Golemus Golemicarum & Necrovion

[Fang Archbane]

Id like to ask everyone what their thoughts are on the main and sub connections between Golemus Golemicarum and Necrovion.

There are no right or wrong answers, I simply wish to gauge the public perspective on this subject and compare it to my own.

For a long time now I have felt that GG & Necro are connected in more ways than the obvious or the publicly known so, I feel this question has been long overdue and I eagerly await all replies.

Thank you.

[Chewett]

What are your thoughts? I dont mind sharing quid pro quo

[Fang Archbane]

After reliving the extended talks i have had with @Pipstickz & @Jester about this topic, a few things come to mind.

First things first, I know there is a connection between GG & Necro although the details themselves might escape me.

After speaking with Pip oh so long ago, I came to the conclusion that Shades are made up of multiple components (Oppositely mirrored to what we Players are for Balance), but their main attribute is Wind. This would explain why (in my belief) Wind Ward is the most sought after Spell Doc, as it would shield one from most but not all of the dangers Necro inhabits.

Secondly, after my talks with Jester things got vastly more complicated. I'm now in the belief that Necro was created in response to GGs creation, and if that land is a +1 it would make Necro a -1 or even possibly a 0 (Depending on ones viewpoint of Balance).

Thirdly, I know the Tiny Men & possibly even the Empty Aramor are heavily related to the connection between GG & Necro, but that leaves the equally important question of how Angiens fit into the picture with Shades hanging in raw Limbo. For that matter, what ARE Angiens? I've learned somewhat recently that they aren't Light, and some can even become Tainted. Sadly I have more questions than answers and every new answer breeds twice as many extra questions.

My information and theorys for this Connection are nowhere near complete but this is what I believe my studies have showed thus far.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Fang Archbane

[Ungod]

So...you're trying to find the connection via creatures? I think it's harder that way...

[Fang Archbane]

Not necessarily Ungod, I'm trying to find connections through the lands themselves. However, the lands have main creatures (some implemented as actual usable Crits while others not) and i feel their connection to the land is just as important as impprtant as their connection to each other.

[Ungod]

Isn't their connection to the land an effort to give said land character? If we assume creatures to be various manifestations of the psyke, they were 'added' as an extra layer...or not?

[Chewett]

9 hours ago, Fang Archbane said:

First things first, I know there is a connection between GG & Necro although the details themselves might escape me.

How can you know there is a connection if you cant think what they are? Im a bit confused because that justification could work for anything.

9 hours ago, Fang Archbane said:

Thirdly, I know the Tiny Men & possibly even the Empty Aramor are heavily related to the connection between GG & Necro

How do you know?

----

An example is:

Personal  opinion with no fact: I think angiens are linked to necro

Personal opinion with fact: I think angiens are linked to necro because on the gate you can clearly see an angien carved.

The difference is one is a guess/theory (And theories are good, so no issue there) but it isnt backed up with anything. The second has a backing, it doesnt actually explain much more than the first but shows you have thought about it and did some research (and found something).

I think these kind of posts, if they are to work, need to start with "Here is something I believe, here is some reasons why I think its true, Do you have any opinions" because it shows you arent just asking for answers and opinions (which may  have taken much research and time to reach).

[Fang Archbane]

I can see what you mean ungod, but instinct tells me that those creatures mean more to the respective lands than simple aesthetic for flavour.

And you are right to say all that Chew, I have opinions based on prior conversations with people who know the subject much better than i, which is why I asked for opinions to hold against my own, and not hard facts and such. I'm sorry if I was misunderstood.

To continue with Ungods last comment it makes me wonder quite a few things. Primarily why the Shades & TTL in Inner Necrovion all congregate at one place (The Stone Of Twisted Souls) yet the Tiny Men and Empty Aramor of GG roam their entire land freely.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Fang Archbane

[Ungod]

So...why do you think that is so?

[Fang Archbane]

If I had to vocalize just one theory, it would be this.

While the Tiny Men did not change at any point in time I am aware of, the Empty Aramors did. They weren't always empty. It was during a transition from one place to the other that they became empty, but sadly I feel that is all I can say about that subject, and to be perfectly honest I fear I might have already said too much.

I feel the main difference between the Empty Aramors and the Shades might just be that the Shades are whole, while the Empty Aramors are not. The Tiny Men need to be able to tend to the Drachorns (which I'm sure run wild around the entire island of Golemus even if you can only recruit them in one place) So that might explain why they have full movement and access, but the Empty Aramors I feel might just be... searching for what was once lost, and is now very, very far away.

[Ungod]

So...you're saying empty aramors are shades that have been changed somehow and in reality they're searching for what they lost and that 'thing' is in necrovion (i.e. the stone of twisted souls might restore them)? That during their invasion of golemus they became empty aramors and are now forced to roam the land?

But, what were they looking for in golemus in the first place? And where were the 'viking' ships built - on the mainland?

[Chewett]

2 hours ago, Fang Archbane said:

and to be perfectly honest I fear I might have already said too much.

because?

[Fang Archbane]

14 minutes ago, Chewett said:

because?

I was under the impression that that bit of information i have access to is not meant to be public. If im wrong, then id be happy to continue.

1 hour ago, Ungod said:

So...you're saying empty aramors are shades that have been changed somehow and in reality they're searching for what they lost and that 'thing' is in necrovion (i.e. the stone of twisted souls might restore them)? That during their invasion of golemus they became empty aramors and are now forced to roam the land?

But, what were they looking for in golemus in the first place? And where were the 'viking' ships built - on the mainland?

Close, what they lost was lost upon leaving Gateway Island, and it might just still be there. It just seems odd to me that the Empty Aramor move around while the Shades & TTL do not, as the only major difference i see is that one set is whole and the other is not. However, your statement raises a couple of very good questions. If what you said is indeed the case, if the Empty Aramors became empty upon leaving Gateway and the lost pieces of themselves somehow found their way to Necrovion, and they did indeed reside at the Stone of Twisted Souls for Balances sake in our world, then it would indeed explain why the Empty Aramor roam around GG if even simply with a slightly different reason. I was under the impression they were trying to find their way back to Gateway to become whole... if they need to enter Necrovion to do that, then that would involve infiltration...

As far as the viking ships go, i have no basis for this save for gut feeling, but i have a strong impression that the ships were built on Gateway by the Tiny Men. They seem to be very good with tools just off of the few bitrs of scenery one can see in GG, theyre capable of restraining Drachorns so theyre clearly capable with tools to a very decent degree. I highly doubt one or even many could restrain a Drachorn with just their bare hands.

[Ungod]

It's a bit confusing, tbh...you said shades are whole, while empty aramors aren't - doesn't that make empty aramors some kind of shades? I thought Nc shades decided to invade Gg (since they are at war) - that's how i looked at that statement...

Now you're saying they come from the island? Does that mean shades inhabit the island as well, not just necrovion? And tiny men, too? What's the relationship between tiny men and aramors, if they came on ships built by tiny men? Friendship, loyalty, contract? They don't seem to mingle in Golemus..

[Fang Archbane]

I simply meant the Shades have not been removed from anything to the extent of our knowledge, even if it is possible to find a Shade that resembles you in your entirety. I dont believe those two halves were ever a whole, for what would we become if we fully accepted and absorbed our Shade? Would we be ourselves with a Shade voice in our head, or would we be the voice in the mind of a Shade? Maybe wed be something completely new and amazing, but i feel like we arent together as one with our Shade for a reason. Might simply be for Balances sake, then again it might be something far greater and vastly more destructive to the very fabric of existence.

Empty Aramors on the other hand, were not Empty once. Thus, now, they are not whole. I apologize if that got confusing, that was not my intention. Yes indeed, the Empty Aramors we know now became empty upon leaving Gateway. I dont believe im at liberty to explain how that came to be exactly, but i do believe i can say that much. I have personally never seen a Shade in Gateway, but there is still an underground cavern area i do not believe has been fully explored so, its wholly possible we could find some startling things down there in the deep dark depths of Gateway.

As for how Tiny Men tie into Aramors at all, i have no idea. Their only connection i can see is that they seem to have come from the same place of origin, and they seem to be able to live together without destroying each other.

[Ungod]

So empty aramors come from thr island, and become emtpy thusly. Meaning, they are alien to golemus...just as tiny men. But, if so, how does that point to a connection between gg's crits (which are aliens) and necrovion's crits (and therwfore between gg and nc)? Surely, if shades are in everything, then this alone serves as connection, so you don't need to bring empty aramors into discussion.

(Bear with me, i am not sure what the connection you're suggesting is)

[Fang Archbane]

It seems upon the obtaining of some new information, that Shades are closer to a joined collective of Necrovions (especially Inner Necrovions) consciousness. If this is the case, then it makes me wonder if we create our Shades when we first cross over to Death and only make it more like us every time we die thereafter. Interesting indeed.

Tiny Men have closer ties to empty aramors than we might be giving them credit for, they could have very well been Empty Aramors themselves once. If that is the case, then the transition would go Aramor (Whole)> Empty Aramor (Having left Gateway)> Tiny Men (Having somehow found the missing piece or a new substitute piece inside GG).

Im of the belief that ill need to study the Necrovion Golemus war more closely now. It might harbor answers ive previously looked over with old eyes now new.

[Aia del Mana]

I would like to add mine thoughts to this discussion, although I cannot claim to be of Golemian or Necrovian descent.

While I had never had opportunity to visit the Island of the Gateway myself, I had heard that there doth lie upon it an Aramor Assembler - such a landmark doth not exist upon the mainland.

To assemble an Aramor within this construct, one doth require many resources, and one who were able should then obtain an Aramor Fenth, that may create eight Aramors.

I would wonder what doth occur when one attempts to construct an Aramor, but without all the required resources. Perhaps, if one were to assemble one without a Fossil, or without a Crystal - the resulting Aramor mightst be formed, yet incomplete.

If I do recall, Golemus were an island that had many constructs, of many scientists. Mayhap, the Aramor had been one of them - one that had taken many iterations, until one had stumbled upon the correct recipe that were within the Assembler today. If such a scientist had attempted to construct an Aramor, but had not known how to do so, mayhap, an Empty Aramor might have become.

I do note that the Empty Aramors do wander Golemus, bound to none, while all other Aramors within the realm were bound to another being, as a creature of allegiance. Perhaps it were the absence of the soul that were bound - thus making one an Empty Aramor - that thus doth make these unable to be bound in the same way. Thus they mightst be fated to roam the island for eternity - as they cannot be sacrificed at an Altar.

 

Of the Shades, I cannot claim to have expertise. Yet, I believe that it may have been Khalazdad that had once studied them, and found them to have been formed of imbalance. Perhaps it were the eternal cycle of roaming of the Empty Aramors that doth bring about the eternal roaming of the Shades, within Necrovion - for the imbalance that were formed of an eternal being, never to return to naught, must bring with it another. In another realm, one mightst consider the presence of matter, and anti-matter, that were formed of one another. Mayhap, this were the Shade and the Empty Aramor - a soul without a vessel, and a vessel without a soul.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Aia del Mana

[Ungod]

So...the shades in necrovion are balancing the aramors in a way? This is more of a connection between golemus and necrovion; but how exactly is that done? The empty aramors landing in golemus triggers what movement in necrovion?

[Blackshade Rider]

49 minutes ago, Ungod said:

The empty aramors landing in golemus triggers what movement in necrovion?

War maybe ???? 

[Fang Archbane]

@Aia del Mana all of these are amazing points... so much so that i dont even know where to start... so ill start here i guess. Taking all that into account, and seeing from a rather wide perspective just how frail the balance and imbalance are... it makes me wonder what would happen if one were to kill TTL ( https://magicduel.com/players/TTL ) or the Controlled Shade | Ark Mattarox ( https://magicduel.com/players/| Ark Mattarox ). Both seem to be very important in the grand scheme of things, and both would greatly disrupt balance if they went from being in Necrovion to The Dead... interesting indeed. For that matter, what would happen if killing them spurred the Shade Sentinel ( https://magicduel.com/players/Shade Sentinel ), and beyond that what would happen if we were to try and kill the Shade Sentinel himself?... would we destroy the balance and imbalance weve all come to take for granted, or would the disruptive assassin become like TTL, a soul now lost to Necrovion?...

@Ungod I do believe Aia is on to something beyond important... if the Shades balance the Empty Aramor (Souls without Vessels and Vessels without Souls) then what would happen if we didnt simply defeat them in battle and make them dissapear visually? What would happen if we tried to actually kill them?... woud we drastically see change in either Necrovion, Golemus, Gateway, The Dead, or all four? Would nothing change? Would new previously locked doors open, or would previously open doors close? If something happens, nothing happens, or everything gets turned upside down, careful study of the actions and reactions or lack thereof would greatly aid in the research being conducted on it all.

@Blackshade Rider Very possible indeed. We could accidentally spark another war... but if we did, what would that truly mean? Answers might be found, but even more questions would arise...

Edit1: A careful study of TTLs, Arks, and the Shade Sentinels principles should also be taken into consideration. They might just hold as many secrets and answers as the rest of this.

Edit2: Careful study of these profiles makes me notice a few things immediately.

The Sentinel is made up of simply Darkness. Described simply as "Nightmare's for Some, Fascination for Others, Shades Rule the Obscure Side of This World, Balancing for All that is Opposing Them". He is also quoted to be saying "Listen to Me i Challenge You All. Find my Face Behind the Wall. As You Rise so You should Fall".

TTL is made up of Darkness, Imagination, Time, Transposition, and Light oddly enough. TTL is "A Soul bound to the Shades Realm, Crossing Over on a Perpetual Basis". No further papers on this once sentient being to describe him, although it should be noted that he did try to kill the Shades if memory serves.

Ark is made up of Balance & Imagination. It is an "Undefined entity commonly reffered to as a Shade. Usually being a Fragment of a Larger Cluster ([Sub?]Consciousness of Necrovion?) and without Individual Identity". Ark also speaks of himself. This is seen in the passage reading thusly: "Originated in Necrovion, I Ark Mattorox is Different from your Average Shade (It seems very self aware, even of its abnormality in being self aware). It is Sometimes seen Outside of Necrovion, Sometimes heard talking to Itself (Itself as in himself, or itself as in the rest of the Combined Consciousness?) and has an Unusual Interest in Humans (I believe this means sentient organisms, as we all know not all of us in MagicDuel are "human"). It seems to like Writing and Reading, preferably starting Midway in a Book and working towards the Beginning and the End Simultaneously (This makes sense since Shades experience all of time all at once). Sometimes ruins a book in attempt to Bend it Backwards (This... feels like it has some secret message im overlooking), however the books it returns to the Library are always in a Good State (So it keeps anything it ruins... interesting). The only Problem is it tends to Return books Before it Borrowed them and thus confuse the Librarian (Ah, so their experience of time is different from ours on all levels both Inner and Outer, we could even say Shades can travel through what we consider to be Time). As for the Writings, it has a huge Collection of Papers containing the word "I" or "I Ark Mattarox"; A Thesis on the Concept of Individuality and a Transcript of 'The Book of Time", which he Wrote while visiting the Study Room (Again, this Shade is beyond self aware)".

Edited March 27, 2018 by Fang Archbane

[Ungod]

So...the empty aramors landing in golemus triggers war in necrovion...why? Shades mirror what you do, so war against golemus would mean what for shades? Also, if empty aramors and tiny men are aliens, who are they fighting against?

@Fang Archbane: wasn't there a research clue entitled 'to kill a shade'?

[Fang Archbane]

27 minutes ago, Ungod said:

So...the empty aramors landing in golemus triggers war in necrovion...why? Shades mirror what you do, so war against golemus would mean what for shades? Also, if empty aramors and tiny men are aliens, who are they fighting against?

@Fang Archbane: wasn't there a research clue entitled 'to kill a shade'?

Its said they mirror in the name of balance, and that could mean quite a few things. If memory serves when Immanity (what i call the collective of players in MagicDuel) first made contact with the Sentinel, he said something along the lines of "To wage war against us is to wage war against yourselves"... indeed, the plot thickens.

Ive also updated my previous posts with edits, so please do reread the bottom bits ive added.

As for the Research, do you speak of The Chronicles Of A Shade Killer? If so i have all the first unlockable ones and would be more than happy to share them, assuming that is allowed.

I also seem to have the research on the fight between GG and Necrovion... curioser and curioser. Would also be glad to share that if allowed.

I also have some Research on the Aramors themselves... i truly hope im allowed to share all of this.

Looking through my Research and Connections i do not see anything simply labeled To Kill A Shade... even if i feel like ive seen it before somewhere. Ive been to most places so, the chances of me not having at least unlocked the ability to see it in my Research and Connections as a locked paper are slim to none.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Fang Archbane

[Mallos]

Research clues should not be shared publicly.

Let's try to keep in mind " Shades rule the obscure side of this world, ballancing for all that is oposing them."

Balancing is not the same as "Mirroring"  someone mirroring my actions would be, depending how you define mirror, either doing exactly what I do, or doing an inverse of what I do. Balancing something is not as simple as inverting the actions of what you're trying to balance, it requires that you have knowledge of the system as a whole and act in a way that preserves the integrity of the system when such actions that you are balancing is disrupting that integrity.

[Ungod]

Mkay, balancing, not mirroring - what is opposing them. Therefore, how can aramors landing in gg create movement among shades?

I think you are allowed to share bits that confirm/strengthen your theory; sharing things others told you may be not so good, but sharing an original theory based on info you collected and that require some disclosing is...ok? It seems that way.