Should The Treasure Keepers be allowed to...?

[ZenTao]

This poll is conducted based off of what Mur has said in the thread here


- avoid asking people to find seigh, or any of the tk members. I hate those mood panel posts "find me" ..To make that possible tk has to have a way to travel to the sponsored people. That implies chase spell, and i don't like it, but i might give tk the summon spell and prepare them an office. i will see how else to do it (you can vote for it if you like)



[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11117-a-request-for-shift-of-power-or-change/"]http://magicduel.inv...ower-or-change/[/url]

Edited December 11, 2011 by ZenTao

[Shadowseeker]

I think summon spell is total overkill. Same with chase. What is so hard about just setting a camp up in a place like Willows interior, or Winds Sanc if you need a sanc?

I don't see why a TK would need the spell when all they had to do was simply reappear in those locations allowing us to send PMs....similiar like LHOs.

[Pipstickz]

Or, you could find people, use the forum and everything else available, because it's not difficult enough to constitute summon and/or chase.

[Muratus del Mur]

its 'funny'..there i this grudge against the TK, and you are voting against the tk having spells, but you are forgetting that these spells are aimed to make YOUR life easier not the tk's. With a spell, (any) the time your reward reaches you depends on the tk (meaning you can blame them!), without a spell you will have to travel yourself to get your reward, camp there, etc...

Based on this poll i will give, or won't give, a chase or summon spell to the tk. However, they need to have either headquarters or spells, can't deny them both because they need to function,regardless how much you hate the idea.

[Shadowseeker]

Well, the main restriction on this is being, say you hand them 4 casts- how can you be so sure these casts will ONLY be used for "real" TK business?

It's seemingly being more active now because of festivities and such, but actually reaching a TK is rather easy if you just save them on friendslist and can receive the things via CTC/ITC. Even then email, forums, all these methods allow easy transfer. There should be no need to "actually be present" if you do not distribute coin rewards- which honestly you never really did so far, you just give gold notes.

Summon and chase are simply too generic to be sure they won't end up as personal casts or because people just happen to need a teleport to the east, w/e. The third option would be the one I would pick, if not for above reasons. Why invent a cannon when you can already reach them if they don't decide to play with you by staying in the east permanently and refusing to give codes?

Unless you actually stated a rule saying "TK has to be physically in the same location in order to give out codes/whatever" there is no need for this- and even then I'd probably just keep goe or lighthouse them whenever they try to toy with me.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Shadowseeker
typos

[Pipstickz]

I was completely fine actually finding people in-game and only using forum as a last resort, when I was a TK, and if they try to play games with their job by running into the Tribunal and telling someone to come get them if they want what belongs to them, then it will only show their immaturity and animosity towards the community. Again, in-game and forum PM is just fine. My life is easy enough, I hardly have anything to do in MD, sometimes. Yeah, I could find things if I looked for them, but that's beside the point.

[Muratus del Mur]

on a second thought, i might make a new spell just for them to allow direct transfer of things easy (by id for example)...

[Chewett]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1323515007' post='97598']
on a second thought, i might make a new spell just for them to allow direct transfer of things easy (by id for example)...
[/quote]

That would be nice, Becuase everyone knows the abuses that chase had. And summon again can really be abused...

Make a poll that includes that option, im pretty sure many would like this.

[Udgard]

[quote name='Muratus del Mur' timestamp='1323515007' post='97598']
on a second thought, i might make a new spell just for them to allow direct transfer of things easy (by id for example)...
[/quote]
Maybe a simple interface would be better? There are issues associated with spells such as limited casts (and during "high" seasons there would be a lot of winners that will need to be rewarded, thus depleting casts quickly), and possible (ab)use of the spell outside its intended use (selling of enchanted stones). With an interface I think it might make things easier (or maybe even an item with large cast amount like some of the king items that works like the spell?)

[dst]

Grudge? I doubt that ALL MD has a grudge against fenrir.
Chase/summon spell - No. It has been abused before and it will be abused in the future.
HQ - No. Why? Aren't forum PMs and in Game PMs enough? We have ITC, CTC, MDC, WPC. It's EASY to transfer something.

[Maebius]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1323527525' post='97626']
HQ - No. Why? Aren't forum PMs and in Game PMs enough? We have ITC, CTC, MDC, WPC. It's EASY to transfer something.
[/quote]

Agreed, I'm not sure what teh issue is that prompted this sort of question.

It's not difficult to send an ITC, or CTC, or MDC, via forum or PM, or anything really. Might delay "in-person handing" of an item for an hour or twelve, but either way, using these methods means the TK doesnt' need to track down anyone hiding, nor does the recipient have to chase down a TK. If they want a prize, there are plenty of ways to contact folks in and out of game.

For those without forum access, who refuse to email, THEN there's always the option of finding a TK to get their item in-game, which puts the onus on the recipient anyway, to "work around their personal restrictions" in a sense. Accountability is not the same as efficiency.

[Fire Starter]

MD is a comunity game, right?
If anyone has personal restrictions using ingame tools to contact a TK member, how come this would also be applied to the Forum?

The option to have a spell to complete such a goal shouldn't be standing at all. If someone is refusing to fulfill certain duties, for which he has agreed, it's a simple act of abuse or lasyness. If I can't do something I ask for help or grant the responsibility to someone else.

[Seigheart]

I'm not sure whether or not this is even needed to be honest.

A chase spell, or a summon spell would have its usefulness, but a new spell that allows us to immediately transfer creatures/items to another player? Unnecessary.

It would undermine the entirety of the TKs. If I could handle every single reward dispatch myself, I would do it.

A scene that could be called the TK's HQ would be excellent. Not entirely sure where it would be though. If it were in the Lands, a summon spell WOULD be needed because of the high AP.

As far as this talk of abuse and crap; Really? I have creatures most, if not any, of you have ever seen before in my inventory, far more rare than morphs, windys, and darklings, and yet, you think I would abuse a spell(if such a thing is even possible?)? Do you understand how silly that sounds?

[dst]

Those creatures are NOT yours. And it's easy to track where crits go. A spell however is difficult to track.
And why you would set your HQ in Tribunal? Shouldn't it be an easy accessible place? What would be the point to have a HQ that we can't reach by normal ways?

[VertuHonagan]

I think if they have a headquarters it should be sages keep, but I think it would be easiest for us all if they could use a teleport/summons spell.

[Brulant]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1323555160' post='97656']
A scene that could be called the TK's HQ would be excellent. Not entirely sure where it would be though. If it were in the Lands, a summon spell WOULD be needed because of the high AP.
[/quote]

Or the Gazebo could be fixed and there could just be a dedicated teleportation code. Or is the Gazebo permanently shut off? I never heard what happened to it. If they must have an office somewhere, why not just give them a "one way scene" somewhere that can only be reached through the Gazebo and automatically links back to the GoE when you want to leave?

Echoing those before me though, I don't really feel that there is a need for an office or the summon/chase spells. It's pretty easy to get in contact with any of the "trainees" and there are already so many ways to transfer things…

[No one]

I am pretty sure that if they set up a camp in Tribunal if i'd need a reward I'd buy a "send to gazebo" stone and I'd call them to me

But then ... it is just me

[Grido]

An HQ would be in Tribs, cos the alliance's land is the Tribs....yes there's the high AP etc, but still Tribs would make the most sense. Not that I'm certain they need one.

As for getting there whilst not using the summon spell - we have two options that occur to me in about 5 seconds without really thinking about it;
- The public meeting jump link (a variant of), Mur used it at Beserker's Charge, pretty sure it would be able to be adapted for another purpose relating to TK's
- GoE code (as someone mentioned), though either the code needs to be in a place everyone can see it to use it, or sent out by TK's to people who need to collect things, the code possibly being changed "regularly".

But that's only if they should get an HQ.


Seig, you say you won't abuse it, fine, you might not (probably won't), but I could probably name 3 or 4 people in MD history that have also said (quite genuinely) they wouldn't abuse this or that, and then down the line did exactly that - so I hope you forgive any apprehension I may have to it.


The ~only~ reason I see for TKs and other players to have to meet in person, is for coin transfer. Coins can't be done via ITC unless you're extremely patient, all other forms of reward I believe have some form of transfer code? - Correct me if I'm wrong there. Does this warrant the necessity of an HQ or certain spells? I believe not, personally.
I'm not saying that people might want to meet in person, only if there's a need for it.

[ZenTao]

TK are to be guilty for the things others have done? Abuse, it's funny to me that it's no problem for the majority that have spoken against this idea have a vast amount of spells that would easily be abuse able yet no one has distrust in them, Why Us? I for one know I would not abuse, what do we need to do to prove to all of the" ye of little faith"? We must prove that we will do no harm because people in the past have promised and abused that makes us automatically guilty? Real fair people Thanks.

[Rumi]

I think a TK headquarters in TB makes sense, and I don't think it needs to be so deep that it's a pain to get to. I think it might be cool if the treasury was a new locale accessible from 7_foundation_1 (essentially underneath the statue hall). It's easy to access and sort of applies the idea of "buried treasure". Just a thought.

[Shadowseeker]

The vast majority of spells was REMOVED when it comes to abusable ones. Even some that were not abused, like mine.

And the same could be said about chase- the whole history of it was that it kept getting abused. Summon is similiar, and how can we guarantee you wouldn't silently use it for your own purposes, not TK ones, when it doesn't even appear monitorable because it doesn't show on triggers?

The worst issue I have with this is, you do not NEED the spell. All you have to do is simply walk around or for heavens sake PM the code- please tell me about a reward that is usually dispatched and needs presence. If you cannot even handle that, give me a list and let me do it, I'll even do it for free- the only delay will be when the reward goes someone who goes inactive.

Even few GC reward ones could be handled over ITC, if you just keep getting them one after another.

This whole thing just reminds me of the old dojo when calyx asked and got, but never needed...or rather, only needed because she was unable to handle it herself.

As for HQ, rolerelated it would make sense, but it would be harder to access. Maybe one close to lib's plains or so.

[ZenTao]

[quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1323586732' post='97683']
The vast majority of spells was REMOVED when it comes to abusable ones. Even some that were not abused, like mine.

And the same could be said about chase- the whole history of it was that it kept getting abused. Summon is similiar, and how can we guarantee you wouldn't silently use it for your own purposes, not TK ones, when it doesn't even appear monitorable because it doesn't show on triggers?[/quote]

I never said anything about wanting a spell or a headquarters, what I fail to understand is what's with this attitude? I am perfectly fine with having no spells no headquarters, what i don't find to attractive is the way the mere question has brought out distrust in the TK. I believe I awarded you once, what did I do so terribly wrong to you for you to feel so mistrusting? Also By that means, do you abuse spells? How would I know if you abuse spells if they don't show up in the trigger box?


[quote name='Shadowseeker' timestamp='1323586732' post='97683']
The worst issue I have with this is, you do not NEED the spell. All you have to do is simply walk around or for heavens sake PM the code- please tell me about a reward that is usually dispatched and needs presence. If you cannot even handle that, give me a list and let me do it, I'll even do it for free- the only delay will be when the reward goes someone who goes inactive.[/quote]

What are you talking about here? Did I ever say I needed this to get the job done, every thing I have ever had to dispatch I did in fast and timely manner and how could you imply I do this for some sort of pay? I have gotten nothing and expect nothing from giving out awards. Makes no dang sense to me at all!

[Pipstickz]

ZenTao, you are taking SS's words as a personal attack when it is nothing of the sort. He is merely stating his opinion and backing it up.

[Shadowseeker]

[quote name='ZenTao' timestamp='1323592807' post='97686']
How would I know if you abuse spells if they don't show up in the trigger box?
[/quote]

That's EXACTLY the point. I could summon you around all day if I wanted to (and had the spell), nobody else but me the summoner and the receiver would even notice anything changed. And the receiver might even believe it was a mur teleport. Summon is a spell that does NOT show in triggers as far as I know.

[quote name='ZenTao' timestamp='1323592807' post='97686']
I am perfectly fine with having no spells no headquarters, what i don't find to attractive is the way the mere question has brought out distrust in the TK.
[/quote]

The issue does not lie in TK getting these spells, it lies in the fact that we don't trust ANYONE who would get them for "administrative" purposes now. People would clamor if Mur gave those for rolerelated things again, because he removed chase before and summon only to kings- giving them to anyone who may be administrative, say Grido because he needs to get to the players who are spamming chat or whatnot is the very same thing. (that would actually make some sense because he might need to get to them, but he is doing perfectly fine without and does not demand it)

You just happen to be the one who made the poll AND did not say anything regarding your opinion- so essentially everyone assumed you made the poll to get it. So, you get a huge amount of distrust to anyone who could get such an abusable spell.

Edit: I saw Pip's reply too late, but yeah, what he said.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Shadowseeker

[Chewett]

[quote name='ZenTao' timestamp='1323592807' post='97686']
What are you talking about here? Did I ever say I needed this to get the job done, every thing I have ever had to dispatch I did in fast and timely manner and how could you imply I do this for some sort of pay? I have gotten nothing and expect nothing from giving out awards. Makes no dang sense to me at all!
[/quote]

I, as others have said also, see no reason why you need spells, headquaters or anything else. All gifts except coins can be given out via codes, and coins being given as prizes is normally much less frequent.

As the first trainee who gave me a reward summoned me to find them, i re iterated to them that there is no point having the person meet when you can easily just give them the code. Seems a waste of everyones time for people to trek to wherever they want you to be, and if that was stipulated and wasnt within easy reach i, along with others, would consider using a spell to move the TK to your location.