Ivorak

I am deeply sorry I had to see Eon resign from a role I considered was perfectly fit for him and somehow I feel responsible for the situation.

I am also sorry that after such a long time, the council decisions are not respected as they should be. I would like to tell my view on this matter, please try learn from it something... try to be honest with yourselves while doing so.

The way I see it, both sides (Eon & Council) are right, and wrong, at the same time.

Eon invested a lot of passion in his role, and I believe he had no intention to cheat or abuse BHC in his favor. However, seen globally, the situation was not too good and demanded some sort of intervention, so Council did so.

Eon, your fault is that you should have anticipated this and avoid it...instead you just went along with it, thinking probably nothing can happen.

I gave Council the authority to override my decisions because I know they will do so only when its truly needed and on matters that I am not actively involved in. Because I am away from MD due to personal reasons (unrelated to md), the Council needs to step in on everything, and that includes to override things I set, if the situation demands it.

I try to think what i would have done if i were 'active' ... I think i would have probably told Eon "hey, whats going on, things don't seem right, we need to talk about it". Council can't afford a dialogue so to speak...but as I said Eon himself should have avoided such a situation in the first place.

I still believe Eon is the most suitable person for this role, but since he decided differently, what can i do..


Eon, your ego is as big as your stats..thats not so good.

It would be nice to halt the bhc event till an other warrior will cause enough 'trouble' and will be powerfull enugh to deserve this role ...


I will write in the next days something about council vs me situation, it is something i need t do, and this incident forces me in a way to xplain certain things.

This puts me in a somewhat awkward place.

I feel disappointed that the Council could not make an in game meeting, but their reasoning seems believable, and I do agree that a number of people would use it exclusively to determine their identities. I am willing to compromise on that. You addressed the issue at hand, which is what I most wanted.

Even though I still find anonymity distasteful, I will continue to maintain a degree of trust in Mur's original judgment and the Council's ongoing one.

There remains many questions that I would like answered and still consider critical to the realm's understanding of the Council, for instance, how many members and what current projects are rated most highly, but this new role perhaps puts me in a place to find and share the answers to those questions.

I remain as I was before unsatisfied with the Council and believe that a better job could be done, but it would be idiotic of me to turn down the position they offer, mainly because it puts me in a position to fix a good number of my issues: communication being the foremost. Creativity, it seems, is again crippled by coding, but that may find a solution sooner or later too.

I will say this upfront: I am human, and I will fail you at some point or another. I ask that when I do fail you, tell me, so that next time I can fail better.

So, I will accept this position and channel my burning desire to improve the realm into it. This is not an end to the Council-needs-change movement, it's a beginning.

[b]How I look in this role[/b]:
How to reach me:
1. I am available in game primarily, on most nights around 7:00 game time give or take a few hours, and available through messages, which will be replied to within a day unless I'm away on a vacation. It should be a no-brainer where to find me, I don't move. I regret that there's a gate that has such a high Action Point cost, but there's little I can do about that.
2. A forum message is a backup, but I would encourage you to find me in game. Who knows, you may have some fun. Remember fun?
3. YIM, email, etc. are not appropriate means of communicating with me. Those who have my YIM may continue to talk to me as usual (which... by usual I mean the barely ever you contact me), but I won't respond to requests related to this role. Apologies.

The information:
1. I will share whatever the Council provides me either in person, in message, or on the forum in the public board. I will not hoard or reserve information for myself. Those who know me know that I promote transparency, and seldom shirk a question.
2. I imagine that Chewett will open up a forum board so that I can carry out the updates that the Council asked for.

This changes little about my current role and function, i.e. expect that I remain a somewhat insane philosopher on the edge of the realm who will confuse you often.

But in communicating with the Council I will be clear and precise. That, I think, you all deserve.

And let's see if this lumbering beast can't be streamlined a little (read: a lot).

Awi

[cquote]
Part of how the council is built is with anonymity as part of its
structure, because of this sadly we cannot attend this meeting in person
nor in cloaks despite some of us really wanting to. This is something
Mur was very specific about and we will honour his wish with regards to
this. As some of you have raised on the topic, we all discuss the things
asked of us, any questions posed at such a meeting would lead to the
perspective of individual members, rather than us as a whole. Every
decision we make is made between us, so any individual view would not
represent the council as a whole, and multiple representatives would
just mean multiple individual views. In addition, our identities may be
easily determined by our speaking, like suggested, in game. If we were
to be publicly known then those of us in game would not be able to
effectively assess what is happening in the realm, as players would
modify their behaviour when we are around - much like players do when
Mur is. There is also a benefit to being anonymous when dealing with
players that are known to those of us in game, as we can be a lot more
impartial due to a lack of repercussion on familial relationships,
should we decide unfavourably towards them.

We are not coders. We try to manage requests and requirements and keep
the game functioning. We also have none the less tried consistently to
create and evolve things. The difficulty being that many things that are
creative require a substantial amount of coding time and the coders
available do not have a lot of time for the sheer amount of things that
would be ideally done. In addition, we are frequently receiving personal
requests from people for things which we have tried again and again to
accommodate. We add these to our lists of things to do and discuss them,
in doing so often other things are delayed but we are always impressed
and enthused by the community ideas and imagination for the things they
ask for and so we try to do these things so that you each might know
that even though we are slow to do them we still respect your wishes and
try our very best to accommodate them. Sadly we see that our accepting
them seems to suggest they will be done quickly, and this is just not
possible as there are other things we do for MD that have higher
priorities. While you may think two weeks is slow, in actuality with the
discussions as well as the coding restrictions we have, a month is a
fast change period. The MD Birthday Cake for example may have seemed
like a small and simple idea, but in reality it took a much larger
amount of time to get working properly than we initially perceived,
delaying other projects in an attempt to get this finished.

We enforce the rules of the game and, where needed, we will evolve
them. The new rules then take precedent over the old ones based on the
evolution of the game. MagicDuel would be empty without players as has
been said, but without a ruling force there would be chaos, and more
over it would die faster than the lack of players.

We have seen a number of people both in email and generally commenting
regarding Mur and his word vs ours. Please understand that Mur is still
the creator and owner of MagicDuel, and that will be the case no matter
what. He added us to his system himself, and with that he gave us
authority over MagicDuel in order to ensure that it continues - that
means, in terms of authority, we are equal to him. When he is not here
to keep things ticking, we are. This is not an easy task and we know
many of our decisions will be, and are, unpopular, but they are none the
less necessary. We know it can be aggravating to see some of these
decisions come to pass that you as players do not agree with. Please
understand that we do have members who watch what is going on and voice
player views, these are incorporated in the decision making process.

Often it is true that some of our decisions are delayed due to the
'hung jury' issue. This is because many of us are willing to stop and
listen to one person's disagreement and hear them out to see if we might
want to change the decision that was come to by the rest of us. This
frequently happens when a council member sees something a small group of
players have said and throws it into the conversation. Most requests,
and our own ideas, require a lot of consideration and discussion before
they might be transposed into the realm which hopefully helps you to
understand why things seemingly take a long time. We also have to
consider the implications of things we do, not just in terms of it's
popularity and how current players see something as good or bad, but
also along the lines of the game as a whole in it's future timeline with
the planned growth developments being taken into account. Many of the
things people may want to see fixed as soon as possible are put on a
back burner while something else takes priority, but when we are able we
take something you say and try to fix it, such as the PM titles on RE RE
RE issue that was brought up on the forum. We attempt to try and get
some of these quicker fixes into the game as they are brought up on the
forum so that the issue is dealt with fast, however this also slows down
other coding projects. In the Development Focus thread we are getting
your information regarding what you want done, so that we can prioritise
this better.

We feel that having an updates thread where the current information on
what we are working on is a great idea. We would like, if he will
accept, to have Awiiya as a direct go between, between ourselves and
yourselves the players. If he accepts, he would be kept up to date with
what we are working on, and will be able to talk to the players
regarding any issues they have or recommended improvements. Awiiya would
also be informed of what we are currently dealing with so that he can
respond to individual players questions regarding their queries since it
seems you want to be able to ask this information from a player. He
would be in charge of keeping a public thread updated so that people
know what stages of development features and items that we are working
on are at. Having multiple queries from multiple people come to us in a
single email makes it easier and quicker for us to respond to. This
would make the work of the council much more open and public, since he
would have the power to ask us for more information so that it is
distributed, instead of telling a multiple people the same information.
This person will also be in charge of telling us the public's mood,
arranging for polls and other collection of information, so that they
can tell us directly, "The people want this feature to be worked on
first". This will be easier for us and yourselves, since we can work on
something that "you" want done. If you have some issue with what is
currently being worked on, and wish to enquire why "your" feature isnt
being worked on, you can find Awiiya and talk to him directly.

We are sorry that many of you are frustrated. We are trying very hard
for you even if you cannot see it, or do not accept it. We spend many
hours trying to deal with MagicDuel's requirements in a fair and
balanced way. This, unfortunately, does take time, and we know ourselves
that this is frustrating.

MD Council[/cquote]

*revamp*
Two weeks passed, new input for the council before they decide?

I'd like the balance system to be tweaked until perfect balance is a highly desirable state of being again. That'd bring the balance back into the game, whereas it's only about heat losing now. More things to consider when fighting might make people less aggressive, and increase the value of combat again.

Agreed, that while I love the effort that Rumi is doing,. I think he's earned a WP for the pure reason of that effort, and the ripples that have spread from the Garden idea in general. Perhaps it's merely a different phrasing, but saying "[i]WP to change the subtitle[/i]" feels wrong to me.

(and yes, I was given a WP for some code help, that I asked Council to revoke as something valuable as a WP was not for the work I did, in private)

In Rumi's case, he's done some serious effort, both in MD that moved beyond the realm itself. Had people thinking about ecological sustainability and inter-relationships for perma-culturing, Many disciplines were discussed, from forestry, aquaculture, seasonal climates, Artwork requiring engineering validation and not aesthetics, just, wow!

... The whole Community Garden has gone [u]well beyond[/u] a simple quest to "describe a garden or draw a pretty picture", and I'd happily support granting an overall WP to him in "general".

Vote this up or down with the opinion arrows. Add commentary as you see fit.

Should I grant Rumi a wp for his efforts on the garden specifically so he can give the scene a "Community Garden" type subtext?

Notes: It might actually be necessary to grant it to somebody else with access to that wish shop function, not sure how deep it is buried, but it would be a reward for Rumi's efforts.

I do not wish to be accused of trying to help my own spirit-revive efforts via wp granting, so I'm throwing this out. Perhaps some other wp-granting agency would see fit to do this in my place if my own entanglement with the garden is unacceptable.

Thoughts?

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
I'm not necessarily 100% sure of One Leader to Rule Them All. What I like most about the idea, however, is that it gives us a central point to go to and talk with. And it allows us to give feedback in a far more manageable way. We don't currently have that.
[/quote]
Yeah, its much more useful if we can all go to complain to one single person... i wouldnt want to be that person because that would be hell. See my point RE rendril...


[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
How more efficiency - appoint someone to communicate with.
[/quote]
That says more paperwork to me lol. you essentially force someone to deal with the public, all the time. Have fun

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
How more creativity - appoint someone in the realm whose job it is to be fun and imaginative. Give them free reign. Let them be public, it's good to have characters that are in front of the scenes. Ask us.
[/quote]
Its all well and good saying "yeah we know what to do" I can claim that council needs to work on angiens and bring X Y Z into play. But the thing is that not everything can be done right away.

I really like the Development Focus threads because it gives us a chance to properly say "we would like X to be done first" because there isnt the time to do everything.

What about we, publically, appoint someone to collect ideas, and plans things together, and who relays these to the council? Personally i would think that they will be swamped with all interesting and cool ideas, none of which can be made because of time constraints.

How many of you honestly issue personal requests to council asking for this and that? Maebius mentions it. I was always under the impression that asking for personal stuff was considered bad form for Mur, and therefore iv applied it to council. But knowing people, i would bet numerous emails will still be asking for X and Y stuff.

Again, it falls back to, how much time do council have, and how are they currently using it, feedback is nice council

[quote name='awiiya' timestamp='1339712908' post='114806']
And yes. I do think it's a good idea for the Council to answer questions on the spot. It's not like we'll be asking them to decide the future of MD. More like, Who are you. What do you do. Do you see what we hate?
[/quote]

Whats the reasoning for "on the spot" answers? I see little use of them, apart from trying to "trick" them into revealing themselves, by saying some form of personal information that reveals who they are.

I can see a conversation saying, "yes we are watching" and pretymuch ending there, i dont really see what you want to ask. I personalyl want more information about waht they do, and what they are spending time doing. If X is taking a lot of their time, then we as a public could say "yeah just send offensive messages to everyone asking for personal requests" or something along that line.


[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
Note that Mur being away might be partly an experiment to see how MD handles itself for the most part; to see whether his brainchild has grown independent enough yet. I suspect that Mur may be trying to make MD self-sustaining and, more importantly, self-evolving without his input being necessary.[/quote]

Mur being away was not planned by Mur. End of discussion.

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
Replacing the council with anything without knowing the full extent of their duties is a [b]very[/b] bad idea. They are doing their job, slow and unpopular as it may be, it gets done. Anything new may not do it at all.
However, something must be done to fix the issues at hand.
[/quote]

Si, without knowing what they do, its relatively hard to judge if they are doing it badly. Its very easy to say someone is doing a bad job, when you are ignorant of what they do. You may say, for example, that chewett is very slow with doing forum related changes. But you might not know that i also handle forum backups, hosting details including talking with them, Skin modifications to fix forum related bugs, adding/removing features that invision decide need or dont need to be in it, run the wikia as a representative to wikia.com, and manage md-archives on the admin side, and make backups for it. Not to mention the various works that needs to be just done as the forum admin such as banning and other parts.

There is no one really that can judge what im doing, since no one else knows how long i spend on it, and such.

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
As a first step, we need to get the council to sit down and talk.
A discussion, in game or on the forum, is absolutely necessary to gather information about the situation at hand. For this, the council needs a permanent representative, even if this representative remains anonymous and is unable to make any promises or decisions. Master of Ceremonies would do for now, but probably not permanently.
[/quote]

again, people seem to think a "representative" is a good idea, maybe it is, who wants to be spammed to death.

Personally, i think awiyya would be an interesting rep, since they would be dealing with a tonn of rubbish. Although, my only concern in "nominating" them as forum rep, is that the timezone is bad for the majority of people, where most MD's are in EU time-zones.

[quote name='apophys' timestamp='1339720616' post='114814']
[b]I suggest that we also elect a representative for the talks[/b], so that the council representative is not swamped with questions from all sides. And we need to make a list of topics that our representative would bring up in talks.
[/quote]

An organiser, whome runs the event is a good idea, not someone speaks for everyone... need o say game manager again?

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' timestamp='1339749381' post='114831']
I'd assume whoever the council nominates as their mouthpiece (if they choose just one person, they do have the option of discarding annonymity as a whole, remember) that whoever they choose would become nothing But the mouthpiece.

ie still part of the council, in that they get all the correspondance, but they no longer get to make any decisions of their own in council matters.

Logically, I would assume they just get whoever is doing the job of forum mouthpiece to extend the role into MD >.>
But that is just me <.<

All that said, from my interaction with the council I strongly suspect that it is organized so that certain types of tasks are handled by individuals. So it isn't necessarily the whole council that isn't working right.
[/quote]

again, we dont really know how the council works, a meeting or post to at least explain a few things to us would be nice. I dont really care which format its in, just information is wanted by us peasants lol

[b]tl;dr: Mixed feelings. Efficiency and slightly improved Public relations may be needed. Maybe make an alt or "mini-announcement Forum" for better transparency in activity, while keeping Final Answers as they are now, just quicker. Still, Thank you for keeping the game running so we can have this debate to begin with.[/b]

My feeling on this is mixed. I don't know the council, never tried to worry who or how many were there, and assumed they were also in charge of "coding stuff" and "admisitrative stuff" as Chewett mentioned for forums and wikias and general logistics. They are busy, important folks!

However, I do agree that they are probably either too few in number or rather over-worked currently. I have no evidence to back this up other than the rather long period of time between any emails being answered, and the necessity of sending "reminder" messages if I don't hear back within a month.

Granted, not all my personal pet projects are worthy of more than a one-line reply, but I wonder if there's some sort of "email workorder/ticket system" to track requests? I know I've asked the same question more than once and gotten a "No, we never received this before, but thanks for asking.." (when I know because I saved the "we got it, please wait a week" form-letter replies.)
Add to this the relative Silence on the forums lately in response to Big Dramatic Events ™ and I just think they may be overworked or acting somehow like a "hung jury" behind the scenes, trying to reach consensus.

So, Efficieny may be the most important thing to work with?
Public relations may need a tweak too, and I'm not quite sure how to go about such things.

Perhaps, a simple forum, similar to "Announcements" where someone with Voice of Council could post "[i]we see this happening, and are watching current resolutions[/i]." type comments. This would not really Change the situation itself, but would at least reflect that there is Activity or Discussion happening, rather than silence. [size=2](There's some theorum about silence being frustrating because it means either no one read it or no one cared to reply, and that uncertainty is more irritating than a non-committal answer, but I can't cite that at the moment)[/size] The phrase "I Hear You" is an imporant one in therapy, after all, for soothing unbalanced emotions.

In terms of losing MagicDuel's soul, I disagree, I have seen the realm as being in the hands of us players from the first week I started playing, as long as we play by the general Framework of Mur's Outline (which seems to be, "[i]play how ya want, unless we say no[/i]"). I missed the RPC days, but heard grand stories of Items being created out of thin air for folks who made them "real" in their playing. I've heard grand stories of, well, Stories. I've heard it said that Mur would allow sneaky creative things, then make a rule to prevent it, but the original Creative Thing was[i] almost[/i] welcomed. I wonder if that sort of dynamic Manifestation of Us could be encouraged somehow? Maybe MD has changed in "soul". What made it change? us? Council? Surely not Mur taking a vacation. It's self sustaining now.

As far as the statements about one Game Maanger being a bad idea? I'm suspect of that statement as True in a general sense.
To horribly simplify things, the Roman Empire did great under one Head Guy. Hitler did some impressive things for Germany (ignoring the BIG BAD THING). Napoleon Bonaparte rocked his world too. Mur build this realm for us. Just because one Leader is bad, does not mean all are.
Perhaps ONE dedicated or thick-skinned individual could create an alt, or use Master of Ceremonies as an example, and at least Watch. This relates back to Public Relations I mentioned.

For all Land and Role and Event things, Mur always asks for one point of contact, yes? Maybe that's needed in reverse?

To conclude though, regardless of the issues, The Council is (I think) made up of players like us. Their role is most likely a labour of love, without pay. They may need a bit of restructuring or shift in keeping the Spirit of MD running smoothly, but they do a lot to physically keep the game of MD running, and for that I thank them.

Z, I agree completely. IF the Council makes an appearance, use Master of Ceremonies... This would be a Ceremony, no? Just... not a good one.


The Council is on Trial.

As far as I can see, the public is starting to question your decisions. People are demanding answers. Perhaps, you should answer... within a TIMELY manner.

Awiiya gave that as one idea, to have one person 'out' themselves.


If a representative doesn't jive, why not create character/s (insert creativity here) who are council members who can meet and have a face (and *still* remain anonymous) people can actually talk to and negotiate with.

I don't think MD can afford to _not_ have this happen!

Oh, and there should be lots of tomatoes and a dunk tank constructed, as well as some rope (I'm still waiting to hang Jester) XD
And someone be sure to pilfer the pub for booze.
This is serious, but that doesn't mean that it can't be met with a sense of humor.

It doesn't matter how creative you are, at the end of the day the BHC essentially uses the same system as the HC. Your goal: Attack people for their heads and then run away.

1. We have a very small active community, at least to me and everyone else I speak to through the forum and yim, along with what I witness others say in chat.

2. Not many members of the MD community are super active fighters. Yes, you have the small group of people who actively train all the time, but it's really not all that much. A lot of members seem to be mostly into roleplay and questing when one they like comes up. These guy's tend to set up exp loss defenses for people who enjoy training, and also train their own creatures from time to time, but I'd hardly call people like that people who are really into the whole mindless fighting thing. I'd call them go with the flow types, and people who wouldn't really be interested in sitting at the computer around the clock hunting and hiding.

3. Like I wrote earlier, the BHC system is basically the same as the HC. You attack people for heads and run away. This is exactly how the game is played, although you do get to roleplay heads in the BHC. Now does it really seem like such a small community with an even smaller group of fighters would get a large turnout in a BHC event? No, it sounds like the event would get an extremely small turnout.

Don't try to tell me I should have been creative. Putting the heads hill in a different spot wouldn't have made the event much more fun. Making it strictly in one small location wouldn't have made it much more fun. That last one would probably decrease the amount of fighters even more. Imagine how many mirror rits would be used up on me or lightsage if we all fought fairly close to each other. Fighters would either go broke from buying mirror stones or they'd just have to give up since they wouldn't really be able to take us most of the time, at least in the beginning. Let's also not forget that being stuck in a small area with skilldamage around and actively being used tends to be a turnoff for most.

I believe it's fairly easy to see that unless the system was changed drastically on a regular basis, it's just going to get stale for most people. Maybe I'm wrong, but if people think I am then they should try to apply to be the new Boss Heads Master. Let's see how many people you guy's can bring to the table.

Why didn't I suspend the contest before it started? There are no refunds in the BHC (I didn't make up the rule, and I also don't get any of the coins/items people give to enter), and I didn't feel it would be fair to the fighters who already signed up.

Why not say "This BHC/side event won't start before 20 people sign up"? Do you realize how long that would take? Like we've seen time and time again, the majority aren't even interested in participating fully. So the people who are truly interested should wait until everyone else who isn't that interested shrugs and say's "What the hell, I may as well try to help this thing get going." That could be a waiting period of many months, and when it finally starts the players who might have been extremely interested in competing could very well have other things to do and won't have the time to compete anymore.

I wasn't looking to screw players over in the BHC, so the chance of me suspending the competition and saying "Sorry, you just wasted a gold coin for nothing," wasn't likely to happen.

With so little demand for the BHC it's probably best that it just get's removed from the game. It'll always end up coming down to about 3-6 active players (I'm feeling generous, otherwise I'd probably put it at 3-4)

My punishment was deserved? I really don't see it that way. I'm the type who usually follows guidelines to a T. I was given guidelines, and I wanted to follow them for the most part. Mur considers this game his life's work, or so he say's on the forum, and I feel I should follow it the way he outlined for me. You can say "you should have improved on it and made it better," but I'd like to point you back to the top of my post where I outline how easy it is to see how boring the same type of system for a fighting event becomes over time, and I'd love to see someone step up and prove me wrong.

My punishment came from me following guidelines I was given when I received my role, and possibly for the community not being interested in competing in a copy of the same system as the HC while now having to fight against the strongest players in the game. If more punishments would follow low turnouts/few people actively competing or something else that is bound to happen pretty much every single time, I have no doubt I would have lost a trust point for every next BHC, and possibly any side events in the future. There is no point if their just itching to rid me of my trust points.

If you want sugar coating I suggest you visit a candy shop. I am very blunt when I speak or write to people, and I've exchanged so many messages with the council on a number of subjects that I will no longer speak "nicely" to them. It's like when you call up the customer service hotline for a product you recently bought and then you get some guy in India who has very little knowledge of the product, puts you on hold for a long period of time, and then all of a sudden after waiting for 45 minutes the call gets dropped, or he/she just hangs up. You then call back and eventually give them a piece of your mind because your fed up with them.

Yrth, you walked away from kingship because you couldn't handle me. You also "threw the rattle out of the pram" (I'm guessing that means threw a temper tantrum) because I was given a medal for slaying you. I'll say the same to you, It's probably best you walked away, because you obviously didn't care about GG, right? I mean, if anyone walks away they automatically didn't care about their previous role, at least that seems to be the way you see things, or that was my interpretation of what you wrote.

Let's also remember that I respected my power enough not to abuse it, while you on the other hand abused your power and lost a trust point. You could claim I abused my power by winning, but in actuality I never used any of my BHC abilities (I really only have the legislator to move people to my location or scatter them) to win that contest. I just walked into the TB and idled while everyone did their own thing, and even got a present from lightsage. I have a strong feeling the majority of people don't believe I actually abused my power to win.

hmm intresting but i can see both sides of the argument.
EON sorry but your attitude is a big issue in this that i can see.

in game yrth wants vengence on you but after all you are the evil one in his eyes.
out of game and from what little i see of you talking sorry but i cannot respoect someone whom is so blantly obnoxious
and has a whole mighter then thou attatued.

Out of game i have no issues with you hell i dont care much for what you have to say and i have never had to interact with you.

in game you where given a role to manage and run and make fun. 3/4 people playing in the BHc one of them beeing you
how is that not setting yourself up for winning? you are by far stronger then most in game and cause a lot of damage.
a compition of just3/4 is not a competition. that is far to few and putting your self in is fine but doing it and gaining
from it is just pure abuse of what you are suppose to be doing.

If you are serious about walking away it just shows to me how you did not actualy care about running the BHC
and now that the council took a trust point (that so far i see as a valid thing to do) you throw the rattle out of the pram.
so far the picture i see of you is of one whom is a spoilt brat.

I wish i could say something nicer but i cant as in game i see you as a bully and so far out of game well i already said
what i see.

Ether way walk away to me it is best that you do.

All i see is people moaning and not actualy suggest much to reslove thing and making treath
sorry but i though Awi you better then silly things like that. i start loosing respet of thoes
the complain and do nothing it is just sad

[quote name='Rhaegar Targaryen' timestamp='1339651987' post='114696']
Wow wow wow people. We can argue a lot of council's decisions, but this one was spot on.
They presented some problems regarding BHC:
-Lack of people competing
-Conflict of interests due to Eon participating in a contest which rules he forms

All they did was point that out and offer few suggestions (and decrease a trust point from Eon, but he would have had them more left, and it's kinda deserved, because of the mentioned points and the general discontent of the public).
As soon as he got that, he rage-quits.
It is Eon's job to make the BHC work, it's not his private property.

Sure, we all understand Eon's "uneasiness" regarding council's lack of doing/fixing things, but it's the case with all of us, not just with him. There's even an urban myth that Dst and Eon get all of their requests done!

Okay, you don't like the council, but be objective.


Edit: We all know Mur is absent for quite some time, and we don't know for how much longer will it be the case. The authority of MD at the moment is the council, they are supposed to make sure things work, so, change certain details if things are going wrong in some situations. Eon hiding behind "Mur said so" and "Mur is my captain" mask is not that elegant at all.
[/quote]
If it was just expressing concerns it would be alright.. but taking a trust point is a form of punishment.. for stuff in which I believe Eon is not at fault at all. He can't really have done anything regarding the lack of contestant, and he's only done things he was told to/allowed to after all. Taking a trust point here was a mistake in my opinion; I don't see which "trust" have been broken.

Wow wow wow people. We can argue a lot of council's decisions, but this one was spot on.
They presented some problems regarding BHC:
-Lack of people competing
-Conflict of interests due to Eon participating in a contest which rules he forms

All they did was point that out and offer few suggestions (and decrease a trust point from Eon, but he would have had them more left, and it's kinda deserved, because of the mentioned points and the general discontent of the public).
As soon as he got that, he rage-quits.
It is Eon's job to make the BHC work, it's not his private property.

Sure, we all understand Eon's "uneasiness" regarding council's lack of doing/fixing things, but it's the case with all of us, not just with him. There's even an urban myth that Dst and Eon get all of their requests done!

Okay, you don't like the council, but be objective.


Edit: We all know Mur is absent for quite some time, and we don't know for how much longer will it be the case. The authority of MD at the moment is the council, they are supposed to make sure things work, so, change certain details if things are going wrong in some situations. Eon hiding behind "Mur said so" and "Mur is my captain" mask is not that elegant at all.

I'm resiging from my BHC position. I decided to post why, and show how the council and I don't see eye to eye when it comes to my position.

This is an email from them and my response to them.

If you feel like reading it, first read the council's email at the bottom. My responses are at the top.

Feel free not to post, what you have to say really means very little to me.


"> We didn't reply previously as you deemed to start the contest without
> hearing back from us."

Which according to the creator of MagicDuel, Mur, I had every right to. We've spoken about my BHC role many times in the past, and none of you apparently have any idea what he has told me.

"The BHC's with skilldamage are run too regularly."

From my coversations with Mur I was given the impression that skilldamage is supposed to be rewarded for every BHC. If I remember correctly skilldamage is suppose to make the "Strongest" player weaker over time, because no one will want to train with the person. Had I never recieved skilldamage I'd be about 5-10 times stronger than I am now, meaning my attack stat would be in the tens of millions. Kind of makes sense, although I'm also not willing to join little training groups, so that also has put a damper on my training in the past. Also, every BHC in history has given skilldamage so it's very easy to believe that's how it's supposed to go.
.....................................................................................
"Rewards of the BHC should be appropriate to the contest being
> run, Skilldamage is an exclusive ability right now and not to be given
> out lightly. This contest in which participation was minimal and without
> effort exerted by the players was undeserving of skilldamage as a
> reward. Instead it was a contest in which you effectively set yourself
> up to win again and receive additional skilldamage which is
> unacceptable."

Are you people really that stupid? I set myself up to win it again? What proof do you have that I specifically set it up to win skilldamage again? Oh, that's right, you don't have any, you're just assuming that's what happened. Yeah, you guy's are perfect examples of people who shouldn't be leading MD. You people obviously know nothing and yet make assumptions based on no real proof.

Like I just stated, I was under the impression every BHC was supposed to give skilldamage as a reward. How could I have known there was going to be such a low turnout? Oh, that's right, I couldn't have known that. I set up the sign ups, I can't force people to join this.

From what I hear, a lot of people were just too busy in real life at the time to sign up and give it much of an effort, so they decided not to sign up at all. Another group of people don't sign up because their weak and don't feel they have much of a chance in these competitions.

Skilldamage? Seriously, why the hell would I care if I gain more skilldamage or not? I had 93 skilldamage and then it went up by 20. The effects of skilldamage are supposed to be capped at 100, so in essence I gained 7 skilldamage points. It turns out it's not actually capped, but I figured Mur was still working on putting the cap on it, therefore it would soon enough just be capped at 100. So you think I threw this thing just for 7 skilldamage stats? I get 6 just from a single shop reset.

Lets also take a look at my battling history over the past I don't know, 5 months? Take a good look at how little I battle. Why would I possibly care if I gained a few more points in skilldamage if I often don't even attack the same person more than 5 times in a day? Hell, i doubt I usually attack the same person even three times a day now. I even look at Ignnus sometimes and say "screw it" before deciding to just go idle instead of attacking him.

So answer me this, where do you people get off saying that I effectively set this up just so I could win it and gain more skilldamage? Skilldamage is pretty damn worthless to me, and despite what other players might say, I have no ability to see into the future. There's not only no proof, but there is also no motive for me trying to set this up so I could specifically win, at least when it comes to skilldamage. I didn't have the golden medal yet, but I'll tell you in the next few sentences how little I cared whether I won this thing or not.

Guess how active I was during this entire BHC. You done guessing? I was active between 3-8 percent of the time. Do you realize how incredibly easy it would have been for people to beat me in this? GoE,SendtoMur'sgate (whatever that spell is called), Lighthouse, tea, alliances, cooperation. i could have been beaten so damn easy it's ridiculous. Lightsage actually came to my location in the east when I was sleeping and gave me his ball of heads through Roleplay. The few times I actually got sent to the GoE was when I had just gotten home and was checking my computer. Bummer for Seig on that one.

You can even ask Lightsage or Shadow about it. I mentioned to both during the competition that I was leaving to go to some parties. That's what I do. I'm not interested in staying around sitting at the computer all day, and I especially wouldn't give MD that much attention. My MD addiction is buried in the past.

"You quoted that Mur asked you to run BHC's every X months. Do not do
> that. The purpose of your role is not to run BHC for the sake of running
> it."

Mur told me to run side events every two months and a BHC every four months. I said "No," because I thought that was too soon for a BHC, so I decided to throw them every six months. 6 months gives people plenty of time to train and get their stuff in order, and I don't consider it that short of a time period. I was willing to go a little farther than Mur wanted, but I won't go that far.
..........................................
"> Mur gave you permission to do what you want with the BHC. That means
> doing anything within reason. It also means you are fully responsible
> for anything you do. As BHC organiser it is your job to source rewards
> and deal with the whole of the BHC accordingly. This means that if you
> want a reward from us you must contact us, and get it approved before
> announcing it. If you announce it earlier without our approval we may
> deny it. We know the relative worth of all the creatures in MD whereas
> you do not have access to this information. If you announce
> items/creatures before our approval we shall assume you are giving them
> out yourself. In addition, it is your job to give out the rewards once
> we have given them to you. Before announcing a BHC you must email us the
> details of any special rewards you want to issue that need us to issue
> them to yourself and then await a confirmation of our agreements on the
> details of it. For this reason we advise you provide us details more
> than the 5 days prior to the event you emailed us this time. If your BHC
> does not need support from us then you can run it as fast as you like."

I was told that if he was ever unreachable when I was going to throw a BHC I could email the council the details and that was it. I specifically asked along the lines of, "Do I have to wait for them to get back to me before throwing the BHC or side event?", and I was told that I didn't have to wait.

You guy's weren't informed of that? Too bad, you're the council, you should already be informed of this stuff. It's not my problem that you leaders don't have your stuff together. Trust me, I'm not the only player who thinks of you guy's like that.
............................................

"> We also ask you (as we believe you have already been asked) not to
> participate to win the BHC, we feel you should not participate to win as
> you cannot fairly judge and be a member of the contest. People should
> not be complaining about your authority in BHC, which they do have a
> point to complain about if you are running in it and disqualifying
> people. Although, in ignnus case, we did remove him from a location as
> well, so we agree entirely with your action here. As was intended you
> can still compete in the contest for fun and to make the contest more
> challenging. If it is necessary we will, but we hope that in future you
> manage the contest better so that we do not ever have to mechanically
> implement it so that you physically cannot win the contest if you
> compete in it."

I was told I could participate, so I do. I have no memory of being told not to compete to win. I value Mur's words over everyone else's anyway, so it wouldn't really matter. Also, this is supposed to be a contest to determine the best of the best right? If I'm not breaking any of the rules I set in place, you should allow the others to compete against the best of the best. I'm not going to just compete to compete. I'm not going to compete without any chance of me being able to win whatsoever, that means I automatically lose, and someone who isn't the best falsely receives a medal for being the best, only because one of the very best couldn't compete. Why don't we just rename the competition to HC2 and give everyone medals already.

I can't fairly judge and be a member of the contest? Have I ever broken any of the rules I set up for the competition? Let's see... nope. I don't go into restricted locations, do anything that prevents me from being attackable, or anything else I ever put in place that could have possibly altered the competition in an unnatural way.

When I was accused of once being unnatackable because an Elu was popping up on my def I immediately gave it to DST.

I believe the majority of people feel I've been fair when it comes to dealing out punishments for any of my events. The people who getr punished obviously aren't too happy, but what I notice in chat tends to show me that people agree with my decisions.

I don't see any reason I wouldn't be able to participate when I hold myself to the same exact rules as everyone else. Seems like your just caving to pressure from others.
................................................
"> This BHC participants merely sat around and didn't fight to win, this
> is ridiculous to happen in the BHC, it should be a battle of the best
> fighters and not of who can sit in the Tribunal the longest. Do you
> think it would be better if the fighting was more compact? Do you think
> you could be given any tools to make BHC better?"

Aww... simply adorable. That fantasy will never happen. People can win the BHC over and over again, therefore weaker fighters and decent fighters won't believe they have any chance of beating the elites, meaning you lose a big bunch of possible fighters right there. Real life gets in the way so sometimes that cuts out some major players as well. You know what's left? Often 10 players or less. Do you know how many of them are actively fighting in the BHC? 3-6 usually. Other players tend to get bored and go do something else. At the end of the day a head contest is still a head contest. It's the HC, but anyone can participate and possibly win. You want it to be statless? Alright, but it's not really going to be the best verse the best is it? The best have now been weakened 10000 fold. It's like all their grinding was for nothing. It always makes me laugh when people say "Eon should throw an HC for each different land". Do they realize how few people there are in other lands? Do they realize things would probably play out between people who generally get along well? I can imagine Loreroot's right now... "Nimrodel gives all heads to Shem, Lorerootian gives all heads to shem, Lorerootian gives all heads to Shem." We already know who the strongest is, and I highly doubt they'd really fight against each other, let alone in high numbers. I havebn't noticed Shem playing much anymore, but I'm pretty sure they'd do the same for some other Lorerootian, The same goes for all other lands. At least with my land cup event an entire land could have tried to work together and help their champion win. I saw Nimrodel giving Shem a bunch of heads, so they knew how to work together and win. I thought more people would have tried to ensure their lands champion won but I guess I was wrong about that, although it was a far better event than one would be if it was just for a single land.

People could have gotten me out of the tribunal or gotten to me very easy. It's called cooperation, along with a bunch of other things. People were either too lazy, too stupid, or they didn't want to get first place.

I like making events compact, but I like giving BHC fighters the freedom to go almost anywhere. I believe a lot of strategy can be used for chasing others, and I like to have that in the BHC. I do enjoy compact fighting, although I think it would also less sign ups overall. Who wants to be stuck in a little zone with me or anyone else like me? Weaker players at least figure they can get my heads and try to make a run for it.

No tools really come to mind. Like I said ealier, a BHC or event is basically an HC. The main difference is that they often have themes, or they have very, very small twists to them, like more points to the second stage, a longer second stage, or more head hills/head hill at a different spot. Not to mention they used to have great prizes.
...................................
"> For your mismanagement of the BHCs to date, we have decreased your
> Trust Points by 1 and we will be removing the skill damage awarded. We
> will give you the rewards for the other participants as these issues do
> not concern them and have not come about as a result of anything they
> have done."

I'd accept that from Mur, although I don't think he'd say the same and I wouldn't really agree with him. I don't accept it from you people.

My mismanagement? I've managed the way I was told to.

You dislike the low turnouts? Like I've said a few times and I'll say again, and probably again... The BHC is essentially the HC. How does the saying go? If you put lipstick on a pig it's still a pig? People bitched and moaned for another HC that they could participate in and they got it. Now no one really cares for it. I don't believe people were so blind they didn't see this coming.

You don't like the prizes I announce? Too bad, I try to do things close to what Mur has told me to. When I asked him for a GG drach for the clash of the lands side event he said something along the lines of "Okay, but that would be too small of a prize for the BHC." GG=pretty rare. pretty rare= too low for the BHC= I guess I have to go higher. Simple to understand, no?

I don't agree with the punishment obviously.

I take it you would have rather me done nothing while Lightsage idled in the MDA for an easy victory? Yeah, that's much better.


"> In regards your enquiry about use of items during your BHC, we will not
> be mechanically blocking their use. This gives you greater flexibility
> to make the contest harder or easier or even just more or less
> complicated for the participants. It is up to you to implement any rules
> for your contests and to enforce those rules.
> "

I look forward to seeing you guy's throw a competition where Seig uses his cloak the entire time. Maybe you guy's will understand how things work in MD once you start getting bitched at for allowing something so abuseable to be used.

I wouldn't kick anyone out of the contest simply because Seig, or anyone else for that matter, cloaks them and makes them unnatackable. That would be pretty ridiculous.
...................................................

"> The above email overrides everything Mur has previously told you, none
> of what he asked holds greater than the above email. If there are any
> issues with things you feel should be kept the same, please comment as
> we would like your discussion on this"

No matter what, even if you bought this game from Mur and are it's new owners, I would still value every ingle thing Mur has told me over you. I respect Mur, and I have zero respect for you. You people take forever on things that could be handled incredibly fast. I've given you solid proof on many occasions and yet you took over a month to handle most issues. You refused to even get back to me about the shared tool hoarding, or maybe it was before the council rotation, and I had to go above your heads and talk to Mur to have things handled. I know Mur was slow, but didn't he get a council together so you guy's could handle things a bit faster than he could? If you guy's can't handle the simplest things in a timely manner you should probably just step down and let people who can actually get things going in MD get the chance to do just that.

Oh, and don't worry about reducing my trust points by one. You can take them all, I resign from the position, and I promise to watch from a distance so I can watch how the number of active players in your BHC ends up dwindling down over time.

You guy's can feel awesome being on the council all you want, but keep in mind, you're the council for MagicDuel. When I put it that way it sounds a hell of a lot less impressive, doesn't it?

I'll be posting this on the forum so people know why I've resigned.


> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:48:55 +0300
> From: contact@magicduel.com
> To: x
> Subject: Re: BHC
>
>
> Hello Eon
>
> We didn't reply previously as you deemed to start the contest without
> hearing back from us. We have been reviewing BHC and it has been lacking
> in participants. There needs to be more next time if there is going to
> be a Skilldamage reward. We are open as to your comments on how to get
> more players competing.
>
> The BHC's with skilldamage are run too regularly. We have been talking
> between us and are open to a discussion as to how it can be improved,
> but we feel that they should be run less, with more small "fun"
> contests. Rewards of the BHC should be appropriate to the contest being
> run, Skilldamage is an exclusive ability right now and not to be given
> out lightly. This contest in which participation was minimal and without
> effort exerted by the players was undeserving of skilldamage as a
> reward. Instead it was a contest in which you effectively set yourself
> up to win again and receive additional skilldamage which is
> unacceptable.
>
> You quoted that Mur asked you to run BHC's every X months. Do not do
> that. The purpose of your role is not to run BHC for the sake of running
> it. If that was the purpose it would have been an automated contest like
> regular HC, running them statically merely means the number of
> participants will slowly reduce. You could have the signup times be
> delayed so that there is an adequate amount of participants each time,
> and change the contest around. You might think to run small ones for MP3
> or other specific mindpowers. The "main" BHC should be run rarely, once
> for every 3 or 4 times that a smaller one has been run. This is your
> role, but these are some of our suggestions for changes you can make to
> try to help you so as to ensure you balance participation along with
> reward and so that you can run contests of different kinds on a regular
> basis.
>
> Quote: "My job is to throw the BHC, how the winners get the prizes
> isn't my problem."
>
> Mur gave you permission to do what you want with the BHC. That means
> doing anything within reason. It also means you are fully responsible
> for anything you do. As BHC organiser it is your job to source rewards
> and deal with the whole of the BHC accordingly. This means that if you
> want a reward from us you must contact us, and get it approved before
> announcing it. If you announce it earlier without our approval we may
> deny it. We know the relative worth of all the creatures in MD whereas
> you do not have access to this information. If you announce
> items/creatures before our approval we shall assume you are giving them
> out yourself. In addition, it is your job to give out the rewards once
> we have given them to you. Before announcing a BHC you must email us the
> details of any special rewards you want to issue that need us to issue
> them to yourself and then await a confirmation of our agreements on the
> details of it. For this reason we advise you provide us details more
> than the 5 days prior to the event you emailed us this time. If your BHC
> does not need support from us then you can run it as fast as you like.
>
> We also ask you (as we believe you have already been asked) not to
> participate to win the BHC, we feel you should not participate to win as
> you cannot fairly judge and be a member of the contest. People should
> not be complaining about your authority in BHC, which they do have a
> point to complain about if you are running in it and disqualifying
> people. Although, in ignnus case, we did remove him from a location as
> well, so we agree entirely with your action here. As was intended you
> can still compete in the contest for fun and to make the contest more
> challenging. If it is necessary we will, but we hope that in future you
> manage the contest better so that we do not ever have to mechanically
> implement it so that you physically cannot win the contest if you
> compete in it.
>
> This BHC participants merely sat around and didn't fight to win, this
> is ridiculous to happen in the BHC, it should be a battle of the best
> fighters and not of who can sit in the Tribunal the longest. Do you
> think it would be better if the fighting was more compact? Do you think
> you could be given any tools to make BHC better?
>
> For your mismanagement of the BHCs to date, we have decreased your
> Trust Points by 1 and we will be removing the skill damage awarded. We
> will give you the rewards for the other participants as these issues do
> not concern them and have not come about as a result of anything they
> have done.
>
> In regards your enquiry about use of items during your BHC, we will not
> be mechanically blocking their use. This gives you greater flexibility
> to make the contest harder or easier or even just more or less
> complicated for the participants. It is up to you to implement any rules
> for your contests and to enforce those rules.
>
> The above email overrides everything Mur has previously told you, none
> of what he asked holds greater than the above email. If there are any
> issues with things you feel should be kept the same, please comment as
> we would like your discussion on this.
>
> MD Council

My recent favourite is going through those fascinating Logs.

I find it extremely entertaining to pour over them, and see what people are up to, what things they are doing, and who has what creatures now.

Also iterate alongside Lightsage, what if I wanted one alive, but not the other?

If you are going to challenge me, B, you might as well give fact to bolster your claim.

So please, enlighten me. Which ally exactly has done anything particularly noteworthy? As far as I know, Fyrd can make his quests and run them easily [and is doing just that] without the necessities of a badge.

Yes, I was. And I did request the day after to be put back in, with no response. So again, you really have no one to blame but yourself. I'm not saying I condone tactless disturbances to alliances, but that instead of whining about it, take what you got and work with it.

Maybe even, the ally would have been better off with a take over anyway. At least it would still be around.

In this case, the clicky is an all or nothing deal.

Get one, or get none.

[quote name='Burns' timestamp='1339480890' post='114440']
Or you simply have to accept that you don't know everything, either, had you bothered to ask somebody who has such a charm (me) they(i)'d have gladly told you that the drachorn is simply out of kill and revive items. They are all taken already.
[/quote]

omfg, i even explained mine posts and again got interpreted in wrong way, let me try again

i said that it was supposed to be made that those items spawn there, but that isnt made yet, i freakin know that drach run out of items, or in otherwords regular item spawn in there aint implemented yet, but murry did mention during md bday fest about kill/revive items to be more accessible in that fashion

i wasnt in any way refferin to current state of situation in lair, but rather to yet not implemented one

Ah, okay, my bad. He did not claim to be your alt. I just thought the name was so simillar and I know you have alts for bugtesting and such....also, you being dead and all...

[quote name='Rumi' timestamp='1339440372' post='114375']
Chwyl (Chewett Alt I suppose) has donated a GG drachorn for the community garden.
[/quote]

That is not my alt, please do not suppose anyone is my alt without asking me personally.

If he is claiming to be my alt please tell me.

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]I'm more disgusted that those with the revival items don't step forward and offer healing without charging a crazy amount to revive. It shows the kind of people there are in MD. [/font][/color]

I think that is a great idea Rumi. Though it almost makes the revival items completely pointless as I believe they have a cool down period that lasts as long as the cool down on the kill items.

lets play it safe and kill seighart again, he already returned from dead so he is our best bet for bringin all dead players back to life