Discrimination In Md

[Phantom Orchid]

If you believe discrimination in MD based on race/gender/sexual orientation is *not* ok, please discuss below what might be done about it.

edit: This poll stems from a homophobic remark in my PL. As a person who has been the victim of hate crimes in RL, I find this unacceptable. If this behavior is tolerated in MD, then I will probably choose to not play. This is a game, after all, and I don't need this kind of BS to affect me here as well.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Phantom Orchid

[Chewett]

You can punish people, but apart from that i dont think you can do anything else.

[Lifeline]

what do u want to do about it? its way outside anybodys radius of control what other people think. there will always be people who hate others for some reasons. just move on and stay unaffected. what about an example of somebody whose whole familly got killed by some stoned teenager and now he discriminates everybody who takes drugs... it would be understandable.

[Tarquinus]

The community can exert pressure of its own. If we, as the poll suggests, do not tolerate such behavior, we can make "offenders" feel the weight of our displeasure. And frankly, that's about the only thing that can be done. Making it a matter of policy will sooner or later invite complaints about "PC Thought Police" and similar stuff.

I have to put this bluntly: these things are a matter of respect and common courtesy, which certain very immature people enjoy violating because they lack either quality, because they are happy with any sort of attention, even (or especially) of the negative sort, or both. When I am around a person who behaves in such a fashion, I will rebuke that person: and if I think I am dealing with an attention-seeker, I do what is the only thing attention-seekers really hate, which is to ignore them. I find that mature, intelligent people who are approached with respect and informed "that is not appropriate" or "you have really offended me" tend to react favorably and modify their behavior accordingly.

NB to Poe and any other concerned parties - ignoring an attention-seeker can be mistaken for tacit approval of that person's behavior. Assess any situation before concluding that the community approves of offensive behavior. Cf. the behavior of those who think it is some kind of badge of honor to have a negative forum reputation. No matter what you do, some people just don't get the message that no one likes them [u]because[/u] they are obnoxious jerks.

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

While I have always believed that it is not okay to use racism as an excuse to do whatever the heck you want, just as I do not believe in using a character role to do as you please in any role play setting... I do not think discrimination of any kind should be tolerated but in truth there is not a lot that can be done about it. If someone offends you, use what you can to punish them and let them know it has offended you.

This is a major part of the reason I ask in my hate pages to 'watch what you say to other people' as the smallest thing could set another person off or offend them.

As Lucius said brilliantly, it falls down to a matter of courtesy towards other people and those who lack the intelligence to respect another person's race, social choice, or life choice should not be tolerated.

Edit: Read the recent announcement.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Amoran Kalamanira Kol

[Grido]

[quote][color="#cccccc"][2009-11-25 23:37:48 - Alpha 9][/color]
[b]Important - About the rules and discrimination[/b] Discrimination of player characters based on things in their "real life" will be treated from now on as a serious crime. Sexual discrimination, racism, political or any kind of discrimination is a serious barrier against understanding how a person realy is and MD is all about understanding the minds/characters not digging crap about that person so you can affect his MD Character. Several new regulations to support this were added to the game rules. Please check the [Restrictions] page (top menu) for the new rules, you will find them written in red. These new rules will start to apply in a few days, untill then you have time to edit public logs, remove forum topics and clean anything that can get punished by these rules. No action will be taken on previous events IF everything is clean by the time i start to check, the rules apply from now on.


Note: Don't get me wrong, discrimination WITHIN MD is allowed, meaning you can manifest your hate against someone because he is a citizen of a certain enemy land, or because he has an extra pair of hands... just keep it decent.[/quote]

[Muratus del Mur]

What i did not mention very clearly there is that trying to trap someone into offending you or discriminate you is also a serious thing. I have nothing against man that love man untill one comes next to me wearing a dress and tries to kiss me, well then i explode. If you want to be respected by others , learn to respect the others too.

This is like that, woman want to be equal with man, fine, then don;t expect man to open the door for you or to carry the groceries or pay for your closes, THEN you are equal.

I live in a country where such discrimination is common, but in MD i learned that judging anyone by apparences is not only irrelevant but also a huge barrier against realy understanding that person. Its not about how smart or how cute or how well integrated the person is, its about the "character" of that person, something that MD tries to show and to analize. If you bring in MD your personal frustrations, likes and dislikes, everything will go down without a chance to go up.

Even if you are by nature a person that judges others by race, sex, other, at least try in MD to respect everyone and please don;t mix RL with MD discriminations, ...maybe you will realise that you have A LOT to learn if you do that. I myself learned how idiot i was when i judged people by their preferences or ethnicity, and i still realise how difficult it is to change what others think, like my family or you MD players. If RULES are needed to force you to keep MD clean of that, then so be it. I assure you i will enforce these rules untill md is clean.

[Phantom Orchid]

Thank you Grido, Peace, Z, Pamplemousse, Ailith, Lucius and others. I have a renowned respect for each of you.



And thank you Death Ray, for being such a j***. For without you, we would have never had this discussion.



I'm fine with closing this thread if everyone else is.


"These walls divide us, we're on two different sides
But these walls are not real, how can they be real
They're only made of concrete and barbed-wire"

-Lucinda Williams

[dst]

Well well well...it seems our dear and beloved Phantom Orchid who was sooo insulted by someone PL entry has double standards
Take a look at the below print screen:

[attachment=1455:Pl entry.JPG].



Nicola bla bla is her alt in case you did not know.

I asked her through PM to remove her entry. She said she will remove it only if I remove mine. I asked her to explain to me why my entry is wrong and when I did that she threaten me to put me on ignore list if I contact her again.
So Phantom, stop pretending to be offended when you have no idea what an offense is! Don't act like a prude (thanks Czez for teaching me the word) cause you're just a big hypocrite!

[Shadowseeker]

For curiosity, what was your entry in hers?

[Jubaris]

dont praise this person is an offense to you?

[Burns]

[quote]dst
Don\'t bother praising this character: she is an alt.[/quote]

too lazy to do a fancy print-screen...
and not entirely sure which side is right, though i do think Nicola's entry is by far more offensive LOL

dst's was there earlier afaik... and i saw nicola's in the recent PL-changes a few hours ago, so i'm pretty sure

Edited February 9, 2010 by Burns

[dst]

Print screen:
[attachment=1457:Nicola\'s entry.JPG]


@Princ: I hope that question was not for me.

[pamplemousse]

I'm not sure why an alt cannot garner praise. Does the fact that she has another character negate the work one does on the other, I'm not inclined to think so.

Don't other people make puns about your name, Dst? Some in the very same vein?

[Phantom Orchid]

Hello,

First off, this thread has gone [i]way[/i] off-topic. None of this has anything to do with discrimination. However, as it appears this issue has now become a spectacle (ugh), I have posted below my latest PM response to DST.

------------------------------------------------

Sent Today, 11:12 AM
DST,

Look. Today has been a really *****y day for me, and my reaction towards this has less to do with you than what's happening in RL for me.

I admit that the 'joke' was meant to be insulting and hurtful - that was my reaction for you using, in my opinion, the PL for non-PL related things. It is my understanding that the PL is to be used for character description/interactions. Saying that Nikki is an alt and not to praise her because of it does not, in my opinion, fit the intended use of the PL. Your remarks were not in-character.

I was not insulted (if ever anyone should try to insult me - good luck with that one!) as I am not an insecure person. However, I was upset because of it.

On a side note, I respect your character (I am quite fond of villains, actually) and apologize for the insult of my words. Because of that, I have removed the PL entry.

I am trying very hard here to make amends. Do what you will from this point, but just know that I would rather we put this energy towards Roleplaying instead of fighting out-of-character.

Take care,
Poe

[dst]

Pample, I never put bad words in her PL. I expressed an opinion. Good or bad, it is mine and I am willing to accept the consequences and the risks. I did not used foul words or insulted her.

I first talked to her, I did not rush to the forum to complain. I only acted after I received her answer. And I can make a distinction between a joke and an insult. This was NOT a joke. Hence I asked for it to be removed.



ps:she removed the entry and we sorted things out


LE:yes, that was her response

Edited February 9, 2010 by dst

[Fenrir Greycloth]

I honestly don't see the problem with either PL. One is accusing another of an alt, the other is making fun of her name.

Both of you grow up, and sthu.

If you want to see real discrimination, go back 60 years.

Racism hardly exists in North America anymore. Blacks live freely amongst whites. Asians have every opportunity that whites do. Brown people have a stigma about them because of 9/11. And that is mostly gone now.

I won't be ignorant enough to say that no one here has experienced real racism, but odds are, you haven't. There is a difference between Racism, and Stereotyping. Someone called you a N*****? Who cares. It's a word, and shouldn't have an effect over you. You were called a Jew? Are you Jewish? If so, why are you offended? If not, why are you offended unless you have some prejudice against Jews yourself. You wouldn't be offended if you didn't think it was something you didn't want to be.

Now, dst... You are a big girl. Are you really offended by that PL? I doubt it. You are once again Hunting people you consider below you for some stupid insult. Grow up. Both of you.

[Jubaris]

yes, the question was for you dst.

I don't understand what you find insulting in that PL? (not cause its you, just PL, "not worth of praise" is hardly a punishable offend)
are you just trying to draw some attention? (no clear reasons so just make a stupid one?) cause you surely wasn't expecting for something to happen to her cause of that PL remark?

and you're actually checking that huge PL of yours?



edit: wait, my bad, I didn't know that other part has special meaning. English isn't my native language and I am not familiar with all the... shortcuts

Edited February 9, 2010 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[dst]

Princ, READ the posts before writing. It was MY entry the one with the "not worth praising".
And since the issue was solved I will not reply to your comments anymore. If you have something to say about ME, you have Fenrir's topic. Which is still opened.

[Phantom Orchid]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='09 February 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1265744592' post='54177']

Racism hardly exists in North America anymore.
[/quote]

Please read the following article: [url="http://www.counterpunch.org/washington03252008.html"]Racism in America and Other Uncomfortable Facts[/url]

Your argument is unfounded,to put it politely.

MODS: I request this topic be closed now.

[Jubaris]

right, "dont bother praising this character" is what you said
the difference is indeed extraordinary.

I don't have anything to say about you, but on the topic, replying to your comments I don't see the problem there?

I have better things to do then to scam your downfall, cause you don't interest me (the reason why I was posting here is cause I felt you overreacted, didn't knew what that last thing meant)



Phantom overreacted, but this wouldn't happened if you left her alone.
It takes two for tango



[color="#4169E1"]I will do you a favor and answer here (I closed the topic as Phantom asked and I will not open it just to reply to you): I believe you replied just to increase your posts. You did not even read what I have wrote (and that is the absolute proof) since you mixed the jars. I believe you replied because you don't miss one opportunity to not agree with me or to say bad things about me (you do the same with Akasha). Problem is that you, same as Fenrir and few others don't worth a thing in my eyes thus me usually not bothering to reply.
As I said: I made you a favor by answering since answers are a privilege not a right. Be grateful for it.
dst[/color]

Edited February 9, 2010 by dst