in the place of the wicked. This is the ONLY way He can forgive.

SO how does He die. What is it about the Son of God’s death that leads to our forgiveness? How does His death satisfy the law?

When some one says they have been saved, the question to be asked is saved from what? Many people will say from sin. This is simply not true! Sin was an act you did. Sin isn’t going to throw you in hell. You have sinned, but sin is not a living being that going to judge you then throw you into hell.

What you have been saved from is not a what, it is a who.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Romans 5:9. [Emphasis Added]

You have been saved from God. God is the judge of all the universe. YOU have sinned and made yourself an enemy of God. So when you stand before Him, He will judge you and throw you into hell.




InPlainSite.org Note: However Romans 5:9 (quoted above) has a curious anomaly. It states that since we have been justified by His blood (past tense), we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him (future tense). This is a common occurrence in the New Testament which too many Christians seem to gloss over .. to their peril. The New Testament sometimes says that salvation is an accomplished reality, and at other times says it is still in the future, a seeming contradiction that is not limited to salvation alone. So what is the answer? Can we be assured we have salvation now, or is it something we have to strive and hope for. Have we already been adopted as sons, or are we eagerly waiting for this adoption? Are we righteous now, or is it yet a distant hope? For those who are actually interested in what the Bible says on the subject… as opposed to what parents, pastors, friends, or denomination may have taught, the answer to all of the above questions is .. BOTH. Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary was but the first half of the process, with the second phase still in the future. Complete deliverance will not be realized until Christ puts away sin at the end of the ages, when He (Jesus) will appear “before the face of God for us”. [Hebrews 9: 26]. But to properly understand that concept requires a more complete understanding of the atonement, for which we have to turn to the Old Testament. See The Two Phase Atonement






A lot of people today, seem to believe that God will not throw anyone into hell. It is entirely possible that their theology comes from the back of a Christian T-shirt or bumper sticker, because it is not in the Bible.

Jesus said…

But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who after He kills, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! Luke 12:4-5. (Emphasis Added).

This God of ours is not politically correct.

Have you ever heard the term enemy of God?

Ye adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore would be a friend of the world maketh himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

Contemporary Christianity interprets it differently from historical Christianity. Preachers today will often tell us that when the Bible uses the expression ‘enemy of God’, it means when WE were in rebellion against God, WE were against God. What it doesn’t mean is that God was ever against us, that God was our enemy. We are holding a gun against God and He wants us to put it down so we can become friends.

This is simply not true. All throughout historical Christianity, when it says ‘Enemy of God’ it means.. Not only are you God’s enemy holding your gun on Him, God was your enemy holding His gun on you. You put your gun down.. all well and good, but He still has his sights trained on you. You are a criminal, you have broken the law and you deserve to die. You can surrender and put your gun down but you are still going to die. Not only are you still His enemy, He is your enemy.

And yes, it does say in the Bible that God loves us.. But We tend to assume at once that "love" means what it does to us in modern times -- in this case, a mushy sentimentality that never says a harsh word and never steps on the toes of others. but conceptually, it is certainly possible to love one's enemies, and yet also attack them; and the same for one's disciples or allies. Never forget that Jesus calls the Pharisees names, and Peter "Satan"? Paul wished emasculation on his Galatian opponents (Gal. 5) and shames the Galatians with his rhetoric? See What is "Agape" and How Did It Work?

God says things in the Bible like I will hate them, I will come against them, I will fight them. I will raise up a standard. This God of the 21st century is a lot different from the Bible alone and a lot different from the one that has been preached for the last 2000 years.

Consider these verses (among many others) from Nahum and Jeremiah and Micah and Paul..

Jehovah is a jealous God and avengeth; Jehovah avengeth and is full of wrath; Jehovah taketh vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies. Nahum 1:2 .

And I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and with a strong arm, even in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation. [Jeremiah 21:]

And I will execute vengeance in anger and wrath upon the nations which hearkened not. [Micah 5:15]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; [Romans 1:18 ]

Then shall Jehovah go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. [Zechariah 14:3 ]

Remember what Amos said

“… prepare to meet thy God, O Israel. [Amos 4:12]

The Book of Revelation tells us

and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand? [Revelation 6:16-17]

He is not coming back with an apologetic look saying “I wanted to save you but I am sorry but now you are just going to have to go to hell”. No.. He is coming back sword in hand, in fury, to fight someone.

See The Wrath of God

The problem you have to see is here is punishment. We have broken God’s law and deserve to be punished. But from where does that punishment come? We have grown up being told that if you sin and something happens to you, that is not God but natural consequences similar to the law of gravity. Jump off the roof and you are going to get hurt. You sin and you are going to get hurt. It’s not God doing it, it’s just the way thing are. This is not true. God talks all the time of coming in judgment against people’s sin. Constantly. Read the Bible.

And I will set my face against them; they shall go forth from the fire, but the fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am Jehovah, when I set my face against them. [Ezekiel 15:7 ]

Therefore thus saith Jehovah of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will set my face against you for evil, even to cut off all Judah. [Jeremiah 44:11]

And the soul that turneth unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto the wizards, to play the harlot after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. [Leviticus 20:6]

So we realize we have to be saved from God and His punishment, but how is that punishment to be done away with? When Jesus was dying on the cross it was not the nails in His hand, or the crown of thorns or the Roman spears that save you. The suffering that men heaped upon Jesus is not that which pays for the crime. God did not look on that suffering and okay Good Enough!. What paid for your sin is written in Isaiah 53:10 and 12

Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand.

Usually when you hear a sermon or preaching on Isaiah 53, it usually centers around verses 3,4,5, and six, which talk about the suffering heaped on Jesus by men. Very rarely do you hear about Isaiah 53:10.

It pleased the Lord to crush Him.

Isaiah goes on to say

"...[He] was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors." (Isaiah 53:12)

How is it that that cross saves you? Because Jesus bore on the cross all the sin that God hates. The sin of all God’s people, from the first man ever saved on the face of the earth to the last man ever saved on the face of the earth was placed on His son.. the sins of all of God’s people. Everything that should be poured out on sinful creatures through out eternity, God throws down on His only begotten Son in a matter of moments. Crushes Him under the weight of His own justice.

Would you kill your son for someone? I am sorry .. I couldn’t. Yet God takes His perfectly innocent son and crushed Him under the weight of His own justice.

When Jesus said let this cup pass from me, people think it because He did not want to go to the cross. They usually imagine it was the physical agony that He did not want to go through. Consider this… There have been martyrs who have been burned at the stake and while they were burning they have lifted their hands and praised God. Does anyone imagine they are greater than our Lord Jesus? There have been Christians who have been crucified, burned, fed to the lions and many of those sang out with joy while the nails were being pounded in. Are any of them greater than Our Lord Jesus? Is it conceivable that Jesus would cower from a punishment that even some of His followers were able to endure with fortitude and praise. Is Jesus is weaker than them?

No, Jesus wasn’t thinking about nails in His hand, about spears and crowns of thorns or Roman soldiers. He was thinking about the fact that He had never been out of the Father’s bosom. That He had never been separated from His Father and now the Father was about to turn His face away from His Son. The Father did not turn His face away because He did not want to see His son suffering, He turned His face away Because His son had become detestable. Which is why Matthew 27:46 tells us..

"About the ninth hour [3:00 PM] Jesus cried out [quoting Psalm 22:1] with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani?' that is 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?'"

You and I deserved to be crushed with the hammer of justice, to be crushed under God’s wrath. But in order to save us He was crushed under His own wrath. That is what the Cross is. That is what it means. If you ever fully realize what happened that day, it will affect you for the rest of your life. You will never be able to get away from it.

And if the day comes that you stand before this Holy God who is about to pass judgment on you without having your sins paid for by His Son, then be afraid, be very afraid, as the wrath which made Jesus say ‘let this cup pass from me’ is about to descend on your shoulders.

Remember that when you hear about Jesus dying for you, you know now that it is more than just some whips. While one cannot possibly depreciate the physical suffering it was nothing compared to the Son of God being crushed by His own Father. Comparatively those whips were nothing. And when He cried out “It is Finished” that meant ‘Paid In Full’. If you are a Christian, God can never pour out His wrath on you. It is impossible because His son drank it. It does not exist anymore. There is no more punishment left for you.

Why did Jesus die on a Roman cross? He died for the sins of ungodly mankind, to save us from the wrath of God, and to make peace between us and God. "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..." (Romans 5:1).

But yet you have the opportunity to flee from the wrath that is to come.

I would say that God does indeed have emotions:)