Better than a council?

[Zyrxae]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1356974508' post='129373']
And i dont think thats a fair assement. Its all rubbish. The entire idea of a poll is skewed. All you guys are doing is offering random opinions with nothing really to back it up, its useless commenting really, as useless as the data itself. Espically when the aim of the poll is for some specific outcome.[/quote]
If either Maebius' or Awiiya's hypothesis ("In any "community" the most vocal tend to be the ones who are dissatisfied with something"; "In a forum, the strong opinions, both positive and negative, are more likely to manifest, masking the less opinionated in the group", respectively) is correct, a poll would more accurately reflect the opinion of the community as a whole than would any group of individual posts. What better way, then, is there to gauge public opinion?
-
[quote name='Menhir' timestamp='1356933496' post='129332']
1. IF we will have a council who will be anonymous in the future why they don´t have trust points like the kings and special players always had? This would be the easiest and fastest change possible.[/quote]
Interesting idea, but how to factor in that they rotate?
[quote name='Menhir' timestamp='1356933496' post='129332']
3. So I suggest everyone with a proper Age ingame needs to do some kind of job matching his/her time limit he/she has. That means we all need to grow together and all those ego games we play need adjustments too. Without feeling closer to each other and without the awareness of a "we are all sitting in the same boat" idea, we will only change something for a short period of time. We should think of long term solution.[/quote]
Like an expansion of [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13232-get-involved-and-help-magicduel/"]this[/url]?
-
[quote name='Mallos' timestamp='1356976012' post='129376']
About the voting, the only thing I dislike is the agree and strongly agree options. You should only be able to agree or disagree, no strongly.
[/quote]
Why?

As for your oligarchy, I wonder at the differences and similarities between OGame's playerbase and our own. After a brief wiki glance, it seems more structured than MD..
-
[quote name='Ivorak' timestamp='1356975030' post='129374']
That said, I loved the updates from the council posts. I'd also like to see more members of the council with specialized roles. If you need this, go to this person. Some things should require consensus of the council, but other things can probably be delegated to individual council members.
[/quote]
Has anyone emailed the Council about this? I've been meaning to but RL...
-
[quote name='DARK DEMON' timestamp='1356937968' post='129336']
But things such as deciding TK leader (just an example) should have no say from the Council. The one chosen by the majority of the Community should be selected without doubt.
[/quote]
Kingship (and other votes?) were weighted; the MD awards were not.
Every weight, including weighting all votes equally, has its pros and its cons. Perhaps a discussion of these is called for, though it may only come about at the time of the next election.
-
[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1356937034' post='129335']
Discussions, decision makings should be totally transparent. Even better if each council has a forum account (with their council name). Alternatively, posting a chatlog of each discussions for the community to comment and feedback before they continue on with the decision making steps.
[/quote]
To use an old post that (I think) applies in this context,
[quote name='The Council Speaks' timestamp='1340030328' post='115260']
Part of how the council is built is with anonymity as part of its
structure, because of this sadly we cannot attend this meeting in person
[b]nor in cloaks[/b] despite some of us really wanting to. [i]This is something[/i]
[i]Mur was very specific about[/i] and we will honour his wish with regards to
this. As some of you have raised on the topic, we all discuss the things
asked of us, [u]any questions posed at such a meeting would lead to the[/u]
[u]perspective of individual members, rather than us as a whole. Every[/u]
[u]decision we make is made between us, so any individual view would not[/u]
[u]represent the council as a whole, and multiple representatives would[/u]
[u]just mean multiple individual views.[/u] [b]In addition, our identities may be[/b]
[b]easily determined by our speaking, like suggested, in game.[/b] [i]If we were[/i]
[i]to be publicly known then those of us in game would not be able to[/i]
[i]effectively assess what is happening in the realm, as players would[/i]
[i]modify their behaviour when we are around - much like players do when[/i]
[i]Mur is. There is also a benefit to being anonymous when dealing with[/i]
[i]players that are known to those of us in game, as we can be a lot more[/i]
[i]impartial due to a lack of repercussion on familial relationships,[/i]
[i]should we decide unfavourably towards them.[/i][/quote]*
Going off the concept that the meeting proposed in [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/12479-the-council-meeting/"]this topic[/url] would be much like Seigheart's proposition, [i]this[/i] supports their anonymity, [b]this [/b]their reason for not discussing important issues in a public setting, and [u]this[/u] their distaste for appearing as anything but a coherent entity.

[b]While it might be a bit more work on the part of the spokesperson to cloak individual opinions in Councilspeak, vocal members of the community believe this effort would be repaid in greater respect for the Council as an institution.[/b]
[i]If the above is taken care of, anonymity should not be a problem.[/i]
[u]Obviously Councillors have individual views. Why hide them?[/u]

I would like to hear more reasons against the possible discussion forum before forming an opinion. My current views on the Council are based more on what it avoids than what it does.
To that end, another one of [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11086-question-time-post/page__st__20#entry98919"]these[/url] would be a nice wrap-up present, especially if [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11086-question-time-post/#entry97086"]questions[/url] [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11086-question-time-post/#entry97076"]such as[/url] [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11086-question-time-post/#entry97071"]these[/url] were answered.
Idle wondering: were these posts +repped after the fact, or were they just too juicy to leak?

[sub]*Over-emphatic as this appears, it was the clearest way I could think of to show what is a reply to what without dissecting the Council's post.[/sub]

[Liberty4life]

[quote]As for your oligarchy, I wonder at the differences and similarities between OGame's playerbase and our own. After a brief wiki glance, it seems more structured than MD..[/quote]

its totally different type of game, its strategic game thats based on "empire building" and "cat and mouse" hunt with no rp touch, meaning they dont really have community issues, their issues are: if player stops playin, if player changes side, if enemy player arrives in their neighboarhood, if friend gets his fleet smashed by enemy either by phalanx or ninja or if friend losses his moon

but since he is speakin of oligarchy, then i guess that means that like top10 players are on the same team and that their alliances (includin wing and sister ones) control whole universum, so they are rule whole server so to speak (especially if server is old 2yrs+) meaning their main issue is to keep this alliance together

as you see nothin really much of similarity, its political stuff like the ones that would be tied to one land in md, they certanly aint involved that much into game development, i stopped playin that game 5 yrs ago when i started playin md, and back then only one thing introduced into game was idea of a player, armored cruiser, that was it, but then again that game is owned by big company who owns many other online games

you cant compare council to your alliance leadership on that server, but instead you should compare council with gameforge development advisors or board of directors advisors, since same level of power is in question when it comes to decision making about how game is going to be developed, or you should compare them to whole machine of GOs SGOs GAs who supervise players that they dont break rules, and each of them is supervised by higher rank, and even GA is supervised by region chief (and if i remember correctly he gets paid while others are all volunteers), and while you dont know who those "advisors" are, you know who GOs are, but they arent on the top of power like council is, this kind of machine that gameforge has for its games md cant afford

edit:

[quote]its strategic game thats based on "empire building" and "cat and mouse" hunt with no rp touch[/quote]

with this i meant it is competative game with 0 custom content, md is more of creative game, so to speak, in ogame like in every other competative game you try to be best in given "system/rules", while in md we tailor our own "system/rules"

Edited January 1, 2013 by Liberty4life

[Mallos]

Good points, what Lib said.

Why I dislike the the "strongly" options is because it skews the results. Its basically the same if you just look at them as only agree or disagree options as well, but I could guess there might be willingness to choose the strongly option just to help support the effort more (like the outspoken people) rather than because you actually do strongly agree. But i guess its kind of the same thing. I still dont like it though.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Mallos

[Chewett]

[quote name='Mallos' timestamp='1357024903' post='129395']
Why I dislike the the "strongly" options is because it skews the results. Its basically the same if you just look at them as only agree or disagree options as well, but I could guess there might be willingness to choose the strongly option just to help support the effort more (like the outspoken people) rather than because you actually do strongly agree. But i guess its kind of the same thing. I still dont like it though.
[/quote]

The voting is based on a 5 point likert scale (whether awiiya knew this or not) which is the standard measure for many forms of questionnaire. It may suffer from extreme response bias and various other forms but it is still a pretty good measure even if you are using it for arbitrary things like popularity.

[Ackshan Bemunah]

It's easy enough to group the stronglies with the less-stronglies and do a separate analysis that way.

[Udgard]

It really depends on how you want to see it, really. I work in a market research agency, so we deal with that everyday. The most common method we use for 5 point-scale questions is to look that the "top/bottom box" only, that is, the "strongly" answers.

[Ackshan Bemunah]

[quote name='Udgard' timestamp='1357043051' post='129414']
It really depends on how you want to see it, really. I work in a market research agency, so we deal with that everyday. The most common method we use for 5 point-scale questions is to look that the "top/bottom box" only, that is, the "strongly" answers.
[/quote]

The perfect choice when image is what makes the difference. Interesting.

[awiiya]

I was well aware of the 5 point scale, and well aware of standard practices in questionnaires. Furthermore, the idea to take an approval rating and ask a few other questions came from the United States Presidential Approval Rating. However, where that poll employs random sampling, my poll (hopefully) captures all of those who have any interest in the subject.

As for the analysis, I'm planning on doing a number of analysis, some lumping the agrees together, some separating them out.

But enough about the poll - we are here to talk about what would make the Council better, or what should replace them. From what I'm hearing, not many people really want to abolish the Council... and most would rather just have them modify themselves to be more transparent.

Awi

[ZenTao]

I wonder why this topic was created, will it change anything? Is it another outlet to voice our opinions into the void of def ears. It seems that though we speak our opinions they only become shot down or patronized. Why Does it matter if we know who the counsel consists of? I don't care who they are, I care about the actions they take and the manner in which they do so. The counsel may be plenty fair to those who have never had to actually deal with or defend themselves against accusations and odd questions in which they demand your attention and immediate reply, yet cant give the common courtesy to reply back to any questions sent to them in a timely manner or even let you know what will be taking place when it immediately effects you. When people are taking the time to help a game, in which they ask nothing in return, why not show a little gratitude? - this is a two way street, gratitude its not something you get by being an ass but by showing it, and then again is it a surprise so many don't like counsel?

[Chewett]

And thus, the topic is slowly degrading into another rant against the council. One thing i can guarantee is that they wont listen to a rant. Wonderful.

[awiiya]

Chewett, I'm not sure the sideline comments are helping much either...

I think I may put a vote out with some of the ideas culled from this topic to see what people think of them.

I would love to hear more ideas about how the Council could improve, or what should replace them if the realm has had enough of them (which I just don't think is the case at the moment).

Awi

[Tom Pouce]

better-than-a-council?

bring back Manuel Tanase
advantage :
- vision of an artist
- drive
- experience
- as the haw of being the creator, few will complain
- dont hesitate to change drasktically MD to try solve problem he perceive

disavantage
- like all artist go to new idea (not all finished or complete)

Better than both concil or Manuel Tanase?

Can be a concil

maybe Mur can try change the rule of concentious for magority vote, maybe it would make a concil more dynamic to change

the chalange of a concil is to have the vision of an artist
the drive of an game creator

disavantage: concil of old dedicate players is both a strength, but can be an burden
they need to always get an new eye, but keeping at same time an continuity, and aquire an vision, spontanity,intuitivity, creativity and somewhat randomness of an artist

Edited January 1, 2013 by Tom Pouce

[No one]

Council being know ? Good or bad ? Do we need a new council ?

1. Do we want a split council (one person for each kind of activity) ?
Do you want one person who might just be upset answer your person, or you want a group that ponders the issue to answer your questions ?

2. Do you want answers in 48 hours?

*** to council : I am sorry that I bothered you with my ONE stupid question in 3/4 years. ***

How many emails do you answer each day EVERYDAY ?
If every idiot that consider that they want to ask one "smart" question, considering the pondering of answers ... how many answers / emails / posts do you think that they should exchange ?

You moron, you are not alone, there are tens of emails and issues to be considered and most of them more important.

Are they payed for being a council member? Do they gain anything in game or RL for it ?
I think not, I have not seen any increase in game that is not explainable.

So, you want the answers fast very good. [b]PAY FOR THE ANSWERS[/b].


3. Consider a council made of lets say : Seighart, Fang, Pipstick, Awiya, and you (whom ever you are).
How do you consider they (or others , or just you ) would have solved latest issues ?
If requested, would have you given in to the request ? like Mur to fang with MP7 ? or to Seig with TK ? (do remember that Seig's history).

Would have Pip lost the alliance ? Would have Fang been punished ?
Would have Seighart kept the WP won on his own quest ?

Be grateful that they DO keep an eye on the REAL ISSUE and not on granting meaningless abuse-able future roles.


Anyway, in the end some ppl are receiving what they want.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]Unfortunately, only the upset (mostly punished) ppl get to speak up and they will rule MD because only they voice their demands.[/i]



Now, lets vote: Jail Fang (again) for going to to Mur pretending items for ... what ? to help others or himself ?



bleah, this topics about council disgusts me

[Laphers]

Tom has brought up a couple of interesting points that have sparked my interest in adding to this conversation.

1. To move the game forward requires drive and leadership (dare I say cult of personality) that was originally done by Mur. In his absence players want that same spark but do not find it within a faceless council. This does not mean that the council is ineffective but rather handicapped by the past. In the past Mur met with players in-game and discussed his vision for the future of the game. Now there are players (perhaps old players, perhaps not) that make up a council that people can't meet with and discuss where the game is going. This may be causing some of the (dislike/anxiety/what have you) that players are experiencing with/against the council.

2. Another item that the game requires is follow-through. This is an area that I believe was lacking with Mur but is actually improving with the council. We have coding updates, small issues get completed, recipes are released, bugfixes are becoming more common. I believe that this is the strength of the council: follow-through.

In some ways it is impossible for the council to drive the game forward (at least the way it had been done in the past) as they are charged with maintaining what Mur has built. I believe that they would take significant time to decide to undo one of Mur's decisions and in that way they are handicapped. But they are free to complete projects already started and maintain.

In a perfect world we would have drive, leadership and follow-through and maybe we will in the future but for now I'm not sure that change is needed.

[Nimrodel]

[quote name='No one' timestamp='1357095823' post='129470']
Council being know ? Good or bad ? Do we need a new council ?
2. Do you want answers in 48 hours?

*** to council : I am sorry that I bothered you with my ONE stupid question in 3/4 years. ***

How many emails do you answer each day EVERYDAY ?
If every idiot that consider that they want to ask one "smart" question, considering the pondering of answers ... how many answers / emails / posts do you think that they should exchange ?

You moron, you are not alone, there are tens of emails and issues to be considered and most of them more important.

Are they payed for being a council member? Do they gain anything in game or RL for it ?
I think not, I have not seen any increase in game that is not explainable.

So, you want the answers fast very good. [b]PAY FOR THE ANSWERS[/b].
[/quote]
I didn't suggest people to sort out the problem in 48 hours. I suggested a reply stating that the mail has been read. and things will be looked into. Just that piece gives lot of reassurance to a player. Thats all.

Its a BIG RESPONSIBILITY No one. If one cant live upto it, they might as well give up their position as a council member. If they want to be paid for that job, let them ASK for payment. Why pretend being satisfied by doing honorary service?

I Never said I'm not satisfied with the council. In fact I am probably one of the few people who agreed with the with the presence and working of the current council in the poll. I know the members have problems too. And in my opinion they are working fine considering this is not the only job they have in their lives. Everybody is bound to have flaws. If one takes constructive criticism so badly, losing their temper over a small piece of advice... Hell I just hope you aren't a council member. But thats that. I am not posting anymore. I don't want this thread to turn into a flame war because of me.

P.S. - I am doing LHO work in the game. I was prepared to answer as many questions as possible when I took up my post.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Nimrodel

[Liberty4life]

[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1357100504' post='129472']
If they want to be paid for that job, let them ASK for payment. Why pretend being satisfied by doing honorary service?
[/quote]

i bet that askin for pay is sure way on how to lose council seat, game on financial breakdown cant afford to pay those councilors (assuming they havent been offered payment from day1 which i highly doubt)


[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1357100504' post='129472']
P.S. - I am doing LHO work in the game. I was prepared to answer as many questions as possible when I took up my post.
[/quote]

sorry coucil receives emails 24/7, you receive pms while you are online and you arent only lho in game, council is only one and it consists from more than one person, if you only want notification about your email being read, then lookup wut chew said


[quote name='Chewett']
Sounds like a good idea but have you tried attaching a read receipt to your mails? thats what i do when i want to know if they have read it? Again something we can do lol [/quote]

[Nimrodel]

[quote name='Liberty4life' timestamp='1357108975' post='129474']
[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1357100504' post='129472']
If they want to be paid for that job, let them ASK for payment. Why pretend being satisfied by doing honorary service?
[/quote]

i bet that askin for pay is sure way on how to lose council seat, game on financial breakdown cant afford to pay those councilors (assuming they havent been offered payment from day1 which i highly doubt)


[quote name='Nimrodel' timestamp='1357100504' post='129472']
P.S. - I am doing LHO work in the game. I was prepared to answer as many questions as possible when I took up my post.
[/quote]

sorry coucil receives emails 24/7, you receive pms while you are online and you arent only lho in game, council is only one and it consists from more than one person, if you only want notification about your email being read, then lookup wut chew said


[quote name='Chewett']
Sounds like a good idea but have you tried attaching a read receipt to your mails? thats what i do when i want to know if they have read it? Again something we can do lol [/quote]
[/quote]

I hate to drag this ön but you clearly seem to be missing my point.

So you mean to say they are scared to ask for payment because they can be kicked out of their position and because of that they wont reply to emails unless they want to? Lol. Not really helping the cause are you? Also, Payment can be made in terms of in game coins or credits or smthng like that? Unless they want to be paid outside the game.
Also, since you said that there are more than one council members, why nt divide work in time zones?

Chewy did suggest a way, but not everyone is as technosavvy as him.
I'm not saying I do more work than the council or that i'm doing a better job than them. All i did was SUGGEST something. Every second or third day there is a note in the in game or forum MP requesting council to read their email which stays there for atleast 4-5 days. That Doesn't really help the council's image.

[Kaya]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][cquote]
We've gathered a bunch of ideas and quotes from you and we've tried to answer them. When something was not clear, we've asked you to elaborate. Please find few of the answers and questions below.

1)[i]"Theres no reason for them to continue being protected after they're no longer on the council."[/i]
Please explain your reasoning for requiring this?


2)[i]"Unbiased people"[/i]
As you cannot see the reasoning behind decisions we can understand this statement. If there are particular incidences you would like us to elaborate on we will be happy to, Please keep the list to specific incidences of interest that you feel could help you understand our decision making rather than any situation that might have irked you. We cannot answer all but we will answer some if they are asked.


3)[i]"Having more open forums in which the Council discusses exactly their plans for things and how they make decisions."[/i]
We rely a great deal on the coders. Their schedule is set but is changed when things break (server broke a few times, e-mail had issues a couple of times) or when players break things, when large events are needed and when emergencies come up. As you know, big changes like citizenship was discussed with you by bugs@ through Crash Test Dummy which is something that should have helped.
We make our decisions based on the MD set of rules and the guidelines set by Mur. We discuss options and try to find the pros and cons. When we reach an agreement, that idea is scheduled for implementation based on its priority and severity.
We cannot open up the full discussions due to anonymity and time.


4)[i]"People vote on who gets a items/tags - Perhaps it could tie in with heat or one of the other ways we have of expressing ourselves (items?)."[/i]
'Tags' is something that we listed in projects available to be worked on, but it was not a popular choice and so is not a main focus. One of the things involved in this area would be a more automated tag system.
For some tags and items however, they are given strategically or at a whim based on lots of factors, some of which we have announced. Heat voting is not something that will be used in this area. You as a community already have the vote power to lift someone into a role should they so wish to be, it has always been so, support and action and movement.


5)[i]"A division of council duties and more openness in some of the decision making process might be the best way to go."[/i]
Please explain.


6)[i]"Council forum account would be nice"[/i]
There already exist: they are called Voices on the Forum.


7)[i]"Council needs to be changed somewhat frequently, with the old members in it being revealed when it does change."[/i]
It takes time for a new member to accommodate and gain enough knowledge to start functioning properly.


8)[i]"Now with the council I feel that its some "greater force" that decided, passes judgement, and acts all on its own, often against the people opinions as has been seen several times in the forum."[/i]
This is correct. Whilst we listen and fight amongst ourselves to remain fair and objective as much as we can, this is not a democratically ruled system. We believe Mur has gone over this one a number of times himself over the years.


9)[i]"You put a group of those with the same general views ans you get a one sided council."[/i]
If we had the same views you would get instant replies to e-mails and we could actually be removed and replaced by one of us or we would work a lot faster.


10)[i]"If someone in the Council steps down, how do they decide a new Council? I would like all the inner workings of the Council revealed. None of this secrecy. It just makes me feel like we are not smart enough to handle these decisions if they are being made for us."[/i]
It's not a matter of being smart, it's a matter of privacy for council so that they don't have to be afraid of making decisions against people they know individually and so forth. New members are decided primarily by Mur.


11)[i]"Council should contain an equal proportions of a fossil, a vet, and a new player with basic understanding of coding and mechanics."[/i]
The structure of the council is Mur's decision, we cannot comment on this.


12)[i]"IF we will have a council who will be anonymous in the future why they don´t have trust points like the kings and special players always had?"[/i]
We are the body awarding trust points, hence Mur is the only one who can judge us at that level. You can of course judge us, as you are doing now.


13)[i]"A secret organization or government always leads to conspiracy theories which is always leading to distrust - there must be the biggest change. If MD is THE community based "game" then MD should be in the "hands" of the community."[/i]
Lots of features were done/change/influenced by the community and inspired by the players. Almost all changes are done because players request them directly or indirectly. You might not think we pay attention, but we do, and we have long debates about some of the things you discuss and do in the game and on the forum. We then weigh that against current plans and requirements and MD's structure and meld them into an output. The output isn't always exactly what you asked for, because it can't be, but it is inspired by you.


14)[i]"So I suggest everyone with a proper Age ingame needs to do some kind of job matching his/her time limit he/she has."[/i]
Please come up with a list of proper and decent roles and we'll analyse them. We've outsourced as many job as possible and we have plans to outsource even more but for that to happen we need the coders help. Also please take into account players that are active age-wise, but not active action-wise (you can check the Active Vet List to see what we mean).


15)[i]"The council should not make some decisions which can be made by the Community."[/i]
Please elaborate. What decisions can be made by the community (and should) and which should be made by the Council?


16)[i]"On every single major announcement, open up a thread in the forum for discussions about it."[/i]
That is something you can do by yourselves. Besides, all major changes are usually accompanied by a line along "Please discuss this here" or "please open a forum thread for discussion"


17)[i]"I'd also like to see more members of the council with specialized roles."[/i]
What specialised roles do you think would help us? Do you feel comfortable knowing just one person will make a decision in a given area? Would you like us to try this for a while to see what happens?

[/cquote][/size][/font]

Edited January 2, 2013 by samon

[Liberty4life]

[quote]
So you mean to say they are scared to ask for payment because they can be kicked out of their position and because of that they wont reply to emails unless they want to?

[/quote]

no i didnt made connection with pay and reply to emails, you did

and this is why they dont reply instantly, but they do read them in 24h time frame

[quote]
COUNCIL:
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4]9)[i]"You put a group of those with the same general views ans you get a one sided council."[/i][/size][/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4]If we had the same views you would get instant replies to e-mails and we could actually be removed and replaced by one of us or we would work a lot faster.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

[quote]Chewy did suggest a way, but not everyone is as technosavvy as him.[/quote]

its not nothin super techy to add read recipient but kk

read recipient is definately feature you want, or maybe if you really dont want to learn how to put it, then try askin for md-mail automatic notification mail for when council opens your mail, maybe they implement it >_>

[quote]Every second or third day there is a note in the in game or forum MP requesting council to read their email which stays there for atleast 4-5 days.[/quote]

no, they all know council has read their mail, they just want REAL reply urgently fast

[Azull]

[quote]5)[i]"A division of council duties and more openness in some of the decision making process might be the best way to go."[/i]
Please explain.[/quote]

I deliberately refrained from making “more detailed” suggestions because I lack a great deal of information necessary to do so.

Something does come to mind. Let’s call it the Face of the Council. While I understand and agree with the need to keep the identity of (most) council members secret, there clearly seems a public desire for the council to be less anonymous. To have a face as it were.
One of your members could be known to the community, be an “in game” representative for instance. (there may be other options as well)
I am well aware of the risks and problems involved with this and finding someone willing and actually capable of fulfilling this role the right way may be very difficult.
Depending on your inner structure and decision making process, certain tasks could be delegated to this person.
(this is not all I might say on this subject, but it will have to suffice for now)

As to “more openness in the decision making process”.
As I said, I lack information to make a lot of informed suggestions. However, I think a council agenda update every two or three weeks or so, might go a long way in keeping the community informed about what things you are discussing and working on. No details, just the agenda. Obviously, (most?) decisions you make are announced. This seems to work fine as it is.

I have a few other ideas that may enhance transparency without endangering council privacy and effectiveness. I will ponder on them a bit more and if I still think they make sense after that, I will post them.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Azull

[DARK DEMON]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][quote]15)[i]"The council should not make some decisions which can be made by the Community."[/i]
Please elaborate. What decisions can be made by the community (and should) and which should be made by the Council?[/size][/font][/quote]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]What I meant by this was that there should be more Community voting, like there was in choosing the TK leader. In that Community voting, there should be no say from the Council. However, the Council members who are players may use their forum accounts to vote. The final decision should be taken on behalf of the votes made by the Community. There should be no Council power to change the outcome, like it was done when choosing TK leader. It was what the Community wanted, but you still changed it. I'm not saying that it was power abuse, but why did we all vote and give long explanations in the first place when Council was going to make it's own decision?[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]These matters are the ones which should be in the hands of the Community. Council can decide punishments given to players who do wrong, but the Community should know of the "crime" beforehand and they should decide whether one has done wrong enough or not. The "criminal" should have a chance to speak aloud in the forum, like Fang did, but he was jailed before that. When the real thing was revealed, the punishment was lifted right? That should have never happened at all. Let the Community decide whether one should be punished, let the criminal defend himself, then the Council can act [b]on behalf of what the Community wants, not what they want.[/b][/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I've just taken a few recent examples, but I think the message has been conveyed across.[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]I do not agree with Council being disbanded nor it's members being revealed. That would only create more conflict. But for us, the Community, please do not do what we may not appreciate.[/color][/font]

Edited January 3, 2013 by DARK DEMON

[Burns]

MD is not a democracy. The important things can't be decided by this popularity contest that we call 'poll' because there are too little people in total to equal out the votes casted on personal favoritism. That's why we don't get asked on really important things like punishments or promotions. If you have a problem with a decision made, you can voice your concerns afterwards, that's all fair, but don't expect that you'll be asked before. Instead be happy that you get a heads up most of the time now, Mur used to do such stuff in all secrecy and surprise us with major game play changes every now and then.

[DARK DEMON]

[font=comic sans ms,cursive][color=#006400]Of course, I never said I'm not happy with the Council. Surprising decisions are good, but not if they surprise us negatively... that's all I'm saying.[/color][/font]

[VertuHonagan]

I do not mind the council nor the jobs that they do. That is not why I disapprove of the council. The problem I have with the council is the way they handle certain situations. In light of recent events, I think they could use a bit more organization and thought behind their decisions before making a decision. Also, I feel that if they make a decision they need to stand behind it and not let people back them out of a decision that they have made.

Secondly, I think it would be nice to see a little less transparency into decision making when it comes to the game itself. I have seen polls before, where they have asked the community what they feel should be worked on next, and I think it would be nice to have more of those. Maybe even open up a topic on it and ask players to post their thoughts and see why they think a certain aspect should be worked on next.

Edited January 3, 2013 by VertuHonagan

[Menhir]

[quote name='samon' timestamp='1357136194' post='129490']
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][cquote]

12)[i]"IF we will have a council who will be anonymous in the future why they don´t have trust points like the kings and special players always had?"[/i]
We are the body awarding trust points, hence Mur is the only one who can judge us at that level. You can of course judge us, as you are doing now.

[/cquote][/size][/font]
[/quote]

This option was an idea from me how the playerbase would have a little bit more power in their voice. Now after some days of thinking about it I came to the conclusion that it would be the same as you the council would be known to us. I have to admit that I see the reason why you are anonymous, you would be savaged by some of "our egos" and we have enough of this in the forum already.

Some of us still compare the situation when Mur was active and I think that´s the problem. Mur was (is) the creator (god) of MD and needed to be seen in exactly this light. You as the council are different so we need to change our view rather than trying to get the past back, when Mur was in your position.

But there is one question I have. Nobody was asking what you think about the whole situation.

Is there something you would like to see changing concerning the communication between you (the council) and the playerbase?