I had my Golemus pass papers for sale on he forum (For those of you that dont know)
And I got a offer from Granos saying he would give me a GG Drach with 251 age for it. (Anonymously)
I then traded my pass papers to him, but didnt get anything back and he seems to be ignoring me now, both on the forum and in game.
If he dont wanna give me a GG drach I would at least like my papers back.

Edited February 26, 201016 yr by Shadowseeker

Truthfully? Serves you right.

Those papers belong to the Golemus citizens. Not to anyone who can buy them.

Whait a few more days, what's his activity, don't accuse him yet, that's not serving..

[quote name='Fenrir Greycloth' date='24 February 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1267043882' post='55119']
Truthfully? Serves you right.

Those papers belong to the Golemus citizens. Not to anyone who can buy them.
[/quote]

I dont really see why it serves me right, I have never said I wouldnt sell it to golemus, they have had the exact same chance as any other, of course I could have waited to see if golemus would offer more than a drach, but really a drach was all that I find it worth.
So going over that would make it only possible for the ones who has the most money in the game, thats the reason I stopped it there.

And I just say I want it back or my drach, because I believe that if a trade is agreed on it should be hold.

And I couldnt find anything negative about Granos, so I decided to trust him after he sent me the first part of the ctc to be sure that he had the drach.

The paper was the most valuable item I have ever had, so for it being scammed from me and then geting told it serves me right just seems plain wrong.

If I shouldnt trade it I could also just have kept it, being an item hoarder instead.

[quote name='Orlando Gardiner' date='24 February 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1267045513' post='55123']
Whait a few more days, what's his activity, don't accuse him yet, that's not serving..
[/quote]

If it wasnt because I could see him being active on he forum, and he fact that he wasnt online a little after the trade and then came online again in game, Of course I greatly apologize if there is another reason, but it just seems weird he moves after I traded him it, and i dont get a reply or my ctc.

Have tried messaging him both on forum and in game, and his acivety changed on forum after I sent him a message there.
But if you can find him please say to him that he should send me a message explaining, because I cant seem to find him even though he is online.

[quote name='JacoAnd' date='24 February 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1267046159' post='55124']
I dont really see why it serves me right, I have never said I wouldnt sell it to golemus, they have had the exact same chance as any other, of course I could have waited to see if golemus would offer more than a drach, but really a drach was all that I find it worth.
So going over that would make it only possible for the ones who has the most money in the game, thats the reason I stopped it there.

And I just say I want it back or my drach, because I believe that if a trade is agreed on it should be hold.

And I couldnt find anything negative about Granos, so I decided to trust him after he sent me the first part of the ctc to be sure that he had the drach.

The paper was the most valuable item I have ever had, so for it being scammed from me and then geting told it serves me right just seems plain wrong.

If I shouldnt trade it I could also just have kept it, being an item hoarder instead.
[/quote]

I am confused. In your post selling the item you said you had a bid for 7 gold. You can buy a lot more than a single drach with that!

Not knowing what Granos and you discussed, I can't speak about the outcome of the trade (whether it is over yet or not) but one thing which might help is to look at the 2009 year awards. Granos was nominated (and I think won) the villian of the year award, but it was my impression that he usually targeted people who had done something wrong to bring them to his attention.

So can I ask a question, did you really have a bid of 7 gold for your GG papers? (I have to admit I was somewhat dubious about that when I read it.)

Cutler

[quote name='cutler121' date='24 February 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1267047126' post='55126']
I am confused. In your post selling the item you said you had a bid for 7 gold. You can buy a lot more than a single drach with that!

Not knowing what Granos and you discussed, I can't speak about the outcome of the trade (whether it is over yet or not) but one thing which might help is to look at the 2009 year awards. Granos was nominated (and I think won) the villian of the year award, but it was my impression that he usually targeted people who had done something wrong to bring them to his attention.

So can I ask a question, did you really have a bid of 7 gold for your GG papers? (I have to admit I was somewhat dubious about that when I read it.)

Cutler
[/quote]

The Bid was real, But he wanted to stay anonymous because of obvius reasons when you know them.
I will ask if I am allowed to say who he is if you relly wanna know. But every offer was real.

And I really believed that a GG drach was worth more han 7 gold coins (or at leas around that) but even though I might have gotten less than the 7 gold of worht I would also have had to try to ge one GG drach, and that doesnt seem easy to find someone that will sell them..

Edit: Sorry for he places that misses a "t" my t button is broken.

Edited February 24, 201016 yr by JacoAnd

There's 7 gold..which don't make a drach.

7*15=105 silver if my maths isn't wrong, and trust me, even for that price drachs aren't available.

This is a bit offtopic, I am curious what else will be said here.

Some more info to convince that I am scammed is that the last time he read the messages I sent in forum was at "Last Read: Today, 10:01 PM" (So it says)

And the last message I sent to him was at: Sent Today, 08:12 PM
So he has seen my messages but still ignores it.

But is it seriusly okey to scam unknowing people if you make it part of your role. I have never really had any contact to Granos and as far as I know never done anything to him.
If it is okey, I am pretty sure I will never trust anyone enough to trade anything anymore, and I will lose most of the respect I have to this game.

Edit: Normally scammers gets banned in games... I know that a ban is not easily given out, but to allow it to happen is just wrong. (Not saying he should get banned.)

Edited February 24, 201016 yr by JacoAnd

If I remember right, you got the pass papers for free, did you not? Just putting that out there.

[quote name='Pipstickz' date='24 February 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1267051420' post='55132']
If I remember right, you got the pass papers for free, did you not? Just putting that out there.
[/quote]
Lol... Everything (Almost at least) is free when Mur gives it out...
But that doesnt make it less valuable...

[quote name='JacoAnd' date='24 February 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1267051586' post='55133']
Lol... Everything (Almost at least) is free when Mur gives it out...
But that doesnt make it less valuable...
[/quote]

Exactly. And for that reason is why people like you who make profit out of items that can be used to support a new member of the alliance who has just started to experience the game. And we give them out from free.

Ever since I had been given three papers I gave one to Shantu and one to Lazarus, both for fee and I kept one for myself, to pass it to Necrovion citizens so as to see the land and do whatever they need to do in there. Again for free.

I see items as a mean to help someone in his role, in the creation of an item they wish for to leave their mark in MD and there are, not only, nowhere they are sold and even if they are sold, the price is extremely high for a person that has not the ways and the people to help him get it. Heck, I would give my personal items to someone who could find use and not profit to them. And I would give them for free. Because items are too over-priced when they shouldn't be.

Now, to return back on topic. I would like for you to wait for Granos' reply. If something has happened to him and he can not be present to defend(?) himself, then do not haste to judge him. Knowing Granos I have come to learn that when it comes to deals, he always keeps them. He may be a villan, a manipulator, a void-hugger and many others, but thief or liar (was trying to think of better words but I lost my dictionary) is something I want to believe he is not. But then again... it's Granos!

[quote name='DarkPriestess' date='25 February 2010 - 12:50 AM' timestamp='1267055400' post='55137']
Exactly. And for that reason is why people like you who make profit out of items that can be used to support a new member of the alliance who has just started to experience the game. And we give them out from free.

Ever since I had been given three papers I gave one to Shantu and one to Lazarus, both for fee and I kept one for myself, to pass it to Necrovion citizens so as to see the land and do whatever they need to do in there. Again for free.

I see items as a mean to help someone in his role, in the creation of an item they wish for to leave their mark in MD and there are, not only, nowhere they are sold and even if they are sold, the price is extremely high for a person that has not the ways and the people to help him get it. Heck, I would give my personal items to someone who could find use and not profit to them. And I would give them for free. Because items are too over-priced when they shouldn't be.

Now, to return back on topic. I would like for you to wait for Granos' reply. If something has happened to him and he can not be present to defend(?) himself, then do not haste to judge him. Knowing Granos I have come to learn that when it comes to deals, he always keeps them. He may be a villan, a manipulator, a void-hugger and many others, but thief or liar (was trying to think of better words but I lost my dictionary) is something I want to believe he is not. But then again... it's Granos!
[/quote]

I can fully understand what you mean, and I can understand giving away items for free if it fits the role, but giving that I have been playing over 300 days, and this is was the first item I have ever gotten from Mur.
My first tought was to keep it forever but due to the fact that I really couldnt find a use for it made me realise that it would be stupid to hoard it.

But when I kept it and declined every offer I got offers around 150 silver (Cannot remember the exact amount) And knowing I could get that I would really not give it away for free...

And honestly who would say no to a chance to get a drach when you are going for having 1 of each creaure. and the prices for creatures keeps rising, so mostly veterans have a chance to get those rare creaures. So why not use the litle luck I got.

I was perfecly ready of be a enemy of golemus for selling it, but that is just a part of my role, I actually hoped that someone from loreroot or necrovion bught it to make some reactions against me.

But really giving away such iems... I just couldnt do it... How would you feel giving away your first drach you ever got a little while after you go it...
If you would feel good then give me a drach and I will never complain again. Not everyone have the items and creatures to just be on a gift spree when they get something.

Was there any loopholes in your conversations? Time limits saying he had an hour to comply? It sounds like Granos is just trying to get you nervous/antsy and you know what, it worked. I think it gives him pleasure to see others squirm. Quite funny really. I'd say don't sweat it, and give him a couple days to act upon the trade.

I have faith in Granos in this one. Personally, I see Granos a bit like Khal in personality. A dark character capable of deceit and manipulation, yet a respectable person. I might sound like repeating what has been said before, but I would suggest waiting for a bit.

Touching words, but it was nothing more than pure deceit, although through word play there is a loop hole but I would rather see what there is to suffer.

Do your worst.

[quote name='Granos' date='25 February 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1267068987' post='55157']
Touching words, but it was nothing more than pure deceit, although through word play there is a loop hole but I would rather see what there is to suffer.

Do your worst.
[/quote]

Errr... does this mean that Granos actually admitted to scamming?

Yes, it does. And honestly... nothing will happen to him either. Granos is a villain. Jacoand should have known that. He is over 300 days old.

Edited February 25, 201016 yr by Fenrir Greycloth

Granos plays a delicious villain.

He is so good, he is even respected as a villain.

But his character has always been done in the realm with RP, but to do this scam in a Forum, it is possible he may have crossed the line.

Granos cannot always say that he is a villain and gets away with everything. There must be a boundary. Does his character allows for scamming? If I am to scam another player, can i say that it is coz my character has been seduced by the dark side? Or maybe I can say my character is now playing a lying thiefing scoundrel... would that be allowed?

Can you imagine Granos knocking on yr door and saying "Give me all yr money", and you cannot report it coz he is Granos!

Edited February 25, 201016 yr by CrazyMike

[quote name='CrazyMike' date='25 February 2010 - 07:10 AM' timestamp='1267081847' post='55164']
Granos plays a delicious villain.

He is so good, he is even respected as a villain.

Can you imagine Granos knocking on yr door and saying "Give me all yr money", and you cannot report it coz he is Granos!
[/quote]

Wow, I just imagined it !

There was only one Nietzsche and some say there could ever only be one.

Granos may just fall into this category, luckily there are like 8 thousand miles between where he is and where I am.

Asia is safe at present.


Cutler

[quote name='CrazyMike' date='25 February 2010 - 02:10 AM' timestamp='1267081847' post='55164']
Granos plays a delicious villain.

He is so good, he is even respected as a villain.

But his character has always been done in the realm with RP, but to do this scam in a Forum, it is possible he may have crossed the line.

Granos cannot always say that he is a villain and gets away with everything. There must be a boundary. Does his character allows for scamming? If I am to scam another player, can i say that it is coz my character has been seduced by the dark side? Or maybe I can say my character is now playing a lying thiefing scoundrel... would that be allowed?

Can you imagine Granos knocking on yr door and saying "Give me all yr money", and you cannot report it coz he is Granos!
[/quote]

What he did here is really what anyone can do. Jaco should have been more careful when dealing with such a shady character as Granos. That said, I too am curious as to what Jaco will do now against Granos. Perhaps trade embargo, perhaps attacking him in a way that will hurt him? Perhaps beg? Or even perhaps do nothing and cut his losses. Or something totally unusual/amusing that Granos will follow through with the trade. Who knows. And if Granos ever came to my house, I'd give him a couple beers or money for them and invite others down to have our own MD party since it costs too much to go to Romania

People seem to forget that part of being a villain is that there are consequences for what you do. Without those penalties there is no point in being a villain. The fun part of breaking the rules isn't that you get some material reward from it, its that you got away with it. Saying that because someone's role is being a villain they shouldn't be penalized goes against everything being a villain means.

That being said, what Granos did doesn't appear to be illegal according to the game, although I may have missed the rule. Therefore any penalties would be from the players. I will keep trading with him, I'll just make sure I have what he's giving me before he gets what I'm giving him.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree.
Personally I don't like the way people can make large profits from items they received for nothing. In a way, I see that as mercenary and not very condusive to the game in general.
That being said, theft is another matter entirely. Granos may play a villain, but there has to be a line between 'playing' one and 'behaving' like one. I'm sorry Granos, but I feel that you have overstepped the mark here in the name of villainy. Its hard to say what you have done is purely RP. Theft from an MD character really does impact on the player and its really theft from both.
Also, as Jester said, there are supposed to be consequences for actions. You can't walk into a shop and steal things and then just say 'Hey, Im a villainous person, its my job'.

While having people play villains is a good thing imo, there has to be some boundaries. Some unofficial rules if you like. And I personally feel that one has been crossed now.

In the end, having people feel like they have been ripped off or abused in some other fashion is counterproductive and imo unnaceptable. How can you expect the game to grow if you have this kind of thing happening. It is a proven fact that people are more likely to complain than to compliment and also more likely to tell people about something bad than something good. Personally, I would not refer a friend or family member to any place, if I thought it likely that they would be scammed, stolen from or abused in any fashion. I'm sure I am not alone in this opinion.

Agrees with Firsan.

It is not about Jaco now, but what happens when a scam is done? This involves the whole of MD.

Before MD, I have played in games where players steal, cheat, lie, go on attacking rampage... all part of the game, but no scams are allowed!

Any scammers caught will be sent straight to jail.

This could be a first in MD, and it would be interesting what kind of precedent it would set.

Just a suggestion, since this hasn't been brought up:

Perhaps show the conversation you had? Give us screens from the PMs, because from what Granos said he seems to be like: "I traded with you but you didn't notice what exactly I said."

Etc.

Shadow I think that you are missing the point. If you are seeking to create some kind of loophole in an agreement, then you are seeking to scam someone. I also have to object strenuously to anyone seeking to employ such tactics as you are not dealing with people that are not all native English speakers, nor even adults. In fact taking advantage of someone that is not a native speaker or indeed a minor seems utterly reprehensible to me. I consider it the duty of all people to protect the more vulnerable, not exploit them.
I'd like to reiterate that I am not accusing Granos of being a thief in real life, but at the moment it is looking a little like that to some people.

On the assumption that Granos has merely decided to play the 'villain' and actually does intend to pay up in the end, or at the very least return the item in question, I suggest that he somehow make that known to people. I'd offer to even hold the item in trust for a certain amount of time to represent the 'theft' and then return it to its owner. Of course, people may not like that idea or even trust me either.