The Council Meeting

[awiiya]

tl;dr I want a meeting with Council to discuss things. They must choose a time within a week.

If you've been reading the forums you've probably noticed a number of things, the most of which is that I and a few others have been critical of the Councils decisions. Though others may not have been so direct, I myself have claimed that the Council is running out of time.

Time until... what?

Until they lose our (my) support completely. What does that mean? That means that their authority, though secure in mechanical ways, will lack popular support.

What does that look like? I would start organizing rallys, I would post speeches describing exactly my qualms, I would imagine creative ways to express my disdain for this anonymous body that has held such a tight grip on the future of MD for so long. Things might get rather ugly rather fast. It would be in game, I would play by the rules. My goal is not to rip MD apart.

What are my issues? This may be a conversation for another place, but a quick run down:
1. I don't think anonymity has promoted accountability. Lines of communication between the Council and the MD people have been slow and out-of-game. We can send you emails, but sometimes they take forever to get a response. And when was the last time the Council posted on the forum? There needs to be a conversation between us and them, and right now there isn't.
2. I think the Council has lacked a full understandings of the mechanics of MD's soul. This is rather subjective, but none of the things they've developed have seemed to be pushing MD in a new or interesting way. From what I've seen, they take care of bills, pass out creatures, and generally keep the "order." That's not a way to create an atmosphere of interest.

What would I want in their place? Again, a question for another time, but:
1. A singular leader that people know and communicate with directly.
2. Much much much more efficiency.
3. A more creative direction.

That's rather vague, more details will follow when the time is appropriate.

I think the Council is doing some things well - managing MD's finances, not being corrupt, etc. But some of their duties are being left behind. I would like to work with them to fix it, but if they don't start talking, that can never happen.

Before I start that whole process of somewhat peaceful, yet outspoken and direct, revolt, I'm proposing a meeting, the first of its kind.

So, because I have no idea who the Council is and don't know what time zone, the Council gets to decide when and where we meet.

My preferences:
In game, perhaps at Awiiya's Way because then I wouldn't have to uproot myself.
Preferably around 5:00 game time.

The Council should show up prepared to answer our questions. We will not provide a list of questions beforehand - this will be the first time that the Council is forced to answer on the spot. If you need to delegate one person to go out of the Council, so be it. Do whatever you need to do to make this work. The general topic of the conversation will be the errors that we think the Council has made, what needs to be improved, how to improve it, and some sort of demystification.

If you have further questions about the organizational details, my forum mail and in game mails are open and available.

If the Council fails to choose a time and date within a week, consider me a rebel of sorts. I won't ask to compromise twice.

Awi

Edited June 14, 2012 by awiiya

[Phantom Orchid]

Eon's post brings up an important discussion - and I think this thread is a logical continuation of that.

I truly believe every player here wants what is best for MD. I also truly believe that is the goal of the Council.

What I think Awiiya speaks to is the balance (or lack thereof) of power and how it is accounted for (or not) within our realm.

How do we reconcile the discrepencies of the council's actions with what some very important players have come to expect from them?

In my opinion, the lack of transparency and secretive nature of the Council make it difficult to begin such a conversation unless they take some initiative to start one.

And I do believe the onus is on them - because without inhabitants in MD, they are, at best, rulers of nothing.


Furthermore, I hope, for the sake of some very important roles in the realm of MD, that the Council decides to step up and meet, face to face, so we can hash all of this out and move forward.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Chewett]

[b]TL;DR: wtf do council do? I NO WANT A STUPID "GAME MANAGER" AGAIN, LAST ONE WAS RUBBISH. council creativity needs to increase. Suggestions how?[/b]

--------------------------

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
1. I don't think anonymity has promoted accountability. Lines of communication between the Council and the MD people have been slow and out-of-game. We can send you emails, but sometimes they take forever to get a response. And when was the last time the Council posted on the forum? There needs to be a conversation between us and them, and right now there isn't.
[/quote]

Murry clearly made them anon for a reason, is this right? i dunno. I would personally be most interested in asking Mur why council was made anon and not public. Then again, i look at the last time we had one soul game manage (LOL) and... yeah, comments about that below.

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
2. I think the Council has lacked a full understandings of the mechanics of MD's soul. This is rather subjective, but none of the things they've developed have seemed to be pushing MD in a new or interesting way. From what I've seen, they take care of bills, pass out creatures, and generally keep the "order." That's not a way to create an atmosphere of interest.
[/quote]
Its relatively easy to sit there and go "X lacks understanding" because honestly, i don't think anyone understands it lol. i certainly dont. Please step forward if you are sure you know all about MD's soul and ect, i would like to learn more. The point im trying to make, is that Mur is very much an artist, wheras i see council more as an accountant. They do stuff, but not necessarily creatively ect. Perhaps that needs to change with some more direct interaction with MD peoples.

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
1. A singular leader that people know and communicate with directly.
[/quote]
Sounds a great idea, having someone public that can be communicated with, is a nice idea, but i would not like someone to "run" MD publically and openly... See my comment about a sole leader below

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
2. Much much much more efficiency.
[/quote]
I want the council to be faster, better and sexier! its quite a subjective and "random" thing to say. All of you wont know that i deal with the council with regards to forum payments and a few forum related matters that need someone "in charge". For example i went to council regarding the MD Wikia thing. Now, you only need to add a couple of "me" asking them a variety of questions, and jobs mount up. I have no clue what the council does. I know that they reply to me (sometimes lol) regarding questions i have, and i can logically work out that they surely must reply to others, but honestly i dont know what they do, so i dont think its entirely fair to say "they need to be better" when they might be actually doing a shedload more than i ever imagined. You guys didnt know they dealt with all the forum and site related "admin" answers, because i never told anyone. What else do they do?

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
3. A more creative direction.
[/quote]
yes+++ lol SUPERYES - how?

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
The Council should show up prepared to answer our questions. We will not provide a list of questions beforehand
[/quote]
Ofc, that sounds logical, but... (see next point)

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339708212' post='114782']
- this will be the first time that the Council is forced to answer on the spot. If you need to delegate one person to go out of the Council, so be it. Do whatever you need to do to make this work.
[/quote]
council != one leader...

I dont know the internal structure of a council, there might be one leader, if so, ignore this all. But the last time we had one leader, it worked TERRIBLY. For those who remember shoeps... no,,, just no. One leader is one of the worst ideas ever... You get massive issues with biased nature. I dont care how much someone claims to "act unbiased" it cant be done.

By "forcing" a council to elect and allow one person to speak for them all, that's just stupid... A council, by definition is a group of people, who make decisions as a group. Essentially you are asking for them to say "X rules MD" which... as i said again, isnt a council. This is, assuming that there is no central "king" of the council, so if there is, ignore me.

-----

I like the ideas of this, it sounds really good, but i would definately oppose any structure open or closed where there is one person going "I KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR MD", admittedly we currently "apparently" have a "council" doing this, but i even prefer the idea of having two people, than one.

[quote name='Phantom Orchid' timestamp='1339709104' post='114784']
Furthermore, I hope, for the sake of some very important roles in the realm of MD, that the Council decides to step up and meet, face to face, so we can hash all of this out and move forward.
[/quote]

Remember when Murry first made rendril his coder? he got tons of spam with people asking for tons of different stuff to be done... thinking about this, i think this might have been the reason council is anon.

----

and even more recollection. i shall recount something murry said about Jonn (for those that dont know, he was the first LHO leader/evil dude/wonderful guy/crazy man/THE JONN)

Murry said something along the lines of "I have Jonn so that people think he is the evil one, and that i can sit in the background as the cute developer doing all the evil things and blaming him.

Iv talked to people about random crazy theories, but having a council for everyone to blame, sounds exactly like the murry iv always known lol

Edited June 14, 2012 by Chewett
added a TL;DR

[Liberty4life]

have to agree with chew, one person in place of coucil means we get GM back, and thats bad, and he retains anonimity of council thats even worse, still imo council should remain, they should keep anonimity and the current method of their work BUT community should be able to put a veto on councils decisions, and council seat rotation should be scheduled like... idk every 4-6 months

[Chewett]

[b]Question: Do people think its a good idea for people to make on the spot decisions, regarding complex issues, with one person that assumes they know best for MD?[/b]


[b]aka a Game Manager?[/b]

thats essentially what you ask for, when you ask for a meeting to answer questions on the spot, with a single member of the council, and as you can probably tell, im against that

[BFH]

I don't agree with the fact that they should show their identity, maybe just show up sometimes with an MD official character....

Why not? Simply because their authority will go down even more. Example: If I realize one of them was/is a close friend of mine I won't have any respect for their authority or I might try to abuse his/her friendship... (Not my case at all, but just an example of why they should be anon...)

[Phantom Orchid]

Awiiya gave that as one idea, to have one person 'out' themselves.


If a representative doesn't jive, why not create character/s (insert creativity here) who are council members who can meet and have a face (and *still* remain anonymous) people can actually talk to and negotiate with.

I don't think MD can afford to _not_ have this happen!

Oh, and there should be lots of tomatoes and a dunk tank constructed, as well as some rope (I'm still waiting to hang Jester) XD
And someone be sure to pilfer the pub for booze.
This is serious, but that doesn't mean that it can't be met with a sense of humor.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[awiiya]

Again, I don't really want to have complex conversations here about What Should Replace The Council without first giving them a chance to speak out.

I mentioned that they should appoint one person to step forward IF that makes it easier for them. If they want to all show up and take questions as they see fit, I'm fine with that too. Whatever works for them, is the point I was getting it.

I'm not necessarily 100% sure of One Leader to Rule Them All. What I like most about the idea, however, is that it gives us a central point to go to and talk with. And it allows us to give feedback in a far more manageable way. We don't currently have that.

And it may not be necessary to unveil their true identities, though I'm not against it. We should, however, have WAY more idea of how the Council works, who is on it, etc. Keeping us in the dark isn't protecting us, it's making us blind and uninformed.

I agree Shoeps was a wreck. But another in that situation may not have been.

I do want a meeting. I don't care who meets there, as long as they represent the Council in one or many bodies.

As to you Chewett:

How more efficiency - appoint someone to communicate with.
How more creativity - appoint someone in the realm whose job it is to be fun and imaginative. Give them free reign. Let them be public, it's good to have characters that are in front of the scenes. Ask us.
And yes. I do think it's a good idea for the Council to answer questions on the spot. It's not like we'll be asking them to decide the future of MD. More like, Who are you. What do you do. Do you see what we hate?


Awi

Edited June 14, 2012 by awiiya

[(Zl-eye-f)-nea]

The things you say they do well look like things you couldnt really know about other than guessing and hearsay. I don't agree with most of this stuff, I thought point 2 was their job? but I agree they are stupidly slow.

As someone who was anonymous and allowed my identity to be released I can tell you it isnt worth it. Not for you and not for them. No matter how much good you do that you will try to explain very very few will listen or understand over the sound of their own stuff - at least the council guys are in a group. So council, if you are reading this, course I'd love to meet you too who wouldnt thats the catch right? but if we are to meet you wear your masks. I dont want to see your faces.

Z

[Seigheart]

Z, I agree completely. IF the Council makes an appearance, use Master of Ceremonies... This would be a Ceremony, no? Just... not a good one.


The Council is on Trial.

As far as I can see, the public is starting to question your decisions. People are demanding answers. Perhaps, you should answer... within a TIMELY manner.

[Maebius]

[b]tl;dr: Mixed feelings. Efficiency and slightly improved Public relations may be needed. Maybe make an alt or "mini-announcement Forum" for better transparency in activity, while keeping Final Answers as they are now, just quicker. Still, Thank you for keeping the game running so we can have this debate to begin with.[/b]

My feeling on this is mixed. I don't know the council, never tried to worry who or how many were there, and assumed they were also in charge of "coding stuff" and "admisitrative stuff" as Chewett mentioned for forums and wikias and general logistics. They are busy, important folks!

However, I do agree that they are probably either too few in number or rather over-worked currently. I have no evidence to back this up other than the rather long period of time between any emails being answered, and the necessity of sending "reminder" messages if I don't hear back within a month.

Granted, not all my personal pet projects are worthy of more than a one-line reply, but I wonder if there's some sort of "email workorder/ticket system" to track requests? I know I've asked the same question more than once and gotten a "No, we never received this before, but thanks for asking.." (when I know because I saved the "we got it, please wait a week" form-letter replies.)
Add to this the relative Silence on the forums lately in response to Big Dramatic Events ™ and I just think they may be overworked or acting somehow like a "hung jury" behind the scenes, trying to reach consensus.

So, Efficieny may be the most important thing to work with?
Public relations may need a tweak too, and I'm not quite sure how to go about such things.

Perhaps, a simple forum, similar to "Announcements" where someone with Voice of Council could post "[i]we see this happening, and are watching current resolutions[/i]." type comments. This would not really Change the situation itself, but would at least reflect that there is Activity or Discussion happening, rather than silence. [size=2](There's some theorum about silence being frustrating because it means either no one read it or no one cared to reply, and that uncertainty is more irritating than a non-committal answer, but I can't cite that at the moment)[/size] The phrase "I Hear You" is an imporant one in therapy, after all, for soothing unbalanced emotions.

In terms of losing MagicDuel's soul, I disagree, I have seen the realm as being in the hands of us players from the first week I started playing, as long as we play by the general Framework of Mur's Outline (which seems to be, "[i]play how ya want, unless we say no[/i]"). I missed the RPC days, but heard grand stories of Items being created out of thin air for folks who made them "real" in their playing. I've heard grand stories of, well, Stories. I've heard it said that Mur would allow sneaky creative things, then make a rule to prevent it, but the original Creative Thing was[i] almost[/i] welcomed. I wonder if that sort of dynamic Manifestation of Us could be encouraged somehow? Maybe MD has changed in "soul". What made it change? us? Council? Surely not Mur taking a vacation. It's self sustaining now.

As far as the statements about one Game Maanger being a bad idea? I'm suspect of that statement as True in a general sense.
To horribly simplify things, the Roman Empire did great under one Head Guy. Hitler did some impressive things for Germany (ignoring the BIG BAD THING). Napoleon Bonaparte rocked his world too. Mur build this realm for us. Just because one Leader is bad, does not mean all are.
Perhaps ONE dedicated or thick-skinned individual could create an alt, or use Master of Ceremonies as an example, and at least Watch. This relates back to Public Relations I mentioned.

For all Land and Role and Event things, Mur always asks for one point of contact, yes? Maybe that's needed in reverse?

To conclude though, regardless of the issues, The Council is (I think) made up of players like us. Their role is most likely a labour of love, without pay. They may need a bit of restructuring or shift in keeping the Spirit of MD running smoothly, but they do a lot to physically keep the game of MD running, and for that I thank them.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Maebius

[Liberty4life]

oh since this is topic about highest authorities in md... so we have council, we have mur as east demigod, and there is one more "secret" demigod that replaced tengri, now i wonder, is that demi still active, is he maybe played by council or in any way influenced by them, is he there to counterbalance council, etc etc

[apophys]

Note that Mur being away might be partly an experiment to see how MD handles itself for the most part; to see whether his brainchild has grown independent enough yet. I suspect that Mur may be trying to make MD self-sustaining and, more importantly, self-evolving without his input being necessary.



Replacing the council with anything without knowing the full extent of their duties is a [b]very[/b] bad idea. They are doing their job, slow and unpopular as it may be, it gets done. Anything new may not do it at all.
However, something must be done to fix the issues at hand.

As a first step, we need to get the council to sit down and talk.
A discussion, in game or on the forum, is absolutely necessary to gather information about the situation at hand. For this, the council needs a permanent representative, even if this representative remains anonymous and is unable to make any promises or decisions. Master of Ceremonies would do for now, but probably not permanently.


[b]I suggest that we also elect a representative for the talks[/b], so that the council representative is not swamped with questions from all sides. And we need to make a list of topics that our representative would bring up in talks.

Edited June 15, 2012 by apophys

[Kyphis the Bard]

I'd assume whoever the council nominates as their mouthpiece (if they choose just one person, they do have the option of discarding annonymity as a whole, remember) that whoever they choose would become nothing But the mouthpiece.

ie still part of the council, in that they get all the correspondance, but they no longer get to make any decisions of their own in council matters.

Logically, I would assume they just get whoever is doing the job of forum mouthpiece to extend the role into MD, useing something like MSN to tell them what to say without revealing their identity >.>
But that is just me <.<

All that said, from my interaction with the council I strongly suspect that it is organized so that certain types of tasks are handled by individuals. So it isn't necessarily the whole council that isn't working right.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Kyphis the Bard

[Chewett]

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
I'm not necessarily 100% sure of One Leader to Rule Them All. What I like most about the idea, however, is that it gives us a central point to go to and talk with. And it allows us to give feedback in a far more manageable way. We don't currently have that.
[/quote]
Yeah, its much more useful if we can all go to complain to one single person... i wouldnt want to be that person because that would be hell. See my point RE rendril...


[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
How more efficiency - appoint someone to communicate with.
[/quote]
That says more paperwork to me lol. you essentially force someone to deal with the public, all the time. Have fun

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
How more creativity - appoint someone in the realm whose job it is to be fun and imaginative. Give them free reign. Let them be public, it's good to have characters that are in front of the scenes. Ask us.
[/quote]
Its all well and good saying "yeah we know what to do" I can claim that council needs to work on angiens and bring X Y Z into play. But the thing is that not everything can be done right away.

I really like the Development Focus threads because it gives us a chance to properly say "we would like X to be done first" because there isnt the time to do everything.

What about we, publically, appoint someone to collect ideas, and plans things together, and who relays these to the council? Personally i would think that they will be swamped with all interesting and cool ideas, none of which can be made because of time constraints.

How many of you honestly issue personal requests to council asking for this and that? Maebius mentions it. I was always under the impression that asking for personal stuff was considered bad form for Mur, and therefore iv applied it to council. But knowing people, i would bet numerous emails will still be asking for X and Y stuff.

Again, it falls back to, how much time do council have, and how are they currently using it, feedback is nice council

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
And yes. I do think it's a good idea for the Council to answer questions on the spot. It's not like we'll be asking them to decide the future of MD. More like, Who are you. What do you do. Do you see what we hate?
[/quote]

Whats the reasoning for "on the spot" answers? I see little use of them, apart from trying to "trick" them into revealing themselves, by saying some form of personal information that reveals who they are.

I can see a conversation saying, "yes we are watching" and pretymuch ending there, i dont really see what you want to ask. I personalyl want more information about waht they do, and what they are spending time doing. If X is taking a lot of their time, then we as a public could say "yeah just send offensive messages to everyone asking for personal requests" or something along that line.


[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
Note that Mur being away might be partly an experiment to see how MD handles itself for the most part; to see whether his brainchild has grown independent enough yet. I suspect that Mur may be trying to make MD self-sustaining and, more importantly, self-evolving without his input being necessary.[/quote]

Mur being away was not planned by Mur. End of discussion.

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
Replacing the council with anything without knowing the full extent of their duties is a [b]very[/b] bad idea. They are doing their job, slow and unpopular as it may be, it gets done. Anything new may not do it at all.
However, something must be done to fix the issues at hand.
[/quote]

Si, without knowing what they do, its relatively hard to judge if they are doing it badly. Its very easy to say someone is doing a bad job, when you are ignorant of what they do. You may say, for example, that chewett is very slow with doing forum related changes. But you might not know that i also handle forum backups, hosting details including talking with them, Skin modifications to fix forum related bugs, adding/removing features that invision decide need or dont need to be in it, run the wikia as a representative to wikia.com, and manage md-archives on the admin side, and make backups for it. Not to mention the various works that needs to be just done as the forum admin such as banning and other parts.

There is no one really that can judge what im doing, since no one else knows how long i spend on it, and such.

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
As a first step, we need to get the council to sit down and talk.
A discussion, in game or on the forum, is absolutely necessary to gather information about the situation at hand. For this, the council needs a permanent representative, even if this representative remains anonymous and is unable to make any promises or decisions. Master of Ceremonies would do for now, but probably not permanently.
[/quote]

again, people seem to think a "representative" is a good idea, maybe it is, who wants to be spammed to death.

Personally, i think awiyya would be an interesting rep, since they would be dealing with a tonn of rubbish. Although, my only concern in "nominating" them as forum rep, is that the timezone is bad for the majority of people, where most MD's are in EU time-zones.

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
[b]I suggest that we also elect a representative for the talks[/b], so that the council representative is not swamped with questions from all sides. And we need to make a list of topics that our representative would bring up in talks.
[/quote]

An organiser, whome runs the event is a good idea, not someone speaks for everyone... need o say game manager again?

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' timestamp='1339749381' post='114831']
I'd assume whoever the council nominates as their mouthpiece (if they choose just one person, they do have the option of discarding annonymity as a whole, remember) that whoever they choose would become nothing But the mouthpiece.

ie still part of the council, in that they get all the correspondance, but they no longer get to make any decisions of their own in council matters.

Logically, I would assume they just get whoever is doing the job of forum mouthpiece to extend the role into MD >.>
But that is just me <.<

All that said, from my interaction with the council I strongly suspect that it is organized so that certain types of tasks are handled by individuals. So it isn't necessarily the whole council that isn't working right.
[/quote]

again, we dont really know how the council works, a meeting or post to at least explain a few things to us would be nice. I dont really care which format its in, just information is wanted by us peasants lol

[Fang Archbane]

Ok, so, while taking the better half of an hour to read all this, i came up with what seems to me, a very simple idea.

so simple in fact, that i feel kind of stupid, since i feel i am missing something, and it cant simply be this easy.

nothing in MagicDuel is this easy T-T

but heres by two Wolfen cents.

make a scene, in which, as you walk in, there are an X amount of throne styled chairs (however many people there are in Council), all seats taken, all faces (and possibly bodies) hidden in darkness.

in the center of the stadium (since yes, i imagine this scene to be a stadium) there is a small... ballot box of sorts.

in this box, one could leave messages with ones worries, troubles, questions, etc etc, to be managed in game, not over email, and i feel that would be MUCH faster.

now, all the council would have to do, if/when that scene is built, is log into characters Council Member I, Council Member II, Council Member III, etc etc.

answer some in person questions if caught online

answer some messaged ballot box questions if all alone

etc, murrylovin etc.

like i said. this seems almost... too simple to be right. but thats my two cents. i fully support the talk Awii wants to have with the council, but i suggest that afterwards, however the talk may go, this scene gets made asap, so that we may more easily, effectively, and understandingly, speak, and get to replied to, by the Council.

Edit: i realize the Council Members may be very busy indeed, but i feel they could cycle, make almost a time chart, of when one Council Member could be online, then another when the last one needs to get off, yada yada, so that theres some speed in the system, as in person andswers go much quicker o-o

Edited June 15, 2012 by Fang Archbane

[Seigheart]

So, this seems to be a VERY important thread, and there have been others that the Council SHOULD have replied to... it's been a day+ for several of them...


Why hasn't there been a reply by Council yet?

Isn't this something they should deal with promptly?

[Chewett]

[quote name='Fang Archbane' timestamp='1339785555' post='114943']
like i said. this seems almost... too simple to be right. but thats my two cents. i fully support the talk Awii wants to have with the council, but i suggest that afterwards, however the talk may go, this scene gets made asap, so that we may more easily, effectively, and understandingly, speak, and get to replied to, by the Council.

Edit: i realize the Council Members may be very busy indeed, but i feel they could cycle, make almost a time chart, of when one Council Member could be online, then another when the last one needs to get off, yada yada, so that theres some speed in the system, as in person andswers go much quicker o-o
[/quote]

Less on topic, every idea you have for MD, apparently needs to get put into effect right away Fang, you have said this about multiple very different things, each time impressing on us your newness, yet saying the idea "must be implemented now". And in my view, most of the things you are impressing that must be done "right away" are very important matters that need discussion. See Angiens shrine point where you essentially demanded a role to give out angiens without anyone else even commenting.

More on topic, did you read what i was saying regarding singular people making decisions? Unless you give said person a power to make overall decisions on the spot, again there will be bad decisions and we go back to a game manger.

As for the ballot, how is that different from emailing? And how by making them ingame, makes it faster? if we assume the same process is taken for pms as is for email, then there will be no change.

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1339785866' post='114946']
So, this seems to be a VERY important thread, and there have been others that the Council SHOULD have replied to... it's been a day+ for several of them...


Why hasn't there been a reply by Council yet?

Isn't this something they should deal with promptly?
[/quote]

A day in MD is nothing, mur has left important matters for weeks without answer.

Posting comments like that, isnt likely to get a faster response, its just you wanting to make another jibe towards them, which definitely doesn't help matters.

[Fang Archbane]

i dont deny my newness when it comes to MD politics Chewwy o-o

in fact, i embrace it D:!

i have said this multiple times, and ill say it many more still, im as old in game as Murry is, even if my current main character does not reflect that o-o

i do feel my ideas have a high demand to be implemented asap, but thats simply because i do not suggest new things lightly o-o

now, true as it may be, i didnt get into MD politics until VERY recently, making me one of the greater greenhorns of the people >>

i still try though. i throw ideas out there Chewwy, and they can get shot down, or ridden on the way up, either way,.i think i help by simply gving opinion :3

and last but not least, i feel that an in game situation would possibly have a slightly faster system because if their on, their on, if not, its whatever.

one cant tell if theyre on the other side of the email they got or not at any given time o-o

id feel a bit better knowing theyll get those batch of pms when they next got on o;-

[awiiya]

As I previously posted, I arbitrarily asked that the Council respond, set a date, and meet within in week... So, by next Thursday this meeting should have occurred.

Awi

Edited June 16, 2012 by awiiya

[AmberRune]

[cquote]
Part of how the council is built is with anonymity as part of its
structure, because of this sadly we cannot attend this meeting in person
nor in cloaks despite some of us really wanting to. This is something
Mur was very specific about and we will honour his wish with regards to
this. As some of you have raised on the topic, we all discuss the things
asked of us, any questions posed at such a meeting would lead to the
perspective of individual members, rather than us as a whole. Every
decision we make is made between us, so any individual view would not
represent the council as a whole, and multiple representatives would
just mean multiple individual views. In addition, our identities may be
easily determined by our speaking, like suggested, in game. If we were
to be publicly known then those of us in game would not be able to
effectively assess what is happening in the realm, as players would
modify their behaviour when we are around - much like players do when
Mur is. There is also a benefit to being anonymous when dealing with
players that are known to those of us in game, as we can be a lot more
impartial due to a lack of repercussion on familial relationships,
should we decide unfavourably towards them.

We are not coders. We try to manage requests and requirements and keep
the game functioning. We also have none the less tried consistently to
create and evolve things. The difficulty being that many things that are
creative require a substantial amount of coding time and the coders
available do not have a lot of time for the sheer amount of things that
would be ideally done. In addition, we are frequently receiving personal
requests from people for things which we have tried again and again to
accommodate. We add these to our lists of things to do and discuss them,
in doing so often other things are delayed but we are always impressed
and enthused by the community ideas and imagination for the things they
ask for and so we try to do these things so that you each might know
that even though we are slow to do them we still respect your wishes and
try our very best to accommodate them. Sadly we see that our accepting
them seems to suggest they will be done quickly, and this is just not
possible as there are other things we do for MD that have higher
priorities. While you may think two weeks is slow, in actuality with the
discussions as well as the coding restrictions we have, a month is a
fast change period. The MD Birthday Cake for example may have seemed
like a small and simple idea, but in reality it took a much larger
amount of time to get working properly than we initially perceived,
delaying other projects in an attempt to get this finished.

We enforce the rules of the game and, where needed, we will evolve
them. The new rules then take precedent over the old ones based on the
evolution of the game. MagicDuel would be empty without players as has
been said, but without a ruling force there would be chaos, and more
over it would die faster than the lack of players.

We have seen a number of people both in email and generally commenting
regarding Mur and his word vs ours. Please understand that Mur is still
the creator and owner of MagicDuel, and that will be the case no matter
what. He added us to his system himself, and with that he gave us
authority over MagicDuel in order to ensure that it continues - that
means, in terms of authority, we are equal to him. When he is not here
to keep things ticking, we are. This is not an easy task and we know
many of our decisions will be, and are, unpopular, but they are none the
less necessary. We know it can be aggravating to see some of these
decisions come to pass that you as players do not agree with. Please
understand that we do have members who watch what is going on and voice
player views, these are incorporated in the decision making process.

Often it is true that some of our decisions are delayed due to the
'hung jury' issue. This is because many of us are willing to stop and
listen to one person's disagreement and hear them out to see if we might
want to change the decision that was come to by the rest of us. This
frequently happens when a council member sees something a small group of
players have said and throws it into the conversation. Most requests,
and our own ideas, require a lot of consideration and discussion before
they might be transposed into the realm which hopefully helps you to
understand why things seemingly take a long time. We also have to
consider the implications of things we do, not just in terms of it's
popularity and how current players see something as good or bad, but
also along the lines of the game as a whole in it's future timeline with
the planned growth developments being taken into account. Many of the
things people may want to see fixed as soon as possible are put on a
back burner while something else takes priority, but when we are able we
take something you say and try to fix it, such as the PM titles on RE RE
RE issue that was brought up on the forum. We attempt to try and get
some of these quicker fixes into the game as they are brought up on the
forum so that the issue is dealt with fast, however this also slows down
other coding projects. In the Development Focus thread we are getting
your information regarding what you want done, so that we can prioritise
this better.

We feel that having an updates thread where the current information on
what we are working on is a great idea. We would like, if he will
accept, to have Awiiya as a direct go between, between ourselves and
yourselves the players. If he accepts, he would be kept up to date with
what we are working on, and will be able to talk to the players
regarding any issues they have or recommended improvements. Awiiya would
also be informed of what we are currently dealing with so that he can
respond to individual players questions regarding their queries since it
seems you want to be able to ask this information from a player. He
would be in charge of keeping a public thread updated so that people
know what stages of development features and items that we are working
on are at. Having multiple queries from multiple people come to us in a
single email makes it easier and quicker for us to respond to. This
would make the work of the council much more open and public, since he
would have the power to ask us for more information so that it is
distributed, instead of telling a multiple people the same information.
This person will also be in charge of telling us the public's mood,
arranging for polls and other collection of information, so that they
can tell us directly, "The people want this feature to be worked on
first". This will be easier for us and yourselves, since we can work on
something that "you" want done. If you have some issue with what is
currently being worked on, and wish to enquire why "your" feature isnt
being worked on, you can find Awiiya and talk to him directly.

We are sorry that many of you are frustrated. We are trying very hard
for you even if you cannot see it, or do not accept it. We spend many
hours trying to deal with MagicDuel's requirements in a fair and
balanced way. This, unfortunately, does take time, and we know ourselves
that this is frustrating.

MD Council[/cquote]

[awiiya]

This puts me in a somewhat awkward place.

I feel disappointed that the Council could not make an in game meeting, but their reasoning seems believable, and I do agree that a number of people would use it exclusively to determine their identities. I am willing to compromise on that. You addressed the issue at hand, which is what I most wanted.

Even though I still find anonymity distasteful, I will continue to maintain a degree of trust in Mur's original judgment and the Council's ongoing one.

There remains many questions that I would like answered and still consider critical to the realm's understanding of the Council, for instance, how many members and what current projects are rated most highly, but this new role perhaps puts me in a place to find and share the answers to those questions.

I remain as I was before unsatisfied with the Council and believe that a better job could be done, but it would be idiotic of me to turn down the position they offer, mainly because it puts me in a position to fix a good number of my issues: communication being the foremost. Creativity, it seems, is again crippled by coding, but that may find a solution sooner or later too.

I will say this upfront: I am human, and I will fail you at some point or another. I ask that when I do fail you, tell me, so that next time I can fail better.

So, I will accept this position and channel my burning desire to improve the realm into it. This is not an end to the Council-needs-change movement, it's a beginning.

[b]How I look in this role[/b]:
How to reach me:
1. I am available in game primarily, on most nights around 7:00 game time give or take a few hours, and available through messages, which will be replied to within a day unless I'm away on a vacation. It should be a no-brainer where to find me, I don't move. I regret that there's a gate that has such a high Action Point cost, but there's little I can do about that.
2. A forum message is a backup, but I would encourage you to find me in game. Who knows, you may have some fun. Remember fun?
3. YIM, email, etc. are not appropriate means of communicating with me. Those who have my YIM may continue to talk to me as usual (which... by usual I mean the barely ever you contact me), but I won't respond to requests related to this role. Apologies.

The information:
1. I will share whatever the Council provides me either in person, in message, or on the forum in the public board. I will not hoard or reserve information for myself. Those who know me know that I promote transparency, and seldom shirk a question.
2. I imagine that Chewett will open up a forum board so that I can carry out the updates that the Council asked for.

This changes little about my current role and function, i.e. expect that I remain a somewhat insane philosopher on the edge of the realm who will confuse you often.

But in communicating with the Council I will be clear and precise. That, I think, you all deserve.

And let's see if this lumbering beast can't be streamlined a little (read: a lot).

Awi

Edited June 20, 2012 by awiiya

[Chewett]

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1340035199' post='115266']
2. I imagine that Chewett will open up a forum board so that I can carry out the updates that the Council asked for.
[/quote]

What a wonderfully strange mind you have to imagine me doing this

If it helps, i can, i havent been told to do anything. This can be handled via forum pm if needs be

[Handy Pockets]

Congratulations Awiiya.

It was many months ago that you planted the four seedlings for me to water while you went away for the summer. You were/are always
thinking of ways to 'plant seeds' of ideas, and to bring them to fruit.
With your new position I see it as a wonderful way to help continue the growth of the realm which is one of your strong desires.

See you at Awiiya's Way...