War!

[Peace]

[quote name='Observer' date='20 September 2009 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1253479480' post='42204']
It might just be me but I think your character description sais your... death? I do believe that in monarchies (in general) that rather reduces your claims for power etc.
[/quote]

Did I say that I have power over the Sentinels? I believe I just stated that once we decide who can lead them we do not interfere with them unless needed. And did I interfere with them now? Am I back in the alliance? Am I running the Sentinels? No. I merely stated my objection over Marvolo's capture.

Now, back to you Liberty.

I did chose Jester to lead. I did gave him full authority over the army. From that point after it was all up to him, not up for the Dynasty. I did agreed with the idea of a war, yes, the reasons why I will not make public. At least not yet.

But I am asking you, ever since you found out about the war why didn't you come to me, ask me about my opinion or whatever?

[Observer]

[quote]we do not mess with any Sentinel plans unless we are obligated to, like now.[/quote]

I guess that means you do deem yourself still in power even through your death.

[Liberty4life]

why? because first attack is crucial in here, it gives me advantage, if i came to ya asap, i could risk my military advantage, without knowing diplomatic result, which can end up in any way, while this way i chosen gave me my advantage, and still diplomacy is possible but now i dont risk being striked first at home, to me it looked like ya support war, now since ya mentioned interfering with work of sentinels if ya object to war ya should start interfering against your general, otherwise if ya do nothing but have power to interfere with theirs work when needed and that would be now, then i see ya on same side sharing same opinion about war

[Peace]

Have you read my description? If not let me remind you what it says. 'Departed her body after drinking poison to follow her dad's wish, haunts the lands and [b]watches over[/b] Necrovion.'

I was adopted by a man of great power and wisdom to inherit his legacy. I died but I am still here, which means that I still have some kind of power, don't I? My job is not finished. Unless that man or another of higher power than him takes my title away that is.

Liberty, the opinion [i]I[/i] have for this war does not match yours for I know the reasons of it, while you do not. But how would you know? You randomly assaulted the land I watch because my general stated that he [b]wants[/b] to have war, not because he started one, and that got my attention. You do state that you will claim it and the alliance if Jester does not agree to your terms. So as you stand armed in my lands, I will interfere.

As you can see, I speak on my behalf only and not for the Sentinels. What Jester will do, I will not say for it is not in my place to say.

Edited September 20, 2009 by DarkPriestess

[Observer]

Watching over does not necessarily mean to interfere. It also means to observe, for example.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Observer' date='20 September 2009 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1253481682' post='42213']
Watching over does not necessarily mean to interfere. It also means to observe, for example.
[/quote]

Why exactly are you making a big deal out of this? Peace will do what Peace does.

[Peace]

As long as the troops of the Knights and the Guirrilla members stand armed within the land I am watching, I will interfere as much as it is needed.

[Liberty4life]

ofc that i assaulted your land, your general was about to start one war, should i wait till he starts one and brings fight to me or my allies, ya see even he started it on golemus or even lore, i would come to aid because lately i made some bounds with them

waiting for opponent to do his move first makes me the one that gets disadvantage at start, as i see ya support war, but ya dont support war that is on your soil, ofc that is clear to me and it can be seen plainly in your posts, while ya support your general in waging war, those things can be seen best in here

[quote]Liberty, the opinion I have for this war does not match yours for I know the reasons of it, while you do not. But how would you know? You randomly assaulted the land I watch because my general stated that he wants to have war, not because he started one, and that got my attention.[/quote]

in here ya are just saying that ya know reasons for war and ya support it, so i can totally put ya in same basket with jester

Edited September 20, 2009 by Liberty4life

[Observer]

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='20 September 2009 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1253482130' post='42216']
Why exactly are you making a big deal out of this? Peace will do what Peace does.
[/quote]

[quote]So,my 'dear' Liberty, if you say that we are the ones who have the final word then why wasn't I notified or even do any negotiations in the first place to prevent this from happening?[/quote]

Peace will do what peace does but that does not mean dead people should have a final word (and in their defense claim it's in their description)

[Peace]

[quote name='Observer' date='20 September 2009 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1253483390' post='42219']
Peace will do what peace does but that does not mean dead people should have a final word (and in their defense claim it's in their description)
[/quote]

Dead or not, I am still here. So while I am still here I will do what I am told to do.

[quote name='Liberty4life' date='20 September 2009 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1253482683' post='42218']
in here ya are just saying that ya know reasons for war and ya support it, so i can totally put ya in same basket with jester
[/quote]

I will repeat myself then. As long as your troops and the rest of those wetlanders stay in the land I watch, I give my support to the defenders. I do not say that I support the war. Read carefully: I support the defenders meaning that I support those who are to be attacked, in this case the Sentinels. Not the war (that Jester did not start, nor the one you want to have now) but the Sentinels. Kapiche?

[Liberty4life]

aha i do understand, so if i leave would jester get dismissed? i think he wont so i wont leave becoz he did planned war i saw it in same moment and started organizing lighting response

also read your pm on forum

[genocidal]

[quote]I did chose Jester to lead. I did gave him full authority over the army. From that point after it was all up to him, not up for the Dynasty. I did agreed with the idea of a war, yes, the reasons why I will not make public. At least not yet.[/quote]

Does this not imply that you peace supported the idea of war that jester was planning on golomus? Correct me if im wrong but if a leader before and after his inogeration states he will go to war on a certain land, does that not give the power to that land to take his words as a threat and retaliate? Words have alot of power and words from heads of countries have alot of weight.

[Jester]

The Knights of the Bell and Guerilla Golemicarum have declared war on Necrovion without reasonable provocation or cause. Yrthilian is a power hungry tyrant who only wants to increase his influence, and Liberty is blinded by his hatred of the shades and will do anything to attack them or their land. As such, the Sentinels have allied with the Children of the Eclipse, and will defend Necrovion from this completely unjustified assault. We will discontinue the war as soon as the Knights of the Bell retreat and Guerilla Golemicarum has new leadership. Yrthilian has already threatened to attack Loreroot because he didn’t like their leader, it is clear now that he will do this to every leader he sees as unworthy. As such, he cannot be allowed to remain in power. They speak of me being a threat to them, but its obvious now that they are the real threat to anyone who doesn’t agree with them, and must be stopped.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Jester

[Lazarus]

[quote]aha i do understand, so if i leave would jester get dismissed? i think he wont so i wont leave becoz he did planned war i saw it in same moment and started organizing lighting response

also read your pm on forum [/quote]

[i][font="Palatino Linotype"][size="3"]Clearly, you do not see the side of Peace or Jester or the Sentinels, nor you do understand what they really want to feed into your pity little mind.

The key in every war that is won is to see and understand the side of the opponent and their tactics/plans. You threatened them with slavery if they did not respond to your demands. You held their land as a hostage only to satisfy you thirst for power and pride, and you said you just did a lightning response, but a response for what? I did not see the Sentinels take actions yet, all they, or Jester's did is to declare war, nothing more from there. You did held the Prince of Necrovion as a hostage with no respect even if he is not one of the Sentinels anymore. You took advantage for their preparation (?) and sent your little puppies wiggling their tails on their land and even built a roof for them.

Now you are telling us that you DO understand?

It is [b]their[/b] lands and not yours, they have the right to protect it and interfere if necessary. Your highly unethical actions clearly defines the word "Warmongering" perfectly, not the Sentinels.

Respect the family and the dynasty, for even a true enemy can show [b]respect[/b], and I think you are not one of them...[/size][/font][/i]

[Tarquinus]

[quote]The Knights of the Bell and Guerilla Golemicarum have declared war on Necrovion without reasonable provocation or cause. Yrthilian is a power hungry tyrant who only wants to increase his influence, and Liberty is blinded by his hatred of the shades and will do anything to attack them or their land. As such, the Sentinels have allied with the Children of the Eclipse, and will defend Necrovion from this completely unjustified assault.[/quote]
Sic semper tyrannis.

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

[quote name='King Lazarus' date='20 September 2009 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1253491230' post='42235']
[i][font="Palatino Linotype"][size="3"]Clearly, you do not see the side of Peace or Jester or the Sentinels, nor you do understand what they really want to feed into your pity little mind.

The key in every war that is won is to see and understand the side of the opponent and their tactics/plans. You threatened them with slavery if they did not respond to your demands. You held their land as a hostage only to satisfy you thirst for power and pride, and you said you just did a lightning response, but a response for what? I did not see the Sentinels take actions yet, all they, or Jester's did is to declare war, nothing more from there. You did held the Prince of Necrovion as a hostage with no respect even if he is not one of the Sentinels anymore. You took advantage for their preparation (?) and sent your little puppies wiggling their tails on their land and even built a roof for them.

Now you are telling us that you DO understand?

It is [b]their[/b] lands and not yours, they have the right to protect it and interfere if necessary. Your highly unethical actions clearly defines the word "Warmongering" perfectly, not the Sentinels.

Respect the family and the dynasty, for even a true enemy can show [b]respect[/b], and I think you are not one of them...[/size][/font][/i]
[/quote]

Respect of anyone has been lost for a very long, long time.

[Pipstickz]

[quote name='Amoran Kalamanira Kol' date='20 September 2009 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1253492718' post='42237']
Respect of anyone has been lost for a very long, long time
[/quote]
Me and respect had a war a loooong time ago...needless to say, respect lost ^^

[pamplemousse]

Is this war going to be fought here on the forum like the last one? Or, will there be a system to record body count and kills and *gasp* ACTUAL fighting?

[Pipstickz]

Depends if anyone gives up before the fighting starts xD

[Tarquinus]

[quote name='pamplemousse' date='20 September 2009 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1253498722' post='42241']
Is this war going to be fought here on the forum like the last one? Or, will there be a system to record body count and kills and *gasp* ACTUAL fighting?
[/quote]
This will be an 'actual' war, O Brightest of the Stars in Heaven; and there seems little or nothing standing in its way. As to systems, the leaders of the parties involved have come to an agreement. One way or another, the war will be fought.

[Udgard]

[quote name='Liberty4life' date='21 September 2009 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1253468536' post='42178']
yes its theirs land
[/quote]
They are affiliated with the Land. The Sentinel's duty is to protect the land. But that does not make them own the Land.
Let's see.. the crafters are currently affiliated to Loreroot. If someone is waging war against the crafters, should they claim the land of Loreroot for their own land as well? It's my land, as in its the Land where I belong, but it is not my land in the sense that I own it. Business with me should not lead to making a hostage out of my land.

I personally do not mind your pre-emptive attack, that is a logical military action to take in face of a clear threat. But targeting what is not the right target is not justifiable in my opinion. OF course, everyone's free to do it, but if you do target what is not the right target, don't use pre-emptive as a reason. It's an incorrect reason for claiming the Land, as the Land itself has nothing to do with this. If you're waging war against the Sentinels, only they and their allies will fight you. If you are laying siege to claim the Land, everyone people who consider it their home, and eeryone else who cares about necrovion will be forced to act. And that would be way off from your original purpose.

So, I call for the Golemus-Bellknights alliance to change their declared target in the war to strictly the Sentinels, and drop all the claiming of land thing. That is, if you want to stay true to your said intentions of this war. If you would not drop the claim for the Land, then please provide a justifiable reason, or stop using your current reason for claiming the Land. Sorry to say, it doesn't make sense =)

PS: doesn't anyone learn from the last misguided 'war'? another attack claiming the Land using a small group of people as the reason? *sigh*

[Lady Renata]

[quote name='Jester' date='21 September 2009 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1253490837' post='42234']
The Knights of the Bell and Guerilla Golemicarum have declared war on Necrovion without reasonable provocation or cause. Yrthilian is a power hungry tyrant who only wants to increase his influence, and Liberty is blinded by his hatred of the shades and will do anything to attack them or their land. As such, the Sentinels have allied with the Children of the Eclipse, and will defend Necrovion from this completely unjustified assault. We will discontinue the war as soon as the Knights of the Bell retreat and Golemus Golemicarum has new leadership. Yrthilian has already threatened to attack Loreroot because he didn't like their leader, it is clear now that he will do this to every leader he sees as unworthy. As such, he cannot be allowed to remain in power. They speak of me being a threat to them, but its obvious now that they are the real threat to anyone who doesn't agree with them, and must be stopped.
[/quote]


Nobody could've said it better.

[Metal Bunny]

Or... We have a churchill and not a chamberlain. (NO, I AM NOT COMPARING JESTER TO HITLER)

I mean, seriously jester, you did start talking about instigating war, so we do have a cause and reason.
Whether or not it is a just cause or reason, that is entirely debatable.

But really, did you not expect this? With Wodin as our alliance's founder, I mean, really?
It's like you, a nation and it's leader, talks about war. Then it becomes surprised when one of the /very, very few/ neighbours pre-emptively strikes.
I mean, really? Isn't it just a tiny bit naïve to think that /everyone/ would wait until you attacked them in their homeland?

Now, we can debate all we want about the justness and righteousness about this war. We could go back and forth about the real cause of war. We could point fingers and we could, from both sides, argue that we are the right side and that the enemy deserves to be punished and that the enemy is actually a tyrant.

GG could argue that Jester was the first to speak of aggression and war and that we had to attack first to make sure that the "evil" (heh, whatever) never spread to our lands.
Necro could argue that the talks were just flim-flam and nonsense and that it was supposed to be collegial and all that other fluffy-like rubbish. Necro could continue to argue that since GG attacked first, that they are the aggressor and that they are the "evil" that needs to be repelled as the barbaric and tyrannous invaders that they are.

OR, you could all calm down and realize that it's a war and no war is just. No war is good. No war is desirable from the perspective of the realm as a whole, with the possible exception of the winner, under certain circumstances.
I argue that both sides are wrong. Jester shouldn't have been talking about war and yrthilian shouldn't have attacked necro so fast from the inside.
But, this I argue from the entire realm's perspective.

My own perspective is different.

Stop being so pretentious and don't play the victim card. If you really mean it, then why are you not fighting back? You think pity and angry words will repel invaders?

I myself, being in the GG alliance, am all for the war. And people who know me, know that I am not very shy for war. And I expect some fierce resistance, especially after all that war-talk. So where is it? Have we already won? Again?
Don't make excuses and fight me like a true warrior, fight me as if I was indeed a real tyrant. Fight me!

Edited September 21, 2009 by Metal Bunny

[dst]

The war is not over until the fat lady sings!

[Liberty4life]

well i have said everything, if healthy sense cant come to ya, not my problem, i wont even try to say otherwise, and biggest lol in here is that smartasses must have theirs word in here even if they arent involved in war, i wonder how ya "know" things

as for opponents, well some of ya bs a lot, and some just play stupid, bsing is kinda part of politics, so i can handle it, but others that just play stupid, well not problem to me, not my problem, ya folks are ones that will live with all this stupidity

enough of bs lets just fight, talkin is for gals, ya say wot ever ya want neither i nor my guys will care, cya on frontline