Discussion about Revival Quest by Seigheart

[Jubaris]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345651701' post='120744']
For months now, there have been dead people in the realm.

Hedge Munos,
Seigheart,
Phantom Orched,
Fang Archbane.

Whether these characters were killed for being rude, wish to die a true death, or for simply helping another person out, they do not need to remain dead.

Therefore,

as Head of the Treasure Keepers,

I am challenging the entire realm to revive at least one person using the new Master of Death, Molquert.

Complete his quest, and revive at least one person, and you will be rewarded with a WP/code.

Limited to one WP per person, per revival. One person can't revive all four, and expect four WPs.

Seigheart,
Master of the Hoard
[/quote]

Isn't this a conflict of interests? Just saying...

Edited August 22, 2012 by Shadowseeker
adding content, hijack first post

[Seigheart]

Of course you are "just saying".

No, it's not.

There is no reason for anyone to revive me. If anything, I'd rather that they didn't, because I'd just be killed immediately again.

If you are unhappy with this challenge, feel free to email Council, but do not spam this topic.

[Chengmingz]

Typo: Phantom Orchid.

C

Edit: Just delete this after it's fixed

Edited August 22, 2012 by Chengmingz

[Chewett]

I would think that it's a bad idea to revive hedge when he had a private ceremony with peace when he died. I feel it unfair to impose the own quest to force others to make someone do something against their will, I'm sure peace will confirm that he wished to remain dead

[Seigheart]

I have spoken with Hedge, he is okay with either being dead or alive.

Again, please do not spam this topic. PM me, or open a new one.

[Jubaris]

Could a mod then move all of these posts after the first one into a new topic, for analyzing the quest rather than 'violating' this one for official quest announcements?
I think we have an important discussion on the horizon... There are several controversial details about this quest.

[Ivorak]

I've been told that it takes more than one person to win Molquert's quest. If so, wishpoints might be problematic, unless you wish to give multiple wishpoints for one revival.

Anyway, I am offering a bounty of 20 silver for the first team to do so, as announced in the mood panel. Maybe you could mention that in your first post too (I didn't plan to make a forum topic, but if there is one, it might as well state all relevant awards).

[Phantom Orchid]

As much as I would like a free WP... This seems like a conflict of interest for someone who is dead and participates in the revival process.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Phantom Orchid

[Shadowseeker]

I just modded this as requested, but my opinion on this:

While it's fine to use personal resources, using an official position's (TK) reward stock is what like Curiose did at times, leaving a mixed reception overall. Thus while I fully endorse statements like: I will pay people out of my own pocket, etc; I think TK stock should not be used for a case like this, where conflicting interests obviously intersect.

[Seigheart]

I do not get any tangible reward. I get an item effect removed from me. That is all.

I, as the Leader of the TKs, can use the Treasury as I see fit, bar a few restrictions, one of which, is that I may not use it for personal gain.

Is getting an item effect removed a personal gain? No. I do not think it is, because that would imply that being killed is a permanent negative effect. Or that being "alive" is something that is a reward, not a normal state.

A normal state is NOT a reward or a benefit of any kind. It's something that is the norm. Right? So, in my eyes it is not a reward. Of any kind.

[Jubaris]

Do we really have to argue about you having benefit of getting revived?

I don't know how do you plan us to continue discussing things if you refuse to accept elementary logical conclusions.




edit: need to add that the reason why I see this important is because it is a question of official MD rewards that are supposed to be "super neutral" (which they rarely were, but still...), yet they are used as a personal tool for subjective use rather than heading towards objective direction.
If this were your creatures, your coins or whatever that is yours, you could pose as many ridiculous requirements for them to be used as a reward. WPs and TK property are something different.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[Mallos]

So nobody has been revived by this new method created specificly to revive people?
It seems like people need a little more motivation then, ex. a wishpoint. Whether or not Seigheart gains from this (which there's no guaruntee he will) I think he's doing a good thing sponsoring the quest.

[Seigheart]

Which is EXACTLY the point, Falronn! But people focus entirely on the fact that it's Seigheart, lets nit pick and find something wrong with this JUST because it is Seigheart.

I am sponsoring Molquerts quest. That is my job as TK leader. To sponsor quests. It is a GOOD quest, otherwise there wouldn't be such a high reward as this.

[Liberty4life]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
I do not get any tangible reward. I get an item effect removed from me. That is all.

I, as the Leader of the TKs, can use the Treasury as I see fit, bar a few restrictions, one of which, is that I may not use it for personal gain.

Is getting an item effect removed a personal gain? No. I do not think it is, because that would imply that being killed is a permanent negative effect. Or that being "alive" is something that is a reward, not a normal state.

A normal state is NOT a reward or a benefit of any kind. It's something that is the norm. Right? So, in my eyes it is not a reward. Of any kind.
[/quote]

you said enough with this, imo this should get ya removed from position of power ya hold atm, luckly its nut up to me

umm lets see, ya get item effect removed? its thats how its called now? being alive a normal state? being dead is perma neg thing? well to some yes, but to some not and for those who want to change it have big problems

last time i checked revival costed 20gc on market, for ya even more, alternative was priceless help from whole community, but that was obviously only one time thing, and now with molq, which is again hard thing to do

so when we look up all the facts ya are usin tk resources to get yoar ass revived which in turn will save ya a lot of fuss ya would have to do if ya were to do it molquert-way (assuming its even possible for ya do it, well molq q is hard thing ya said it yoarself and nobody managed to do it yet) or in other way it would save ya tons of gold

oh also i dunt have to remind ya ppl that spartiatis left game cuz of this "worthless item effect" seigh is tryin to get removed

moreover the fact that others are dead as well is yoar very slim excusse nuthin more

so oke seigh... its not a personal gain gettin "item effect" removed at all... how come then removal of this item effect is currently most expensive thing ingame

this concludes all, but dunt worry seigh, murry aint around and council doesnt read forums, and me is lazy to mail them about this nonsense, ya can stay head of tk

[Jubaris]

One more thing.
Revival is supposed to be done by those that are dead themselves, with their will, efforts in doing that Molquart's quest.
Will of the community for their survival is legitimate too.

But this is neither, this is buying people off, there's no will to get them revived, it's just the will to get the fancy rewards. Now, it's ok if someone from the list buys people off to help him... That may fall under the will I guess, though lazy kind... But, I'm saying this again, you're using here TK resources, you're using WP as a reward, and you are on the list, yet you still claim this is "all cool"?



You know what? Let's say your are unbiased and the fact that you are on the list is not bothering your reason. WP of a reward would be ok for this case... But without making it public, if you would reward someone AFTER the whole event to recognize their great achievement, rather than clearly state here what does someone need to do for your WP, then it would be legitimate. This way, you're buying people off to do your dirty work.

[Tal]

the way I see it, you'r offering a wp from tk stock to get yourself revived.

[Maebius]

This is an interesting case.

On one hand, I agree that sponsoring the Molquert quest with a WishPoint is a valid thing. Good for you to inspire soem activity there, Seigheart.

On the other hand, if Seig is the one who gets revived, that crosses some pretty strong grey-areas and looks suspiciously like "buying a revival with TK rewards". Regardless of the original intent.

I don't envy Council to judge/jury if this is "fair" or even "legal" or not.
I say, let the request stand, and see what happens when revivals actually happen? If Molquert can revive multiple people, and requires more than one person's effort to Succeed, then it gets even more muddled.

But for my opinion, I think it's a valid try, at least, until the act itself happens and we go through the 'fallout' of details then.
If it turns out badly, then we know not to do it again. If not, and someone gets revived for a WP, then, yay, someone's alive and someone else gets a wish! Yes, I would like to play a game.

(I also am not even going to get into the statement of death being an item effect, or "normal", or any of that. I'll keep my opinions to "sponsor a WP for revival" as the original topic)

Edited August 23, 2012 by Maebius

[Pipstickz]

Molquert is a Council-sponsored quest, the reward being something special and unique: revival. To me, the fact that people are offering rewards like this is an insult to anybody trying to revive people for its own sake. If the powers that be find that Molquert is not working, it'll change, though it may take time. Patience. If you still want to reward people for the effort of reviving people, I would suggest not advertising it and seeking them out after they do it.

As for the conflict of interests stuff, there's not much else to be said: Seig, good job, you have an excellent way of causing problems and then getting angry about it.

[Kaya]

Seigh, could I get a WP for the one to get me back to balance? Being balanced is normal, right?

Molquert should be very well able to get his own rewards for the quest. If you want to reward those that resurrect you I think that would be a good thing, but only as long as you use your own funds for it.

[No one]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
I do not get any tangible reward. I get an item effect removed from me. That is all.

I, as the Leader of the TKs, can use the Treasury as I see fit, bar a few restrictions, one of which, is that I may not use it for personal gain.

Is getting an item effect removed a personal gain? No. I do not think it is, because that would imply that being killed is a permanent negative effect. Or that being "alive" is something that is a reward, not a normal state.

A normal state is NOT a reward or a benefit of any kind. It's something that is the norm. Right? So, in my eyes it is not a reward. Of any kind.
[/quote]

Let us count the contradictions :

1. "I do not get" ... "I get"
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
[b]I do not get[/b] any tangible reward.[b] I get[/b] an item effect removed from me. That is all.
[/quote]

2. "I get "... "\not for personal use"
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
...[b] I get[/b] an item effect removed from me. That is all.

I, as the Leader of the TKs, can use the Treasury as I see fit, bar a few restrictions, one of which, is that[b] I may not use it for personal gain.[/b]
[/quote]

3. "Is getting an item effect removed a personal gain? No."


4. "I do not think ... being killed is a ... negative effect"
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
I do not think it is, because that would imply that being killed is a permanent negative effect.
[/quote]
then why do you offer such a huge price for not being dead ?

5. being dead is the same as being alive
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
Is getting an item effect removed a personal gain? No. I do not think it is, because that would imply that being killed is a permanent negative effect. Or that being "alive" is something that is a reward, not a normal state.

A normal state is NOT a reward or a benefit of any kind. It's something that is the norm. Right? So, in my eyes it is not a reward. Of any kind.
[/quote]

6. not getting anything but getting back to "norm"
[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345667673' post='120774']
I do not get any tangible reward. I get an item effect removed from me ([i]a.k.a. being dead[/i]). That is all.
...
A normal state ([i]a.k.a. being alive[/i]) is NOT a reward or a benefit of any kind. It's something that is the norm. Right? So, in my eyes it is not a reward. Of any kind.
[/quote]

7. personal understanding & personal idea vs ... what ?
Personal idea: "A normal state ([i]a.k.a. being alive[/i]) is NOT a reward or a benefit of any kind."
Personal idea: "So, in my eyes it is not a reward"

Who are you joking ? ppl use of item (RL justice) is showing you that being dead (RL: in jail) is NOT a reward, it is a PUNISHMENT.


I tried to twist my mind to try to see from your point of view when you wrote the above but I failed.

Sorry Fenrir, i don't see how can you be rational and still write what you did and even more the one holding an official portofolio ("Head of the Treasure Keepers").

[Seigheart]

It's surprising how messed up people are in this "community".

[Chewett]

Simple, ask council to say its fine, tell community to go away, problem solved

[dst]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345724079' post='120855']
It's surprising how messed up people are in this "community".
[/quote]

Then why do you still stick around?

On topic:
Head of TK making a quest so "people" can get revived while he's one of the dead people? C'mon! How stupid do you think I am?
Do something else to prove you're unbiased. Get yourself revived first and THEN sponsor the quest for the rest of the dead people. How does that sound? Not really appealing, right?

[No one]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1345724079' post='120855']
It's surprising how messed up people are in this "community".
[/quote]
Considering your prior replies on this topic, this last comment was the best joke I have heard for months.
Thank you so very much.

[Ackshan Bemunah]

Telling someone who is in a position to learn, with the teller (cough cough dst cough cough lib as well cough cough) in a position to teach, to break off from the group and lose that position without using it is (cough very cough) disappointing and fist-clenchingly hurtful.

If you can't recognize a difference in assumptions, the appropriate response is NOT to assume stupidity. Ignorance, maybe...

Seig is in a position where he thinks the revival quest needs additional sponsorship, yet has a personal stake. The appopriate solution is that this muchneeded sponsorship come from another source (probably not council unless absolutely necessary):

But somehow all those who could do thhis have a personal stake....AGAINST SEIGHEART...putting him in a REALLY AWFUL position.

Hope I am right or at least not impossible to understand or correct.

[size=1]Edited to avoid promoting violence.[/size]
[size=1]Re-edited to promote netiquette at request of moderator.[/size]

Edited August 26, 2012 by Ackshan Bemunah