Dst

[Fenrir Greycloth]

For as long as I can remember, dst has been just as much a nuisance to the general MD public as certain other individuals. The names Death Ray, and redneck come to mind. She may not be a nuisance in the same way, but she is still a nuisance none the less. I use the word nuisance as a kind substitute for other words which could be applied.

I would like to bring to light her constant hunting of "prey". Those she considers weak, stupid, or different. For no other apparent reason other than for her own self satisfaction that she is better than others. Whether or not she is, is up for debate. Not only does she hunt these "prey" she chomps down on their hind quarters until they can do nothing but limp on for months. If they are so lucky as to be able to walk after the initial attacks, she then sinks her teeth into their throats. For instance, her attacks on Shoeps. I do not care what he did, or why she attacks him constantly, but it is not acceptable to see these instances brought up every few weeks when she can't find another prey to attack.

She made it her life's ambition to see his game life ruined, and unfortunately, it appears as if she succeeded. That may or may not be the case, but the fact remains that her goal was to make Shoeps hated by the general population by making a personal conflict public because she could not win otherwise. Again, unacceptable. He is not the only one she constantly harasses. I have a list of people she makes regular attacks against, and it isn't right.

Her attitude towards anyone that does anything but tread lightly around her is deplorable. If you so much as argue with her, she will call you a coward. If you so much as win, watch out, for you will be put on her "black list".

I had recently posted something about her comments of calling an individual a coward on the forum. What happened? She deleted and removed the post because she found it "insulting". As well as threatened to have my warn level increased to the point that I will have a Moderator review everything I post.

I was also demoted from my job of being a Section Moderator for the CTC Section. The reason being? I closed topics that were inactive, and merging posts without notifying the poster when they were spamming their topic with bumps. Why is this a reason for demotion when I had been faithfully maintaining the most active section in the forum for nearly 8 months?

I believe dst is once again at hand. The night prior, I was having a heated debate with Dmik King(If forget exactly what the initial topic was about but towards the end Dmik King was claiming I was claiming the Holocaust did not happen... when I wasn't talking about it. Tried clarifying it but he would not listen because he was so angry.) and a few others.

Dst intervened and started her usual act of trying to prove herself superior to others. I, in no way, claim that I am better, nor worse. When her arguments were being questioned, she resorted to her childish behavior of name calling and dismissing my questions about her arguement as being "stupid".

And as an attempt to attack me once again, she decided that I was no longer fit to moderate the CTC Section. (I really don't care if I am the CTC Mod or not. It does not bother me.) So, dst and Chewett, notified me several days ago that I was demoted for reasons still unclear.

I am here to call dst out. Make a valid arguement. Do not spew insults and insinuations. Make valid arguements as to why you seem fit to do this.

Anyone else is welcome to comment on it, after dst has responded.

[Mods: Please notice that there isnt a single insulting word, swear word, and this is not a heated response to something she did recently. I let a few days pass before I decided to write this so I could write it without being rash.]

[Pipstickz]

Fenrir, I believe you're someone who believes in speaking the truth, as you see it, no matter what others do or say? Why should dst be any different? More importantly, what's to be gained from making this topic?

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Pip, I speak the truth so others may see the truth. To change if need be.

Dst does it out of personal vindication.

I want DST to stand up, and to change. For her to stop this public hunting of others.

No one should be subject to her harassment. It isn't right.

Edit: To those of you who are giving All of these negative remarks? And no reasons given? Do you disagree with what I am saying? Or are you just to immature to see reason?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Fenrir Greycloth

[Pipstickz]

Fenrir, that's like asking Chewett to stop posting on the forums, or asking Peace to stop being...Necro-y. It's what she does, and it's her choice, so unless you have a way to MAKE her do something (ie. give a valid reason other than "dst is mean to people she doesn't like"), you aren't going to get anywhere.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

It is a longshot, Pip. But I want her to change, because I am tired of her harassing people. It can't go on.

[Chewett]

I purposely didnt post on the forum that we demoted you because i would have thought that would have ruined your reputation more.

But if you dont mind i shall post why we removed you here and now.

Here is the story on that front. Then i shall comment on other such things.

This is directly copied from the post i made in the moderator section about fenrir. With no omissions, the comments made are my own initial ones and are only the first post. I will not post what moderators posted after for it was Chatham House Rules. They can post if they wish to.

[b]Closing topics without reason:[/b]

This is about one specific topic. I received a complaint from a user that Fenrir was moderating his topic unfairly. So i investigated and cleared the topic up. here is what i found in that topic.
After The user bumped the topic, where the last post was around a week old, he posted.
[quote]Please do not spam your own topic.

Use the edit function.[/quote]
Now i dont believe there was anything wrong, and it was just a plain bump. Considers some users bump topics daily...
Then after a different user asked the question and the person who complained replied he posted:
[quote]Stop spamming topics to get them active again. If people want any of your creatures, they will use the Search Function and find all the topics related to that criteria.

I am closing this topic, as it has no need to be open.[/quote]
I was uneasy with this on multiple levels.
Firstly he was merely answering a question, something about accepting silver or something (since it wasnt stated in the post)
Also, in this section, all the closed topics are finished, which would mean it would likely be forgotten.

Overall, i felt this was just fenrir being a little too officious. But after talking with the user it seems that Fenrir didnt like him because he didnt sell his shade to fenrir.
When i asked his if this was the case fenrir said it was most not and that he didnt want a "alt abusers shade" and then proceeded to rant about how the user was an alt abuser and it was against his morals.
Which made me believe that it was more likely he closed it because he didnt like the user.

[b]Reposting Someones WTB offer:[/b]

He reposted someones entire "WTB several crits" post, and even left the title of the post the same. More than that, he also then edited his post when the original user edited his.
To me this is something that is just plain rude and not something a Section Mod should do.

[b]Thread Hi-jacking:[/b]

[quote] I am offering any/all my creatures for the Hidden Creatures as well. If you don't like xxxxx offer. PM me. ;D[/quote]
As a moderator he has deleted such posts, but here he makes them, I removed it but i dont think that moderators should be hijacking threads when he deletes posts of other people that do that.

[b]MD Auction:[/b]

He removed a tonn of posts from it and then posted under it:
[quote]I have gone through the thread and deleted posts with no value(Ie offering to delete your stats for a creature), and I will continue to do so when I see other offers such as 1 silver for the Dark IV.[/quote]

While he has every right to do this, and was probably helping. We all know that any topics that Mur is organising should not be changed in any way.
Removing posts may also be considered an abuse of power as he may have removed posts from people he didnt like (i didnt check before remerging it)
Mur posted two posts above that he was unsure what to do, whether to delete low bids, or something else. From this i would have hoped he would have left it until Mur had decided.


As you can see there are the reasons we demoted him, amoung others such as general attutuide, And the investigation into his moderatorship started a couple days *BEFORE* the argument with Dmik in GGG. This investigation was made after several people complained how he was running the section. And i shall just quote one small section of the pm i sent to him.

"If you wish to see a collection of posts and comments on them, you can ask for them, for it is not fair to know what we have judged you on, But i will ofc remove the names, under Chatham House Rules."

If you want to discuss this. Then as i told you, there are many ways that you can discuss your demotion. But unless you want to make another topic, your demotion is nothing to do with your problem about dst.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Now lets look at your post[/b]

[quote]For as long as I can remember, dst has been just as much a nuisance to the general MD public as certain other individuals. The names Death Ray, and redneck come to mind. She may not be a nuisance in the same way, but she is still a nuisance none the less. I use the word nuisance as a kind substitute for other words which could be applied.[/quote]

What "nuisance" are you referring to? do you mean she does things you dont like? Please be more specific

[quote]I would like to bring to light her constant hunting of "prey". Those she considers weak, stupid, or different. For no other apparent reason other than for her own self satisfaction that she is better than others. Whether or not she is, is up for debate. Not only does she hunt these "prey" she chomps down on their hind quarters until they can do nothing but limp on for months. If they are so lucky as to be able to walk after the initial attacks, she then sinks her teeth into their throats. For instance, her attacks on Shoeps. I do not care what he did, or why she attacks him constantly, but it is not acceptable to see these instances brought up every few weeks when she can't find another prey to attack. [/quote]

How little you know. If you knew anything about this issue you would know that both of them are equally to blame. Dst is angry at shoeps so she berates him. shoeps is angry at dst so he swears at her. Please dont assume that because you dont know what happened, means it doesnt matter. You are taking it massively out of context.

And, when was the last time you have seen her bitching about Shoeps? Every couple of weeks? have you even been playing the last few months, Shoeps stopped playing so it seems a miracle that she has been attacking him.

[quote]She made it her life's ambition to see his game life ruined, and unfortunately, it appears as if she succeeded. That may or may not be the case, but the fact remains that her goal was to make Shoeps hated by the general population by making a personal conflict public because she could not win otherwise. Again, unacceptable. He is not the only one she constantly harasses. I have a list of people she makes regular attacks against, and it isn't right. [/quote]

May i see the list? will you publish it? And again, since you know nothing of Shoeps and dst do not make general comments that show your ignorance of that topic. Find another more apt argument that fits.

[quote]Her attitude towards anyone that does anything but tread lightly around her is deplorable. If you so much as argue with her, she will call you a coward. If you so much as win, watch out, for you will be put on her "black list". [/quote]

Now im getting worried, im probably going to be on her blacklist because i said its half her fault, you know what? i dont care because she is merely one person. I dislike a few poeple in MD, but since its a GAME they cannot do anything to hurt me. And if you are a insulted by her calling you a "coward" then she has won, and you are letting her have her saticfaction.

[quote]I had recently posted something about her comments of calling an individual a coward on the forum. What happened? She deleted and removed the post because she found it "insulting". As well as threatened to have my warn level increased to the point that I will have a Moderator review everything I post. [/quote]

oh, i see, you mean this post you made?

[quote]Speaking of cowardice, dst. You have the bravery to sit behind your computer in a warm comfy home and call others cowards. Have you ever been fired upon by others who wish you dead? How about fight for your life while several people decide whether or not they should kill you?

You are nothing but a cynical woman. The is another word for it, but I already know you will ban me or something out of anger(like usual). Deal with your problems, stop projecting them onto others.

Oh, and You would not have the testicular fortitude to do any of those things, let alone say that to my face. So basically, keep your yap shut for once.[/quote]

It was made on the Topic of what is "sexually explicit". And your post was rude and offtopic. that is why it was deleted. And again, if you had an issue with that, you could have brought it up. Not kept it as "blackmail" material as it seems you have now.

[quote]I believe dst is once again at hand. The night prior, I was having a heated debate with Dmik King(If forget exactly what the initial topic was about but towards the end Dmik King was claiming I was claiming the Holocaust did not happen... when I wasn't talking about it. Tried clarifying it but he would not listen because he was so angry.) and a few others. [/quote]

i was there fenrir and your ideas were clouded, and it did seem like you were claiming that, So i am not surprised that Dmik thought you were saying that. Although i hoped you weren't.

[quote]And as an attempt to attack me once again, she decided that I was no longer fit to moderate the CTC Section. (I really don't care if I am the CTC Mod or not. It does not bother me.) So, dst and Chewett, notified me several days ago that I was demoted for reasons still unclear. [/quote]

As i have said in the pm i sent you, and i will publish it if you wish to portray that i was not crystal clear that if you didnt understand i could send you infomation if you required it. I also did send you what you asked for, but you didnt even bother replying.

again, i will requote part of the pm i sent you

[b]"If you wish to see a collection of posts and comments on them, you can ask for them, for it is not fair to know what we have judged you on, But i will ofc remove the names, under Chatham House Rules."[/b]

You did not ask for them, so if you were unclear then it was your fautl for not asking for them

[quote]I am here to call dst out. Make a valid arguement. Do not spew insults and insinuations. Make valid arguements as to why you seem fit to do this.

Anyone else is welcome to comment on it, after dst has responded.

[Mods: Please notice that there isnt a single insulting word, swear word, and this is not a heated response to something she did recently. I let a few days pass before I decided to write this so I could write it without being rash.][/quote]

And as i said in my pm to you, You can post what you want as long as it complies with the rules, However the lies you have posted need massive corrections.

[No one]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='13 January 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1263335588' post='52585']
For instance, her attacks on Shoeps. I do not care what he did, or why she attacks him constantly, but it is not acceptable to see these instances brought up every few weeks when she can't find another prey to attack.
[/quote]
You should not interfere in a conflict if you don't know the reasons. On this conflict (as you are/were a moderator) you should already know a few things but ... you lack that intel. Please read more on this theme and then drop it as it is not your problem.

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='13 January 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1263335588' post='52585']

She made it her life's ambition to see his game life ruined, and unfortunately, it appears as if she succeeded. That may or may not be the case, but the fact remains that her goal was to make Shoeps hated by the general population by making a personal conflict public because she could not win otherwise. Again, unacceptable. He is not the only one she constantly harasses. I have a list of people she makes regular attacks against, and it isn't right.
[/quote]
Congratulation, you finally found the RP role for her: huntress. Lets admit it: she is GOOOD at hunting, but she still has some problems with the kill.

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='13 January 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1263335588' post='52585']

Her attitude towards anyone that does anything but tread lightly around her is deplorable. If you so much as argue with her, she will call you a coward. If you so much as win, watch out, for you will be put on her "black list".

I had recently posted something about her comments of calling an individual a coward on the forum. What happened? She deleted and removed the post because she found it "insulting". As well as threatened to have my warn level increased to the point that I will have a Moderator review everything I post.

I was also demoted from my job of being a Section Moderator for the CTC Section. The reason being? I closed topics that were inactive, and merging posts without notifying the poster when they were spamming their topic with bumps. Why is this a reason for demotion when I had been faithfully maintaining the most active section in the forum for nearly 8 months?
[/quote]

I guess that dst has an activity of more then 8 months and was more active then most moderators.
As for the reasons of what she did ... you should consult the rules of MD mods and also with Chewett (that I know is very impartial). Posting this on a topic ... in my opinion ... shows your luck of judgement. (sorry)


[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='13 January 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1263335588' post='52585']
I believe dst is once again at hand. The night prior, I was having a heated debate with Dmik King(If forget exactly what the initial topic was about but towards the end Dmik King was claiming I was claiming the Holocaust did not happen... when I wasn't talking about it. Tried clarifying it but he would not listen because he was so angry.) and a few others.

Dst intervened and started her usual act of trying to prove herself superior to others. I, in no way, claim that I am better, nor worse. When her arguments were being questioned, she resorted to her childish behavior of name calling and dismissing my questions about her arguement as being "stupid".
[/quote]
Fenrir, i'm sorry that none of your so called "friends" told you already: first impressions die hard and you did a hell of an impression as being ... (oh well) "stupid". Its your fault and yours alone.
As a suggestion: try to be more calm and to reread you posts twice and to pospone them for next day to see if they are still appropriate or not.

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='13 January 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1263335588' post='52585']

And as an attempt to attack me once again, she decided that I was no longer fit to moderate the CTC Section. (I really don't care if I am the CTC Mod or not. It does not bother me.) So, dst and Chewett, notified me several days ago that I was demoted for reasons still unclear.

I am here to call dst out. Make a valid arguement. Do not spew insults and insinuations. Make valid arguements as to why you seem fit to do this.
[/quote]
Fenrir, from my experience, any personal problem must be solved in person (or at least tried) then you can escalate but still keep it private.

Anyway, I like your post, if there will be a "most amusing topic" I will vote for you.

If I offended you ... I'm sorry. Otherwise ... i'm in a good mood today (that is why I reply).


If I offended someone ... please tell me and I will apologize.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

[quote name='Chewett' date='12 January 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1263337387' post='52595']
I purposely didnt post on the forum that we demoted you because i would have thought that would have ruined your reputation more.

But if you dont mind i shall post why we removed you here and now.

Here is the story on that front. Then i shall comment on other such things.

This is directly copied from the post i made in the moderator section about fenrir. With no omissions, the comments made are my own initial ones and are only the first post. I will not post what moderators posted after for it was Chatham House Rules. They can post if they wish to.

[b]Closing topics without reason:[/b]

This is about one specific topic. I received a complaint from a user that Fenrir was moderating his topic unfairly. So i investigated and cleared the topic up. here is what i found in that topic.
After The user bumped the topic, where the last post was around a week old, he posted.

Now i dont believe there was anything wrong, and it was just a plain bump. Considers some users bump topics daily...
Then after a different user asked the question and the person who complained replied he posted:
[u]
[Bumps are just plain spam! Something to which you are so adamantly against. They do not do anything besides reactivate dead topics. If anyone wants your creatures, they can use the search function to find it. Should I bump topics just so people can read them over again?][/u]

I was uneasy with this on multiple levels.
Firstly he was merely answering a question, something about accepting silver or something (since it wasnt stated in the post)
Also, in this section, all the closed topics are finished, which would mean it would likely be forgotten.

Overall, i felt this was just fenrir being a little too officious. But after talking with the user it seems that Fenrir didnt like him because he didnt sell his shade to fenrir.

When i asked his if this was the case fenrir said it was most not and that he didnt want a "alt abusers shade" and then proceeded to rant about how the user was an alt abuser and it was against his morals.
Which made me believe that it was more likely he closed it because he didnt like the user.
[u]
[I like him perfectly fine. I was not annoyed that he wouldn't sell it to me, because my offer was to low compared to Eiggers. I did not "rant" about him abusing alts. Infact, I think I made only one comment about it.][/u]

[b]Reposting Someones WTB offer:[/b]

He reposted someones entire "WTB several crits" post, and even left the title of the post the same. More than that, he also then edited his post when the original user edited his.
To me this is something that is just plain rude and not something a Section Mod should do.

[What? Are you serious? Because I was to lazy to rewrite absolutely everything he wrote? And because my post saying that I wanted the same creatures and to pm me if they didnt like their offer? How is that wrong?]

[b]Thread Hi-jacking:[/b]


As a moderator he has deleted such posts, but here he makes them, I removed it but i dont think that moderators should be hijacking threads when he deletes posts of other people that do that.

[That is another one of your lies with no proof. I rarely ever deleted posts unless it was just spam.]
[u]
[If you wish so badly to have your Mods to have a squeeky clean rep, and not do anything questionable, why is dst still a Mod? She does nothing but attack people.][/u]

[b]MD Auction:[/b]

He removed a tonn of posts from it and then posted under it:


While he has every right to do this, and was probably helping. We all know that any topics that Mur is organising should not be changed in any way. [Was only trying to help keep it clean. I had misread the post Mur later made.]
Removing posts may also be considered an abuse of power as he may have removed posts from people he didnt like (i didnt check before remerging it) [u][That is not true. In anyway. Infact, most of those people I do not know, let alone dislike.][/u]
Mur posted two posts above that he was unsure what to do, whether to delete low bids, or something else. From this i would have hoped he would have left it until Mur had decided. [u][If you look at the time stamps of my deletes, you would see that they occured during/before/ or immediately after.][/u]


As you can see there are the reasons we demoted him, amoung others such as general attutuide[My attitude is a problem...? Again... please look at dst. ], And the investigation into his moderatorship started a couple days *BEFORE* the argument with Dmik in GGG. This investigation was made after several people complained how he was running the section. And i shall just quote one small section of the pm i sent to him.

"If you wish to see a collection of posts and comments on them, you can ask for them, for it is not fair to know what we have judged you on, But i will ofc remove the names, under Chatham House Rules." [u][Sorry, but this was poorly worded and I took it to mean that you would not tell me what they said.][/u]

If you want to discuss this. Then as i told you, there are many ways that you can discuss your demotion. But unless you want to make another topic, your demotion is nothing to do with your problem about dst.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Now lets look at your post[/b]



What "nuisance" are you referring to? do you mean she does things you dont like? Please be more specific





How little you know. If you knew anything about this issue you would know that both of them are equally to blame. Dst is angry at shoeps so she berates him. shoeps is angry at dst so he swears at her. Please dont assume that because you dont know what happened, means it doesnt matter. You are taking it massively out of context.

And, when was the last time you have seen her bitching about Shoeps? Every couple of weeks? have you even been playing the last few months, Shoeps stopped playing so it seems a miracle that she has been attacking him.
[u]
[Try looking at todays Player Logs. Enough said.][/u]

May i see the list? will you publish it? And again, since you know nothing of Shoeps and dst do not make general comments that show your ignorance of that topic. Find another more apt argument that fits. [u][I actually know quite a bit. As I have had several lengthy chats with Sheops about it.][/u]



Now im getting worried, im probably going to be on her blacklist because i said its half her fault, you know what? i dont care because she is merely one person. I dislike a few poeple in MD, but since its a GAME they cannot do anything to hurt me. And if you are a insulted by her calling you a "coward" then she has won, and you are letting her have her saticfaction. [u][I was being sarcastic, I am sure you can realise that. I don't care if she called me a coward. Its the fact that she has no idea what Bravery is that annoys me.][/u]



oh, i see, you mean this post you made? [u][Yes, exactly.][/u]



It was made on the Topic of what is "sexually explicit". And your post was rude and offtopic. that is why it was deleted. And again, if you had an issue with that, you could have brought it up. Not kept it as "blackmail" material as it seems you have now. [u][How can I bring things up against one of your Mods, when you turn a blind eye to absolutely EVERYTHING THEY DO.] [/u]



i was there fenrir and your ideas were clouded, and it did seem like you were claiming that, So i am not surprised that Dmik thought you were saying that. Although i hoped you weren't. [u][Not even close. Your memory must be going. We weren't even talking about how the holocaust did or did not happen. We were on a TOTALLY DIFFERENT topic. I commented on Dmiks rude outburst about how he would kick my ass if I even claimed that it didn't happen.][/u]



As i have said in the pm i sent you, and i will publish it if you wish to portray that i was not crystal clear that if you didnt understand i could send you infomation if you required it. I also did send you what you asked for, but you didnt even bother replying.

again, i will requote part of the pm i sent you

[b]"If you wish to see a collection of posts and comments on them, you can ask for them, for it is not fair to know what we have judged you on, But i will ofc remove the names, under Chatham House Rules."[/b]

You did not ask for them, so if you were unclear then it was your fautl for not asking for them. [u][Because I realised it would not get anywhere. You had your mind set and you would not see the errors of you ways. Everytime I try convincing you of something, you always dismiss it. You made a mistake.][/u]



And as i said in my pm to you, You can post what you want as long as it complies with the rules, However the lies you have posted need massive corrections.
[/quote]

[Pipstickz]

You keep bringing up your mod demotion, so I'll try and clarify: People complained about you, you're the only one complaining about dst (as far as I know, it's just a guess)

Second, sarcasm in writing just doesn't work.

Third, I believe Chewett means that Shoeps doesn't play as actively as before, or maybe just that he isn't GM anymore.

[No one]

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='13 January 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1263336982' post='52592']
No one should be subject to her harassment. It isn't right.
[/quote]
Damn right it is not right. What did I do ?

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth']
May i see the list? will you publish it? And again, since you know nothing of Shoeps and dst do not make general comments that show your ignorance of that topic. Find another more apt argument that fits. [I actually know quite a bit. As I have had several lengthy chats with Sheops about it.]
[/quote]
First: I will continue with my advices to you even if you don't pay attention: [b]every story has at least 2 true versions.[/b]
Second: you have been warned 2 times on not picking on this subject, don't be stupid to continue on it. You don't know the whole story between dst and Shoeps.

Anyway, nice quoting

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Pip, I am the only one with enough nerve to bring this up. There are many who are subject to her attacks. Whether or not they wish to stand up to her, is not up to me. But as I have posted this, I was contacted by four people saying that they agree with me. Another saying that she needs to be pushed back down to Earth.

And chewett, this is not a bitching topic. I am trying to address something I see a problem with, in a calm manner. You are the one that is making it out to be so.

No one is correct in assuming that there is always two halves. And I realise that. I know that what I was told was subject to being distorted.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Fenrir Greycloth

[Pipstickz]

If there are so many people that are "suffering" because of dst, why aren't they posting here? More importantly, what can dst actually do to you, or anyone? MD is a game on the internet, one of many in fact. It's also one that allows you to make more than one character if you wish to escape into anonymity.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Pip, this topic has been active less then 40 minutes.

As for them remaining anonomyous.... Why do you think that is? I realise that there will be repercussions to this for a long time. But, like anything else people don't like hearing but is true, it needs to be said.

[Grido]

[quote][Bumps are just plain spam! Something to which you are so adamantly against. They do not do anything besides reactivate dead topics. If anyone wants your creatures, they can use the search function to find it. Should I bump topics just so people can read them over again?][/quote]
No, they're not, due to the activity of the Market section of the forum active trades are lost easily, i explained this clearly to you on yim if you remember, and i believe you conceeded the point, so i dont know why you bring this up again.
[quote][Was only trying to help keep it clean. I had misread the post Mur later made.][If you look at the time stamps of my deletes, you would see that they occured during/before/ or immediately after.][/quote]
Any threads Mur makes should not be messed with at all unless he requests it, no request was made at any point, and you shouldve known not to interfere with it.
[quote][How can I bring things up against one of your Mods, when you turn a blind eye to absolutely EVERYTHING THEY DO.][/quote]
This is plainly untrue, as far as my experience goes, Chewett takes any complaints against any of the moderators seriously, if someone complains about an action done then he does not turn a blind eye, quite the opposite.
[quote][Because I realised it would not get anywhere. You had your mind set and you would not see the errors of you ways. Everytime I try convincing you of something, you always dismiss it. You made a mistake.][/quote]
No idea what you're talking about with error of his ways or whatever. If you thought it would not get you anywhere, why bring up the point on this thread, what does that gain? It only serves to put what you did into the public light.

[ladytwin]

i hate to say it but it seems like dst is al the time braging and harsing others i hate to point fingers but she has a hard spine dont know if it get a cross here it is a dutch thing i gues but it means i dont know how to translate it
*smiles*
but she kicks some legs and i feel it hurting the game in forum and in game when she is around everybody shouts up and dont talk because dst is here is that what she want she got it but is it fun no

[Fenrir Greycloth]

Grido, I understood your point of view. That is what I conceeded, not that bumps are spam.

I had misread what he said about editing the offers that don't count.

And how often has he actually acted upon it? I am the only one he has so far demoted. For some stupid reasons. I made mistakes, I should have been given a chance to respond to them.

All of these events happened within the last ten days. When was I given the opportunity to change? or Learn?

That is between me and him, which is why you don't understand.

[Lazarus]

Dst is a rude, annoying, evil, wicked witch who enjoys torturing innocent people, don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against her, in fact I like her for being her natural self and all she has done, specially that Alliance thing, you just have to live with it if you still want to continue your saga on MD, because I think her twisted mind won't be affected by this little topic you've made. You're just further humiliating yourself.

[Fenrir Greycloth]

I appreciate the comment Laz, but I am not humiliated.

I especially enjoy dst reading this topic, and not saying a word.

[Chewett]

[b]As i have said in my previous post. This post has nothing to do with your demotion. This post is about your issues with dst.[/b]

The demotion was a whole moderator thing, we all voted and all came to the same descision, so if you have an issue with that, then you can make another topic and complain against me.

dst was merely one person who areed with demoting you, but there were 3 other people who also agreed with it. So as i told you in your pm, there are many different ways you can complain with your demotion and i will arrange talking to mur directly if you really want to. But dont blame dst for something like this.

As i said in my PM to you fenrir, You can open a topic about how unfair I am, because this has more to do with me than dst. You are merely using something that she was part of, and blaming her entirely for it.

[b]So i will not comment anything to do with your forum demotion, for that has nothing to do with this, and i ask no one else to comment on such things, i have given fenrir the chance to complain, and have provided him with things he asked for, but it seems he wants to blame dst for something WE decided on.[/b]

Edited January 13, 2010 by Chewett

[Firsanthalas]

If I may be so bold I'd like to make an observation and a suggestion.
In the real world, employees generally have reviews and warnings before dismissal. I understand that moderating a forum is a bit different, but if someone is not doing things the way you feel that they should, would it not be better to sit down with them and discuss where they are going wrong? Then they have a chance to try and avoid these issues and improve on their work. This would also cover you somewhat in that if they person just continues to act as they were, or indeed gets worse, you can feel safe in the knowledge that you gave them an opportunity to improve and that its really their own fault when you have to show them the door. Setting aside a person doing things based out of personal grudges or malice, people do make mistakes, especially someone trying their hand at something for the first time. It would be a real shame for someone to be removed from a post purely due to lack of guidance from more senior people.

Note: you refers to mods in general, not one specific individual.
Also, this is just something that seems to be the case from what has been presented here. If Fenrir (in this instance) had been given a warning or review, then Iapologise for sticking my oar in, but it has not been mentioned in the thread by anyone. I'm also not saying that Fenrir's dismissal was right or wrong, merely pointing out the seeming lack of any system of review or warning.

[Orlando Gardiner]

oke, without reading all of this there are a few things I wish to say:

WHY FOR MY MOTHERS SAKE are all fenrir's post being voted negative? I mean, he might indeed be wrong, and he might indeed be seeing it all wrong. but that doesen't make it a bad reply, that is not the reason it is there for, it's for people who spamm, say bad things, harrass or so.., not just because you like someone less, and start voting negative on him. Same problem goes for me, a few people don't like me and they start voting negative.

and offcourse, I am not certain, but it very much looks like this is done by a few(3 at most or so) people who dislike him most.., and I am not pointing any fingers.

as for the reply that chewett made, these are indeed good points, power abuse is one of the most treacherous things that can be done and is not permitted, but on the other side: have you ever been warned about this? have they told you you where wrong on it and gave you advice on how to do what, and what not?

for me I most certainly believe that people who work together, as the moderators shoulden't let their fellow mod's down, but on this subject it looks like fenrir has been dropped, and for which reason I don't know. But I know chewett, and I guess it has been a good reason, with good prove. I just wish this to be publiced to now, since everyone is starting to discuss this now.

or is it possible that the moderator's, and fenrir open up a own location, start discussing until everything is clear for everyone, pur rational, no offending and no pointing fingers. as far as i am concered no one is wrong, just lacks the knowledge and the insight. it would do much more good than discuss it here, because all happens now it that you all( not concerned for myself:P) will get a bad name, and not in as 'he's bad, more other ways..


well, I hope I diden't offend anyone, tried to reply as rational as I can be, if any objections are made to what I said, or if I lack the insight, just tell me and I will rewrite it:)

[Burns]

Had you bothered to read the topic, you'd see that Chewie posted all he had to say in post #6 -.-

And, no, neg rep is not a thing to give to foul language, that's what earn people warnings and mod previews, negative reputation is what you give you stupid posts, incoherent posts, useless posts, and posts that state things you don't agree with^^

apart from that, i think that dst is an evil person who hunts people just for her personal fun, but she's doing it damn good

her prey, on the other hand, is usually doing anything they can, and nothing really good, just like this topic, which turns around a demotion instead of dst's evilness in the end...

[phantasm]

i agree burns. DST is a "explicit hunter" as I call it, and while she may have a negative impact on people coming into MD, I love her personality and rambunctiousness. Though I think at times she could direct it in a better fashion, she has for long and long been playing her role, and as you mentioned really well.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Firsanthalas' date='13 January 2010 - 10:41 AM' timestamp='1263379309' post='52638']
If I may be so bold I'd like to make an observation and a suggestion. In the real world, employees generally have reviews and warnings before dismissal. I understand that moderating a forum is a bit different, but if someone is not doing things the way you feel that they should, would it not be better to sit down with them and discuss where they are going wrong?
[/quote]

Each one of these points we talked to him about it. on either yim, ingame or via forum pm.

For example, one such one i hadnt deleted. And this is what i sent to him.

[quote]Fenrir i dont think you should have closed the topic.

And i have unclosed it for a few reasons,
One was that in that section closed topics are finished.

Secondarily, xxxxx was not bumping the post, merely replying to a person that posted an offer and didnt pm it.

And Third, xxxxx complained and he thinks that you did this because he didnt send you a shade, and also he claimed you spammed him and called him an alt abuser, but ofc that is just gossip.

You cannot let your opinions about a person affect moderation.

If you wish to argue how it should have been closed you can reply to this and we can discuss it.
Chewett
[/quote]

This pm was is related to "closing topics with reason" the second one on that point.

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='13 January 2010 - 01:36 PM' timestamp='1263389811' post='52647']
but on the other side: have you ever been warned about this? have they told you you where wrong on it and gave you advice on how to do what, and what not?for me I most certainly believe that people who work together, as the moderators shoulden't let their fellow mod's down, but on this subject it looks like fenrir has been dropped, and for which reason I don't know. But I know chewett, and I guess it has been a good reason, with good prove. I just wish this to be publiced to now, since everyone is starting to discuss this now. or is it possible that the moderator's, and fenrir open up a own location, start discussing until everything is clear for everyone, pur rational, no offending and no pointing fingers. as far as i am concered no one is wrong, just lacks the knowledge and the insight. it would do much more good than discuss it here, because all happens now it that you all( not concerned for myself:P) will get a bad name, and not in as 'he's bad, more other ways..well, I hope I diden't offend anyone, tried to reply as rational as I can be, if any objections are made to what I said, or if I lack the insight, just tell me and I will rewrite it:)
[/quote]

As burns said, on post 6 i have posted my reasons, and above i have posted an example of the warnings that have been give.

Please read what is being posted before posting since im not going to reiterate what i have already said.

And as i have said before, fenrir was given a chance to complain, he asked me for a few things and i have provided them. I also gave him options to complain agaist what we did, I said he could talk to any moderator about it, or talk to mur (and i offered to ask mur to talk to him if he wished), or even take me to "court" (remember the thing mur talked about ages ago) if he wanted.

All of the issues currently i see fenrir complaining about are nothing to do with dst. They are to do with me and his demotion. If you want to talk about that more. open a new topic. Because this has nothign to do with how dst is a cruel witch

Edited January 13, 2010 by Chewett

[Firsanthalas]

In reponse to Chewy.
As I said it was just based on my limited knowledge of the situation. I guess that given you had spoken to him with regard to matters it should not really have come as a surprise at all. Anyway, the question has now been asked and answered in case anyone else had been thinking something similar, so ye can't be faulted on that front so.