The VISION Group Plan

[Fyrd Argentus]

[Mods - if we could get our own subforum under factions, please move this thread. Thanks.]

This thread is intended to be the forum for discussion how the newly formed VISION Group is going to bring balance back to the death situation in the realm. We have a fair number of members [17 adepts, 9 supporters, plus me] in this group, I think we need to start doing something.

I will lay out my plan first, but this must be a group effort and everything I lay out is just a proposal. Of course I have blinders on and am focussed on what I have and can do. We must think more gloabally.

My plan is essentially to create items with enchanted/encoded functions to help the dead. I reference 4 musical items in my backstory, and have been working on giving them real substance in the realm. I pledge that if the group gets them working, they will be the property of the group, and custody will be passed around as the group sees fit. Rumor has it there are 8 killing items, and 8 revive items already in existance.

Various crafters have expressed a willingness to execute these creations, but they are not necessarily coders. Furthermore, the "price" of a revive item is high in terms of effort. This group was mainly formed to show the will of the community is behind this effort. I'm also hoping for help in getting the actual coding done - it is beyond my art. I have no wp's currently, but have some offers.

In addition the Community Garden folks have an apple branch item they are seeking to turn into a "tree of life" immobile cauldron-recipe type item that makes revive fruit. While this effort is congruous, I think we should view it as independent, and I cannot speak for them.

I have no involvement with the "death solution" offered by the council, and don't know how well it is working.

The items I have and their status (I'm hoping for resource help here - note close facsimilies can be transmogrified) :

1) Knator-hide Bodhran (drum) - exists but is not enchantable.
2) Knator-bone Flute with Winderwild feathers - I have bone resources and WW to sac. Want feathers.
3) Bagpipe of medusa hide and bones - I have bone resources and WD to sac. Want a rubbery hide.
4) Autoharp of mithril (elemental heart metal) and unicorn hair -- I have piles of silver coins and Elems and Knators to sac. Want metals or hair.

The functions that might be worth trying to create (expect lots of discussion):
Revive the Dead ("flip the switch one time")
Breath in some Life -- a temporary revive, for limited time -- might be less "expensive" but harder to code -- least likely choice
Protect Life -- gives temporary immunity to being killed
Summon the Dead -- brings dead folks to your location
Lead the Dead -- causes dead folks to follow your movements
Show the Dead -- causes dead folks to be visible in chat (even if logged off/idle ???)

Edited October 14, 2012 by Fyrd Argentus

[Grido]

As has been said several times before;

Forum modifications, in this case a new section, need to be messaged to sys-chewett. They will not be done otherwise.

[Fyrd Argentus]

[quote name='Grido' timestamp='1350243357' post='123991']
As has been said several times before;

Forum modifications, in this case a new section, need to be messaged to sys-chewett. They will not be done otherwise.
[/quote]
Was already done, Grido.

But if/when we get the response we hope for, we'll need to move this thread.

Thanks.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Fyrd Argentus

[Seigheart]

I'd like to offer my help with this as well.

[dst]

Question: do you expect that all those functions to be implemented by using the MD Script? Because that is the only "code" that is available for coding items and from what I have seen (I agree, I am not a coder so my experience is very limited but I do have an idea of what and how) the available functions are let's say "light" and I doubt they are enough to implement "effects" like the ones described.

[Fyrd Argentus]

Evidently the revive function exists in MDscript - if that's what is used to code items. (I can only code clickies, and there is no revive function told to us there...)

I have a sense that there is going to have to be some high-level intervention on behalf of the group for even that much to be realized. The rest may well fall into the catagory of "new ideas" that would have to be implemented on deeper coding level.

But heck, we have to ask or none of this will happen.

[Maebius]

What dst mentions above is my concern with the listed "effects".

MDscript, which is what some of us can put in "usable" items, is severely limited when it comes to actual in-game effects. It can't change "database" variables, or even post to chat without getting into trouble-territory. (trust me I've walked that line between what code can't/shouldn't do and gotten told not to take steps in certain directions)


That said, announcements have mentioned that making an item "usable" is pretty easily done. I also could have sworn I saw a forum post or announcement specifically saying "if an item uses existing code, or copies the functionality of something else, that can be done easily" but can not find the exact quote for that at the moment.

Since there are Revival items in-game, as well as the Slave Leashes (which work on corpses), there is a decent chance some of your ideas could be implimented without too much coding required (beyond Rendil or mur or Council copying that sort of Core-script to your items)


[quote][color="#CCCCCC"]Ann. 2146 - [2011-12-27 16:49:42 - Stage 11][/color]
[b]Making items functional[/b]
I am always making items functional if the functionality already exists on other items. All you need to do is to tell me (Mur) about it. It is slow and I might reply after ages, but eventually it will get done. There is no cost or requirement to make an item functional, IF its description and name fit with an existing item functionality in the realm.[/quote]

[Kaya]

Looking at the list I think most should be possible using triggers, though I must admit my knowledge about item MDScript isn't to big, the only one I think might cause some trouble should be show the dead.

I do, however, not really like the idea of having all these powers on one person. I would rather see them as shared tools or preferably items created using a cauldron with a quick decomposion time to prevent anti dead item hoarding.

[dst]

[quote][color=#CCCCCC]Ann. 2146 - [2011-12-27 16:49:42 - Stage 11][/color]
[b]Making items functional[/b]
I am always making items functional if the functionality already exists on other items.[color=#ff0000][u] All you need to do is to tell me (Mur) about it.[/u][/color] It is slow and I might reply after ages, but eventually it will get done. There is no cost or requirement to make an item functional, IF its description and name fit with an existing item functionality in the realm.[/quote]

See? That is my problem. Mur would do it. But would council do it? My personal experience in that area is not a good one...

[Dragual]

Why not attempt to create some items of imortaility where, when held, you cannot be killed someone with a death item. These would probably be extremely rare...

[dst]

If you want to create such items, you need to create a counter to it (not necessarily another item) . Otherwise those items will be way too overpowered.

[Maebius]

[quote name='Dragual' timestamp='1350307927' post='124022']
Why not attempt to create some items of imortaility where, when held, you cannot be killed someone with a death item. These would probably be extremely rare...
[/quote]

Balance would dictate a "super killer' then, wouln't it?


I also for some reason think that there are less than 8 Revival items (only 4-5), but the cooldown is shorter than the Killing tools... I could be wrong though,. It's all rumor.


(EDIT: darn you and your speedy fingers, DST! )

Edited October 15, 2012 by Maebius

[Dragual]

[quote name='dst' timestamp='1350308220' post='124023']
If you want to create such items, you need to create a counter to it (not necessarily another item) . Otherwise those items will be way too overpowered.
[/quote]

Agreed. Would it be hard to code the imortality itme though? An item to where as long as you have it in your inventory it blocks the regular death items?

[dst]

I have absolutely no idea about how hard it is to code such a thing.

[Kaya]

I think such an item would require the kill items to check if you have it (Which can easily be done with MDScript, but probably requires altering all kill items)

An easy way to prevent it from being to over powered is having it disintegrate after a while and then either allow the owner to recharge it, rendering him mortal until he does that. Alternatively make it possible for anyone to make them using shared tools, keep the disintegrating and set a limit to let's say at most 5 of these items in the entire realm, like with the candy limit.

[Chewett]

There are two types of coded items. Hardcoded and mdscripted

Hardcore items are made by Mur and can do anyhing. Examples are the kill, revive and other ones.

Mdscripted items normally cannot edit any db vars or players vars as maeb said.

In other words, everything you described needs you a coder.

But why shouldn't we do stuff? Mur has always said community action makes stuff, I see no reason why that has changed.

Dst raises a valid point though. To balance really strong items they are made so the cool down is long. How do you balance them?

[Fyrd Argentus]

So, to confirm the plan....

Our goal is to raise enough credibilty to cause Mur and Company to hardcode a handful of items for use with the dead.

I'd count it successful if those items became shared resources, reset each Tuesday, provided this group has some control over who can pick them up.

Step 1 is decide on the number and function of those items.

Step 2 is to give physical form to those items

Step 3 is raising our voice in petition to Mur and Company.

I'd be thrilled if these items followed the pattern set out in my backstory, but that's just one option.