cool down for spells

[Chewett]

If people seriously believe that there is no wrong way to use power, then I totally agree with Ailith, there's something TERRIBLY wrong.

 

I repeat, you all are making me use send to ToA the wrong way, don't complain when it actually happens. I've not been told a "no" by anybody so far, in fact I'm seeing repeatedly that spells can be used any way the owner likes, so I'm kind of certain that its indeed allowed; I won't take the blame.

 

Mur has said that, a number of times, Doesnt mean im not going to make your life or anyone elses hell if you dare to port any new players to ToA. Thats a promise.

FYI, If anyone sees anyone doing such a douchy thing, tell me and I will give you a gold coin and will place them on my blacklist.

[DARK DEMON]

 

Mur has said that, a number of times, Doesnt mean im not going to make your life or anyone elses hell if you dare to port any new players to ToA. Thats a promise.

FYI, If anyone sees anyone doing such a douchy thing, tell me and I will give you a gold coin and will place them on my blacklist.

 

Great, now go make dst's life hell for harming the community and misusing power too, even if a not-so-similar way.

Edited November 5, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Guest]

@Eara, I have many faults. I am quite happy to admit to them, as I hope others are too. I apologise if my disagreement with your point caused you offence.

 

My points were not about taking care with technical aspects of quests but on the appropriacy of having to get a jump link or some such because someone wants to pointlessly mess with a gathering.

 

However, there are aspects of what has happened that I still disagree with. On all sides.

 

I understand dst's role very well. I was in the realm when it was officially recognised and I respect her for it, I hope she still knows that. But I'm sure she won't respect me if I behave like the sun shines out of her behind even if I think something she did was wrong.

 

There are some things that have been said last night and today that I feel are very wrong, but I do not wish to continue with this. I do not believe this discussion will lead anywhere except a closed thread.

 

@DD you already had a complaint about you harrassing with your ToA spell, if you do anything more - especially to new players - even to prove a point, I will use one of my decision papers.

 

@No one I agree with the "I earned it, I can do what I want" sentiment. But there are limits. If you don't agree then I think we should leave it there.

[Chewett]

@DD you already had a complaint about you harrassing with your ToA spell, if you do anything more - especially to new players - even to prove a point, I will use one of my decision papers.

 

Make that two, He did it to me and Haedrin. Unlike H I can get away much easier.

[DARK DEMON]

Make that two, He did it to me and Haedrin. Unlike H I can get away much easier.

 

If I recall correctly, you were the one that ported us there, and then I brought you back when you left cause we were talking

[Miq]

Ahem....

 

There have been multiple iterations of courts and judges trough times. Why are those always ignored? I mean why go to the parliament, the king or god for that matter when you have not tried the common court? If the court fails(for you) you can start a revolt/petition to change some laws but till then you are just trying to find a simple way to have what you want(all of you).

 

You can petition to have a law made or changed.

You can turn to courts to have a law enforced.

All else is arbitrary.

 

Miq

Edited November 5, 2014 by Miq

[powle]

The problem with freedom is that you can't give absolute freedom regarding everything to everyone. The reason for this is that sooner or later the freedoms of 2 (or more) people will clash.
example:
player A wants to explore the east (and he is free to so)
player B wants to teleport player A to GoE (and he is free to do so)
player C wants to teleport player A to GoC (and he is free to do so)

it is impossible for all 3 of them to get what they want. At "best" (best as in 2 win 1 lose) you could have player B and C both cast their spells but the first one casting would basically waste his spell because player A would be at GoE (or GoC depending which player cast first) only for the short time before the other one casts his spell aswell. So player A clearly has his freedom taken away by the other 2 players and it is debatable if B and C really both got their freedom or it was actually just one of them who is happy in the end.
Real life is full dilemas like this through time there were different solutions - one example is a very strict hierarchy where you get chushed by those above you and you stomp those beneath you (it works but it's hardly the best solution) another possibility is to make a list of basic human rights and say you're free to do anything you want except things that would take away someone else's basic human rights (i like this one the most in RL but in MD we would have to set some kind of borders for those basic rights because if you don't allow any action performed on other players it gets a little boring and if you allow too much people will harrass one another) there are other possibilities of course but i'll leave it at that for the time being.

[Rophs]

Teleport Papercabin and Send to GoE both greatly increase in value as part of the cooldown change. They require seven ap to move between them making them essentially "equivalent" as far as teleporting spells go. It may be beneficial to give both of those spells a higher cooldown than a tp spell such as send to eternal toiler or lockinchaos which brings you to a much more remote location.

[lashtal]

People with powerful spells should use them responsibly. 

 

Finally, this is THE point. Power comes with responsibilities.

 

 

There is a greater good here, greater than dst, Eon, DD, Mur or anybody involved in this: MD as a realm.

 

While a villain may be extremely annoying, sometimes he/she forces reaction and activity, for the realm's own good.

(Tension is necessary to existence)

 

If, on the other hand, such activities bring frustration to those who SPEND THEIR OWN TIME organizing quests, no matter how good you think the quests are, this is simply not doing a good service to MD. 

If one's actions make others players leave, again, it's not a good service to MD.

 

There's a thin line between being a villain and being a troll, recognizing it is part of what I label "intelligence".

[dst]

 

I don't think people know this that I was explicitly told that I was on my own when making these quests, because the more help I got, the less it would be a thing of my own, hence it was discouraged to ask for such help.

 

Yes, you could say it was mostly a test for me to see how I could manage quest-making for the Labyrinth on my own. And now Council agrees that there indeed need to be rules as to where to draw the line on "disrupting quests".

 

This is plain BS. I have seen so many announcements made by Chewett and Council and even Mur encouraging people to create quests, host events that I find that VERY hard to believe. Chewett also offers help if the quest doesn't involve heavy coding. Last ANN was for Halloween and this time he even said and I quote:

 

All those preparing Halloween events please PM me the details and if you want any wookie magic help

 

So I really wonder what exactly you were told because to me it seems you either asked something that would require heavy coding or something way too powerful (I wonder if you asked for the jump link spell and you were refused). But heh...you'll not "post 50 e-mails". Maybe the Council will be so kind and enlighten us, the mortals.

 

Council!!! Hear me out! Make some light in this mess!

 

Finally, this is THE point. Power comes with responsibilities.

 

 

There is a greater good here, greater than dst, Eon, DD, Mur or anybody involved in this: MD as a realm.

 

While a villain may be extremely annoying, sometimes he/she forces reaction and activity, for the realm's own good.

(Tension is necessary to existence)

 

If, on the other hand, such activities bring frustration to those who SPEND THEIR OWN TIME organizing quests, no matter how good you think the quests are, this is simply not doing a good service to MD. 

If one's actions make others players leave, again, it's not a good service to MD.

 

There's a thin line between being a villain and being a troll, recognizing it is part of what I label "intelligence".

Says the bitter guy who killed concussion because he was giving TS(es) to anyone would want one and the guy who killed Akasha TWICE in an attempt to get a response from her while I told him from the first time he'll not get one. That's VERY intelligent and not troll like.

[Chewett]

 

This is plain BS. I have seen so many announcements made by Chewett and Council and even Mur encouraging people to create quests, host events that I find that VERY hard to believe. Chewett also offers help if the quest doesn't involve heavy coding. Last ANN was for Halloween and this time he even said and I quote:

 

So I really wonder what exactly you were told because to me it seems you either asked something that would require heavy coding or something way too powerful (I wonder if you asked for the jump link spell and you were refused). But heh...you'll not "post 50 e-mails". Maybe the Council will be so kind and enlighten us, the mortals.

 

He asked council for help, The help he needed required coding, council would provide if it I would, but since I am not allowed to speak to DD (something DD has told me) I said I could not help.

DD means Mur didnt want to help him, he openly asked for help from others.

[Muratus del Mur]

(personal) spells can be used as you think fit
when i said that i had in mind that if someone goes crazy and uses them just to harm others randomly and disrupt creative activities, others, with other powers, will take action against it, under the same rule that they can use their spells as they think fit. If for some reason, all people with power in md would decide to team-up and do damaging things just for their fun, then md can rely on a community and its doomed to collapse (i don't mind that, i am just mentioning it here so you know i know this is what my rule implies)

This gives you chew the right to do as you wish against others that do as they wish.

apparently, from all the people that do as they wish with the powers they have, i am the only one that can't..simply because whatever i do will harm either one or the other side.

leaving diplomacy aside..i might be the worst manager ever, but my intuition still surpasses yours combined. My biggest problem is that i am observing things through other peoples interpretations..true..for now i can't change that...but even so..lets get back to the beginning of this incident. Please try to understand how i saw this and correct me if i am wrong in what i did that followed.

A player, could have been anyone, asked me for citizenship of a deserted land. I could have said "no go away", or provoke him to prove he deserves it. I put in balance if i was actually willing to give such a citizenship to anyone at all, answer is yes, because lab is a crime scene for others, and some sort of activity needed to be brought there eventually, maybe a leadership at some point..who knows.
what i noticed afterwards was that nobody wanted to compete in receiving this citizenship, ..instead, a wave of hate flooded everything as to WHY dd should get it. As if any of you has something to lose from this.
It happens that from (only from) my point of view, dd managed to deserve the citizenship by discovering something nobody else noticed about the lab (info is secret but chew and council know what i am talking about). I gave much more important stuff based on that reason alone in past times.
Then because his antisocial behaviour he managed to anger people that have something to say in all this, ..so fine..i didn't give him the citizenship. Now i was thinking....is the labyrinth in any way connected to "being sociable and nice to others" kind of thing? NO. Labyrinth is the sort of land that promotes secluded characters, not socially accepted ones.

Then, i see this quest incident, that in my own opinion was a proof of pure malice, no purpose, just two powerful people doing same shit they always did. They have the right to do so, its why there is no room for any sort of punishment...but i could not pretend i was not angry on what happend. Why i was angry? because this time, their action where against a group of people, just to harm one, that in their opinion was getting a "favor". I think none of the land leaders put so much pressure on any of their citizens in order to give them citizenship...but maybe i am wrong. What made me upset was that more people where harmed in this quest disrupting, just for the purpose of hitting dd.

Comming from people of great power, this petty action to disrupt a quest was, in my view, giving a bad example. As you can see, we are talking already about how much damage we can do with the spells, not how many creative things we could do with them.

It is also a lack of respect that made me react. The fact that everybody (and i am generalizing here to make a point) seems to be against what i do, is a problem for me. Its not only affecting me on a personal level, but it is hurting md as a whole because i am forced to find alternate ways to actually do something in here. The spell cooldown was the most elegant solution i could find...but as part of the solution was the fact that i announced it. I was hoping that if i am seen as taking any sort of action, would be better than not reacting at all.

So, i ran out of options, and i still not see what is wrong with what i did and why all this fuss. Thinking in absolute terms, if i remove from this puzzle the factors that 'complain', md as a whole would benefit a lot more...and you wonder why i prefer to be a dictator sometimes.

[Curiose]

Preface: I don't really care to comment on all the other stuff.  I mainly just have a question (or two) I wish to ask DD specifically. I thought about writing a separate topic on this, but felt it would be too generalized and therefor, needed to be direct.

 

 

DD...

You state you wanted to help MD grow as a whole, however, I feel that your actions were laced entirely of self purpose. Potentially of a vendetta against Dst, and perhaps even Eon. Do you have any idea of what your actions can, and have done? Do you even understand the concept of accountability? Not that of others, but yourself?

In a lot of commentary I see that many have tried to help you, before, and after. Yet you brush them off.  And when you brush them off you point the finger at them and say that they were at fault. 

 

Have you bothered considering that maybe... You, were the one at fault? I see a lot of "but they did.... But they said.... but they want...." A lot of "theys". Not a lot of "I's".

You can point the finger at Dst or Eon, but you can also point the finger at Chewett and Mur and Council, too. You can point the finger at everyone who has spoken to you, given you support, help, or ideas. But at the end of it all, you are the one with the burden to bear. And with that burden, you carry the poison of your lack of accountability for your actions. If you are to even succeed, I suggest that you take a long hard look at your actions and yourself and fix what needs to be fixed before you even consider moving forward with your role.  Not only that, but I feel you also need to apologize to the people you have brushed off for even trying to help you. Take responsibility and part of the blame. And maybe you might have better working relationships.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Curiose

[DARK DEMON]

Honestly the thing that hurts most is that people were telling me to do stuff to get citizenship, WHILE I was doing stuff to get citizenship, but they thought I was just begging/asking without doing anything.

 

I have faults, and one of them is the biggest "crime" in MD, and I'm suffering from it and trying to move on. But no one wants me to. You want me to remain the same: the guy you demand change from but never let him do so.

 

 

Edit: I posted this right after Curi posted hers, didn't get a chance to read. But I'm busy right now and will edit or make a new reply later.

Edited November 6, 2014 by DARK DEMON

[Eon]

Then, i see this quest incident, that in my own opinion was a proof of pure malice, no purpose, just two powerful people doing same shit they always did. They have the right to do so, its why there is no room for any sort of punishment...but i could not pretend i was not angry on what happend. Why i was angry? because this time, their action where against a group of people, just to harm one, that in their opinion was getting a "favor". I think none of the land leaders put so much pressure on any of their citizens in order to give them citizenship...but maybe i am wrong. What made me upset was that more people where harmed in this quest disrupting, just for the purpose of hitting dd.

 

Take a good look at the many links I have on the bottom of this page: http://magicduel.com/players/Eon

 

I mess with pretty much anyone and everyone, period. Don't try to make it out like I screwed with this quest because DD made it, the countless complaints against me from the past show otherwise.  Recently I saw Lashtal having a lecture at the Howling gates, I silvertounged people. When people meet, I will be there. The only time I don't screw with something is when I'm actually interested in competing in it, or someone I respect (not many of those) asks me not to mess with the thing.

 

You have been too disconnected from MD to know what is going on, you really shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

[dst]

Powerful players? With what? 3 send to goe casts (Eon's) and 1 sendtodeathwhisper (mine)?

THAT was enough to ruin a quest? OMG! I am super powerful in this case!

 

I HATE and I have always hated people that don't do their job/tasks/etc right. DD is one of them. He quickly put up a stupid quest just so he'd show activity for the Lab citizenship as he was told to. Badly deigned and badly implemented. He claims he did it "for the community". BS! He did it for himself. THAT made me act. And I didn't need too much since well..read the above.

[Curiose]

I am going to clarify on a point that I think needs clarifying on my post above.

Regarding DD's actions being laced entirely of self purpose:

He has said before, and many times, that this was an attempt at aiding the community at large.  However, I find that is countered by his "need to report" the actions of Dst and Eon.  I find that to be the opposite of helping the community, and again, only fuels personal vendetta and otherwise pursues to continue the squabbling between the two. I personally feel that if you want to help something, you do so with pure intentions of helping without ulterior motives. Positivity is a moving force, stuff toxicity into it, and it just becomes a shamble.

 

If you want to help the community, you set your quarrels aside. You work together. You make something of what you have despite what you don't. I don't believe DD did this, I also don't believe he had the right intentions in place when he went to the council about this. Never the less, segwaying council and going directly to Mur.  That's a slap to the face, IMO.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Curiose

[Kyphis the Bard]

To get back onto the topic discussion of the Cooldown for Teleport spells, rather than the flame war this has largely become:

 

Disclaimer - I do not like the idea of a change to teleport spells, and I do not support the idea I am about to present. I do recognize the need that something needs to change - I would just prefer this be a social shift rather than a mechanical shift.

 

Idea: When a player casts a teleport spell with a group array (that is to say, a spell that Has targeted multiple players, not simply one that Can target multiple players), the caster be teleported to the target location as well and movelocked and attack locked for 2(X) minutes, where X is the number of players teleported including themselves. If a target defeats the caster with fight cause [resistteleport], they are returned to their original location with AP reduced to 0 (to prevent intentional whiplash teleportation abuse).

 

Feedback: I am aware that Eon is a powerful player, however it has been a long time since he has been the most powerful. This suggestion is intended as a general solution, not as a specific counter to Eon - I think such a reactionary action is completely incorrect and will typically not be part of a discussion on such a topic. However, for the sake of completionism, I will offer the following.

Idea Extension: A non-target player may attack the caster with fight cause [resistteleport-"playername"] to exact the same effect as if the target player had performed the attack. If the input playername was not a target of a teleport spell by the caster, or is not currently in the same location as the combatants, then the fight cause has no effect.

 

Feedback: This extension has an additional possibility - preventing players who wish to be teleported from having such occur when teleported as part of a group. This is potentially useful for land defense, offensive actions, and wars; as well as general social sabotage.

[Ungod]

I think teleporting the caster together with the group is an interesting idea. It is interesting even if you want to move a group of people w/o bad intentions :)

[Rophs]

The teleport victims would have to be able to attack cross mp, in the case of kyphis shield or no creats available then it defaults to loss for whoever has no crits

[Kyphis the Bard]

The teleport victims would have to be able to attack cross mp, in the case of kyphis shield or no creats available then it defaults to loss for whoever has no crits

Fair points, and I'd agree with a singular change - when fighting across MP levels, no stats are changed (temporary or permanent, personal or creature). This to prevent useing such a side effect for training purposes. That said, it shouldn't require cross MP level combat, as you can have someone else fight for you. Additionally, the goal is not to make such spells useless, just moderately less crippling.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Kyphis the Bard

[Rophs]

This would give otherarmy a big power-level boost, you could cast it and then have otherarmy use the fight cause. I've tested this with land cleansers and was able to bump a player one scene by attacking as Rophs and then attacking while under the effects of otherarmy.

 

edit: changed "power" to "power-level" in the first line to prevent potential misinterpretations

edit: I assume the above would also be true for guardianarmy, but I have not yet tested such.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Rophs

[Muratus del Mur]

interesting ideas ..

teleporting caster with target is good one. Using cause fights is even better, i am not sure how but i think this could make things very interesting. Chew will implement any change regarding this so he should be readin this not just me. I need to remind you that the bigger purpose is to make it easier for groups to resist such spells better, one way or an other, if they cooperate, not to abolish teleport spells. Teleport spells are important for two reasons..police sort of reason when sweeping labyrinth and such and quest sort of reasons where people need to be taken places. The question is how you differentiate what is a legit gathering and what gathering needs to be destroyed.

 

I think that if enough group effort is put into something, it should resist outside influences better.

 

Maybe a way for a group to be identified as a group and have a challenge score to match hostile spell powers against them? Wild thought, chew what do you say about this as a general concept?

[Burns]

Before you go on, consider this:

Whenever i would want to teleport somebody, all i need to do is log off after casting to stop your resistance measures. If at all, you'd need to make teleport a sort of channel ability, where everyone goes into limbo until the spell is through, and it fails if the guy casting is 'interrupted' while at it. Which obviously defeats the point of teleport as a 'swift' method of moving, because if i (as target) know that i'll be moved in an undesireable manner, maybe while i run away from someone for whatever reason, i'll be the one logging off to avoid the consequences, and start running again in 2 hours.

[Rophs]

Or if you cast otherarmy and they have to fight Summoned Army instead of you for the duration of retaliation period you eliminate any sort of counterplay, or they can have their friend cast guardianarmy on them and deflect the attack, or mirrorritual on themselves. The existence of an antimagic spell keeps on more and more necessary and useful.