Rumi

Well, my friends, the time has come. I have redrawn the design map with far more grace than yesterday's slop. I present to you a map in three stages. Base map - existing elements and contours [attachment=2977:meetinggardenmap2-med.jpg] Design map - images only [attachment=2978:meetinggardenmap3-med.jpg] Design map - elements labeled [attachment=2979:meetinggardenmap4-med.jpg] These are works in progress and not the final designs. As we continue to discuss the garden, I will add or alter elements as necessary. I hope these maps help to foster further creativity in all of us. If any artist who has volunteered to work on the community garden has the ability to translate this kind of map into the perspective image required for the scene, please speak with me. This will be a big upcoming task. Thanks for your support everyone.

A windmill is not a bad idea at all. We already have a dutch style grain windmill in the fields of abandonment and its clearly a very important part of md symbolism. I don't know that putting a small pond circulating windmill would infringe on the symbolism of the big windmill. There are many ways such a windmill can work and only a few of which could be effectively put to use with low technology. The kinetic energy converted from the wind can be used to power pumps directly or to generate electricity. I would stay away from electricity since it requires magnets, copper, and other hard to find materials. It is also grossly inefficient, given our intended application. Directly powering pumps is the traditional way to use a windmill and there are essentially two ways to achieve the desired aeration. We can pump water or we can pump air. Your neighbor uses an air pump, which is incredibly effective for aerating a pond, as well as creating intra-pond circulation and destratification of temperature layers. This would be an ideal solution and there is one potentially serious limitation. These pumps work using a diaphram pump and air compressor system to achieve the moving of air to the pond bottom. These are generally constructed from petroleum-based rubbers and plastics. I think it's feesible that such a design could be replicated using leather construction, similar to bellows a blacksmith might use. However, the transmission of the compressed air to the bottom of the pond without the use of petroleum-based tubing might prove very difficult as well. Such an installation would certainly require the expertise of a master craftsman from GG, such as Yrthilian. Pumping water is a much easier task and has been the realm of windmills for centuries. A windmill can use a well pump, which is simple and sturdy mechanics, to draw water up from the pond's depths and deposit it using simple plumbing uphill from the pond, allowing it to flow back down. The aeration is accomplished by the flowing water and the extent of the aeration is based on the course of that flow. If the water flows uninterrupted along the ground, little aeration is provided. If we incorporate a series of small stone waterfalls, a much greater aeration is accomplished. The peak aeration would be provided if we constructed clay flowforms (which flow in a figure eight pattern) for the series of waterfalls. Waterfall aeration would also provide a very nice visual and auditory aesthetic. Finally, I want to address the need for aeration. Ponds become stagnant and full of anaerobic bacteria and algae when they lack the appropriate ecology. The vast majority of clear ponds and lakes all over the world have never had any mechanical aeration. When we create a new pond by digging and/or constructing a levy, we can inentionally mimic a natural pond ecology and develop a clean, aerated pond. Plants in a healthy ecology will provide more aeration than any mechanical system can provide. The key is finding plants to inhabit all of the niches of a pond ecology. This includes deep subsurface plants, shallow subsurface plants, floating plants, pond-edge plants, and hydrophilic dryland plants including shade trees. A healthy pond ecology will also include aquatic species. First tier species, like algae and plankton will stabilize with the plant ecology, making room for second-tier species like scum suckers and herbivorous fish. As these stabilize, third-tier carnivorous fish can be introduced if the pond size can accommodate them. These third-tier fish make for good fishing. For every 1000 units (by mass) of first-tier species, 100 units of second-tier species can be supported, or 10 units of third-tier species. In the sea, there are fourth-tier "big fish", of which a single unit is supported by 1000 units of first-tier organisms. The integration of aquatic species provides further aeration and attracts all forms of vertibrate and invertibrate life, creating a full ecology. I think it would be advantageous to rely on both mechanical and ecological aeration to keep the pond vibrant. A strong storm can knock over a windmill and a strong pestilence can harm an ecology. And we can't forget magic. Unknown consequences are the name of the game when we play with magic. The more redundancy built into the system, the more resilient the system becomes. I would like to have a windmill.

Big News! I have drawn an initial design map based on many of the elements suggested by the community and my own vision. This first version was done entirely in pen and may be too sloppy to convey anything to anyone but me. It may be posted on the forums or I may make a new finer version and post that. Images will be available soon, one way or another. Elements included: Contour swale design for water management Community garden plots (for cultivation by individiuals) Orchard forest garden Sitting area with shade tree, benches, & swing Bird and butterfly habitat Perennial flower and berry patch beside road Culinary and medicinal herb garden Pond and associated ecology Greenhouse with additional passive solar reflection from pond Compost and manure piles Tool shed with rooftop rainwater collection Paths with grape/clematis arbors Corn, bean, and pumpkin patch with scarecrow More to come! If you have ideas for elements you would like to see included, now is a great time to speak up. I'm getting creative with ways to effectively use every bit of space without crowding or disturbing natural energy flows. If you would like to see an element that will take some space, it's easier to incorporate before everything else has an established and unchanging location. I'm looking forward to sharing my design maps.

Thank you Chewett. Will PM with future requests.

This is a second request to mods to add 'or item(s)' to the thread topic description

rusty2 4gc

2 gc 6 sc for one of the soulweavers - 18MDC 1 sc for one of the pimps - 55MDC Edit: added CTC number extensions for clarification

[quote name='Sasha Lilias' timestamp='1306006942' post='84834'] So you think: Shades Drachorns Seed(grido only) Soul Weavers Darks Morphs Other rare creatures, are acceptable? I doubt you will get any of those for one Aramor.... [/quote] I would consider all of these creatures. Current offers I am considering: tutorial shade rusty+1gc By the way, what is a Seed (and why is it grido only)?

I might consider trading Anniversary Aramor for Shade if you're interested. Offering 3 gc 1 sc for one tutorial shade.

I have an anniversary aramor I am looking to trade for interesting creature(s) or item(s). If you want to make an offer, reply on my thread or send a pm.

I said I wan't interested in recruitables. Chaos Archer is a heretic archer when traded, no?

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1305874621' post='84698'] What kind of crits would you be interested in? [/quote] The following are crits I'm not interested in: Imps Pimps Jokers BPs Sharptears Angiens UPs Tormented Souls Other recruitables If you have something more interesting that you would consider trading and you don't consider an equal value, let me know what you think is the difference in gold and we can negotiate. I didn't think to post it when I offered WTT, but I would also consider trading for item(s). Moderators, please add 'or item(s)' to the topic description.

I have an anniversary aramor that I am considering trading. I would trade for creature(s) if someone makes me the right offer. If nothing sparks my interest, I will keep it.

Sorry, it's been a while and I haven't replied. It sounds like we have a first guild and element designed. We may come up with other things we want to add to it in the future, and we can always do so when the time comes. This particular element would be a part of the pathway and has me thinking about other pathway elements. I think the toolshed and compost pile should both be accessible from the main pathway. I am inclined to have compost at the top of the hill because it's much easier to bring finished compost down a hill than up it. This would also keep it a distance from the road, where it would not cause a stir if something gets to smell for a short time. The pathway itself could be done in a few different ways. My first inclination (as seen in the fourth drawing) has a stair path up the hill. It is aesthetically pleasing and it is not suited to wheelbarrows. Gardening does not require the use of wheelbarrows, and I have never gardened without one. In a second version (as seen in the fifth drawing), the stairs remain with a second wheelbarrow path beside them. This appeals to me because it keeps the stairs, and also feels like an odd mashup of two different designs which might be better separate. One possibility is two distinct paths, one with stairs and one without, in different places. It seems to me that there is one very logical place for a path and I don't know where a second path would make sense. Finally, with regard to the placement (and existence) of the path (and this possibly belongs in the research section...) As you can see in the drawings, the path leads down to the roads and meets between the two stones. This can be construed as "four stones lay where four roads meet", which is certainly not appropriate. The path into the garden is not exactly a "road", especially because it doesn't lead anywhere (except into the garden), like the other three roads. One interesting thing that keeps sticking out in my mind is Mur's discussion 'The sun, because' (http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9197-the-sun-because/) found in the SOTIS forum. Mur speaks about a circle with four points, which has three "regular" gates, and a fourth "different" gate. I see this represented in the four stones and the three roads. In this way, the garden could represent the fourth path, which would be very appropriate. I'm interested to hear some feedback on these ideas.

what are you looking for?

1 sc

imps 1 sc each sharps and santa 2 sc each

3 sc

Water could be used in a garden for the production of harvestable food and medicine items http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/9641-food-and-medicine/page__pid__84335#entry84335 I don't see that a guild would be an appropriate fit for water harvesting, but I would still make the required items rare enough that water would remain a valuable commodity.

I stumbled upon this section about water handling in the alliances forum http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/7748-water-handling-guild-or-what/ I think using water as a harvestable ingredient to grow the garden to create harvestable food and medicine would expand the system in a neat way. It is interesting to me that Mur expected gardeners wanting water more than half a year ago when he posted this message.

I love that you included the healing properties of the listed herbs. I will try to add ecological information to each plant in the list as well.

Do we need to speak with you or Curiose for reward CTC?

[quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1304877472' post='84202'] Vale of Oblivion. [/quote] Thank you for the correction. [quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1304877472' post='84202'] As for that- how come that you assume it is smell, without any kind of sense to confirm? [/quote] Let's call the supposed smell of the Fenths Press a proposition, rather than an assumption. As you say, I have no sense to confirm nor deny it. I share my thoughts and hopefully it brings up something for someone else or myself and it eventually leads to confirmable conclusions. [quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1304877472' post='84202'] And if it were, it would hardly explain the composition of the slime...you can attack, and what you find does differ from a sponge, as you suggest. Surely one may think of those- but only because angiens look like Angels, they needn't be those. [/quote] One important difference between comparing MD slime to sponge and MD angien to angel is that a sponge is tangible, and has been described outside of the realm of literature. I agree that the initial image does not tell the whole story. I am learning that shape and form are very important details of the realm. The form of the slime and the magnified charcoal image in the previous post are a tangible replicable pattern that exists in many places in nature and serve a very specific purpose (creation of surface area). There is likely a possible mathematical equation that describes this basic geometric form. The description of angien or angel as a "man with wings" seems less universal.

[quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1304833434' post='84165'] Just excuse me- why would then the other altars not hold such a thing, and only the slime in NML? [/quote] You know, I was wondering about that myself. I also wondered why there would be slime blocking the Meeting of the Roads and not the Tranquil Plains. One thing that comes up for me is that the slime is not a feature of the fenths press scene, but rather the Meeting of the Roads scene. The two stones that the slime is stretched across are absent from all the other scenes adjacent to altars. Perhaps this gives some clue to the stones, and we can further explore this. With regard to the other altars, each has a very different feeling to it. I have chosen a different path through story mode for mp5 and I no longer will have access to the Fenths Wielder. It has also been some time since I visited the one near the Veil of Oblivion in Necrovion. (Interesting to note that the altar in Necrovion is adjacent to Veil of Oblivion, which I am considering a possible relation to Meeting of the Roads) Wasps Altar in Loreroot and the Fenth Cave in GG have very different energies than the Fenths Press in NML. They feel more "magical" if you will. The cave has a wall or doorway with interesting shapes. I have no idea how it works. Wasps altar has a glowing orb above the altar platform. I wondered if perhaps it was some sort of a guillotine with a sting in place of a blade, but it doesn't appear to have leverage to move up and down. The crushing of bodies at the Fenths Press is very physical and not subtle. It's sort of creepy, really. It could be possible that the physical pressing of bodies would produce a smell where the transformation at other altars would not.

I've been thinking about the fenths press and the slime. The slime crosses the road and keeps a person from passing along the road between the Meeting of the Roads and the Fenths Press. It seems that anything which would pass between these two scenes would encounter the slime and be halted completely or at least affected by its presence. I recently ascended to mind power 5 and I have been leaving the slime alone instead of removing it. It doesn't really affect my travel to any place in particular other than the Fenths Press itself (and Tranquil Plains, I suppose). At first it bothered me and after a few days not so much anymore. I wandered down to the fenths press to see what I was missing. It occurred to me that the pressing of the creatures and the destruction of their tissue must create some smell. I don't recall any dead creatures in my experience that don't smell, especially when exposed to heat. I wondered if the smell ever lingered over to the Meeting of the Roads, and it suddenly hit me. I think the slime filters the air passing through its flesh. The porous shape of the slime is exactly akin to the pores of charcoal, which we use as an air filter. It has a massive amount of surface area, which picks up scent and sediment as it passes through. I don't see why the slime would act any differently. I have passed through the slime from the Fenths Press and I just never stopped to think about my experience of crossing. Further consideration of the Dark slime, who I have decided to call 'Charcoal', brings me to the nature of the shade/elemental battle combination. One is fire, the other is dark. For me, this also brings connotations of charcoal. What do we know about the slime? Not much. I think it's fair to say we know it lives. One defining feature of charcoal and all living things I have ever encountered is the existence of carbon. So what do I make of all this? I offer my appreciation to the Dark Slime for keeping the Fenths Press and its odor removed from the Meeting of the Roads. I hope everybody else thinks twice before busting up the slime. You might find that the trip to Loreroot is much more pleasant without the odor of squished grasans wafting up from the south.