Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) A fugitive! Look out!!! An exchange with council: [cquote] Hello Phantom Orchid, Your release date is based on the period of time you are expected to stay in jail, This therefore means since you have been escaping the release date is continually pushed back. The expected jail sentence was a month but since you escaped multiple times during that we still consider your jail term unfinished. Since it is well known that escaping jail risks more punishment then at the moment the jail sentence is still a month of continuous jail time.[/cquote] Well known? I was not aware of this, and I have been an active player for 4+ years (I first stepped into the realm 1546 days ago). Escaping jail risks more punishment? You seem to be alluding to something above and beyond the established fugitive system. This is entirely unclear to me. [cquote] Mur's plans for you, in regards to porting you out knowing that you will be a fugitive, but that's part of the decision he has taken for the role and he accepts that you will be unable to complete your jail sentence if you wish to follow this route, so for the time being, having chosen the path with Mur, you shall remain a fugitive. If your circumstances change and we shall keep an eye on the time you spend in jail.[/cquote] "Having chosen the path with Mur you shall remain a fugitive." I did not _choose_ for Mur to port me out periodically, and I have no idea why he does this. I had no choice in the matter, and would have stayed in jail and been done with the sentence (of a length I was unaware of until you replied to my message) and been done with it twice over by now. And I have even been back to jail a dozen times trying to serve my sentence like a good prisoner. Despite the belligerent suppositions of dst/no one, I was not pissing on, around, or even near anyone (or everyone). Sorry, but water sports just ain't my thing. [cquote] However we will consider reducing your jail time if you explain how you escaped jail. We are interested to see what methods you used.[/cquote] Jail is not new for me. I helped test the toxicodendrite creature there. When I was there before, I could escape via two different methods. Now, neither method works anymore, and I know of absolutely no way to escape (neither does anyone I have asked about it) due to new changes. So if I explain, which you already know - and for the sake of appeasing your curiosity - that Mur teleports me out periodically for reasons unknown, you will consider reducing my jail time? This logic is absolutely astounding. I did not choose to become a fugitive... I'm just playing the cards dealt to me. Although I am beginning to question the integrity of the dealer. Edited June 11, 2013 by Phantom Orchid Amoran Kalamanira Kol and dst 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Well known? I was not aware of this, and I have been an active player for 4+ years. Escaping jail risks more punishment? You seem to be alluding to something above and beyond the established fugitive system. This is entirely unclear to me. Ann. 1519 - [2010-06-08 11:56:01 - Stage 10] Excommunication period and asylum An unforeseen aspect of the king jailing ability was the jail time. I hereby put the default jail time for being jailed by your king to a period of two weeks. In special cases kings may negotiate this time with me , but only for good reasons on rare occasions. If someone gets out of jail sooner than he should (escapes) , his penalty will be increased to a lot more and if he does it again he received a permanent IP ban. Careful how a small penalty can turn into a much bigger one, jail is jail, not a tourist attraction. This is not the first time you "miss" things even if you're a 4+ years player (btw 1307 active day doesn't mean 4+ years). Check this out: Ann. 2509 - [2013-03-09 22:21:10 - Stage 11] A number of key related issues where fixed for Oak Tower, LR Back Entrance and Beserkers Charge. If you previously were refunded the WP you will now need to buy it again to continue using the access. If you feel you have lost a key wrongly contact bugs@magicduel.com stating why you got the key freely. AmberRune 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Quote Ann. 1519 - [2010-06-08 11:56:01 - Stage 10] Excommunication period and asylum An unforeseen aspect of the king jailing ability was the jail time. I hereby put the default jail time for being jailed by your king to a period of two weeks. In special cases kings may negotiate this time with me , but only for good reasons on rare occasions. If someone gets out of jail sooner than he should (escapes) , his penalty will be increased to a lot more and if he does it again he received a permanent IP ban. Careful how a small penalty can turn into a much bigger one, jail is jail, not a tourist attraction. So you are saying that since Mur ported me out, my penalty should be increased? And if that happens twice I should get an IP ban? What are your thoughts about what should happen given that this has happened a dozen or so times? I would really like to understand what you are trying to say. Edited June 11, 2013 by Phantom Orchid dst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maebius Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 since Mur ported me out, The way I see it, if Mur does anything, it's not quite fair, or quite by the rules. This is NOT to mean against the rules. The rules still apply, if we try. It's a game, and he's the one playing it with us. :) In regards to the quoted announcement "escapes" implies willing exit from the jail, or at least acceptance of the fact one is now "outside". Going back in, would show good faith effort to completing the sentence. But that's my interpretation. Grido has the keys, not me. Zyrxae 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubaris Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I think that announcement was speaking specifically for the players imprisoned by a monarch. Otherwise, isn't it in contradiction with the fugitive feature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I think that announcement was speaking specifically for the players imprisoned by a monarch. Otherwise, isn't it in contradiction with the fugitive feature? That's my understanding of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I think that announcement was speaking specifically for the players imprisoned by a monarch. Otherwise, isn't it in contradiction with the fugitive feature? Have you seen anywhere stated that fugitive feature invalidate this announcement? I, personally, would not bet my money on something I am not sure of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I think that announcement was speaking specifically for the players imprisoned by a monarch. Otherwise, isn't it in contradiction with the fugitive feature? Ann. 1967 - [2011-08-09 06:30:00 - Stage 10] Clearing some things about Jail Time and releases The only right way to get out of jail is by being released by those that have this ability. When someone is sent to jail, the sentence time refers to a MINIMUM TIME that person will stay there. After that period, that person can be released from jail only by those with the right ability to do that, WHEN and IF they wish so. the unban ability is a personal ability and as such is used at the owners discretion. However there are other ways that can be used at your own risk, to get out of jail when time is up, or if you dare sooner, otherwise what would be the point of having fugitives features and such things :). Fugitives will obviously find it a lot harder to ever clear their name, integrate back, receive public roles, etc, so don't joke about choosing that path, even if a "criminal path" is now technically supported by the interface. Seems to me that fugitive status goes very well with Ann 1519, when they even clarified that fugitive role and tools are meant for just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 So, permanent IP ban x12 for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubaris Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 The tone of the Ann 1519 seems to be "don't you dare escape the jail, Mur will perma ban" (shhh, maybe cause Ann 1519 has a direct relation with me :D), while the fugitive one is much more calmer and more like "there are many paths, just be careful and sure of your decision". Ann 1519 has no IFs, like "if a fugitive gets caught", the whole tone is "it will be so", which would make the fugitive feature pointless. Chewie made a nice post about jail relatively recent. It is much more in that calm tone, rather than the one of Ann 1519. Maybe we should discuss the role of jail here. dst and Phantom Orchid 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 the whole fugitive feature is more recent than the threat in Ann 1519. At the time of 1519, there was nothing that punished you for leaving jail, so there was a need for rules against it. With fugitives implemented, you're permanently on the run and potentially unable to take part in any game events, or you go to jail and sit it out. I think that the ban part of Ann 1519 was rendered pointless with the introduction of fugitives. It's just, like, a back up plan, in case somebody figures a way to escape jail and not be a fugitive either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted June 11, 2013 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 It would make sense escaping would increase your jailtime, since you do not act out your sentence, but are actively escaping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) And what about those who attempt to "sit it out" but are made fugitives against their will? My release date is apparently being pushed back over and over because of this, because, according to counsel I "escaped multiple times." It would make sense escaping would increase your jailtime, since you do not act out your sentence, but are actively escaping it. What makes sense is a matter of opinion. What do the rules say? Or are you implying that people who break unwritten rules that make sense to some people should go punished? Edited June 11, 2013 by Phantom Orchid dst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted June 11, 2013 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 And what about those who attempt to "sit it out" but are made fugitives against their will? My release date is apparently being pushed back over and over because of this, because, according to counsel I "escaped multiple times." What makes sense is a matter of opinion. What do the rules say? Or are you implying that people who break unwritten rules that make sense to some people should go punished? Your beef is with Mur, i would talk to him about your situation. See what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Your beef is with Mur, i would talk to him about your situation. See what he says. I have no beef with Mur. I was asking these questions because I value your opinion and would like to understand the rationale behind your logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted June 11, 2013 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 I have spoken with Mur for you since you seem unable to do so, He stated he shall be making an announcement ----------------------- We are discussing the issue currently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted June 11, 2013 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 --------------------------- From Murry ---------------------------- [2013-06-11 21:27:42 - Stage 12] Phantom Orchid Jailed Phantom has been re-jailed for her crimes and officially sentenced to one further month after discussing with Mur. Any security breach and the warden will lose his head... or worse. The sentence is effective immediately. As a reminder, if you escape jail you risk additional jailtime as announced previously. Escaping could be used to try and prove innocence, but can also agravate your situation. dst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Orchid Posted June 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 So long then, MD, it's been good to know you! xoxoxo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_doctor Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Another one bites the dust... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted June 11, 2013 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 am i missing something here? Phantom you were not punished in addition to anything due to escaping. The announcement states clearly: "As a reminder, if you escape jail you risk additional jailtime as announced previously. Escaping could be used to try and prove innocence, but can also agravate your situation." Maybe its not well formulated but it refers to future not past. You jail time was not decided by council due to me interfering with it, i discussed with council and determined a period of one month of jail time is appropriate for the discussed incident. THERE IS NO PUNISHMENT FOR YOU ESCAPING THE JAIL VIA ME PORTING YOU OUT. If you escaped other ways, that is something for someone else to investigate, in any case that is not the topic here. There is a difference between being PUNISHED in addition for escaping, and a jail time being delayed to be determined due to you not being in the actual prison. This must be cleared out because it sounds as a big missunderstanding. Maybe even i understood it wrong, but how it should be is that you get one month starting now of real jail...and this is NOT an additional penalty to anything, this is the sentence. Ackshan Bemunah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fang Archbane Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Da dun dun dun dun. And another one bites the dust. On a serious not so Fangy note, what happens happens. As long as you're not leaving on your own PoE, they can't do anything too mad, like IP banning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted June 11, 2013 Root Admin Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Da dun dun dun dun. And another one bites the dust. On a serious not so Fangy note, what happens happens. As long as you're not leaving on your own PoE, they can't do anything too mad, like IP banning. IP ban will not be performed for escaping jail. That part of the announcement is old and now incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrthilian Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 so drama is over?? md can go back to being what it once was? Ackshan Bemunah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoran Kalamanira Kol Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Yrthilian, MD likely cannot ever be what it once was, but continues to evolve. Poe, I hope you truly do not leave, but if you do I am certain that many would understand. You will certainly be missed by me. dst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrthilian Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 never like it originally was agreed but some of us still hold to the old days none the less ;-) Ackshan Bemunah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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