So, we moved to a different domain, slightly different forum software due to its licence and changed options. Now let the bug reports flow.
I am sure there are still issues with it, so if you encounter any please post it, so me or @Chewett can work to fix them.
The new forum has several advantages over the old one, and i am hoping to finally be able to make it bring new players in MD. The old forum had a traffic restriction, and possibly the google rankings where severely affected by it.
Also, as a future plan, i intend to connect the forum much better with the game itself, and i already have a list of ideas i want to implement.
..but first lets make it work as it is
I really hope you like the new domain, myself i like it very much, i am glad i could find such a domain.
Hi all. Since I produced quite a stupendous amount of text, this will come in parts (since I do need time to study and other things too). Please feel free to move, I was not sure if it was appropriate to post this in the "Quests and Contests" subforum.
Feedback is more than welcome, please try to stay constructive. If you feel that I missed something, point out where and what you think should be added.
Pardon fancy language. I may or may not have been under the influence of beverages at the time of production. Without further ado, here is the first part, about quest design and sponsorships. The part about judging & rewarding is still a work in progress. Text Wall ahead.
Questmaker’s Etiquette Guide
With various fantabulous tips, tricks, do’s and don’t’s
Glorious Introduction
Here we shall look at 3 major topics regarding making, holding and rewarding a quest, particularly for the realm of MagicDuel, as follows:
Quest Design
What is good design? What is bad design?
Accessibility. Types of quests. Target audience. Tips for a few types of frequently-held quests.
How and when to announce quests. Miscellaneous.
Sponsorships
Short tips about who and how to approach for sponsorships.
List of rough values of certain items and creatures (maybe).
Quest Judging and Rewarding
Single blinding, Double blinding and other judging paraphernalia.
Rewarding: do’s and don’t’s, who and how to approach for help.
"How to". Quick guide to help you jumpstart your quest. (This will be a skeleton only! To help you guide your own creativity, not to be used as given!)
Case studies (maybe).
I shall point to a few quests (mine, unless someone else volunteers their own quests and experience with them) and try to dissect out the good and the bad.
One thing to keep in mind is that throughout this guide I shall ask questions. These are to provoke thought rather than to demand an answer. There is no correct or incorrect answer in general (with a few exceptions), but there will be a correct answer for your quest. You just have to think how that question relates to your quest (think about how your quest would answer that question, not about what answer I want to hear, if that helps).
Quest Design
Briefly put, in MagicDuel there are a few things to keep in mind as a questmaker. Some are obvious, some are not, some are counterintuitive. I will also look at a few specific structures of quests that pop up frequently and suggest tips for them, if they are to be used as templates. I shall also attempt to discuss how to tailor your quest to a target audience while keeping in mind the idea of accessibility, and a few suggestions about how to make announcements regarding quests.
What is good design? What is bad design?
In a nutshell, a quest that is well designed will run smoothly. It will not need adjustments on the way, it will not need the direct intervention of the questmaker to resolve issues, it cannot be cheated, and there is no unintended interaction between participants (spoiling or sabotaging).
It’s vague, unfortunately, and it will vary for each quest types. But here are a few things you can do, or questions you should try to have an answer to:
Try and test whatever can be tested.
Do your clickables function, if any?
Is the quest goal achievable?
Does it require very personal information (i.e. specific relations of your character in-game)? Could others effectively know and solve it?
Is the amount of heat/resources/whatever obtainable in the time you give?
Could you do it? Could someone help you test it?
Is the time window feasible?
Will the quest take too long or too little time?
Does the quest heavily depend on everybody showing up, or on a specific number of participants? Can that become an issue? Can it be avoided?
Try and anticipate flaws or issues in your quest.
Are there ways to cheat/cheese it?
Can it be easily disrupted by a third party (movelock, attacklock, teleporting)? Do you want to change the design to avoid this, or rely on external help?
Are there any unintended progress-stoppers?
Is there a risk of participants spoiling eachother, or sabotaging eachother? Is it indended? Is it an issue?
How could you prevent these issues?
Is your quest transparent? Is your judging and rewarding transparent? Can people obtain details about judging and rewarding after the quest? The answers here should be yes!
Can you manage the quest by yourself? Do you need assistance with:
Scripting clickables?
Try the scripting section on the forums
Try contacting known scripters for help (please let me know if you want to be named here)
Preventing disruptions?
Do you know who might potentially disrupt your quest? Diplomacy works (most of the time).
Request help from friends, or protection under neutrality (Can MDA offer such help?)
Request help from your land leader (if any)?
Alter your quest design to avoid or reduce the risk of disruptions (hold it in a nojump location, for instance).
Effectively holding the quest?
Need a shady character that participants need to chase? Ask around.
Need another helping hand with distributing things to players during the quest (information, items)?
Need someone to supervise what participants do?
Is the quest engaging? Does it feel like an adventure, a continuous process or are there breaks and holes in it? Is it just a series of unrelated trials? Does it relate to MagicDuel at all? You could run a ‘good’ quest without this, but a good quest design will also make the quest enjoyable and fun, not just ‘doable’. One of the best things to do is to try and integrate it with the world of MagicDuel. Try and make it part of the game, rather than just a ‘task’.
Accessibility, Target Audience and Types of Quests
Though this may be subjective, one fundamental principle of quests is their accessibility. This doesn’t necessarily mean that everybody should be able to complete it, but as many people as possible should be able to begin it. This may refer to restrictions or requirements on:
Mindpower
Is your quest for a specific Mindpower only, or does it bias for/against a specific Mindpower? How, why, and is it intended this way?
Active Days
Don’t think I’ve seen this one, but is there a restriction on active days? Why? Is it necessary? Why?
Land / Alliance
Can only people from certain lands/alliances participate? Why? Does your quest design bias against/for people from certain lands/alliances? Why? Is it necessary?
Specific people
Obviously, saying “X cannot participate” will immediately be bad. This does not mean you cannot exclude people from your quests, but it should not be baseless (for instance, that person is a judge or a sponsor, or that person has a repeated history of trolling your quests, etc). But excluding people should be considered bad practice, and making such a decision should be taken extremely seriously.
Number of participants
Does your quest have a restriction on how many questers can begin it? Why? Is it intended or necessary, and if so, why?
Talent & Skill
Naturally, drawing quests are going to be fundamentally different from tournament quests. Keep in mind though that you can easily put talent into the backseat by adjusting your judging/scoring parameters!
Stats
Does your quest bias against players with specific stat values? Is this intended / necessary? Does it need adjusting (such as tiering participants)?
Keep in mind, many quests will often encounter at least one of those restrictions. These are not to be considered as deadly sins (or things to not do under any circumstance), but rather things that you should be prepared to explain if asked, or changed if not intended.
Moving on to the target audience. MagicDuel has a very mottled player base. Some are artists, some are grinders, some are roleplayers, some are coders, some are good with numbers and ciphers, etc. It is very difficult to design a quest for absolutely everybody, so you should at least aim to have a specific audience (whether it is broad or narrow). It is perfectly fine to make a quest for artists or grinders only, but it is good practice to try and make it as broadly available as possible. Think “roleplayers” rather than “that specific type of roleplayer”, if that helps.
You could also include multiple, different types of players by introducing multiple stages (have a combat stage, an art stage, etc)! This should be designed very carefully however, or it might discourage people from participating. Maybe make the quest for teams, and thus give them the possibility to include different skill types in their team? Up to you.
Quest Types
The Arts & Crafts Quest
The Tournament Quest
The Roleplaying Scenario Quest
The Clickie Chase Quest
The Cipher / Puzzle Quest
Announcements. Miscellaneous
Tips about how to announce your quests, where to do so and how.
You should announce your quest preferably when you are certain you can hold it (this means you have found sponsorship for rewards, if necessary, or already designed and implemented the bulk of the quest). This is often done on the forums, here. Key elements you should mention in your quest release announcement should be:
Description of the quest requirements (registration - optional, only use if 100% necessary, or details you need for an application)
The task itself + deadlines
Rewards
Judging or scoring methods (do not name your judges. Just say if there will be any and give a few details on what you will be giving points for, if applicable).
Keep in mind that for some quests it is better to announce later rather than earlier (when you want to prevent people from finding loopholes in your quest, for instance).
Try and give a decent amount of time, but do not give a stupendously distant deadline. This means people will have to wait very long for their rewards! Give too short a notice and people won’t participate, as they will fear their effort will be wasted.
During the quest, keep in mind that you announcing details about any of the participants (who is participating, if they have any score so far, who is leading, etc) may lead to their sabotaging! Do not divulge information about participants that is not public by quest design, even if you think it’s harmless!
Be wary that information leaks. Try to tell as little as possible about the quest prior to its release. You might give details to third parties helping you set the quest up and while said third parties may not participate, they may pass the information further to potential participants.
Sponsorships and Rewards
Quest rewards can be varied, but can usually be broken down into 5 major categories:
Wishpoints. Arguably most valuable.
Coins (Gold or Silver). Arguably most versatile.
Creatures. Can vary from extremely valuable and rare, to very mundane.
Items or Resources. Some can be valuable and usable (spellstones), other are for RP purposes only. Some resources can be used to create other items or creatures.
Other rewards. This may include things such as nightmode, dreams, melodic charm, medals, group memberships or spelldocs. These can perhaps be some of the rarest rewards, but their value will vary wildly on the perception of the receiver.
For 1-4, you can approach the Treasure Keepers (namely Eara Meraia in-game). You can also ask for sponsorships from just about any player! However, by the time you ask you should already have:
A clear quest structure in mind
An idea of how difficult the quest would be
An idea of what sort of rewards would be suitable for it
For 5, you should approach the players responsible for those rewards (for instance, myself for nightmode - Aeoshattr in game)
Players who can give special rewards (in their own quests and/or as sponsoring):
Nightmode - Aeoshattr
Dreams - Jubaris (?)
Melodic Charm - Burns (debated currently, I believe)
Spelldocs - lashtal, *Nimrodel*, Intrigue
You can always award part of your own items or creatures. If you want to be able to award Wishpoints on your own, you will need to obtain Wishpoint Reward Codes, which you can get from the permanent Drachorn Quest, but are sometimes awarded to questmakers by admins for particularly good quests.
Keep in mind that rewards should scale with quest difficulty! There is no “here are some average rewards” guide. You should be able to assess the difficulty of your quest and have a rough idea of the type of rewards that should be given. You can always use past quests that you can find on the forums here as a reference.
If you are unsure of the value of a specific item or creature, you can consult past prices by searching the forum here. Make sure you look at the time and date of the transaction! Prices change in time! If still in doubt, you can always ask veteran players in-game or post on the forums.
Quest Judging and Rewarding
While I cannot provide direct instructions as to how to judge each and every quest, I can provide some principles that are good to follow when thinking about how you select your judges, how you send the quest information to those judges, and subsequently how to distribute rewards. Luckily, some IRL principles can be applied here very successfully! Without further ado…
Judging Principles
Single Blinding. This means that your questers do not know who your judges are. This is extraordinarily simple to implement and I dare say it is something that you must do in all of your quests. How?
Ask for judges publicly, but ask for applications to be sent to you privately.
Go directly to someone you know does judging and ask privately. Make sure you ask them not to divulge their judge status.
Do not accept judge applications that are made publicly.
Why is this good practice? Think about questers potentially influencing judges. Telling them “look for a submission like this one, see if you can give it extra points”, etc. If your questers are unaware of who judges your quest, then that is much more difficult to achieve. Always try and go for reliable, reputable players, whenever possible.
Double Blinding. This means, like single blinding, that your questers do not know who their judges are, but it also means that the judges do not know whose quest entry they are judging! This may sound a bit trickier, and it is, but nevertheless it is not very difficult to achieve. What this means is that you need to take these steps, in order:
You apply all the principles above when selecting your judges
Ask for quest entries to be sent to you privately (forum PMs?)
Make sure you keep a record of which entry belongs to whom (privately). Microsoft Excel (or Google Spreadsheets) is great for this.
Anonymise each entry (remove player names or revealing details, such as titles, ID, etc). Replace them with “Participant X”, where X is a number you assign so you can undo the anonymisation later.
Send each anonymised entry to your judges.
Therefore, the questers will not know who judges them and the judges won’t know whose entry they are judging. This is one of the fairest things you can do. This also ensures that the only one who knows whose entry belongs to who is you. Obviously, this can be cheated, but it is much more difficult than if you don’t do it at all.
For the more visually inclined, here is an example of what you would receive by forum PMs and what you should send to your judges (using real player names, for the sake of it):
Other bits and details, in no particular order.
Google Spreadsheets is a great tool to be used for judging. Here are a few things that it can do (automatically) to make your life easier:
Maths. It can calculate averages and just about any other formulas you might need just from values you input.
Easy Sharing. Just send a link to your judges. Make sure you set the document to request permission to view from you by e-mail, don’t let everybody with the link see it!
Hiding. You can hide certain parts of a sheet, or certain sheets from your judges, so they don’t see either your own scores (if you give any) or they don’t see the totals and rankings so far, so that it will not influence their judging!
Think of it this way, if one judge sees that he can make the difference between 1st and 2nd place by his choice, it might influence him in the scores he will give in order to put one participant in front of the other.
Selective Editing. Google Spreadsheets can be set-up to allow each user to edit only a specific portion of the entire spreadsheet. This means you can have a single sheet for everybody, and each judge can edit only his own little section. No changes in the formulas you put in or in the layout, etc.
This works very well for quests where specific score break-downs are needed (such as an arts & crafts quest, where the total score is composed of many little scores awarded for different criteria).
You should post your score break-downs, where there are any. This is for transparency. You may or may not want to reveal the judges at the end, and if you do not want to reveal their names (also ask them if they want their names out or not), then simply use Judge X, Y, Z, 1, 2, 3, etc.
You should double check your scores and calculations. I know it’s very tempting to just take what Google Spreadsheets gives you, but at least look over it once to make sure there are no blatant errors.
You should aim for two judges for most quests. If you apply double blinding by default you cannot be a judge, unless someone else does the anonymisation for you (which I don’t recommend, I would prefer depending on myself only for this kind of thing).
Each judge should have an equal weighting in the final score. This means you can’t have 3 judges, but in total their opinion is worth 10% and yours is worth 90%. Each judge should have an equal weighting.
Make sure your ranking criteria are defined at the beginning. This means if your quest isn’t a simple hierarchy of scores but has some sort of tiers or thresholds, you define those clearly from the very beginning and maintain them at the end of the quest, regardless of how many people ranked in each tier (or didn’t). You should always consult your sponsors, if you think there is a problem with how many people ranked (or didn’t) in a certain position.
Make sure you provide the judges with your marking scheme. This means be sure that you send them the entries you get from the questers, but also exactly what they should be giving points for, how many and how! If the quest is a puzzle, you might need to send them the puzzle solution. If it’s an arts & crafts quest, you might need to send them the criteria (such as creativity, originality, design, relevance to quest, etc). Always send marking schemes after the quest is finished and when no further entries can be submitted. Just to be extra-safe so your answer doesn’t get leaked before judging starts.
When one door closes another one opens. Necrovians, swear your fealty to me and I'll forgive you for your past sins and consider granting you citizenship to the East one day.
Well, I'm not good at giving an impartial suggestion at the moment considering I'm part of the "wounded party" but here is the most I can manage:
I would prefer it if the decision would be something that would spur action in the realm. Be it (and not necessarily anyone of these) rebuilding the ally / reopening the land / restoring 'land-balance' because one is missing / (Trying to think of something that's not pro-Necro and totally failing at it >_< Urh, help?) / etc.
I think it would make a more interesting history to have a "what happens next" instead of ending it at implementing a large handicap / end-result (e.g. completely close/open the land) and just end it right there. Something that continues the story, sort of like the events in AL.
As to the "why" I would prefer it so. I would like to see the most made out of the situation, and what I think that could be is spurring more activity in the realm. The realm is really quiet of the late.
On the other hand, I'm not certain if this is possible without implementations that would be "expensive" on the coding side or the organization side or both. And you could argue that it might be too much to have a "higher-power" trigger a reaction/activity from players rather than let players take initiative themselves to pick up from the after-effect of having all alliances of a land down.
After writing this, I wonder if I'm even making sense... also being impartial is hard, dangit. Not even sure if this is..
Azull is the king, and im the queen. but i dont understand why a land cant hold without an alliance either, we've had none in the past just fine, a land is about a bond, a connection between its people, you dont need a badge to uphold that.
Well, I'm not good at giving an impartial suggestion at the moment considering I'm part of the "wounded party" but here is the most I can manage:
I would prefer it if the decision would be something that would spur action in the realm. Be it (and not necessarily anyone of these) rebuilding the ally / reopening the land / restoring 'land-balance' because one is missing / (Trying to think of something that's not pro-Necro and totally failing at it >_< Urh, help?) / etc.
I think it would make a more interesting history to have a "what happens next" instead of ending it at implementing a large handicap / end-result (e.g. completely close/open the land) and just end it right there. Something that continues the story, sort of like the events in AL.
As to the "why" I would prefer it so. I would like to see the most made out of the situation, and what I think that could be is spurring more activity in the realm. The realm is really quiet of the late.
On the other hand, I'm not certain if this is possible without implementations that would be "expensive" on the coding side or the organization side or both. And you could argue that it might be too much to have a "higher-power" trigger a reaction/activity from players rather than let players take initiative themselves to pick up from the after-effect of having all alliances of a land down.
After writing this, I wonder if I'm even making sense... also being impartial is hard, dangit. Not even sure if this is..
Well, I'm not good at giving an impartial suggestion at the moment considering I'm part of the "wounded party" but here is the most I can manage:
I would prefer it if the decision would be something that would spur action in the realm. Be it (and not necessarily anyone of these) rebuilding the ally / reopening the land / restoring 'land-balance' because one is missing / (Trying to think of something that's not pro-Necro and totally failing at it >_< Urh, help?) / etc.
I think it would make a more interesting history to have a "what happens next" instead of ending it at implementing a large handicap / end-result (e.g. completely close/open the land) and just end it right there. Something that continues the story, sort of like the events in AL.
As to the "why" I would prefer it so. I would like to see the most made out of the situation, and what I think that could be is spurring more activity in the realm. The realm is really quiet of the late.
On the other hand, I'm not certain if this is possible without implementations that would be "expensive" on the coding side or the organization side or both. And you could argue that it might be too much to have a "higher-power" trigger a reaction/activity from players rather than let players take initiative themselves to pick up from the after-effect of having all alliances of a land down.
After writing this, I wonder if I'm even making sense... also being impartial is hard, dangit. Not even sure if this is..
When I joined Necrovion there were two alliances in this land. The Necrovian Sentinels and The Tainted Warriors. The Sentinels were disbanded by a player during Jester's reign for much the same reasons TW are disbanded now.
I never asked for the Sentinels to be returned. This alliance was the result of a covenant between humans and shades. It's destruction and subsequent lack of reactions from the shades was a symbol this covenant no longer exists. The only thing that remains is that humans are allowed to live in Necrovion. I feel the Sentinels should remain dead until such time a new covenant is made. (which seems unlikely to happen anytime soon)
Of course there is a practical reason too. An alliance with that many seats is impossible to protect. And since alliance taking has become such a popular and in many cases easy to do hobby, why bother.
In August 2011 after Jester left Necrovion and joined SoS in the east, Tainted Warriors were
disbanded by a player who acted as Mur's cats-paw. A few days later the land was closed and we were left with nothing. But it didn't mean the end of Necrovian society. Quite the contrary in fact.
Some time later the alliance was given back to us because of a wish rewarded in an unexpected way (ann. 2034). Over the past years it was taken from us twice more because of misplaced trust and treason. Twice we got it back by use of illusions. With Peace gone this is not an option now. But is that such a bad thing? We don't think so.
The Necrovian social and political structure we built is not defined by its alliance. In reality an alliance is a tool with a few useful features and a badge (of pride). Nothing more. I challenge anyone to prove me otherwise.
Four years ago we made the foundation for this Necrovion without an alliance. Having none now doesn't affect us beyond the loss of a few gadgets. Necrovian society, or whatever colorful name one might prefer for us, still exists. Having no alliance doesn't change that.
I'm guessing by that chewy means is I would be able to have the stuff to do it with but you would keep the spells and tag until enough time went by to ensure I gave tk their cut and did the role well enough to prove that I can do the other part as well basically it would be like an apprenticeship :P again this is my GUESS
Reading some comments, chats and blogs i come to this :)
Let's be clear, i'm not going anywhere it's just i don't like hoarding "power/responsibility" I like to to few things and to them well. Concierge thing i'm not actually that good at. I mean i have not failed in anything but at getting more clients and that one thing bothers me.
Somehow you have already managed to drive Chew into denying the spell that i think is a really important part of this (and i did fight for it 4 years.).......
Anyhow, I'll have the next Concierge murdered for half an year if some "data abuse" cases surface.
I promise to:
1) Keep the room clean
2) Keep my sensors out of your business
3) Have some light snacks prepared for your sekret sekret meetings
4) Give TK their money
I promise to:
1) Keep the room clean
2) Keep my sensors out of your business
3) Have some light snacks prepared for your sekret sekret meetings
4) Give TK their money
I promise to:
1) Keep the room clean
2) Keep my sensors out of your business
3) Have some light snacks prepared for your sekret sekret meetings
4) Give TK their money
I promise to:
1) Keep the room clean
2) Keep my sensors out of your business
3) Have some light snacks prepared for your sekret sekret meetings
4) Give TK their money
I promise to:
1) Keep the room clean
2) Keep my sensors out of your business
3) Have some light snacks prepared for your sekret sekret meetings
4) Give TK their money
I promise to:
1) Keep the room clean
2) Keep my sensors out of your business
3) Have some light snacks prepared for your sekret sekret meetings
4) Give TK their money
JadenDew reacted to Muratus del Mur in New forum at Magic:re
JadenDew got a reaction from Fang Archbane in The "Lost Island" possible names.
JadenDew got a reaction from Lintara in Fate of Necrovion
JadenDew got a reaction from MaGoHi in Fate of Necrovion
JadenDew got a reaction from dst in Fate of Necrovion
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JadenDew got a reaction from ignnus in The Concierge ;)
JadenDew got a reaction from lashtal in The Concierge ;)
JadenDew got a reaction from Fire Starter in The Concierge ;)
JadenDew got a reaction from Aeoshattr in The Concierge ;)
JadenDew got a reaction from Neno Veliki in The Concierge ;)