A Better Understanding of a situation.

[Darigan]

I had a conversation tonight with a friend, who was able to better point out things to me that I did not see before, perhaps because of my anger or what have you. They also suggested a few things which I think would be great changes.

[spoiler]2.Eon actually helps re-inforce the idea that anyone can beat anyone with enough pre-planning. The only one who can't be beaten easily is Eon herself. And the tools aren't to make up for a mistake, they are actually there to get people to leave him alone and handle this themselves. A lot of what Mur has been doing since Kingship began is to make MD more independent of him. Hence why when he had to step in for the cases instead of the council handling it he was so pissed. Those tools aren't just for Eon, they are also for wars and all sorts of contests. If the community uses them right, then they will be great. But currently, the community ignores them.

2. The problem is that Eon likes to use her stat damage a little too much, and is incredibly overpowered. That is the Communities fault, not Murs

1. that would explain why mur calls us all incompetent

2. Yup

1. and yet complains about us whining

2. You keep going to Mur when you have the tools to do it yourself. Actually, you have the tools to more than do it yourself, the problem is getting the people who have the tools to help you. Which is a community problem, not a Mur problem

2. So there is a problem, and it is a biggie, but its not Murs fault, or responsibility

1 .....not murs responisibity

2. Nope.

2. While yes, he probably could do something more about it, the facts are that he has already done more than the minimum. Thus, he has already fulfilled any responsibility he may have had in that area

2. The problem that you, and the community, faces is that people in the community place themselves before the good of the community, and the community is never willing to act for itself and instead turns to outward intervention instead of useing what it already has

2. Take the Dagger and Shovel for example. Both exist, and are usable, however the people who possess them either refuse to intervene, or will only do so for huge profit.

1. what i'd prefer is if the needle didn't require more then one person to use

2. But then you would just create a second Eon

2. It has to be a community action to prevent making the problem worse

1. problem is community is useless when shes only after me

2.Yup

1. maybe i should quit then

2. As well as saying that you don't have enough people in the community who care about you to act

2.Since each land is supposed to have a needle

1.they are all in mb

1.as far as i know

2.That sucks, and needs to be fixed

1.thats what the annoncement said

2. The Needles should be made so only a citizen of the related lands can pick it up[/spoiler]

[Pipstickz]

I'd just like to reply to one comment in your conversation that particularly bothered me.
[quote name='Darigan' timestamp='1320211590' post='95090']
1. problem is community is useless when shes only after me
[/quote]
There are [b]lots[/b] of people who want to fight Eon's skilldamage. All you have to do is ask for help, take the initiative, and those people will follow. It doesn't even have to be you, I'm sure there are a couple people who would gladly organize such a thing with you: again, just take the initiative. Even now that Manda's taken that initiative, you haven't joined in with him. The community is a strong tool, you just need to try and use it. What do you have to lose by just asking for help?

[Rendril]

[quote name='Darigan' timestamp='1320211590' post='95090']
2. The problem is that Eon likes to use her stat damage a little too much, and is incredibly overpowered. That is the Communities fault, not Murs
[/quote]
Eon might like using stat damage, but he does not have a choice about it. That is the double-edged sword of stat damage. Eon may be strong, but he will never be as strong as he could have been.

[Darigan]

It be a good start if the needles could be put in each mainland, I know the second suggestion of only making them available to citizens of that land would be a little unfair to the neutral lands but as stated the needles could also be used later on in land conflicts and since neutral areas usually don't take part in fights, and when it comes to taking down a single person only one person has to have a needle to use it.

I'll admit that what I want as far as Mur doing anything more then he has toward Eon isn't going to happen and that at the least he'll tweak the tools he's given us. Eon recently joined SI, I'll thank Dst for that gift/curse.

Pip and others including Allied Mp6 I could really use your help to diminish Eon.

Rendril....strong as he could have been? Thats scary considering how strong he is.

edit: I'd also like to know who all has the teleport to goe spell. Pm me please

Edited November 2, 2011 by Darigan

[lone wolf pup]

[quote name='Pipstickz' timestamp='1320214950' post='95091']
There are [b]lots[/b] of people who want to fight Eon's skilldamage.
[/quote]

There may be lots but they are spread through different time zones or hardly do more then just complain on forum and give ideas. I don't think gathering these people to attack Eon will work often, although they could give Darigan (and others) a 3 hour break.. not even every day since it would require movelock/mirror ritual at the minimum. (Not many can defeat his defense >>) If only there was a good community.. too bad there isn't.. adjustment to the needle towards the lack of community would be slightly motivating.

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Darigan' timestamp='1320211590' post='95090']
2. The Needles should be made so only a citizen of the related lands can pick it up
[/quote]
I wasn't aware that this wasn't the situation already... seems a little odd to me.

The Needles to me appear to be a land tool for defending your lands... I can understand why they might have been placed there for testing, with everyone able to pick them up, however it is probably about time they where moved to each lands item dispenser.

Far as it being unfair to Neutral lands... the neutral lands are called that for a reason. There are a lot of things that the Central lands get that we don't, and that's just the price we pay for the land we choose.
We don't have Kingship sponsering, or the kings ability to give us titles (PWR), or many other things. But then again, this specific tool is probably going to be used for things that are more central to the main lands anyway, like wars.

I like the idea of only people from the related lands citizenship pool being able to gather the needles, however I think that when it determines what effect to have it should consider all attacks, not just ones from members of the same land.

EDIT@LWP:
[quote name='lone wolf pup' timestamp='1320216818' post='95095']
If only there was a good community.. too bad there isn't.. adjustment to the needle towards the lack of community would be slightly motivating.
[/quote]
The Needles are community tools and SHOULD require the community to work together on it. If the community cant act without Mur to intervene, then what happens when Mur isn't available? If MD relies on Mur, it WILL die. You need to be able to organize yourselves to act without Mur, its very easy considering the tools he has given us. The only point I agree with there is that a lot of people are in different timezones, making it a much harder challenge. That could do with a change to the amount of time you have to make attacks, but I don't think anything in the order of 30 minutes or more is appropriate.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Kyphis the Bard

[lone wolf pup]

Reason why (in my opinion) they aren't placed seperately would be since they are shared tool, a person (let's say Eon) Can go to each different location and collect all of the tools to prevent others from using it on him.. or just a bunch of people with the same tools. I always thought the tool as a Necrovian tool placed in a public location due to Necrovian being closed.

[Darigan]

Thats where the second suggestion comes in of only that land's citizens being able to obtain the needle from thier item dispatch place(usually the capitals)

[Passant the Weak]

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' timestamp='1320216943' post='95096']
The Needles to me appear to be a land tool for defending your lands... I can understand why they might have been placed there for testing, with everyone able to pick them up, however it is probably about time they where moved to each lands item dispenser.
[/quote]

There are 2 different tools:
- the needle, that is not affiliated to any land and can fe found in MB
- the land cleansers (or whatever name they have) that are available in each land to "clean" their ground from any unwanted intruder.

[lone wolf pup]

I would rather suggest the needles placed in areas harder to reach for outsider but easier to reach for the mainland people such as the GG Lab instead of limiting people from being able to grab the tools, as they aren't quite shared anymore. >>

[Fire Starter]

The way I see it. Mur tried to create a world, where most of the bad human habits could be avoided. But since we are all humans there always will be some of us, who don't actually want to create a different character than themselves. So they invent a name and enter the game. And this is how the bad human nature overruns this world. It's unavoidable as long as we stay on our current state of mind. When the humankind advances to the next state, then MD could live up to my and many others expectations.

So far we have many tools, but I personally can't afford the time to even explore how they work. MD is a fine world to live in, but we can't physically do that.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Darigan' timestamp='1320215802' post='95093']
edit: I'd also like to know who all has the teleport to goe spell. Pm me please
[/quote]

There is a very easy way to find a list of pretty much everyone... its in the announcements... you are not going to get everyone who has it to pm you by having it in a litle edit in one post, shout about it

[Maebius]

I grabbed a Needle as a test yesterday, posted in the Mood panel to Fight for Weakening.... and was very happy to see the trigger box start filling up with such things Causes. (yay MD team!)
I don't know who you were, but the experiment worked. I handed my Needle away then, after playing once.
The tools seem fine, and as the wise notes above imply, all we need to do is use them.
From what I understand, The needle is in MB which is one of the Most accessible locations. I've also seen them in Loreroot's capital. (have not looked in Golemus or NEcrovion myself) Being so freely shared should encourage folks, even "weak MP3 noobs" to use them, which I believe was Mur's intent.

Also: what Fire Starter said.

[duxie]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]interesting... lets see:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]1. anti-Eon tools require a certain quantity of population;[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]2. MD population nowadays is already at limit for such tasks;[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]3. Eon keeps destroying that population (you can list the facts of how skill damage affects the gameplay);[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]so, what do we get here? interesting... [/font][/size]

[lashtal]

Entropy vs Syntropy

[Chewett]

[quote name='duxie' timestamp='1320226459' post='95121']
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]interesting... lets see:[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]1. anti-Eon tools require a certain quantity of population;[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]2. MD population nowadays is already at limit for such tasks;[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]3. Eon keeps destroying that population (you can list the facts of how skill damage affects the gameplay);[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]so, what do we get here? interesting... [/font][/size]
[/quote]

I spent a little time on inviting people to an event, and this is the response i got:

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/10210-ceremonial-heat-letting-for-our-dead/page__view__findpost__p__88901

It can be done, you just need to try and not just sit there moaning its impossible.

[lone wolf pup]

The people can't be gathered to do so every single day at all times. What does 3 hours once every month help with, as a side note idle players and alts can't help on this one, and not everyone is willing to risk being hunted by Eon for trying against him. Also other reasons >> current anti-eon tools aren't very sufficient.. they would work better on lesser players but not the strongest most cunning funny *sucking up for forgiveness* player.

[phantasm]

2. Take the Dagger and Shovel for example. Both exist, and are usable, however the people who possess them either refuse to intervene, or will only do so for huge profit.

Um what shovel? If you are revering to MY shovel of the CTs. First off I think people have a huge misconception of what it exactly does. Second, how many people have actually been killed by the dagger? I assure you death is not something taken lightly. How would the person saying this feel if they were stuck for a month or two without the ability to do anything on the character they play as their main? Such actions are often times only taken when kings/queens and other powerful people all come to a unanimous decision to do something, or is an intricate part of a predefined RP.

Saying this, amend to my knowldege the Mya incident. I do not know if she knew about the RP before it happened to her or not, she is the only exception I can think of.

[Darigan]

You mean to say the kings/queen and Z were aware they were all going to be killed before hand?

[Mya Celestia]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]Just for reference, I didn't know ahead of time that Mya was going to get killed.[/font][/color]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]A question because I'm not sure: how many needles are there?[/font][/color]

[phantasm]

most thought out predefined RPs are known by all parties involved. Not all great RP events happen off the cuff, many of them are finely tuned and discussed/invented over weeks or months.

[lone wolf pup]

4 needles I think