Death is coming

[Chewett]

This morning Seigheart killed me.

When confronted with this, he lied about killing me until i gave him evidence that cannot be ignored, and then gave me a story about "killing me to help spar". I waited to hear his reasoning until I posted this topic, it's a poor one and one I personally don't believe because he dislikes me.

Well done sieg, I'm dead. Now honestly, I would have love to be killed, its great roleplay fun, and when it was introduced into the game, I thought it was a really cool idea. When the monarchs were killed I organised a nice little roleplay event that i had great fun in doing, and we revived them. Then when sieg and the others were killed, again I helped out where I could and had great fun doing so.

Sadly, over the past months I haven't had much time for MD, and when Spar died I haven't really had time to attend any of the events that were arranged, let alone run the service that I was thinking of doing for him. He is a great warrior and i felt that we should honour this. I didn't have time to run this, and sadly it looks like he has left now, so that's not good.

I now sit at GoC, dead. I don't have any time to roleplay some event to revive myself, and I will not be paying anyone to revive myself. Death to someone who doesn't roleplay means only that either the community will roleplay for them, and the gods will deem them worthy to be brought back, or that they pay.

Clearly in spars case, he couldn't pay, and sadly I didn't see too much action for the roleplay so he faded away.

This is entirely stupid, there needs to be more mechanics so that people who have died, have some way to be reborn that isnt paying someone an extortionate amount of coin or roleplay that isn't guaranteed to work. When Mur gave out revival items, it was obvious that they would slowly move to the highest bidders, those who would keep them for themselves. The "normal" person has little chance to be revived by an item, unless they have friends that hold said items. Death seems unfinished, especially when it is exceptionally hard for someone to be revived. In Spar's you just tell him to go away, he cant play MD anymore.

Many of you wont have bothered to listen to spar, But hopefully someone is going to listen to what im saying. Quite simply, I'm just going to wait, I don't have time to do any roleplay to save me currently, nor will i be wasting my coin buying the use of a revival item. Lets see if I last longer than Spar until some change happens in MD.

Thanks Sieg, you have made one more person die, which means one more revival item needs to be used, whereas you could have been productive and actually tried to help spar by convincing someone else.

[Seigheart]

First off, I never denied anything to you Chewett.

What you just said, was an outright lie.

[quote]
[b]Original message:[/b]
Killing you? Why do you think it was I that killed you? O.o
Original message RE~2: Comments?
you killed me, aelis passed you the dagger, and you killed me

Dont play the fool.

[b]Your reply to this message:[/b]
Well, either way, you are dead. Are you angry?[/quote]

Anyways, this is not what the topic is about.

Chewett is right, on most accounts.

Death needs to be changed. Right now, as the Wookie has stated, community efforts are not a guarenteed way to save someone. Those with items with revival powers are not using them for fear of retribution, or simple greed.

We need a more concrete way of guarenteed revival than player cooperation, or the Council. Both are incredibly unreliable.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Seigheart

[Jubaris]

Seigheart, just to check, you killed Chewett so he would involve himself in a RP to revive himself and Spartiatis along the way?

[Isabella Finch]

[quote name='Chewett' timestamp='1339431302' post='114354']

I now sit at GoC, dead. I don't have any time to roleplay some event to revive myself, and I will not be paying anyone to revive myself. Death to someone who doesn't roleplay means only that either the community will roleplay for them, and the gods will deem them worthy to be brought back, or that they pay.

Clearly in spars case, he couldn't pay, and sadly I didn't see too much action for the roleplay so he faded away.

This is entirely stupid, there needs to be more mechanics so that people who have died, have some way to be reborn that isnt paying someone an extortionate amount of coin or roleplay that isn't guaranteed to work. When Mur gave out revival items, it was obvious that they would slowly move to the highest bidders, those who would keep them for themselves. The "normal" person has little chance to be revived by an item, unless they have friends that hold said items. Death seems unfinished, especially when it is exceptionally hard for someone to be revived. In Spar's you just tell him to go away, he cant play MD anymore.

Many of you wont have bothered to listen to spar, But hopefully someone is going to listen to what im saying. Quite simply, I'm just going to wait, I don't have time to do any roleplay to save me currently, nor will i be wasting my coin buying the use of a revival item. Lets see if I last longer than Spar until some change happens in MD.

[/quote]


As far as I understand it, Many did not want to help Spartiatis because he went so long without trying to do anything to help himself. So with you doing the same, what makes you think your "life" is more valuable than his? Especially if you are going to do nothing to help yourself just as he had done. And pretending not to care about being killed, that it was a cool thing to add to the game after you were even seen cursing like a sailor, breaking rules doing so, in the mood panel and even saying here that this is stupid... Seems a bit confusing to me. Again, you don't decide to go against something unless it involves you personally.

[Maebius]

In this case, I would have to agree with Chewett's posting.

While the issue of Death's Lessons are a great way to interact with the general "Flavour" of MagicDuel, when time drags on and the player behind the character effectively "gives up" because it is no longer "fun". Where is the line drawn?

I understand that the realm has certain "filters" to allow a particular type of person in. Those who ask the right questions will "win" in a symbolic sense, by doing well by the internal physics of this "game" and it's symbology and Lessons. But if that were purely the case, would some character never enter Marinds Bell at all, from their Story Choices? It makes 'sense' that way on a deeper level, but I wonder if it's not exactly done that way for a more "game stability" reason, and easy of new players integrating in the realm at all.

In the same manner, if We force a player to leave, by our own inaction or action, are we helping or hurting the "game" itself by this?

[phantasm]

This is the prime example of why the death spell was so rarely given out. Most the people that did have it very rarely used it, and was for a genuine purpose. Now that people have been "granted" death items..especially an obvious person who has both life and death items (because he/she doesn't have a big enough ego, needs god tools to help). People like Seigheart are a prime example of why these things were kept to people that Mur felt were able to control such things. Honestly I am surprised it took this long for it to come to this sort of a head.

I agree completly with Chew that before when someone was killed. Mya, the kings, Z, Eon, Peace, etc were all not only role play oriented but helped to bring life to the community. I think now with at least i believe 5 items now that kill, we will see much more of this. Especially when certain people of power control them and force good players off simple "because they didn't like them and have the power to kill or rez them". With all things it simply took an item of power to fall into the wrong hands for abuse.

[Rumi]

Why not have all dead characters revived during the torch competition, just like torch participants who get beat up and killed. Of course, we'd need some kind of regular torch competition for that to work.

If you want to pay someone for the use of a revival item, the cost could be adjusted to the time period until the next competition. In ancient Israel, debt contracts were negotiated with an understanding that every fiftieth year would be a "jovel" or jubilee year, in which all debts were forgiven and every person was free to return to their family land. A debt of servitude negotiated with 45 years remaining was worth substantially more than a debt negotiated with 3 years remaining. I think you get the idea.

If the torch competition were a quarterly event, the longest you could remain dead and forgotten would be 3 months. That wait might merit the asking price of 20gc. 3 days might be worth 5sc.

[Chewett]

[quote name='Isabella Finch' timestamp='1339439135' post='114362']
you were even seen cursing like a sailor, breaking rules doing so, in the mood panel
[/quote]


Look up "Veteran privileges", Ask Murry about me swearing on the mood panel if you have such a great issue with this. I have talked to him before on this matter. Failing that, sue me.

[quote name='Isabella Finch' timestamp='1339439135' post='114362']
As far as I understand it, Many did not want to help Spartiatis because he went so long without trying to do anything to help himself. So with you doing the same, what makes you think your "life" is more valuable than his? Especially if you are going to do nothing to help yourself just as he had done.
[/quote]


You dont really seem to have understood what im saying. I currently do not have time to "help myself" i do a variety of things for MD, and they are currently taking all of my free MD time. I dont have time to roleplay, as i commented myself, i would love to, but i cant. Therefore i am put in spar's position.

[quote name='Isabella Finch' timestamp='1339439135' post='114362']
And pretending not to care about being killed, that it was a cool thing to add to the game
[/quote]

It [b]IS [/b]a cool thing, if you weren't around during the previous revival efforts, look them up. i loved them.

[quote name='Isabella Finch' timestamp='1339439135' post='114362']

Again, you don't decide to go against something unless it involves you personally.
[/quote]

Thats because, up until the Spar case and this one, i found death fun, it was fun, and it still can be fun, provided those who do not roleplay are not forced into doing it.

[Isabella Finch]

I think that is a great idea Rumi. Though it almost makes the revival items completely pointless as I believe they have a cool down period that lasts as long as the cool down on the kill items.

[Ivorak]

[quote name='Isabella Finch' timestamp='1339440231' post='114370']
Though it almost makes the revival items completely pointless as I believe they have a cool down period that lasts as long as the cool down on the kill items.
[/quote]

I don't think this would be the case at all. If you could sell the use of a revive item quarterly for 20 GC (or even 5) that adds up fairly quickly.

[Seigheart]

Yes, Rhaegar. The intended purpose was to kill Chewett, and use his popularity to have both Spart and himself revived.

But as of right now, it is just a feces flinging and a bunch of brown finger pointing.

So, instead of pointing fingers, and complaining about it. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

In the time you've spent complaining, you could have started another thread to set up a revival ceremony or something.

[Liberty4life]

wait.... yeah death thingy aint finished yet, true but why nobody pushed that feature in development focus? ya all wanted yoar lovely worthless citizenship label to be sticked on yoar forehead rather than seein broken things fixed and unfinished things done, murry said that from "now" on death/revive items will be common, that there would be a way for everyone to get access to melodic charm (or w/e is the name) and with that one could access drach lair and acquire revive item, but this part of story aint implemented yet, and ya all forgot about it, so did murrey

if ya wonderin how could that help ppl that are already dead? well simply one of their friends do the task of acquire charm, visit drach lair, get item and revive, or in otherwords roleplay "white knight comes to rescue" mission

[Grido]

Cool downs on revival items are different to the kill items. And to each other, actually. Intentionally not specifying what they are.

[Mya Celestia]

[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]I'm more disgusted that those with the revival items don't step forward and offer healing without charging a crazy amount to revive. It shows the kind of people there are in MD. [/font][/color]

[Chewett]

[quote name='Mya Celestia' timestamp='1339442019' post='114389']
[color=#008080][font=lucida sans unicode,lucida grande,sans-serif]I'm more disgusted that those with the revival items don't step forward and offer healing without charging a crazy amount to revive. It shows the kind of people there are in MD. [/font][/color]
[/quote]

One person has offered to freely revive me, all i need to do is ask

[Jubaris]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1339440935' post='114385']
Yes, Rhaegar. The intended purpose was to kill Chewett, and use his popularity to have both Spart and himself revived.
[/quote]

So instead of helping Spartiatis yourself with your efforts and RP, you killed Chewett so that someone else can use efforts to revive Spartiatis?
This looks to me like the case with your death when people accused you of not doing anything to get yourself revived, while all the others did the "dirty work".

Do you really have to be that reckless to set the burden on someone else's shoulders?

Oh, the path of lesser resistance...

Edited June 11, 2012 by Rhaegar Targaryen

[emerald arcanix]

yes Seigheart very good thinking, lets start a s...storm and have others clear it up along with your personal mess instead of doing something constructive about it. you tell Rhaegar(that right now has exams so very little time for MD, just the same as many others) to do a revival ceremony, good idea but why didnt you did that instead of killing chew? or rise awareness regarding the heat vote, vote that still goes on and has support, decent amount of heat for revive side and its going on for more then a month so it has some strong dedication, still seems to be ignored

so plenty of other ways to help if you wanted to...as it stands its just spite/hate towards chew for who knows what reasons and no other benevolent reasons

[Seigheart]

Rhaegar, we both know that Chewett has a heck of a lot more influence to get things done than I do. The general populace would do as he suggests, than myself.

And what's with this crap about me not liking Chewett? I like him just fine for the most part. We have our disagreements, but in general, I like him just as much as the next person.

If I were to kill anyone out of spite, it would have been dst, or Eon...

Think rationally people, please.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Seigheart

[Chewett]

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1339442712' post='114394']
Rhaegar, we both know that Chewett has a heck of a lot more influence to get things done than I do. The general populace would do as he suggests, than myself.
[/quote]

Yet as i said, i dont have the time, if you had come and asked me about this instead of killing me out of some random revenge and claiming it to be "helping spar" i could have given you some ideas i had to help him. Which as i said, i didnt do as i dont have time. Currently i cant help myself, so i guess im just going to drift away.

[Seigheart]

We both know you won't drift away. You're the Wookie. So that card doesn't work, Chewy.

Also, I have several projects going on that require my attention.

I've caused a stir in the community, stop pointing it at me, and do something about being dead.

[BFH]

First: Seigh, why you repeat the useless try that Marv did when trying to recover CotE? It's the same thing your removed Chew's life and will probably reach anything, just like what happened with CotE...

Second: We all now that Death is broken, unfinished, not implemented correctly, or whatever, so what are you trying to prove? the fact that everybody knows?

Third: Why you didn't killed yourself if you wanted to prove any points? It's selfish removing another player liberty without any reason. (Note this is general I see no reason to kill people without any reason to do so)

Fourth: Using Spar case as excuse is just stupid. I tried to get him revived doing some "under" work. But what you did for his case? Anything?

Fifth: I moved Chew to GoE, if anyone wants to help organizing any community efforts to revive him, please do so. [Today I started summer university and I'm very busy, but I'll try to collaborate with any efforts "public" or "under" just let me know.]

[Maebius]

[quote name='Liberty4life' timestamp='1339441161' post='114386']
wait.... yeah death thingy aint finished yet, true but why nobody pushed that feature in development focus? ya all wanted yoar lovely worthless citizenship label to be sticked on yoar forehead rather than seein broken things fixed and unfinished things done,
[/quote]

Actually, liberty, that is in my mind precisely why folks like myself were more interested in Citizenship.
That feature/functionality does not currently exist to help new players, or old ones, who wish to join a Land.
Even with Death being broken, there is the possibility in-game with current "technology" to fix Death.
Revival items, or the effort to get one yourself, if you believe there are more Melodic Charms floating around out there.

(Note: this is NOT a judgement against those with Revival items that had not used them recently. They exist now, unlike Citizenship tools without going to Council, which seems an odd choice if "land citizens" are to have power over their numbers, as before)

[Liberty4life]

my point was that revival/kill items were supposed to spawn at drach lair, and there was supposed to be a way for anybody to acquire charm in some way, this still aint implemented

i wasnt sayin that somebody needs to get charm now and go there and pick revive up, since its not done yet, but seems like some folks missunderstood mine post

[SageWoman]

If someone for no apparent good reason can kill a character, cannot someone revive a character out of kindheartedness and mercy? It is easy for anyone, oh for example...ME say I am going to kill my character willingly, say my goodbyes, and then then POOF, just leave (which I haven't but that's a whole other story) but quite another to have a "Death Spell" and pop someone off without a by your leave. Very naughty and worth a punt kick straight to jail in my humble opinion.

To stop this bickering, icky "brown finger" pointing, will not one of you who actually HAS a charm, STEP UP, and revive Chewy and be done with it? Heck, give it to me, and I'll even make a big production RP out if it (to fulfill my fellow RP junkies out there) and revive him myself. Or not but it would have been fun.

[Chewett]

[quote name='SageWoman' timestamp='1339452137' post='114422']
To stop this bickering, icky "brown finger" pointing, will not one of you who actually HAS a charm, STEP UP, and revive Chewy and be done with it? Heck, give it to me, and I'll even make a big production RP out if it (to fulfill my fellow RP junkies out there) and revive him myself. Or not but it would have been fun.
[/quote]

did you jump in and not read what i said?

someone has offered to revive me, for free.