Grido

[quote]These categories are now final.[/quote]No more categories please. IaB, you only had to try to get yourself nominated for a single award to get disqualified. Just to note "Best Techie" award isnt only for MD Script techies as people seem to have nominated for (i know they've done other things, but not as publicly).

If using this and leaving the comments in, put a . in the following words; Line 1 - "thread" contains 'read' Line 13 - "save" Line 17 - "info" - 'INF' Also, Ren i get a "[b]eval()'d code[/b] on line [b]18"[/b] In case it's me, the only bit i changed (other than the .'s)was ("storage-name", "storage-type") to ("gridotest123", "aoau")

added current nominations into initial post, if the person you'd nominate has already been nominated, then please dont say the same name again. @Tarq, cos i knew i'd win if i was left in @Sparrhawk, Apophys, Burns, Tarquinus, Awiiya - specify which quest of theirs please. @Burns - Garg's PL entry on who? Can someone get age checks on asryn/Mada/Yoshi/Capital please? @Ledah, full names please Alternatively, Cutler, know what quests they're on about? lol Best Quester can be for most persevering or whatever as well, someone doesnt have to have completed quests to be classed as a good quester.

The ''make it snow!'' button appears next to the go idle one

This is a thread to determine the nominations for the MD Awards 2009. These categories are now final. [u][b]List of categories;[/b][/u] Best Back Story ....Innocence, Amoran K Kol, *Indyra Sirenias*, Jose. Best Debater ....Zleiphneir, Malaikat Maut, Wyncken Vanaril, Grido, Kafuuka, Peace. Best Fighter ....*Clock Master*, *Burns*, Jtz Champion, Cless, dst, Lifeline, The Lost Warrior, Unknown Entity. Best LHO ....*MasterB*, *Princ Rhaegar*, *Indyra Sirenias*, *awiiya*, *Burns*. Best Personal Papers ....Pamplemousse, Kafuuka, Rendril Revant, Totenkopf, Akasha, Shadowseeker, Ladytwin. Best PL Entry ....Zleiphnir (Pamplemousse's PL), Zleiphneir (Amoran K Kol's PL), Sagewoman (Mur's PL), *Burns* (I Hate Alts's PL). Best Protector ....Pamplemousse, *Princ Rhaegar*, Ailith, Lifeline. Best Quest (Please specify quest....) ....Shadowseeker (Drachorn story), Cutler (Astral Plane), Cutler (Puzzle Quest #1), Zleiphneir (Cubicity), Akasha (translation thingie). Best Quester ....asryn, dst, *Indyra Sirenias*, Eigger. Best Role Player ....Tarquinus, Granos, Innocence, *SageWoman*, Thomas the Titan, Ailith, Zliephnier. Best Spell Caster ....*Princ Rhaegar*, Shadowseeker, MRD, *Clock Master*, Yrthilian, Granos. Best Techie ....Rendril Revant, Cutler, dst. Best Villain ....Granos, Ledah, Assira the Black, dst. Most Addicted ....Sagewoman, Lazarus, dst, Pamplemousse, Ailith, Grido. Most Influential ....Khalazdad, Granos, Akasha, Peace. Outstanding Service to MagicDuel ....Glordamar, Chewett, Rendril Renvant, Ailith, Grido, Lazarus, Jonn. Rookie of the Year (between 20 and 100 AD at time of nomination and awarding) ....*Observer*, asryn(tbc), *Madalina Fitzroy*, Yoshi, Captial, Rhah de la Rey(tbc), Milordo Zik, Robin Mea(tbc). Veteran of the Year (must be on active vets list, only winnable once) ....Yrthilian, *Burns*, Chewett, *Sagewoman*, tankfans, Firsanthalas, Demo Account(lol). As a note, i exclude myself from the LHO category. [u][b]Deadlines;[/b][/u] Nominations will close at midnight, end of day Monday 7th December Voting will commence immediately after, until midnight, end of day Sunday 13th December The ceremony will then take place on Saturday 19th, at.....1600 server(? any objections?) At a location yet to be decided (suggestions welcome). To clarify why forum polls arent being done for this, because then people would know the results before they were awarded [img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif[/img] suprise is good. Vote collectors....i'll go find people, i'll announce them by the time voting starts, which isnt yet, and votes must go to all vote collectors (which i'll remind about again when it comes to then). LE: Because of stupidity, i add that you cannot nominate yourselves for awards *removes iab's post* IaB has also been disqualified from voting and being nominated for trying to nominate himself [b][u]List of Vote Collectors;[/u][/b] Grido dst Ailith LE2: Found last years threads [img]http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif[/img] [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/2740-md-end-of-year-award-cermony/"]http://magicduel.inv...-award-cermony/[/url] [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/2828-magic-duel-awards-nominations/"]http://magicduel.inv...ds-nominations/[/url] LE3: NOMINATIONS CLOSED

Pip, there should be a ''delete my vote'' underneath the vote statistics, that will remove your vote so you can change it

topic closed, an attempt at balencing is currently (being) implemented

Figure i should get the final post in this thread before closing it List of awards for this year; Best Back Story Best Debater Best Fighter Best LHO Best Personal Papers Best PL Entry Best Protector Best Quest Best Quester Best Role Player Best Spell Caster Best Techie Best Villain Most Addicted Most Influential Outstanding Service to MagicDuel Rookie of the Year (between 20 and 100 AD) Veteran of the Year (must be on active vets list, only winnable once) New topic for nominations and deadlines will be open in a couple minutes. LE: no polls, i'll explain why in other thread LE2: [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5852-md-award-nominations/"]Nomination thread here[/url]

I apply all sciences not just chemistry I'm going to re-read this at the weekend and get back to you on that Mur, hopefully earlier in the day than 2am for you though No objections to it going there, but i might be able to think better and provide more proofs if i'm not half asleep

I voted for; Yes, 2 per year No alt. Although, i have an issue with players(as well as alts) who log on purely for AD, getting WP's. They havent actually done anything to deserve that WP, whereas players who have been active in game for those days have contributed in rp/fighting/talking etc. So unless there could be some sort of logged in time requirement for it to increment, i'm not sure. Personally i'd find it quite amusing to have a clock telling me the total time i'd been logged in, say starting midnight Jan 1st or something, and seeing how long i'd spent on MD throughout the year, and then you could base the WP's off that, how active a player has been through the year, this would generally ensure that people who log in their alts purely for the AD would be harder pressed for the alt to be considered active, as the timer would be down, and it would also balence out those people who are extremely active during the weekend, but cant always make it on during the day.

Offtopic: [quote]...but LHO spells aren't that effective with that 5/casting/per 2 weeks...[/quote]Princ your spell totals aparently didnt get fixed, LHO's should have 50 casts of each of their LHO spells, if any LHO's do not have this, please message me

The short answer is that nothing can be done about it. It was a decision between you two to trade, and in game items were traded (or not, rather). The person could have part of their role as being a liar and a thief (for instance) and as such, cheating you out of a few silver would be enforcing their role. On the other hand, by peer pressure, he could be convinced to give you the full amount. If you dont trust someone, don't trade with them, or ask for the full sum of money before giving the creature.

Note: Because i'm lazy, all emots are missing (they dont copy paste), assume whenever there's a gap, one of us is laughing Warning: all straight line text Start time stamp: (04/12/2009 02:09:20) - converted to server time End Time Stamp - (04/12/2009 05:59:32) - converted to server time Yeah......that's 4 hours Muratus del Mur: hi Grido: heys Muratus del Mur: no, i wrot clear there, i need the list of bad comments Muratus del Mur: so i can delete them in the db and also i will make a top with those that posted them Grido: yeah, that message was from a couple days ago Grido: already sent you the list of bad comments by forum pm Muratus del Mur: ah ok Muratus del Mur: thnx Grido: np Muratus del Mur: i just opened messenger Muratus del Mur: Grido: Grido: biiiig long list of offline messages? Grido: and at 2am? lol Grido: bad move Muratus del Mur: y Muratus del Mur: i start to work Muratus del Mur: imagine that Muratus del Mur: at 2am Muratus del Mur: grrr Grido: Grido: that's just terrible Muratus del Mur: my secret plan is to send everyone that writes me a short hi, then hoping they are not online at that moment and run fast away Grido: Muratus del Mur: Grido: so if i send you an offline and then hide offline myself? Muratus del Mur: Grido: i've got to remember that one Grido: how's the book? you said it's almost finished? Muratus del Mur: i keep changeging things Grido: good thing about it being digital Muratus del Mur: i made a "discovery" that should be placed more in front Muratus del Mur: and also i am splitting it in 3 parts Grido: removed some of the repeating? Muratus del Mur: "observations" "theories" "applications" Muratus del Mur: yes i removed the repeating Muratus del Mur: i also intend to change the title a bit Grido: good 3 sections, though i've a feeling you might cross over a bit lol Muratus del Mur: the religious look is realy affecting all i asked to tell me their opinion (here i mean) Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: yes i will probably do, applications and theories are very close Muratus del Mur: but first section is clearly separated , i hope Grido: Muratus del Mur: i figured out a thing that was so obvious but i never thought about it Muratus del Mur: all the book speaks about the observer, the third point that gives reality to the other two ... and i didnt realised that life itself is having exactly the same role for the universe, we are its observers Muratus del Mur: by the feelings we have, by all that we do Grido: yea Muratus del Mur: in old magic , memory was one of the ultimate weapons to kill something without a body. Forgetting that thing destroyed it. I think we as living beings, from plants to humans, are strenghteining the existance of the universe by observing it. I realise it sounds weird , but i prepare better words Grido: i've heard a similar strain to that before Grido: except in relation to gods Muratus del Mur: gods die if they are forgotten Grido: a god only "exists" if people believe in it Muratus del Mur: but oftenly this is used in poetic ways Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: everybody forgets its very real roots Muratus del Mur: thats of corse magic Muratus del Mur: where "gods" were not the theoretical powers we believe in now, but actual beings Grido: yeah Grido: i love those old myths and legends Grido: like hercules, achilles etc Grido: sons of gods who came down to earth Muratus del Mur: but, i cant go to much into magic part or i will feel the need to attack the curch, again, and the book will be just a big ramble of a heretic Grido: Muratus del Mur: so those examples will be just ..examples Grido: yea Muratus del Mur: i have my own weapons to support the theories Grido: i'd also start complaining if you misphrased attacks at the church Muratus del Mur: theories that are independent actualy of magic or religion, they apply on everything Grido: thems the best ones Muratus del Mur: ? i dont understand Grido: well from what you've said, you're mostly against either the catholic church, or early catholic church Grido: so if you phrased to do with christians, or christianity, then you'd be argueing against the wrong thing Muratus del Mur: i am against the church as a institution in general. Gaining power out of such secrets is one thing, convincing your subjects that they cant reach it is an other Grido: which is the catholic church mostly Grido: i'm a christian, but i also agree with science, take a lot of the bible metaphoricly, and am open to ideas Muratus del Mur: i dont realy care actualy what church it is, its a church. If you will tell me one church that encourages humans to understand the world "mechanics" and not "blame" everything on god, ...i want to see that Grido: so the secrets thing wouldnt apply to me Muratus del Mur: church steps back only when science is 101% right Grido: no....catholic church Muratus del Mur: my view of the "situation" is that both this religious way and the scientific way are wrong Muratus del Mur: only something combining them can be right Grido: there's catholic and protestant, "low" protestant is much more accepting of all that Muratus del Mur: they are halfs of a mechanism Grido: yea, and i accept both as truths Muratus del Mur: if church would say one day, there is no god, but lets understand things and see each one of us where we decide that god might be, that would be a "wow" Grido: there are for instance christians who work at CERN Muratus del Mur: The funny thing is that i am not saying there is no god or that there is one, because, again, i think both options are wrong, so i am writing a entire book to explain in non religious way, why there is no god and why its stupid to say there is none...... contradiction at its best Grido: hehe Muratus del Mur: its a long story, that i feel this time i can put on paper and actualy support with logic not only with belief Grido: yeah Grido: i'm going to enjoy reading it Muratus del Mur: And yes, the things that come out of it are whats important, not the conclusion, ...as long as people cant see something as between existance and non existance, its pointless to give an answer, its enough to tell the story of the "jurney" so to say Grido: yeah Grido: when i try and explain something by saying there's a middle bit, people try and stop me and i spend ages explaining why it's actually there Muratus del Mur: years ago , i was convinced there is no god, there is no order ... now i am more than sure about the order because i finaly figured it out, and about god, it hurts my fingers when i type that name .. is like the word magic .. so tainted by common beliefs of what it is that its no longer the right word Grido: i would agree Grido: God isnt something/one we can understand Grido: because it's too different Muratus del Mur: but the order thing, i have to say i question my sanity ) ... i mean...some things simply fit too good together , i must be going crazy Grido: Muratus del Mur: i found logic behind principles Grido: but then people who wrote certain equations mightve felt the same lol Muratus del Mur: how and WHY they exist Grido: hehe Muratus del Mur: for me personaly thats amazing Muratus del Mur: and it all connects, i am so sory i dont know better english , this requires poetry to be put well in words Grido: hehe Muratus del Mur: i had a long talk with valy about these things, and he as an artist, had the most natural reaction...because so it is..... its funny when you understand some things fully you end up having no more words about them Muratus del Mur: i feel i cheat what i discovered by putting it in words Grido: Muratus del Mur: but i guess here i am provoked to do so by all people that fail to see it Muratus del Mur: Grido: lol Grido: sometimes words are the only option Muratus del Mur: or art Muratus del Mur: art is the best actualy Muratus del Mur: but, words are good enough for me Grido: a person must use whatever skills they have to express all they've realised for the world to see Grido: or some quote similar Muratus del Mur: true Muratus del Mur: its like a duty Muratus del Mur: to share information Grido: if you dont share what you know, there's no point in knowing it Muratus del Mur: good or bad, information exchange is our purpose in a way Muratus del Mur: it starts from nothing and it ends to nothing, oh you see, bible again grrr Grido: Muratus del Mur: i am frustrated because that book is realy realy holding secrets of imense value Muratus del Mur: i am frustrated to see how these things are used to control masses so to say, over history Muratus del Mur: because i can prove and explain most ideas of christianity Muratus del Mur: and only when doing so i realise, church of any kind doesnt do that at all Grido: I make a point of telling people Easter and Christmas are Pagan festivals Muratus del Mur: yeah good one Muratus del Mur: and they go on with their lives as if you are talking politics Muratus del Mur: why "3" , why the halo, everything i will explain Muratus del Mur: but, trying not to focus on church Muratus del Mur: christianity is only one of the "cultures" that spread this knowledge Muratus del Mur: and its not theirs Grido: early cathololic church was very big on absorbing other beliefs and cultures into it Muratus del Mur: so telling bible is a science book, (lol) is not what i want, because i will ignore all other religions that in essence are the same thing, applied science of how the universe works Muratus del Mur: i simply cant support anything about religion, because it was used wrong Muratus del Mur: i could disect anything and give you strong reasons to believe or not to believe in what they say Muratus del Mur: but thats not the point Muratus del Mur: because the belief or non-belief are decided by the person long before that Muratus del Mur: from childhood Muratus del Mur: they are like founding stones of the character Muratus del Mur: and its no point to argue with anyone, i am just trying to tell the "mechanics" , in my words, whoever sees the similarities, great for them, but i am already at the edge of sounding religious fanatic, either pro or contra, so i have to walk carefuly on the edge Muratus del Mur: Grido: Grido: i have a feeling i might not get much sleep when i come visit, due to debating various things Muratus del Mur: truth remains, i see religion as a science, an imense accumulation of knowledge over time Muratus del Mur: but who else sees that Grido: a science is a study of something Muratus del Mur: mm yes then what other word ...application of science? Muratus del Mur: because religion is not fantasy Grido: no Muratus del Mur: and its not naked truth Muratus del Mur: its a form of ...art maybe? Grido: cant think of a word Muratus del Mur: they are using amazing concepts , applied Grido: religion is art, that fits Muratus del Mur: because there is one Muratus del Mur: magic, unfortunatly Muratus del Mur: the one word church tryed to destroy over centuries Muratus del Mur: so i have no words Grido: but then, if they had not tried to destroy it, would people have strived so hard to protect it? Muratus del Mur: religion is magic, and magic is a form of science that understands and applies laws of the universe Muratus del Mur: religion is all about magic, their foundation is in magic , all religions Grido: example of real life magic, which you can look into if you get bored : How does water travel up a 200m tall tree? Muratus del Mur: and magic as a word, is almost depleted of its meaning, like god Grido: yea Muratus del Mur: just ask people what is magic Muratus del Mur: and you will see the differences Grido: they will say bunny in a hat etc Muratus del Mur: everybody sees something else Muratus del Mur: no Muratus del Mur: they are not that naive Grido: some are... Muratus del Mur: but will talk about abnormal things Muratus del Mur: while BIRTH is the most amazing magic of all Muratus del Mur: and so many examples of real life things... they say if they are explainable by science its not magic ... thats so damn wrong Grido: life from life Grido: the only other form of life producing is from another dying Muratus del Mur: sciencs as we see it is a simplified form of knowledge , only one that includes life as a driving concept can be complete, and thats not biology , thats magic... biology is more like mechanics Muratus del Mur: all magic is explainable Muratus del Mur: all Muratus del Mur: the mistery is just for those that dont understand it Muratus del Mur: ever considered the similarities between magic and science when it comes to old times? Grido: the issue i have with a lot of the ""magic"" people think about nowadays, is conservation of energy Muratus del Mur: what today is spirituality, tomorow will be proven science Grido: hrm Muratus del Mur: it fits its fits!! i have that explanation Muratus del Mur: how they create somethign out of nothign Grido: bt yeah, people got persecuted as witches because they were doing science Grido: how lol Muratus del Mur: i so have that explenation Grido: lol tell Muratus del Mur: i feel like jumping around Muratus del Mur: because that was the proof i had to convince my father that magic exists, when all his life he was against such "ridiculous concepts" Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: idk if to tell you or to let you read the book Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: its kind of late Grido: i'm gonna read the book anyway Muratus del Mur: i define them in the book as stages of complexity Muratus del Mur: you can name them in physics as dimenstions Muratus del Mur: like time is the 4th, but there are many , time is just the msot known example Muratus del Mur: so Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: listen Muratus del Mur: its hard to explain in a few words Muratus del Mur: the "distance" between one complexity level to an other, Muratus del Mur: is infinite Muratus del Mur: i can prove that with examples Grido: i can go with that Muratus del Mur: ok Muratus del Mur: then ,... Muratus del Mur: do you see where i am going? Grido: not yet Muratus del Mur: the "magician" is the one controlling the upper level of complexity Muratus del Mur: that is inexplicable to the lower level Grido: because it's so far away Muratus del Mur: the the conversion from the upper level to the lower level, has at its disposal an endless amount of information Muratus del Mur: and information, is all this world is about... energy including Grido: hmm... Muratus del Mur: withing a system, energy has to balance itself Muratus del Mur: but we are talking about interacting systems! Muratus del Mur: for example Grido: i love your excitement Muratus del Mur: a book contains information , true? Grido: true Grido: ish Grido: depends on definition of information Muratus del Mur: when you read a book, you dont remember photo of letters Muratus del Mur: you recreate the information Grido: in memories things arent always as they were, sure Muratus del Mur: but you can print 1million of books Muratus del Mur: so you create information out of energy Grido: you dont "create" the information 1mil times... Muratus del Mur: yeah but my example is not good because the creation power belongs to the human , Grido: you create the books, the book happens to contain the info Grido: i;ll let you continue before commenting Muratus del Mur: ok Muratus del Mur: what i was trying to say? Muratus del Mur: lol Muratus del Mur: damn its so late Muratus del Mur: ah Grido: Muratus del Mur: endless sources Muratus del Mur: or level jumping Muratus del Mur: for example md Muratus del Mur: its a uppoer level of complexity than whats inside it ... not upper, but different level Muratus del Mur: so those that are not part of its "system" , i mean programming, development, are outside of it Muratus del Mur: (sounds stupid but listen Grido: i'm currently imagining electrons around an atom Muratus del Mur: now md "causes" or can cause, endless other informations Muratus del Mur: in physics ... energy is balanced Muratus del Mur: or how you call it Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: ok you get what i mean Muratus del Mur: but i have a question Muratus del Mur: tricky one Muratus del Mur: i agree energy is balanced, even if its not (because universe is expanding) Muratus del Mur: but Muratus del Mur: can energy, matter, information (all 3 i see as the same thing in different forms but thats not the point here) , appear out of nothing and vanish into nothing? Muratus del Mur: because particle physics says it can! Grido: i know... Muratus del Mur: so it goes into nothing, comes out of nothing, yet is balanced Muratus del Mur: think about it Grido: it relies on balence though Muratus del Mur: not in same place Muratus del Mur: i am not talking about related systems Muratus del Mur: its more like a balance of the universe Grido: the particles come into existance on the condidition that the antiparticle anihilates it immediately after Muratus del Mur: in general Muratus del Mur: no, for example on particle colisions Muratus del Mur: or light Muratus del Mur: an electron without charge ...vanishes? Grido: no, it has a minute mass Grido: energy can convert into mass, vice-versa Muratus del Mur: matter turns into energy and the opposite Muratus del Mur: lol Grido: Muratus del Mur: yet they can both vanish, and bot appear out of nothing Muratus del Mur: the "transmutation" between them is only one aspect of the process Muratus del Mur: but the real interesting one is creation and death so to say Muratus del Mur: because they are related in a non direct way Muratus del Mur: energy can vanish without something to absorb it, and its logica considering on a large scale the universe is "endless" or at least expanding , yet its not all full of matter or energy Muratus del Mur: so if something dies , its logical it shoudl also appear Muratus del Mur: damn, why the hell i feel i am offtopic Muratus del Mur: !! Muratus del Mur: ))) Grido: the universe expanding means the energy stretches (or how i learnt about it) i thought? Grido: rather than more energy being produced Muratus del Mur: energy vanishes Muratus del Mur: and energy is produced Grido: the scientist in me is asking for proof Muratus del Mur: i will document this fully because i see its of interest Muratus del Mur: okok, i will have it Grido: if people are to believe that magic is possible, then they'll want to know how Muratus del Mur: tips and tricks? Grido: although "for those that want to believe, no proof is needed. for those that cant believe, no proof is enough" Muratus del Mur: thats the magic people SEE , not do. those that do it,...its no more magic for them Grido: not tips and tricks Grido: i dont mean how to perform magic Grido: i mean how it works Muratus del Mur: take for example a king in front of his army just before battle Muratus del Mur: he is saying ...we will win Muratus del Mur: ok untill here? Grido: how all the troops then believe it Grido: yeah Grido: and get inspired, and feel stronger for it? Muratus del Mur: no Muratus del Mur: listen Muratus del Mur: instead of acting to what he said ... like ... ah ok we will win, pfewww now i am more relaxed Muratus del Mur: something in them gives them a strong feeling that motivates them towards that process Grido: on the other hand, before other battles the leader would say a more poetic version of "we're all gonna die today" and they'd still fight to their last breath Muratus del Mur: the feeling of the leader, that is more complex (thats the keyword) than the one of the soldiers, is splitt, broken in many less complex feelings, but of more intense power , into the soldiers Grido: like the leader spirit inner magic doc? Muratus del Mur: something Grido: the will of the one goes to the will of the many? Muratus del Mur: it goes , but i am not sure if i wrote there about the difference in complexity Muratus del Mur: at that time i knew that one but not explaind it fully Grido: yea Muratus del Mur: now Muratus del Mur: think about waves Muratus del Mur: the more higher the freqvency Muratus del Mur: the lower the amplitude Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: to keep same energy Grido: (damn i hate physics) Muratus del Mur: the lower the freqvency (the lower complexity feeling in the soldiers) , the stronger the amplitude Muratus del Mur: so the complex feeling of the leader, is transfered to the soldiers, loses complexity, but gainst power Muratus del Mur: thats the point Muratus del Mur: and the endless source of energy is visible here Muratus del Mur: because a king can motivate 100 people Muratus del Mur: or 1000000000000 Muratus del Mur: its the same Muratus del Mur: Grido: lol... Muratus del Mur: because the difference between complexity levels is endless Grido: i can probably pick holes in any metaphor you give Muratus del Mur: and you can use that difference to turn it into soemthing Grido: but i get the idea Grido: sortof Muratus del Mur: well i am not talkiing for nothing, please do so! Grido: Grido: well that equates to inspiration Grido: think of it like a door inside your head Grido: or many doors Grido: when a king (or whatever) speaks to a large crowd, he gives you that key to unlock that door Grido: so the power is already within the person Grido: it just gets unlocked Grido: the energy is not created, just released Muratus del Mur: but the difference between what is in the king and what is in those people , if seen as quantity, is theoreticaly endless Grido: but then you're gaining it from infinitesources as well Grido: it's like shouting into a cavern and hearing the echos Grido: (crap, keep changing the meaning of my own metaphors) Muratus del Mur: for example in multiple dimensions, if you have a 3d shape and try to put it in 2d (lower complexity level) , you can do so in an endless number of ways ... you are not creating something, but the endless gap allows you do access endless amounts of information Muratus del Mur: (lol) Grido: sure, infinite possibilities Muratus del Mur: infinite possibilities, and as matter means information, and can get to pure information eventualy, its a clue that creation is possible Muratus del Mur: at least , so i believe ... i was not able to materialise a 100$ bill unfortunatly Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: Grido: i'm still stuggling here Muratus del Mur: in math, there are irrational numbers that are ..endless Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: so a simple equation, causes an endless source of information Muratus del Mur: thats AMAZING Muratus del Mur: its actualy endless Muratus del Mur: not big Muratus del Mur: endless, its huge difference Muratus del Mur: and from what, from simple things, finite things, you get something endless Grido: i'm not liking the definition of information, even if it's the correct one Muratus del Mur: just because of this gap between complexity levels Muratus del Mur: art for example Grido: ok, so we have infinite information Muratus del Mur: a simple painting, can have 100000 meanings for each single person that looks at it Grido: yeah, all sorts of complexity levels, for me it looks like a bag of trash, another person a law suit waiting to happen Muratus del Mur: infinite information (not infiniteley repeating), means a source , a logical source Grido: (i have issues with the tate gallery in london) Grido: i can go with infinite information Muratus del Mur: and here is where brain crashes and people call it god, i so hate it Muratus del Mur: because its explainable in its every bit why is so, and i dont talk about math, or physics examples, but i talk about to explain shy this concept works, starting from its very roots Muratus del Mur: all starts with two dots, and all of this can be explained with two dots Muratus del Mur: in a poetic way so to say Muratus del Mur: if you can imagine a perfectly empty universe .... big if .... you can realise that whats inside it could not be different ... if it was any kind of "creation" it would be slightly different, but its not Muratus del Mur: we could be an imagine world inside someones mind actualy .... now here goes my sanity .... Muratus del Mur: that i dont know Grido: Grido: dont go into the Matrix esque route Muratus del Mur: i dotn want to know, but its possible, and would fit the rules so to say Muratus del Mur: nono Muratus del Mur: matrix is different Muratus del Mur: Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: i am not talking about an illusion Grido: hence "esque" Muratus del Mur: theoreticaly..... the universe should be endless Muratus del Mur: not in size Muratus del Mur: in everything Grido: i use that when someone (and it happens suprisingly often with me) starts talking about us living in a world thats not really here Muratus del Mur: that means also it should not exist at the same time Grido: scrodinger Muratus del Mur: here is the dangerous trap that the mind cant agree to so we must fill it with a name Muratus del Mur: because an absolute world it is, and that leave no place for an outside ... Muratus del Mur: "outside" i mean Grido: yeah Grido: the old if the universe is constantly expanding, what's it expanding into Muratus del Mur: now, if you remember what is said about god, with alpha and omega .... Muratus del Mur: its riske ground Grido: yea Muratus del Mur: because liek i first said, religious concepts are not alien about this, but they a presented with a differen purpose Muratus del Mur: afterall how can a normal sane mind accept that "nothing" can coexist with "everything" Grido: the best way to hide the truth is by putting it in plain sight Muratus del Mur: yep, so they did, thats to admire actualy Muratus del Mur: only thing that keeps me sane is searching for applications, because the theory itself would cause me to shutdown and say nothing Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: its like you start from nothing...because it starts from total nothing... and you go allover the world with samples and examples, and then you return to same nothing Muratus del Mur: even the enthusiasm fades then Muratus del Mur: its simply so Muratus del Mur: its not even sad Muratus del Mur: its just so Grido: hehe Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: i wished i could talk these things face2face : Muratus del Mur: Grido: ;p Grido: Grido: you'll get your chance Muratus del Mur: i will, oh i will so torture you Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: and at the same time, there'll be no sleep Grido: LOL Grido: i have to swat up before i go there then? Muratus del Mur: instead of a book i could print a blank page, that would say everything , but...who would understand it, ...only those that already know it Muratus del Mur: so , i cheat, i go into the applications field Muratus del Mur: because uses are endless Muratus del Mur: and even if they are incomplete, they present portions of this Muratus del Mur: and its enough Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: afterall, that space inside your mind where you have to decide on your own what to put there, nothingness, god, whatever, should be left untouched by a book Muratus del Mur: but the entire thing around it, that can be explained, with details Grido: hehe Muratus del Mur: i am (re)searching now something, if i die before i write it, it wont be a wonder ))) .. no i am not paranoid yet, it was a joke Grido: it's all about influencing, rather than forcing Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: based on the same logic with the complexity levels .... it also means fantasy can never become reality because its a endless gap between the two "worlds" ... BUT.... Grido: side - take the forum status i just put up in the (inside) joke way as intended Grido: there isnt so much a gap between the two worlds Grido: because they dont exist in the same state Muratus del Mur: if you bring the spectators in your level of complexity, the fantasy one ....anything is possible ..and here is the difference between magic as a science, and an art ..its an art to do that, is science to understand it as it is Muratus del Mur: important note: complexity as i mean it doesnt means more complicated Muratus del Mur: its like different world Grido: yeah, i know Grido: or figured Muratus del Mur: how to say it better? Muratus del Mur: ok Grido: but at the same time, if you try and say that to a non-scientist....lol Muratus del Mur: LL Muratus del Mur: status Muratus del Mur: )) Grido: Grido: i'm 'up' at 8 Grido: it's not too bad currently though Muratus del Mur: read now Grido: saw Grido: i still blame you Muratus del Mur: i have to make coffe Grido: lol kk Muratus del Mur: my crash point in these discussions is when the "adversary" or better said "partner of dialogue", brings in the ultimate destroying argument, god did it. I feel like strangle him throught the monitor Muratus del Mur: i dont say yes or no, i say just hold on that thought and look at everything first Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: you knwo christianity said this too in other words Grido: i try and avoid using that point Muratus del Mur: dont give him a carved face , i think it was Muratus del Mur: or picture or whatever Muratus del Mur: and in islam, its the 1000 names of allah.... you name something 1000 times when you want to take away focus from one single name Grido: because whilst god "did it" it's more he caused the environment fro it to happen, it doesnt explain the actual how, or why Muratus del Mur: its doesnt explain anything actualy Muratus del Mur: because in the end, god is ...just a point on a circle Muratus del Mur: yes circles again ) Muratus del Mur: im obsessed with that i admit it Grido: Muratus del Mur: ever heard of the riemann sphere? Muratus del Mur: thats the next chapter i have to finish in the "observing" part Grido: no...*googles* Muratus del Mur: google it Muratus del Mur: its the mathematical explenation of my circle and dot theory Grido: oh crap Grido: i hate the 1/0 logic Grido: Muratus del Mur: )0 Muratus del Mur: yes its confusing at first Muratus del Mur: but intuition hels more than logic here Grido: i prefer adopting the roman way of thinking Muratus del Mur: lol, to sword or not to sword Grido: not that one Grido: think about their counting system Grido: 0 doesnt exist Muratus del Mur: think about this ... acceptance of zero in culture is directly proportional with how people thing about god in that time Muratus del Mur: its...something to think about Muratus del Mur: because "nothingness" is one concept that is missing from our default thoughts package Muratus del Mur: same with infinity Grido: the main issue i have with 1/0 is the math... Muratus del Mur: but, thats old new, new news is that i have more such concepts that are missing and can change out way of seeing things Muratus del Mur: *news Grido: whilst i agree that as you get infinitely closer to 0 you get an infinitely bigger number, i dont get it hitting 0 Grido: lol Grido: awesome Grido: i might be slightly worried about you having 6 more months to work on those Muratus del Mur: lol Muratus del Mur: what you mean Grido: when we have our debates when i visit Grido: you'll have better arguements Muratus del Mur: )))))))) Muratus del Mur: we might agree actualy ... that would be boring uuhhhh Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: lol, yeah Grido: but there's a very unlikely chance that we'd agree completly Grido: each person is unuique and so no two perspectives are the same Muratus del Mur: of course , there will be that gap ... hmm is it that one i talk about in my theories? lol Grido: Muratus del Mur: dialogues are ment to bring in new info and they do that be controlled conflict Muratus del Mur: thats the point Grido: i love the gap, but unfortunately people dont always believe in it Muratus del Mur: if all woudl agreee, we would actualy shutup Grido: like saying that someone's not neccesarily wrong, just because they're not right Muratus del Mur: waht actualy hapend in a discussion with valy Muratus del Mur: lol Grido: Muratus del Mur: we agreed on things, then it became boring, we both knew same thing, it was right, no more fun Grido: Grido: speaking of Valy, how's my lighthouse? Muratus del Mur: brb Grido: kk Grido: i still need to get my head aroud information = energy Muratus del Mur: man we realy need to stop, i have lots of work and its very late and as you said you are also awake form long Muratus del Mur: Grido: Grido: alright Muratus del Mur: as answer for above question Muratus del Mur: energy = information is the way to see it Muratus del Mur: matter = energy Grido: yea, but how is energy = info, just seeing it like that doesnt make it so Muratus del Mur: for example, you use energy to convert it into information Muratus del Mur: you smash a glass Muratus del Mur: energy changes into a static form Muratus del Mur: the information is the one thing it changes into Grido: but then information isnt something to change into... Muratus del Mur: we will never end , its 4:30 am ! you are right , ok? Grido: Grido: just need you to post that here now; [url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/5398-who-is-right/"]http://magicduel.inv...8-who-is-right/[/url] Muratus del Mur: lol people actualy voted )) Grido: ofc Muratus del Mur: and they have REASONS Muratus del Mur: ))) Grido: Muratus del Mur: i replied Muratus del Mur: )))))) Grido: lol Grido: you were meant to say me! Muratus del Mur: ofc!! Muratus del Mur: duhhh Grido: Grido: *you were meant to say Grido!! Muratus del Mur: its how nature goes ... im MD )) Grido: Muratus del Mur: damn now i cant stop thinking about the energy / information thing Grido: Grido: sorry? Muratus del Mur: i am trying to explain how somethng can come out of something and go into something, yet it cant be converted in or out that thing Muratus del Mur: because put with the equal sign it has a different meaning Muratus del Mur: its like energy degrades into information Muratus del Mur: information is the lower state of energy , nah i said it Grido: there's an innate NO in my head lol Muratus del Mur: same as energy is the lower state of matter Muratus del Mur: lower (complexity) state Grido: yeah, but i dont get how it converts Muratus del Mur: heat burns something, that something "turns" into something else, heat goes away, ashes remain Muratus del Mur: that heat is spread, endlessly, eventualy on a bigger scale lost in the universe Muratus del Mur: because a limited amount of anything is equal zero divided by infinity Muratus del Mur: and universe is infinity Muratus del Mur: so what remains out of energy is the ashes caued by that fire, or the shards of the glass: i'm guessing you understand the chemical process? Muratus del Mur: ? Muratus del Mur: energy is conserved only within closed systems Muratus del Mur: universe is not a closed one Grido: like the X +02 > XO + 0 Muratus del Mur: nope no clue what those signs are Grido: the formula for burning stuff Muratus del Mur: sweet, if you say so Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: chemistry is not something i know Muratus del Mur: except making bombs of course Muratus del Mur: Grido: Burning is actually just oxidising something Grido: with heat added Grido: LOL Muratus del Mur: well it changes something right? Muratus del Mur: and heat is not stored into that something in any way Grido: well sure, the heat provides the energy for the reaction Grido: to break the bonds Muratus del Mur: and bonds remain broken Grido: no Muratus del Mur: after energy is gone, it will not revert Grido: bonds break then reform Grido: but in a different pattern Muratus del Mur: a burn paper will not reasamble itself when fire is out Grido: oh, no Grido: if we take P as paper Grido: O2 is Oxygen Grido: P + O2 > PO + O Muratus del Mur: ok Muratus del Mur: > means grater than? Muratus del Mur: Grido: lol no Muratus del Mur: or just turns into Grido: i cant do a proper arrow Grido: reacts to form Muratus del Mur: - > Muratus del Mur: k Muratus del Mur: so the point Muratus del Mur: ? Grido: oh right, need to read back now Grido: oh yeah ""Muratus del Mur: heat burns something, that something "turns" into something else, heat goes away, ashes remain"" Grido: your explaining was off Muratus del Mur: well you say its not so? Grido: well the heat doesnt burn anything Muratus del Mur: it changes Grido: the state of burning technically doesnt exist Muratus del Mur: into a lower state of energy Grido: not neccesarily Muratus del Mur: but? Muratus del Mur: explain what you say it does Grido: bonds have a certain energy to them Muratus del Mur: when you burn a paper , or shater a glass Muratus del Mur: (i listen) Grido: but each different bond has a different amount of energy Grido: so a C-O bond would say have an energy of 3 (numbers are random, no way correct) Grido: and an N-O bond would have a value of 6 Muratus del Mur: wait, you say the burned paper has a higher state of energy? Grido: it could, yeah Muratus del Mur: its important Muratus del Mur: because i dont think it does Muratus del Mur: i think it has a lower one Muratus del Mur: and thats essential Muratus del Mur: because if its lower, then yes energy turns into information, if not, then i am wrong Grido: to say, break a C-O bond, you would need 3 energy, but the bond that's then formed, might have a value of 7 Muratus del Mur: what do you understand by state of energy Grido: excitement level? Muratus del Mur: for me, fuel has more potential energy in it (not "potential" in mechanic meaning), than after it is burned Grido: yes, if you catch it Grido: all bonds have energy Grido: they hold that energy Grido: so that C-O bond, has 3 energy in it Muratus del Mur: k Grido: to break that, you need to overcome that energy, by putting more than that 3 Grido: that C can then form anew bond Grido: which might have more energy in it Muratus del Mur: that new bond, does not have more energy in it as the previous, it has less Grido: no Grido: it can have more than 3 Muratus del Mur: well this can be checked actualy Grido: but it could also have less Grido: depends on the bond Muratus del Mur: i am talking about destructive processes Grido: there's always a balence Muratus del Mur: of course you can put energy into something and store it there Muratus del Mur: like charging a battery Grido: you cant destroy something without something being created Muratus del Mur: but when you brake something, energy vanishes (eventualy on a large scale) but information remains Muratus del Mur: exactly, and you create information! Muratus del Mur: Grido: nono lol Muratus del Mur: )) Muratus del Mur: braking a glass create information Muratus del Mur: no energy Grido: breaking a glass creates fragments of glass Muratus del Mur: that mean more information Grido: kinetic energy from your hand, gets transfered to the glass, breaking it Muratus del Mur: exactly Grido: the glass then gives off that energy in waves Muratus del Mur: briken glass means more information Muratus del Mur: energy creates information Grido: eh Muratus del Mur: but energy dies, information...not Grido: it'd be more the same information in smaller pieces Muratus del Mur: (trick is this happens only in an entropic system , but dont tell me that yet) Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: its not same info!!! Muratus del Mur: i can prove it Muratus del Mur: Grido: if i said 0123456789 was a piece of glass, and hit it, it breaks into 0123 - 456 - 789 Muratus del Mur: noooo ha! Muratus del Mur: Grido: Grido: go on Muratus del Mur: can i tell pls pls Muratus del Mur: Grido: Muratus del Mur: ordered systems can be defined by formulas Grido: sure Muratus del Mur: the more ordered they are the simpler the formula Muratus del Mur: even infinity can be defined by formula if its ordered Muratus del Mur: like fractals Muratus del Mur: so, you have a piece of glass, lets make it a perfect sphere , for the sake of a clear example Muratus del Mur: a perfect sphere, means a clear formula, little information Muratus del Mur: a bunch of shards, means a lot of complex formulas, a lot of more information Muratus del Mur: the more chaos you have the more informations you have Grido: but put them together and you have the same information Muratus del Mur: order is a form of storing information Muratus del Mur: its like fuel, if you burn it it causes energy, if you "burn" order, it causes lots of info Muratus del Mur: you need energy to put them together!! Grido: cause = release, just to be picky Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: yes release its ok Grido: this is my forereasoned pointing out about bonds Muratus del Mur: objections sir? Grido: ofc! Grido: Muratus del Mur: yey! Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: ok, you have your sphere (damn i want to draw) Muratus del Mur: Grido: lets turn it into a cube? Grido: Grido: makes it easier to describe Muratus del Mur: lol Muratus del Mur: ok Muratus del Mur: sure Muratus del Mur: md style Grido: imagine each corner as a small ball, each corner connected by a string Grido: got it? Muratus del Mur: ok.... Muratus del Mur: you are getting more complicated than the sphere but fine Grido: if you cut those strings you still get the same fractured,more complex bits, yeah? Muratus del Mur: (im doiing a design for a web while talking so sry if i get slow) Grido: is k Muratus del Mur: in a way yes, only that those strings will need more info to describe them Grido: i'm trying to describe it with words Muratus del Mur: ok, continue Grido: crap, need to remember the metaphor Muratus del Mur: need help ? Grido: lol nah, got it i think Grido: imagine cutting a string, the balls the string is between can move more freely etc, yeah? Muratus del Mur: ok.. Grido: there isnt any tension between them Grido: energy is released Grido: so if we take the state of the string being there as '1' and not being there as '0' Muratus del Mur: uncertainty is also a source of infinite information you know having those balls in a fixed positon means less information than having them lose in unpredictable places Grido: lol Grido: the situation still applies Muratus del Mur: i dont see where you go with this Muratus del Mur: i feel i am about to fall in an invisible trap lol i love it Grido: so yeah, you cut all the strings, ok? Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: ok.. Muratus del Mur: scary untill now Grido: so the relationship between all the bonds is 0, as energy is released from all the strings Muratus del Mur: ok Grido: there is no tension or anything between them Muratus del Mur: (information is created while energy is released) Muratus del Mur: in your example i mean Grido: cube = information Grido: little balls = pieces of information Grido: you were saying how information is increased Muratus del Mur: cube = simple information, pieces = complex and unordered information (larger in quantity) Grido: but it's the same amount of energy Grido: by putting the same amount of energy back into the information, the information is reduced Muratus del Mur: exactly Grido: by that reasoning, i could irradicate all information Muratus del Mur: *tries to pull foot out of invisible trap* I DONT SEE IT DAMN IT Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: Muratus del Mur: ah Muratus del Mur: i got it Muratus del Mur: no Muratus del Mur: Grido: Muratus del Mur: you need 1 point of energy to break the cube, but you need a lot more energy to assamble it Grido: nope Muratus del Mur: creation is always harder than destruction Muratus del Mur: brake a glass, you do it very simple with less energy Muratus del Mur: put it together, you need a lot of energy Grido: there's the same amount of energy involved, just in different forms Muratus del Mur: cant be, just imagine how you put a glass back in order Muratus del Mur: or anything that is destroyed Grido: wait, i'm using amount of energy "used" Grido: rather than required Muratus del Mur: moving one place back to its normal position, means no more energy because the initial state had no addition information in it in the first place Grido: If a bond has a value of 3, then it would take so much to break it Grido: when you reform it, it would still have a value of 3 Muratus del Mur: and answer me this Muratus del Mur: the energy used to brake it , is it found in the remains? Grido: of the glass? Muratus del Mur: anything actualy Muratus del Mur: yes glass Muratus del Mur: fuel , whatever Grido: partly Muratus del Mur: partly means less Muratus del Mur: so energy is not stored in the remains Grido: we're using different definitions btw Muratus del Mur: lol Grido: the same amount of energy is needed Grido: but it's not the same energy Muratus del Mur: order means more energy potential and less information , while chaos means more information but less energy potential Muratus del Mur: you deny that? Muratus del Mur: Grido: i'd say that order has a lot of information Grido: just in a regulated state Muratus del Mur: i dont know if you mean a higer level, or just more info than chaos Muratus del Mur: because it has a higher level of info, but a lot less Grido: let me think....stuff is more likely to happen in chaos than in order Grido: because there are more possibilities? Muratus del Mur: because its more information in it Muratus del Mur: raw information Grido: i dont like your definition of information i dont think Muratus del Mur: and less energy Muratus del Mur: so you need a lot of energy to put back chaos into order Muratus del Mur: if you complete information with energy you get order Muratus del Mur: and the opposite Grido: the same amount of energy is released when order breaks into chaos Grido: as is used when chaos gets ordered Muratus del Mur: nope Grido: it denies the principle of balence if you say no Muratus del Mur: the ballance happens in closed systems only Muratus del Mur: universe is a open one Grido: the universe as a whole, is a closed system Muratus del Mur: take a fixed scenary, decide where you put its margins, and yes its true Grido: because nothing goes in or out of it Muratus del Mur: thats a long discussion if universe is closed or open Grido: Muratus del Mur: it might be both actualy Muratus del Mur: afterall is absolute Muratus del Mur: thats why we name it UNI verse Grido: or Multiverse, but that's a whole other debate Muratus del Mur: but within a closed system, braking something requires less energy than putting it together, and because of unfair reasons....... i tell you why Grido: with chaos and order, nothing is broken, or being put together Muratus del Mur: all other forces or "factors" help when it comes to desctruction, but stay aside when it comes to creation Muratus del Mur: for example Muratus del Mur: the glass will collect""""" energy because the peices will fall to the ground Muratus del Mur: so you will need more to put them back Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: but thats just an example Grido: but the same amount of energy breaks the glass as repairs it Grido: more waste energy is produced when repairing Grido: but it's the same amount in the glass Muratus del Mur: still , the _direct_ relation between energy and information exists Muratus del Mur: its why we have order and chaos as extremes Grido: with the glass thing, your theory suggests that if i break glass, then reform it, the same piece of glass, with the same molecules, will have more energy Muratus del Mur: and because the system we live in is entropic at this point, things tend to go towards chaos Muratus del Mur: no you will not have more!! i said you will need more Grido: more waste energy Muratus del Mur: when its back in its initial state it will have the same, but less information Muratus del Mur: more waste yes Grido: you technically dont ''need'' that energy Muratus del Mur: exactly _technicaly_ you need it Grido: it's just the methods we use are extremely wasteful Muratus del Mur: theoreticaly you dont Muratus del Mur: but that theory applies only to closed systems Muratus del Mur: why in universe, by logic, energy can go to waste Muratus del Mur: division by infinity remember Grido: energy changes state, so theres no true waste energy, just energy is wasted Muratus del Mur: energy is indeed wasted, while information appears Muratus del Mur: thats what i am saying Muratus del Mur: the difference in state how you call it, its a difference in information levels Muratus del Mur: a broken glass contains less ordered , more abundedn information Muratus del Mur: while a intact glass contains more ordered but less information Grido: if i do 1/3 then i get information by putting "energy" in, if i then times it by 3 i would get 1 again, but the "information" would then be "gone" Muratus del Mur: yes very good example Muratus del Mur: math is cleaner Muratus del Mur: Grido: Muratus del Mur: but problem with math ... is dividion equal as force with multiplication? Muratus del Mur: i would say no Grido: no? Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: because .... Muratus del Mur: you can achieve a larger quantity of information by using division than by using multiplication Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: you can get an endless number by using division, while you always get a finite number by using multiplication Grido: hm Muratus del Mur: *blinks* am i right? lol Grido: i'm trying to think Muratus del Mur: )) Muratus del Mur: its ...5:30 Muratus del Mur: !!!!!!! Muratus del Mur: arrggghh Grido: Muratus del Mur: just lose damn it Muratus del Mur: )) Grido: never! Muratus del Mur: ) Muratus del Mur: so cool Muratus del Mur: )) Muratus del Mur: save this discussion is lovely Grido: Grido: i save all yim logs Muratus del Mur: )) Muratus del Mur: nice nice, so you keep proof ) Grido: multiplication balences division Grido: because they are opposites Muratus del Mur: *trembles* does it? Grido: ofc Muratus del Mur: nah, irrelevant! Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: they are jsut by normal perception, that you see it works in a fixed example, like 6/2 = 3 and 3*2=6 Muratus del Mur: but over a larger scale, division wins Muratus del Mur: remember period? Grido: you can always reverse a division by multiplying Grido: period? Muratus del Mur: 1.177771777777177777 Muratus del Mur: its endless Muratus del Mur: ! Muratus del Mur: nononop Muratus del Mur: you CANT Muratus del Mur: ha Muratus del Mur: ! Muratus del Mur: Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: lallalala Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: you cant Grido: show mw Grido: *me Muratus del Mur: period numbers are endless, you cant "hold" them to use them in a equation, so multiplying happens actualy with only a part of them untill you agree the result is close enough Muratus del Mur: division creates infinity, while multiplication CANT Muratus del Mur: division wins Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: 10/3 Muratus del Mur: =???? Muratus del Mur: 3.333333333(to infinity) Grido: yeah, but if you then x 3 Grido: you'll get 10 Muratus del Mur: while 3*3.33333(a big, but not endless number) wont equal pure ten Grido: unless it gets rounded Muratus del Mur: becaseu you cant hold that endless number without the power of division Grido: yeah, you put energy in to get the number Grido: you get same energy out when you times Muratus del Mur: you put same energy, but you get more info from division Grido: but the information goes Grido: away Grido: the information is lost as soon as you multiply Muratus del Mur: that if you multiply with that number but you cant, unless you request the help of division to hold that number for the multiplication process .. i mean (3/10)*3 = 10 (see divion helps) but 3.33333(lots) * 3 wont be pure ten Muratus del Mur: division is more powerfull, admit it Grido: no, because "3.33333(lots)" is not the same as 10/3 Muratus del Mur: but infinity you cant define or hols, not without power of division Muratus del Mur: *hold Muratus del Mur: so you cant actualy have 3.333 infinite Muratus del Mur: without defining it as a fraction Grido: i'm not denying that dividing gets these numbers, but i am saying that multiplying gets rid of them Muratus del Mur: so multiplication works only when helped by division, but division works ALWAYS even if not helped by division Muratus del Mur: 3.333 cant be defined as infinite, you cant type it actualy, you need to express it as a fraction/division Grido: sure Muratus del Mur: but without that division to help, you will never have pure infinity so multiplication alone cant reduce it back to pure 10 Grido: but multiplying that irrational number gets the rational number back Muratus del Mur: what irrational number, you dont have it unless you use division Muratus del Mur: (i dont think its called irrational!!) Muratus del Mur: sqrt(2) is irrational Grido: if you do 10^10n, where n is the sum of the value Grido: then that's infinity Muratus del Mur: because cant be a fraction Muratus del Mur: 10^10n ? Grido: yeah Muratus del Mur: explain Grido: 10 to the power of 10 is 100 Muratus del Mur: you say you can get infinity with multiplication alone? Grido: if you then did 10^(10*100) Grido: etc Muratus del Mur: thats a formula already, its not multiplication, its a repetitive process Grido: sure, but you reach it Grido: by just multiplying Muratus del Mur: 1+1 is infinite if used in a repetitive formula too Grido: 1+1 isnt Muratus del Mur: division does that in first round Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: 1n+1 nah Grido: infinity is defined by a number that cant be reached Muratus del Mur: yes Grido: if you keep adding 1 then you can aways say the number Muratus del Mur: but its a repetitive process Muratus del Mur: so it never ends Muratus del Mur: so it cant be reached Muratus del Mur: only predicted Grido: well, fine, but your reasoning that multiplying cant reach infinity is false Grido: it just cant get there in a single step Muratus del Mur: multiplying alone, without infinite numbers to start in the first palce, cant Muratus del Mur: if it can, prove it Muratus del Mur: lol, in a single step is the idea Muratus del Mur: in more steps, anything can Grido: sure Muratus del Mur: infinite steps means infinity in the first place Muratus del Mur: its not the merit of multiplying, its the merit of those steps Grido: wait, how'd we get onto infinity? Muratus del Mur: Muratus del Mur: no clue Muratus del Mur: its almost 6am Muratus del Mur: but there was a point Grido: Muratus del Mur: somehere Muratus del Mur: )) Grido: Muratus del Mur: i know that if you lose division argument you lose an other one Muratus del Mur: )) Muratus del Mur: so i keep fighting Grido: Muratus del Mur: not sure for what Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: Muratus del Mur: something with energy and braking Muratus del Mur: that if you brak something its same thing as with putting it back Muratus del Mur: Grido: hehe Muratus del Mur: i think Muratus del Mur: who knows Muratus del Mur: ) Muratus del Mur: but its fun Grido: Muratus del Mur: did we start this at 2am? Muratus del Mur: omfg Grido: for you yeah Grido: Muratus del Mur: 4hours???!?!? Grido: Muratus del Mur: lol Muratus del Mur: at least i win last round , not sure what the score is though, do we keep one? Muratus del Mur: ) Grido: Grido: prolly best not Grido: we'd end up debating whether we truly won certain points Muratus del Mur: ) Muratus del Mur: true Grido: you know your longest debate record, just do this with me in MD Muratus del Mur: how long was it? Muratus del Mur: 12h? Muratus del Mur: lol Grido: about that Grido: but you were gonna do a medal for longest or somesuch Muratus del Mur: ....someone needs to be a bit derraid from "normal" to do that Muratus del Mur: you can post this on the forum)))) Grido: lol Grido: Grido: will do Muratus del Mur: secret debate Muratus del Mur: sweet Muratus del Mur: its so nice, i love debates of this kind, you should see me never stop when i am face2face Grido: lol, cant wait Muratus del Mur: problem is , girls simply cant hold on ofter 2 hours Grido: Muratus del Mur: and guys, well i exhausted all Grido: i'll be there around a week i think Grido: not that i booked tickets yet Muratus del Mur: a week, nice, we cant talk a few, with 4h sleep brakes )) Grido: Grido: breaks? tchuh Grido: that's not doing it properly Muratus del Mur: yeah i am getting old you know, i need to sleep ...not like you Grido: Muratus del Mur: record was ... Muratus del Mur: 18h i think if i remember right Muratus del Mur: with valy Grido: Muratus del Mur: im not joking Muratus del Mur: ana was amused at first Grido: wake up, start debate, end debate, sleep? Muratus del Mur: after that she was like ... guys you are nuts? Muratus del Mur: noooo Muratus del Mur: streight 18h Grido: yeah, what i mean Muratus del Mur: ana was sleeping Muratus del Mur: and waking Muratus del Mur: and not believing we still go on Grido: Muratus del Mur: very creative talks Grido: during one of your debates about circles she pointed a webcam at you two Grido: lol Muratus del Mur: btw ... some of the things i lost in this discussion, i know i did i just didnt admited and convinced you the opposite, or at least tried to, but i will write them Muratus del Mur: i wont say where you were right Muratus del Mur: personal ego you know, keeps me going Grido: Grido: Muratus del Mur: but you did win several points, you just so easyly moved on not convinced they are so Muratus del Mur: Grido: lol Grido: i have a short attention span Grido: Muratus del Mur: you knwo the most funny thing you can do to someone, is to convince him he is right , ...he will fight back that you are wrong Muratus del Mur: like in tom and jerry cartoons Grido: Muratus del Mur: or bugs bunny Muratus del Mur: i did that...at some point we were arguing about something that YOU said it so in the first place, but you argued with me that its not like that,,,,, after i started to convince you exactly what you said Muratus del Mur: read it and you will see Muratus del Mur: its funny Muratus del Mur: and sorry i did that but i was almost losing a point there Grido: Grido: damnit! Grido: thanks for reviving that who is right topic btw, i just got another point Muratus del Mur: lol if you post this on forum people will be afraid to talk to me lol Muratus del Mur: i voted Grido: Grido: ooh, YAY Grido: should i edit this or just copy as is? Muratus del Mur: middle path does not exist if you have just two options, sad reality, i had to vote to see result Grido: Muratus del Mur: whatever Muratus del Mur: i will have to read it again, some things we talked changed some of my existing ideas Grido: hehe Grido: Muratus del Mur: i will not tell you were Grido:

If you feel that you still have questions about this pm me and i'll reopen it, otherwise, thread closed

iab, that wasnt the 25x25x25, that was much smaller, and there's more to it than moving around i thoroughly enjoyed it Cutler

I think Kings will have the ability to give out certain spells as rewards for players, they would likely be land-specific spells rather than protector ones like you were talking about though. So if you kept track of how long members had been in the alliance(actively) then they could be rewarded based on that?

HAHAHA love this bit; [i]and kids (baby goats!) [/i] the ! especially

Does the creature have 4 levels then? 1 WP to get to each level? And the WP activation gives you the "key" to open the next level? If reducing it to 2 WP, have one going to lvl 3? If reducing it to 3 WP, have one going to lvl 2, and 4?

[quote]As to the vote collectors being restricted from voting, I do not believe that would be necessary. If [i]all[/i] the votes cast are sent to each vote collector, then the chance of there being voting irregularities is reduced or eliminated. Even in other types of elections, poll workers are allowed to vote and I see no reason for it to be different here. With the low census that Magic Duel has at this time, each vote matters that much more. As far as the nominations go, as happened last year, one cannot nominate any of their own characters; all nominations must come from another with a complete disqualification penalty for those who choose to try to circumvent this rule. A similar rule should be observed for those who wish to vote multiple times from various accounts, eliminating their own chance for an award, any future award, and maybe even the potential publication of the names of all the associated accounts.[/quote]I'll take the first bit and apply that, the other two bits are said more eloquently than i did, and also apply. List of proposed awards for this year; Best Back Story Best Debater [s]Best Dojo Staff[/s] [s]Best Drunkard[/s] Best Fighter Best LHO Best Personal Papers Best [s]Quote[/s] PL Entry Best Protector [s]Best PWR[/s] Best Quest Best Quester Best Role Player [s]Best RPC[/s] Best Spell Caster Best Techie [s]Best Trader[/s] Best Villain [s]The Bob Award (for the person doing most in protecting or trying to attack Bob, Zleip excluded) Least Convincing Alt[/s] Most Addicted [s]Most Annoying[/s] Most Influential Outstanding Service to MagicDuel Rookie of the Year (between 20 and [s]80[/s] 100 AD) Veteran of the Year (must be on active vets list, only winnable once, inserted incase people like the idea) That's 18 awards there currently, which is 2 more than last year. *Removed ''Best Drunkard'', inserted ''Best Quester'' and ''Veteran of the Year'', extended AD on ''Rookie of the Year'' to 100 AD.

sent mine back in now as well

Like i said, Quester can be added as well, i have no objection to it. As a side note, just because you kept scores doesnt mean others did... Each person would be able to vote for one person per category, no alts are allowed to vote.

Bob Award removed, i'll wait on further responce on the AD

lol, Bob award is stated as being both for and against bob Since it's people voting, then it'd be up to them what counts as influential, so i was thinking that broad interpretation would be a good thing, if you disagree, suggest ones to cover each area within it? If people still dont want these, i'll remove

It's intentionally Best Quest. Quester can be added as well, but apart from quest creators, nobody would be able to vote on it really, as they wouldnt know. The AD is that cos i havent changed it from last awards, if people want the age to change then i dont mind too much. As a note, i havent really evaluated if those are good or bad ideas, just listed the suggested ones which hadnt been rejected by other people. LE: At this point, could a couple people message me if they want to help collect votes, that doesnt mean replying in this thread, it actually means pming me. Vote collecters cannot vote themselves. Having more than one vote collector means that there's not going to be any tampering of the votes. Votes should be sent to all, except if one is one of the judges, they would then not be messaged. Unless there are any altarations/objections to that?

List of proposed awards for this year; Best Back Story Best Debater [s]Best Dojo Staff[/s] Best Drunkard Best Fighter Best LHO Best Personal Papers Best [s]Quote[/s] PL Entry Best Protector [s]Best PWR[/s] Best Quest Best Role Player [s]Best RPC[/s] Best Spell Caster Best Techie [s]Best Trader[/s] Best Villain [s]The Bob Award (for the person doing most in protecting or trying to attack Bob, Zleip excluded)[/s] [s]Least Convincing Alt[/s] Most Addicted [s]Most Annoying[/s] Most Influential Outstanding Service to MagicDuel Rookie of the Year (between 20 and 80 AD) belated @ dst, if they help a lot but arent LHO's, send me their names That's 18 awards there currently, which is 2 more than the 16 last year.