Tolls

[Ivorak]

I want to see both more cooperation and more conflict between lands.

I'd like to propose that lands/kings should be able to implement toll roads (or bridges/gates/doors/ports/etcetera). On attempting a movement to another scene the player would be prompted to pay the toll, if they decline they are denied access and remain in the same scene. Payments should go into land treasuries.

This would be a pretty powerful tool, but other lands could respond in kind or even declare war. Hopefully we'd end up with some treaties preventing certain tolls.

This concept could be expanded in that "Location X" requires the possession of "Item Y" without actually requiring that item to be given up.

Any thoughts?

[Pipstickz]

I like this idea, but I wonder how the fee could be paid if no citizen is online, for example

Is there a way we could introduce debt items to MD? ie. You try to move, agree to the fee, and thus are given an item worth -1 silver somehow?

[DARK DEMON]

7 hours ago, Pipstickz said:

I like this idea, but I wonder how the fee could be paid if no citizen is online, for example

Is there a way we could introduce debt items to MD? ie. You try to move, agree to the fee, and thus are given an item worth -1 silver somehow?

A25 has all the tools needed to implement this very well. If I remember this from years ago, then at the moment it should be even better and easier. You can literally create NPCs to receive items and 'unlock' scene arrows, etc (and a lot more). The only thing I can't recall is whether this is player specific or not. I think if one person pays the toll, the scene would unlock for a short time for every player, not just the one who paid. But I'm sure that may possibly be implemented too.

That said, I love the idea.

 

[MaGoHi]

what you described sounds more like a paid visa to me

 

some of my own thoughts:

implementing a "fee" for resources (base resources not what you get out of the processors) that are collected in that land (through trade or with tool) and then brought out would be more like a toll

you could make "free" quantities: people that collect less than X amount dont get a fee

noob protection: people with less than X AD have a smaller fee

example:

player A enters Land C with X herbs, collects herbs in Y quantity and leaves the land with Z Herbs, the difference gets calculated:

• more than the "free" amount: the fee gets calculated based on Y and taken from Z, player A leaves with Z-fee
• less than the "free" amount: no fee, player leaves with Z

 

with jump to leader, leashes or other jumps you could also try to "smuggle" stuff out since you dont use "proper ways"

[Blackshade Rider]

8 hours ago, DARK DEMON said:

A25 has all the tools needed to implement this very well. If I remember this from years ago, then at the moment it should be even better and easier. You can literally create NPCs to receive items and 'unlock' scene arrows, etc (and a lot more). The only thing I can't recall is whether this is player specific or not. I think if one person pays the toll, the scene would unlock for a short time for every player, not just the one who paid. But I'm sure that may possibly be implemented too.

That said, I love the idea.

 

I do believe this would be possible with the A25

 

5 hours ago, MaGoHi said:

what you described sounds more like a paid visa to me

 

some of my own thoughts:

implementing a "fee" for resources (base resources not what you get out of the processors) that are collected in that land (through trade or with tool) and then brought out would be more like a toll

you could make "free" quantities: people that collect less than X amount dont get a fee

noob protection: people with less than X AD have a smaller fee

example:

player A enters Land C with X herbs, collects herbs in Y quantity and leaves the land with Z Herbs, the difference gets calculated:

• more than the "free" amount: the fee gets calculated based on Y and taken from Z, player A leaves with Z-fee
• less than the "free" amount: no fee, player leaves with Z

 

with jump to leader, leashes or other jumps you could also try to "smuggle" stuff out since you dont use "proper ways"

As well as this.

 

I also like the idea. Personally it would make sense in a way. You want something specific from a land then when you enter or when you leave You must pay a toll for taking precious resources from said land

[Chewett]

have you guys forgotten about land papers?

[Blackshade Rider]

If some one has a land paper it could bypass the toll. As the were invited. 

[Pipstickz]

8 hours ago, Chewett said:

have you guys forgotten about land papers?

I certainly didn't, was going to post about them initially, but I didn't want to stifle any creative juices that might flow.

But pass papers only work on the gate, whereas this concept could apply more broadly and could have great implications for two lands' (not any specific two lands, in general) abilities to be allies or enemies. I'm 90% sure Ivorak had pass papers in mind when thinking of this.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Pipstickz

[No one]

yeah, nice idea (sarcastic).

Lets take this to extreme as "one crazy emperor would raise such tolls in each scene" . That would be fun.

Or ... do block access to main roads which lead to shared items and ask for items produced by those shared items. That would be fun. I can't wait to ask for a polished diamond for you to enter LotE

 

On the other hand ... there are also the MD keys that would allow you to enter certain locations.

And ... if I am not mistaken, this sounds like closing up some parts of MD when I proposed smth dynamic just to bring ppl closer Mur said that he would not close parts of MD. Anyway, if he has smth to say ... he'll say it.

 

As for experimenting there is always DD's labby. Nobody else cares about it so feel free.

[Pipstickz]

26 minutes ago, No one said:

yeah, nice idea (sarcastic).

Lets take this to extreme as "one crazy emperor would raise such tolls in each scene" . That would be fun.

Or ... do block access to main roads which lead to shared items and ask for items produced by those shared items. That would be fun. I can't wait to ask for a polished diamond for you to enter LotE

Sure, if implemented a certain way, things like you suggest could possibly happen. If implemented another way, they won't.

Aside from that, Kings have in the past been given authority to affect AP cost on their gates (Ann. 1949, 1950) and the AP cost of all scenes in the Tribunal were raised under similar but separate authority (Ann, 1884)

So, while this isn't exactly your extreme example, it comes close and it's already happened historically.

[Chewett]

20 hours ago, Blackshade Rider said:

If some one has a land paper it could bypass the toll. As the were invited. 

except they can be given by anyone.

If you changed them then they could act as papers, say you buy some for X days to act as your item.

[Blackshade Rider]

32 minutes ago, Chewett said:

except they can be given by anyone.

If you changed them then they could act as papers, say you buy some for X days to act as your item.

If I'm not mistaken, there used to be a few kings and citizens of somelands that would charge to use pass papers. So if pass papers for a land are only able to be grabbed by a citizen of that land or the king/queen and even now the tool guardians then they would have paid to go through the land using pass papers. But if a none citizen enters without the papers then certain scenes would need to have a payment to advance. 

I think it would also be slightly unfair if a king were to make every scene have a payment. But I like the idea as said above with the scene before the shared tools being locked and one has to pay something you can harvest with one of these tools. 

 

[Ivorak]

13 minutes ago, Blackshade Rider said:

I think it would also be slightly unfair if a king were to make every scene have a payment. But I like the idea as said above with the scene before the shared tools being locked and one has to pay something you can harvest with one of these tools. 

This would be unfair, especially if unannounced. If I pay a silver near the entrance to a land I wouldn't expect to pay it at the next scene as well. Especially if I had to pay to go back as well (which shouldn't be a necessary condition but could be depending on how tolls were implemented).

I'd also be peeved if I was found to be in a specific location and then tolls were raised around that location to single out me in such a punitive manner.

If this was implemented we'd need some basic rules on it's use (with great power comes great responsibility). And more rules could be implemented socially through treaties, threat of retaliatory action, etc.

One guideline I have in mind is that tolls should be about access, not about containment. They shouldn't be used to imprison players (though this might be useful in certain cases, preferably pre-approved) but to regulate access to tools, resources, locations, transport, etc.

To expand upon that last parenthetical, maybe players could sign up for a quest in a certain area and not be allowed out into they've solved the quest (murder mystery in one of the mansions in the East maybe?) and receive an item with which to pay the toll. Or a mission for new MP3s that disallows them from certain areas until they've proved their mettle.

15 hours ago, Pipstickz said:

But pass papers only work on the gate, whereas this concept could apply more broadly and could have great implications for two lands' (not any specific two lands, in general) abilities to be allies or enemies. I'm 90% sure Ivorak had pass papers in mind when thinking of this.

And yeah, I had forgotton about pass papers, but I think both concepts (and the interplay between them) are interesting.

[Pipstickz]

10 hours ago, Ivorak said:

One guideline I have in mind is that tolls should be about access, not about containment. They shouldn't be used to imprison players (though this might be useful in certain cases, preferably pre-approved) but to regulate access to tools, resources, locations, transport, etc.

To expand upon that last parenthetical, maybe players could sign up for a quest in a certain area and not be allowed out into they've solved the quest (murder mystery in one of the mansions in the East maybe?) and receive an item with which to pay the toll. Or a mission for new MP3s that disallows them from certain areas until they've proved their mettle.

In a utopian MD with more activity, perhaps the chained quests concept could fit nicely with this; imagine tiered quests, starting with one a newb could complete that rewards land-specific resources, leads to a more complicated quest that requires or suggests you to pay a toll to access a certain place the price of which is a resource gained by the first quest, leads to a more complicated quest that could end in citizenship?

Also - perhaps as a player gains more cartography, tolls lower naturally? Or maybe volition? I'm not sure...maybe even land loyalty, though presumably citizens get through free, I dunno. But that could help prevent full closure of any location.

10 hours ago, Ivorak said:

And yeah, I had forgotton about pass papers, but I think both concepts (and the interplay between them) are interesting.

Dang it, foiled again! Good thing I didn't put 100%! I almost did

Edited April 18, 2018 by Pipstickz