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Demonic God
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Posts posted by Demonic God
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Oh, since Ungod didn't post...
Ungod had earned the right to move on to the semi-finals
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Kaya has submitted a correct submission for 5x5! On top of that, they're also working on a general solution. Given the occasion, I'll also update a bit on the general case proof criteria, to make it a bit less ridiculously inappropriate.
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Alright - time to write commentaries!
Aia:
Her strategy consist of 2 simple states, and a way to "seed" the encounter.
Her first move is determined by a pseudo-random criteria (if she's facing a male or female opponent).
She has 2 states: countering her opponent last move, or lose against it. Swaps every 3 turns depending on performance.
Notably, she also checks for fixed patterns - and although it's not too useful against most strategies, it does work against Ledah's.
However, it is also quite slow to adapt to match condition, and even if one of the two state counters someone - this slow adaptation can lead to consistently close - but losing matches. Notably, against Pip
Aelis:
His strategy is to count his opponent move: their first move and their move against him, and output a counter to their most commonly used move. There's a decay value to keep the recent moves more relevant.
He also have a panic mode to swap his moves around.
I'd say the main downfall of this strategy (I was excited to see how well it would perform) - would be a few things:
- There's a very clear and apparent weakness against strategies that swap frequently. Where the move that was "most recently and most played" changes constantly - and the least likely to be played again. His panic mode helps - but the point difference could easily be too great to overcome, and many have states they could flip as well - back and forth, meaning the swap isn't too useful.
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He is one of the "tie trio" between him, Nep, and Draco - mainly due to the constant swapping.
- Notably - while Nep and Draco ties are understandable due to their highly similar strategies, Aelis output constantly changes when facing opponents with a fast changing output. Which lead to Nep/Draco strategy to immediately play against his move to output differently. Thus leading to an endless draw spiral.
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His first move strategy does however - lead to a consistent edge against certain strategies
- Against Nepgear - this gave him an edge to tie or win all encounters
- Against Draco rotating first move - this led to an endless tie, always.
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I'd say that the strategy itself has a lot of merit, as part of a bigger analytical engine
- The main downfall imo, would be that such strategy requires far, far more tuning in terms of number
- Such strategy also need to be a lot more complicated, has multiple prediction and categorization routes, which couldn't be done without a bigger model and more data/observation.
Ledah:
- He rotates around 6 moves - PSRRSP
- Simple, but not a throw. This fixed pattern has a very strong counter potential to strategies that assume their opponent has a strategy
- This meant while not a strong contender, his strategy consistently beat certain strategies.
Kaya:
Well, Kaya posted their own tactic, so I'll just add a commentary:
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The mix of unpredictability and strategy is the main keypoint of this strategy
- It allows the strategy to strongly counters certain strategies
- It allows the strategy to try and keep an equal footing against others
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Random by itself - performs badly. The larger the tournament, the less likely that Random drops out before the finals
- This is clearly not the case - and the main reason why Kaya's strategy was allowed to sit in the gray zone.
Tissy:
A complicated mess of a Finite State Machine. His strategy simply has 6 states, corresponding to counter/lose/draw against his or his opponent last move.
He updates the state every 2 moves, which allows a certain degree of flexibility
I'd say in general, his strategy is good at predicting certain counter-move strategies, and it seems designed to do just that
I'm not sure if there's any reason for the states to cycle, and you'll have to inquire him for any special reasoning!
Draco & Nep:
I'm grouping these two due to their similar strategies. They're both:
- Strategies with a self-determined first move
- Reacts immediately to opponent moves
- Both tries to directly counter opponent's move if they lost last move
The main key difference would be of these three details:
- Draco cycles his first move - whereas Nep has a fixed first move
- Draco groups/considers draws and winning as "similar" outcome to react upon, Nep groups draws and losing.
- Draco counters his last move upon winning (or draw), whereas Nep copies his enemy last move
This does lead to a surprising outcome - while Aelis draws with Draco and consistently beats or draw Nep - Nep consistently beat or draw with Draco
This is due to the limited potential interaction between the two - based on Draco first move. 2 of which leads to a draw, whereas 1 of which leads to a loss
- The skew of the 1-2 ratio could be explained by the skewed first-move Draco give if they face against eachother at latter rounds
Else:
His strategy is a weighted counter based on his opponent last two moves - simple, but surprisingly resilient.
By default - it counters certain pattern, and is countered by other patterns - hence it can lead to strong counter/weakness against strategy that is somewhat consistent in what they output
- Against strategies without a complex observation/time based state (which is most) - his strategy result in a clear win or loss. Which, in this tournament, is basically everyone but Kaya.
Yoshi:
He incorporates some logic with a simple rotating pattern for tiebreaker:
- If he wins, play same move
- If he ties, choose a pseudo-random rotating move
- If he loses, counters the enemy last move (not the way he described it, but that's effectively what it ends up being)
He also have a panic mode during which he just straight up copies his enemy's last move.
Pipstickz:
He always play paper. Except when he sees his opponent play Scissors for their last move - then he plays Scissors.
- Surprisingly effective at countering counter-strategies despite its simplicity
- Despite its simplicity - he did manage to win the tournament under specific orderings - just not very consistent.
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Commentary:
Well, most of my observation are listed at the above strategy discussion. There are also some key things I noticed during testing various setup, interactions, changing the participants, adding test strategies, removing certain participants to observe the rest and...
It was honestly, a fun experience seeing how things clashed out. The tournament is actually a lot closer than it first seem to be - other than Kaya domination being a seemingly constant as long as her confusion array isn't horridly countered due to bad distributions.
There are a few main things I'd like to talk about:
- The tournament has a very, very strong counter dynamic. A > B > C > A relations can be easily observed if you look at the documented pairing outcome - and that was a very, very strong determinant of how the results ends up to be.
- Nobody completely dominated everyone else - It was consistency against a larger, higher performing crowd that also likely to make it to latter rounds that gave Kaya their domination. Ledah and Pip - arguably the underdogs of this tournament, both have a very, very strong track record of beating Kaya. However, they are unlikely to make it to the inner rounds - giving Kaya a very strong advantage, facing mostly opponents they're comfortable beating past the first round.
- As such - a change of the tournament roster have been observed to drastically change the top spots. Pipstick - a strong Aia counter, when removed, bumps her position/ranking dramatically. Without neither Kaya or Pip - Aia actually consistently wins - or tie top spot in almost, if not all tournament. Notably however, the chances for ties also increases dramatically.
- Similarly with some slight changes - Draco actually comes out as a top winner, not Tissy nor Else as anticipated.
- The existence of observation/random-ish strategy serves as a very, very nice method of making the tournament outcome more interesting to observe - while strong counters gave rise to an interesting variation in dynamics as the participant changes, adaptation and non deterministic outcome (not strong counter - can win/lose/draw at specific ratio, such as the 1:2 win/draw chances of a faceoff between Nep and Draco) leads to variation in how likely someone will win given the same roster, giving rise to underdogs winning tournaments. This is an element that makes many sports interesting to see as well!
All in all, I had great fun hosting this, and I hope all participants feels similarly. It is unlikely this event will be re-run anytime soon (due to the nature of it all) - but expect to see similar events in the future!
Thank you all for your participation!
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The orange indicator of ritual limit for species is not seen on the new interface
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"Morph" is a trait for specific creature types.
"Morph" creatures do not have a defined upgrade. It is instead chosen from a pool of possible transformation.
As of now, there exists one creature with this trait - the Snowman.
- The snowman cannot be recruited, and is only given out as reward or gift
- The snowman cannot be traded once morphed
- They have 12 different variations
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39 minutes ago, Aia del Mana said:
I am unsure whether this were indeed a bug, or if it were related to the new interface.
It appears that tokens will only take effect during combat; thus, there is no increase in the maximum vitality when the creature were not within combat.
There are two types of VE token AFAIK, one that increases maximum VE, and one granting VE in combat as extra health / (over) - heal at the start.
Max VE affect regen amount and how much you can heal/store inside the creature before combat. These max VE boosted crit can be heal to precisely how much max VE they have after token - so you end up seeing things like 16000 / 10000 VE. Since maxVE token effect appears to be unchanging (not affected by vitality percentage) and in creature menu (you can heal them to above their base max VE to their tokened max VE) - I do believe this should be considered a bug.
- Lazarus and Aia del Mana
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2
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Creatures with tokens that improve their max VE, still shows the original max VE when viewed in the Creatures page.
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Upon loading heat - this error message is shown (everything still work per usual)
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Attached below are the screen snippings of Chrome and Firefox:
Chrome:
Firefox:
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Resources are currently being under careful review & development.
As a general rule, you collect resources because:
- You need to do or create something that requires that specific resource
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You want to increase your resource skill
- You just want to see numbers goes up
- You think they will be beneficial to you in the future - once resources gets developed further, and understand that your effort may not lead to fruition
- Someone gave you an incentive/reason to do so
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There exists very few ways to force someone to move somewhere:
- Through the use of some very uncommon spells. The more precise/powerful the spell, the higher the requirements to earn it, and the less likely it will get handed out.
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Through the use of land cleanser - which pushes people one scene down heat veins. Provided they're in the right location, and you're using the proper cleanser.
- The person in question may fiercely resist your attempt of moving them around.
- You need to be able to best them in combat to move them at all.
- By nicely convincing them to follow you.
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The recruitment cost scales linearly with your creature count, starting from 0 (which defaults to 1 - nothing is free!). This means the third creature costs 2x of the base price, 4th costs 3x, etc.
To determine if you can afford something, budgeting is a valuable skill. Having someone to bail you out in case you screwed up also works.
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They are a limited time way to teleport to a specific location, with little limitations.
They can be found in trigger panels - on the top right menu, if any exists.
They have a cooldown between uses, and can only be created by specific individuals for specific occasions.
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This is to announce/acknowledge that Kaya had sent me a correct submission for the 3x3 case. I'm eagerly waiting for her 5x5 submission!
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Wishpoints are earned, not bought. Any attempt of trading/buying WP outright will lead to punishment and the removal of the foul WP.
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Here are the methods through which you may gain SCs, GCs and promissory notes for them:
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Via finding them in the shop
- There exists a gold coin at the end of every shop category once emptied
- They may appear amidst the roleplaying items you can buy
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Being given by another player
- Via trading valuable possessions
- By completing a quest and is given as quest rewards
- By providing a service
- By borrowing
- By convincing/entertaining the other party
- Etc.
- Via logging in consecutively.
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Via finding them in the shop
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Any attempt of intentionally transferring items and creatures between accounts you own are illegal, and will result in punishment for all accounts involved - including those who helped you bypass existing methods to prevent alt abuse.
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When clicking on a player's name, you can see an option to "Mute Player". This will prevent you from seeing any messages from them in the chat.
If you are being harassed, and especially if the harasser is attempting to bypass the mute via other platforms, please report the issue to a Game Master - Chewett or Mur.
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Spell documents are awarded by players with the authority to grant them.
To obtain a spell document - find a player with such ability, and complete their quest.
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Creature boosts:
- For now, boosts a single creature type (not family).
- Takes effect after token and stat bonus
- The boost value differs. Despite there are no wordings indicating so - the buff is different for different creatures and levels.
- The creature boosted is usually the B/W original version
- The creature boosted is usually not the creature with the aura. Some may boost themselves, however
- Stacks with other buffs and boosts, multiplicatively.
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Here are the known methods to acquire credit:
- Via free credit voting links
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Via paying yourself
- You can pay directly for a set amount of credit OR
- You can subscribe to pay and gain a set amount monthly
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Via being paid for, by another member
- Others may buy a set amount of credits for you directly
- Via a wish, in the wishpoint shop
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As a general rule - resources tend to stack, whereas items, consumables, and valuables do not.
Resources are things that are gathered, or processed, using tools and creatures from the realm.
A notable exception is the memory stone - while gathered as a resource, is a consumable.
To split a resource stack, you need to use a resource splitter. They are available via the wishpoint shop and the credit shop.
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There are several methods:
- Via the Gazebo of Chaos. The method for which may be found in the Paper Cabin, and may require the assistance of other players
- By making use of jumps/teleports, if available. Note that this is rarely ever the case
- By being brought there by someone with the authority to do so
- By being given the authority/method to do so
Combat log - Heat scars total
in Bug Report
Posted
The combat log Summary page that shows Heat Scars Total - shows the heat scars you currently have - not the heat scars immediately after said battle