question the obvious - round earth or not?

[Muratus del Mur]

disclaimer:

before going wild and into denial mode, keep in mind that all i am asking is for proof that the earth is round, not that it is flat .. if it is ..why not know how you know it is, right?

 

When i was little i had this "mad scientist" old inventor living in the same building, that told me once, that the earth is FLAT..and he was very convinced and convincing about it.... but i was a little kid and over the years i ignored it and forgot it.
Today i wanted to find a single proof that the earth is round... sometimes i like to question "the obvious" and know such "basic" things.

 

...but guess what...

 

instead of finding some solid proof that the earth is a globe, i found lots and lots of info about how it is not..
ok...i kept digging... to find an actual proof that the earth is "round" ..because most "documentaries" about a flat earth that i stumbled upon where mixed with incomplete ideas and made by visibly disturbed individuals....so i wanted to find my own proof...

there is a LOT to say about the subject, much more than i expected to be .. first i want to say that there is NO ACTUAL IMAGE OF THE EARTH FROM SPACE. All images present editing and even nasa admits its like that because they generated the image from multiple satelites...you can see no stars around the earth in such images btw. Someone please give me a solid undeniable evidence that the earth is round. ...and no ...a "science" book does not represent valid evidence.

 

----------

some notes:

 

- the rising of the sun and moon can be _perfectly_ explained on a flat surface

- old maps..actually not that old... are showing the earth as flat with the north in the center, the UN logo and military earth maps are still the same

- over 20 generations people used the globe earth model based on theory and absolutely no evidence

- then nasa presented the famous picture of the earth from space, that turns out to be computer generated afterall, and all pictures since then

- commercial routes between very close points in the southern 'hemisphere' look to be incredible long on a globe model, but a direct route on the flat map they use for navigating.

- acurved horizon line is curved because of optical properties of the observer, like your eyes, or photo lens. You can see a different curvature depending on the camera for example

 

only thing i found so far as evidence for a round earth is this:

 

- at long distance, you can notice tall objects partially obscured by the horizon (idk if this effect can be explained over a wide flat surface too)

 

 

So.... hit me... i want solid observable or verifiable  evidence that the earth is round :)

sorry but a picture from space i can not verify myself... but i would consider it a decent evidence if such a picture would be produced by a civilian

 

good luck digging!

 

[attachment=4752:Antarctica Perimeter.jpg]

 

 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Muratus del Mur

[MRWander]

What about flying in an airplane from one point back to it going around the world

[Maebius]

 

- commercial routes between very close points in the southern 'hemisphere' look to be incredible long on a globe model, but a direct route on the flat map they use for navigating.

 

 

 

Well, commercial air flights are "Commercial", and thus prone to the most severe forms of self-correcting methods of cost-savings maximization.

The fact that personal GPS can confirm that most long flights follow essentially a "Great Circle" route that curves when compared to what you might consider the "shortest straight line" between two distant locations, seems to imply a Globe.     The shortest distance between any two points on a globe winds up being remarkably similar to those "Great Circle" curves flown on airplaine routes.  (I flew twice, approx 2,752.62 km, & 3,959.88 km).   Both times I used my mobile to "track" the flight, which described curved arcs according to "the map" as I understand it.  (cartesian perspective, which also accounts for curvature)

 

It may not be "proof", but seems to fit the data in my mind, that Earth's round.  

 

But in other perspectives, I LOVE this topic, when you try to expand your perceptions outside "default communal fact" and see for yourself what might be wrong.

[powle]

http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html not only did the greeks prove that earth was spherical, they even calculated how big it is :)

[Lazarus]

Take a look at the UN's logo, that's how the real map of the earth looks like for flat-earthers. I also read from somewhere that both the North and South Poles is guarded by the military and cannot be accessed, they say the North Pole is projecting this Sun and Moon illusion, for what? I don't get why these people would lie to the public, seems like a lot of work for me.

My best guess is ancient aliens bruh, they was ancient aliens reptilian grey illuminati Zionists who wants to enslave mankind using the central banks and petrodollars.

[Ary Endleg]

So all this is fake?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "picture made by civilian". NASA and other agencies alike are civilian not military so... or you simply meant that picture would need to be produced by non government official? Well SpaceX of Elon Musk is commercial company who flies up to space, if world was flat they would told us :D unless they are part of conspiracy too....

[Nimrodel]

Try walking all straight till you find an 'edge' to jump off from. And then name it Bermuda triangle. ^_^

[AmberRune]

I did see a cool video on how a flat world would be. http://www.iflscience.com/space/what-would-happen-if-earth-was-flat

 

But I'm going to start the roundness with video taken from a scale test from a commercial space travel company. It does not show all of earth but what it does have of the edge also shows no stars visible beyond earth besides the Sun which is probably close enough and bright enough to wash out other pinpricks of light in the pictures anyway. (And images if video is weird: http://my.asiatatler.com/travel/see-earth-from-outer-space-with-bloon-s-private-near-space-flight )

 

As well as images from a civilian in a plane able to see the bowed edge: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901372/Pictures-edge-space-Photographer-riding-U-2-spy-plane-captures-stunning-images-13-miles-Earth.html

 

And with that bit on the outside of Earth, time to look inside since we have structure. We have these fantastic maps showing how shock waves made during earthquakes travel through the interior of our planet. When earthquakes happen, they create a wave that can be captured by instruments all around the world. These waves are bent by the different layers of the internal structure of Earth the same way lasers bend when going from air to water. (Like this) Since it bends a certain amount based on the contact angle it enters at, these waves travel straight through layers and only bend again at boundaries. We can detect some of the waves from earthquakes in places that should be too far away (or at inconsistent reflection angles away) on a flat world to feel them. And we can find that wave in multiple parts of the world that would be in different directions from the epicenter of the quake.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/JonF/Seismology/Northridge_Earthquake.png

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~braile/edumod/slinky/slinky.htm#Waves_in_Earth

 

Oh my goodness, and the jet streams! If the Earth were flat, the wind would go across evenly, would hit one edge harder than the rest of the map, or be pushing those of us on the surface violently into the ground. But we are not being noticeably smashed in one direction (gravity goes down but feathers float down slowly instead of crashing down like rocks) and jet streams have two major areas that they go across, separated by an area of doldrums where  the general wind directions aren't really as noticeable.

https://weathercycles.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/jetstreams-in-the-stratosphere/

[Muratus del Mur]

@mrf : works just the same on a flat world. On a spherical world you would fly/drive in a circle around the surface, in a flat one it will be also on a circle...very very large one, so it looks like a straight line.

In fact such a path would appear like a circle on the azimuthal equidistant projection used in navigation

Edited January 4, 2016 by Muratus del Mur

[Muratus del Mur]

ok first of all, this IS A VERY SERIOUS TOPIC. It is a challange for you to think with your own mind, not to take things for granted just because you heard them so.

Alien conspiracy theories and such are equally worthless like space images, because none of them you can prove or double check yourself.

I will try to fight all your answers, not because i want to fight for one of the answers but because i want to eliminate all theories that make no verifiable sense, regardless if they are saying the world is spheriucal, flat or even cubic or whatever.

 

 

...and btw @Ary, yeah ALL those pics are a rude fake...a very bad one also (i can detail more if you like, from my own perspective, but here is an interesting read http://gizmodo.com/5854771/the-secrets-behind-the-most-famous-earth-image-of-all-time )

 

Erastostene assumed the earth to be round, thats how he could calculate its possible radius..only if he assumed it was round not by proving it is. It is like if i would give you a distance..but instead of calling it a line i call it radius, implying its circle, you will know its diameter, but all you had to start with was a fixed size and an idea that it might be a circle. Thats how earth size was calculated.

 

ps. i found a couple of very strong evidence...but funny enough they are for both the round earth model and for the flat earth theory.... i won't discuss them here unless one of you opens the discussion, i will just "fight" your answers, regardless in what "favor" they are.

 

Its not about my own view of the world, its about you learning to actually thing with your own mind.

 

One good way to do this is to start comparing all other info you know from OWN experience and see if they could make sense with either of the two world models (like MRF did above with the flying from one point to the other question)

[Muratus del Mur]

@amber:

you noticed that flight costs £380,000 ?? kind of prohibitive, i reallly wonder if it ever took place. there should be social media pics of such an event, i doubt anyone paying almost half a million dollar on a flight with a view , would not flood his facebook with selfies :))...check that maybe? Also notice that the curvature in the second picture on that page is SIGNIFICANTLY different from the one in pic 5 ... idk what it means, it could mean they are generated from other pics or 3d model.. or different altitude...but the difference is too big.

 

the pictures from that plane are very interesting. I still have a problem with the lack of stars in such pictures, i saw various explenations, like the normal camera is not sensitive like the eye, or that light BENDS around the earth... nothing i heard so far really makes sense to me.... a professional photographer ...flying on such an awesome ride on a military jet...would bring best camera and make pics to exactly what his eyes are seeing.. so please explain me why there are no stars in such pics done by a professional with good equipment (and why just a couple of pics and not a full gallery). I am not saying they are fake, but i need more proof in such an "investigation" :)

 

what about the jetstreams? i don't get it why they could not work on a disk/flat surface

 

Btw, i did't see any evidence that its flat either, just theories that fit, saying it could be flat....same way it could be round... based on forged pics or questionable sources. Anyone can please find a theory or method of testing/proving earth "roundness" in your own backyard so to speak? There is one i know of so i am not sending you to chase ghosts.... but if you find other that will convince me, its a lot better.

So prove me in a way i can verify with my own abilities/tools that the earth round, or flat, or whatever.

[Fang Archbane]

The real question is, If i were to dig a hole straight down, and had the equipment to do so, what would happen?

My educated guess is id resurface on the "opposite" side of the "world"
This leads me to believe that the world is... semi spherical.
Id say more of an oval than an actual globe

Of course this is all assuming i didnt get stopped by

Basic human needs
The ever churning core of the earth
The fact that we as humans dont possess the technology (publicly) to achieve such a mission

If the world was flat, id either

A) Have nowhere to dig to/itd be a short dig
OR
B) By some odd paradox, come UP where i dug DOWN.

As odd as this may sound, this is how my brain works, and im sticking to it unless you can prove otherwise Mur.

I am a slave to Logic after all ( ^-^)

Edited January 4, 2016 by Fang Archbane

[Muratus del Mur]

look a very interesting discussion i found with both pro and contra well done arguments..check the videos too.

 

http://www.debate.org/debates/Scientific-evidence-overwellmingly-supports-a-flat-earth/1/

[Aeoshattr]

[...] first i want to say that there is NO ACTUAL IMAGE OF THE EARTH FROM SPACE. All images present editing and even nasa admits its like that because they generated the image from multiple satelites...you can see no stars around the earth in such images btw. Someone please give me a solid undeniable evidence that the earth is round. ...and no ...a "science" book does not represent valid evidence.[...]

You can't see the stars because the light being reflected off the earth obscures them. It's like looking straight at a lightbulb and not being able to see smaller lights around it clearly.

 

I'll address the other points later, if I find the patience to, but there is *serious* evidence that the Earth is round, not accepting it is a different matter. Here are some points:

1. You can see further away from higher points. In the Burj Khalifa hotel (is that the 1km tall one?) you can see the sunset twice, once from the bottom of the tower, and then by immediately taking the lift all the way to the top. This would not be the case on a flat surface.
2. Look out the window of your plane when you fly. You should be able to see the curvature of the Earth
3. Every single other celestial body (which yes, is visible with a telescope from your very own home!) is round and spheroidal. Why does the Earth need to be any different, considering we know it is a planet like the other ones in our solar system (we have rocks from Mars, etc.).
4. Timezones - timezones wouldn't exist over a flat surface, because since the sun is spherical and shines light in all directions, there would be the same amount of light (or similar at least) over the entire earth at the same time if it was flat. 
5. Gravity. If the earth was flat, its centre of gravity would be somewhere in the middle of whatever flat shape it would take, meaning people living around the edges of the flat surface would be drawn towards the centre obliquely. So technically, a lot of the buildings around the world shouldn't be vertical, they should be oblique. Like... oblique to the surface of the earth, I think this would be obvious as fudge.
6. The horizon: if the earth was flat, if I put a telescope level on the surface of the earth, I should be able to see all the way to the edge of the earth. But no matter how much you try, you will always see things 'sink' below the horizon, suggesting a curvature. Even if you put a telescope high up, say atop the Burj Khalifa, you will not be able to see America (or other places really far away from Dubai). This relates to point 1: you can see further, but there still is a horizon, and you cannot see things further away than it, even if you know they exist. This strongly suggests the earth has "sides" and tying it in with all the other evidence, it is most likely it is spheroidal.
7. Lunar eclipses: the earth casts a round shadow on the moon, and that round shadow is very consistent in shape, suggesting the earth is not only round, but also spheroidal (since a disc would cast various oval shapes depending on the angle light is shined on it).

There's more, but I'm done for now.

[Miq]

Altho you will probably dissmis all photos as fake you can try google estcube images those kids who made it had no point in faking them.

 

Also you can send your own balloon high enough probably.

[Aeoshattr]

Also: link to a guy who explains why stars don't show up on those pictures, most often. https://youtu.be/tMtwSVO0PQk?t=6m14s

[The Warrior]

Take three points on the surface of the world equidistant to one another in mutual view. From one point literally measure the angle between the two other points.

 

Being equidistant from one another they will form an equilateral triangle with all angles equal.

 

If on a flat world these angles will be roughly 60 degrees. On a spherical world they would be roughly 90 degrees. (other angles for different curved surfaces).

 

Admittedly this could be affected by local terrain, but a false result would be quite rare. Even so this could be extrapolated with the entire world covered in imaginary triangles, the average angle giving your answer.

Edited January 4, 2016 by The Warrior

[DARK DEMON]

Oh come now, Mur :P

 

If I recall correctly, satellites would not be able to orbit the Earth were it not for the curvature being in sync with the velocity of the satellite, because the satellite is always "falling". The fact that this orbiting takes place along the same principles as circular motion we see in front of our eyes, suggests that the Earth is round. 

 

Also, as a random fact: the Earth is not exactly round, it has a bulge and a very irregular surface, but these are negligible due to the Earth's minuscule size compared to the sun.

 

Another proof that the Earth is round: sunlight. The concentration of sunlight received at the surface of the Earth at the equator is not the same as the concentration received at the poles, which is why poles are much colder. This is because the sunlight has to travel a farther (diagonal) distance and is spread over a wider area at the poles, and a small horizontal distance at the equator (in reality its the Tropics alternatively, not the equator btw). On a flat surface, sunlight would be distributed equally throughout the entire 'Earth' and there would be no such temperature difference. Google images this: "latitudinal effect"

 

 

 

If you didn't know these facts: I'm shocked lol

If you knew them: Please shock me by proving how these do not answer your question

Edited January 4, 2016 by DARK DEMON

[Menhir]

There will be no proof at all because everything you´re looking for is outside of you and everything you can KNOW is through your 5 senses which are all (working) inside of you. So if you´re looking for proof you have to look inside yourself. If you look outside yourself for proof you will always be in an illusion.

[Pipstickz]

Stop acting like a conspiracy theorist, fool.

Since being indoctrinated in education, most people might believe that any body of water bordering the edge of the earth might find itself endlessly waterfalling into space, however that is not the case. At the edge of the world you may every once in a while see droplets falling into space, but for the most part it simply hugs the edge in an extremely thin layer, flowing between either side as necessary.

What then happens when a human walks over the edge? Why would any vehicle that human may occupy prevent that?

[No one]

Its not about my own view of the world, its about you learning to actually thing with your own mind.

 

One good way to do this is to start comparing all other info you know from OWN experience and see if they could make sense with either of the two world models (like MRF did above with the flying from one point to the other question)

 

Well, Powle beat me to it.

http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html not only did the greeks prove that earth was spherical, they even calculated how big it is :)

Anyway, I can propose you to reproduce the experiment.

 

While Eratosthenes just shows that the "sun is rotating around the Earth" :P or that "Earth is rotating", I propose you to use the Earth's gravity to check that the Earth is round.

So, using Eratosthenes proof that "sun is rotating around the Earth", considering that light travels almost linear, build a weight attached to a rod (like ... a fish pole fishing a balloon with water) to "seek" / "point to" center of the Earth. Take at least 2 measurements of shadow & angles to where the weight is pointing.

Best thing is to coordinate with other ppl and make the measurements at the same time at great distances.

After some math ... you'll get some angles which would prove that the Earth is round.

Also, if yo want to get further proofs, you'll need to travel from one hemisphere to the other and check the reading on the measurements that I've mentioned above.

 

-------------------------------------------

If you still don't believe it ... then don't even try to prove it. It is a hoax. The Earth is flat.

[Ary Endleg]

There just isn't any backyard-low-budget-diy method that doesn't include making assumptions/speculations with "flawed" logic without the use of tech/knowledge made by other people (claiming they ain't trustworthy yet we are to put aside questioning reasons/motives why they wouldn't be) to prove either that world is flat or round. You gave too many restrictions. Methods given by people above are good in my mind but they don't meet those requirements you asked for.

 

Hence this is just a moot point endless debate for purpose of brain workout and hence the answer is irrelevant, right? If so... there's a saying "If enough data is collected, court of justice can prove anything." Consequently this appears to be just a game of willpower, who will be the most zealous in defending his view and/or successful enough in confusing the other side to give up the debate, which is a folly since always somebody else can show up and continue, etc...

[Muratus del Mur]

wow so many answers, i will have to skip answering some.

 

@Aeoshattr:p points 6 and 7 , about the horizon and the lunar eclipse, i like them ..both valid proof

(the rest are not so strong because they imply laws of physics on a spherical object, but if its not , then it might have different forces that keep it in place also, and timezone is related to the sun, can work on a flat surface also. "visible" curvature is also no proof because its actually not visible unless very high altitude, its optical illusion most of the time..like when you watch the horizon at sea)

 

 

@Miq

finnaly an other source for such pics! i never herd of them before. Please tell me...who/what did the pictures of the sattelite considering the satelite itself is tiny. ...and why in these pictures is FULL of stars while in others is none, yet the earth has about the same luminosity.... http://g4.nh.ee/images/pix/900x585/5YSjUJLP3Qs/ce3d95188cc6c7cd66-66087412.jpg

(i am not saying they are fake, these, but explain me the above)

 

@The warrior: yesss...one of the things i wanted to hear :)) ... that would prove the shape of the earth ..and if measured acurately it could also say if it is spherical, dome, flat, whatever. I think this is a very valid method to test...but can it be done in practice? you would need vast spaces...maybe at sea? Maybe using lasers for the lines? or that wouldn't work because of the curvature?

 

@Menhir: but whats inside mirrors what is outside, and vice versa. "As above so below"...

 

@Dark Demon: orbiting things can be explained on the flat earth model as well, you just go outside the reach of gravity and you're 'floating'

The sunlight, the way you describe it, makes no sense, as you would see different tempreture levels from a radial heat source just the same on a flat surface as on a spherical one, I challanged the earth shape, never said the sun becomes "flat" too. Check out minute 1:18 of this movie so you understand what i mean about sunlight explained on a flat model https://youtu.be/GDaiw-G1VGE?list=LLPazc0hA-FeE0eRigtzDoEQ

 

 

Btw, i will give out 3 wishpoints for the smartest three answers, if there will be 3 (for either theory if the case). by smart i mean if its simple enough to do by anyone and is unquestionable proof. (one per person)

 

(now i switch to the next page and answer those as well)

[Muratus del Mur]

and Ary Endleg get one wp for a clever answer.

one wp to either Miq or Aeo,....undecided yet.....if miq can prove the method is "do-able" gets it, if not Aeo

 

One more wp left

[Miq]

Mur, 

 

It's a university/students project. The cube hitched a ride on a commercial rocket and was uncontrollable (the reasons for weird angles on pictures and so on).  The image you put out is the main purpouse of the cube. To test and deploy a string (to test deployment possibilities of a sunsail ). 

 

But i think that image is a illustration of the cube :) it was technically impossible to take that picture.

These are more or less real (fb edits images) https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.714789431869328.1073741835.143994212282189&type=3.

 

I could ask about the stars and raw images but dunno if that is needed.

 

 

 

http://www.estcube.eu/en/

 

 

edit: personally i think it's impossible to get stars on the image with earths sun side (try taking a picture of a star turning a day facing sun).

 

This one has got a fellow satellite on it: http://f.pmo.ee/f/2013/05/21/1770010t100h493c.jpg

Edited January 4, 2016 by Miq