Heat Veins Mapping

[Muratus del Mur]

Heat Veins Mapping
I want to change/fix/add heatveins information on _all_ md scenes.

A25 medal holders have priority, followed by ex-kings an queens as counselors.

There is a secret pattern that veins follow, and each land has it slightly different. I will assemble a team for this purpose, provide new tools and more instructions once a team has formed.

Veins are the key to traveling impossible places, and to discover secret locations that can't be accessed by other ways.

Darvin will is able to travel on heatveins, but right now he escaped GWI and reached the gazebo, where they veins are not fully configured yet. Trying to fix that, i discovered that i also forgot the secret locations accessible by heatveins only, so its time to get a map of that, for internal a25/questmakers use only. Please submit your application here

UPDATES:

heat veins are editable in a25 now, but dont use it till i explain how i want them setup, its more complicated than it looks.

 

Current list

Azull -  approved - both as ex King of Necrovion and A25 Master

Chewett - approved - as ex King of Marind Bell and apprentice of the A25 tools

Aelis - approved - as apprentice of A25 tools, you will get additional task later to prove you learned how to use the tools.  limited travel permit.

Shemhazaj - approved, you will help Aelis learn about the tools first

Syrian - approved, you will get additional task later to earn your medal

Aia - approved, you will help Aelis learn about the tools first

 

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Muratus del Mur
application ended

[Azull]

Application.

[Aia del Mana]

I do pledge of mine efforts, when I may.

[Shemhazaj]

I would also help if I can.

[Chewett]

As previous King of Marind Bell, Alliance leader of Soldiers of the Inner Sun, Defacto King of Lands of the East, and Tyrant of the Gateway Island I offer my assistance and wish to learn how to use the interface.

[Syrian]

i would like to apply

[Aelis]

I'd like to help in mapping the heat veins of the Lands of the East, if possible.

[Muratus del Mur]

all approved

I will summon you first to discuss all this, its not as simple as it seems, and there are aspects i am not sure of that we should clarify first.

i updated the application list with details, pls check

 

-- no more new participants --

[Muratus del Mur]

Things we need to discuss:

- How will be heat veins distributed, there are two ways. Initially i wanted them in a way that combines these two ways, but very fast i realized its not possible. Since then i set them up in a mix of these two ways, we need to discuss what is better and reset all of them accordingly. 

- Aelis needs to play with the tools and learn what to do and what he should do. For this he needs the tools (Azull, you will do the honors) but not before we talk with him about that. He will do Loreroot, a the veins there are easier to plan than the rest of the land.

- Chew if you have any unclarities about the tools or the new thigbs thet support, let me know

- Shem, Aia, i find you the most online and "friendly" so you will help Aelis with his first steps. You will also be the ones double testing if the veins where placed correctly once someone is done with an area.

- We need to discuss who takes what area, i want deeper, less circulated areas taken by the most experienced of you, and the lands by their former kings (where the case)

- Syrian, you have the tools for a very long time and you need to prove you haven't become a fossil with them..tool-fossil  I am sure its no problem with that, but it still means you have to put some effort into it. 

 

 

More details in the throne hall meeting. 

[Muratus del Mur]

About the veins and how they could be set

There are two conflicting ways of setting them up. Depending on what we decide about this, they will be useful for one or the other thing later. 

First i want to make it clear what they veins are, and i want you to follow their concept when placing them, completely disregarding any potential use. Any potential use will have to confront the way they are setup, and not the other way around, so forget about Darvin traveling them, or the needles or whatever.

The first way - most practical

Veins lead to a lands capitol when traveled inwards and to the lands exit when traveled outwards. 

Problems: This leaves some lands in confusion, as they have no capitol or a place that could be considered one. Also they might not all have an exit/entrance, mainly i am talking about NML. 

 

The second way - most beautiful

This is the original concept, one i still like very much, even if not the most practical one. Veins originate at the edges of the world, and follow a path towards the Death Marrow in necrovion. On their way, heat veins transport fresh heat across the realm, and as these veins touch the realm inhabitants, they get dirty, like polluted water. In necrovion, as they reach Death Marrow, heat already has converted into liquid dust.

Problems: this could mix well with the first way, if we consider them to originate in each lands capitol, and consider necrovion reversed polarity. This is probably the way i want it done, if you could plan a way to make sense. Having it done like this, also means there will be a disproportionate balance of forces between necrovion and the rest of the lands, but i am not sure what this means, if its an advantage or a disadvantage. Necrovion is closed and rule-less, so that would not be a problem, but it must make sense.

 

You should consider veins as rivers. Some areas can only take you to the main stream and more streams would collide to take you towards the exit, or deathmarrow, or both (depending on what we decide).

Again, never setup veins to support the functionality of a location from the perspective of vein aware tools, instead, they need to make sens from a concept point of view. Someone that will understand the concept first, should be able to find the right tools and "abuse" it if the concept allows, but the concept itself should be flawless.

Also there are underground tunnels and very remote areas such as the prison. Consider _ALL_ places in the realm need to follow same heatvein concept...in some cases just mapping the veisn should reveal important secrets about the placement of those locations.

I am glad i have all of you in this team, as you all seem fully capable people to come with good ideas.

 

[Ungod]

Spoiler

 

(Even if I'm not participating, I hope I can still reply in this topic? safely, I mean :D) 

The first way is more conceptually challenging, as some lands (MB, for example) have many exits. If you consider the Wind's Sanctuary as the 'spring' of the streams, then you end up with 'power spots' on the map. That may collide (or converge??) with the concept of lands having scenes where 'territory power' is higher.

So I like the second way, albeit more difficult to set up. This way, capitols are simply 'pools' of heat, not originators. And if I'm not mistaken, capitols have higher territory power, making it easy to gather heat there, so it's marrying the concept of heat veins well.

 

I can't wait to see if the heat veins will have an impact on viscosity

 

[Aia del Mana]

2 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

About the veins and how they could be set

There are two conflicting ways of setting them up. Depending on what we decide about this, they will be useful for one or the other thing later. 

First i want to make it clear what they veins are, and i want you to follow their concept when placing them, completely disregarding any potential use. Any potential use will have to confront the way they are setup, and not the other way around, so forget about Darvin traveling them, or the needles or whatever.

The first way - most practical

Veins lead to a lands capitol when traveled inwards and to the lands exit when traveled outwards. 

Problems: This leaves some lands in confusion, as they have no capitol or a place that could be considered one. Also they might not all have an exit/entrance, mainly i am talking about NML. 

If this were the case for No Man's Land, one could consider, mayhap, that the veins lead from the Gazebo of Equilibrium outward and towards the Capitols of each respective land; in concept, imagine that the Gazebo were in perfect balance (hence, equilibrium) betwixt the lands, and that a slight push in any direction should cause one travelling along the heat-veins to then flow toward the respective capitol. In this sense, the "entrance" were the Gazebo itself, and the exits were the respective entrances to each land, for a continuous flow toward each capitol, and that each scene towards each capitol were representative of greater influence of that land, such that the capitol were the most influential site within each land. I suppose that this were somewhat inspired of the second idea, but a solution if indeed one must consider No Man's Land and its many gateways.

 

2 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

The second way - most beautiful

This is the original concept, one i still like very much, even if not the most practical one. Veins originate at the edges of the world, and follow a path towards the Death Marrow in necrovion. On their way, heat veins transport fresh heat across the realm, and as these veins touch the realm inhabitants, they get dirty, like polluted water. In necrovion, as they reach Death Marrow, heat already has converted into liquid dust.

Problems: this could mix well with the first way, if we consider them to originate in each lands capitol, and consider necrovion reversed polarity. This is probably the way i want it done, if you could plan a way to make sense. Having it done like this, also means there will be a disproportionate balance of forces between necrovion and the rest of the lands, but i am not sure what this means, if its an advantage or a disadvantage. Necrovion is closed and rule-less, so that would not be a problem, but it must make sense.

If this were so, and contingent on Necrovion being closed and free from rulership, then should all assume that there is no possibility of Necrovion ever becoming open, or of one ascending of its throne? One thinkst that should such political upheaval arise, that the relative advantage or disadvantage should have been considered when mapping of these veins. In example, if such heat veins all did flow toward Deathmarrow, one could consider merely to taint of certain heat and release it along the vein to cause of change in Deathmarrow; Necrovion's capital may thus find itself the centre of the interplay betwixt lands seeking to spread of certain influence.

[lashtal]

Very interesting concept, thanks for sharing it with us all!

I can see an analogy between heat veins and the circulatory system: all lands except Necrovion behaving like "systemic circulation", while Necrovion can be seen like "pulmonary circulation".

[Shemhazaj]

Heat veins a rivers or kind of twisted cardiovascular system. I like that idea.
And it would look great on an actual MD map.

I like the idea of capitols being sources and Deathmarrow a sort of power sump, but then there is the issue of actual map edges. Like for example Loreroot back entrance would on both sides lead out?
Such places could have veins leading undsrgroud, but probably most of them don't have direct underground locations.
Also locations underground themselves pose a challenge. Do they reflect the heat vein pattern of the locations above or have own unique sources and exit points?

Sorry if my points are vague, I'm just trying to grasp the concept instead of how it'd be done.

[Chewett]

8 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

- Chew if you have any unclarities about the tools or the new thigbs thet support, let me know

I appear to not have A25 access, I thought I did before, has something changed in requiring it?

[Chewett]

7 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Problems: This leaves some lands in confusion, as they have no capitol or a place that could be considered one. Also they might not all have an exit/entrance, mainly i am talking about NML. 

I would have said NML has a capital of GoE surely?

[Chewett]

7 hours ago, Muratus del Mur said:

Having it done like this, also means there will be a disproportionate balance of forces between necrovion and the rest of the lands, but i am not sure what this means, if its an advantage or a disadvantage. Necrovion is closed and rule-less, so that would not be a problem, but it must make sense.

Doing that would create an interesting area which could then have the next "stage" of MD take place in. The balance between NC and the rest of the world, staying away yet being drawn to it.

[Muratus del Mur]

You need to remember i want these in only two directions, in and out, this means that in places where you have multiple roads in and out, some will only take you there, but the location itself will also have just one way out and one way that it considers in. For example if you considers the gazebo, you need to decide what the main flow is, and where the gazebo will consider the vein to be in/out, even if all adiacent locations will consider the gazebo as in or out. I do not want multiple inputs and exists on the same location. This is a restriction that will lead to interesting things, and research possibilities.

The underground, in many cases if not all, integrates great with this, as the underground belongs mostly to Necrovion.

 

Lets allow enough time for planning.

Its the most important part of this task, regardless how long it takes. Setting the veins is just a matter of writing two coords in each location, but planning is what all this is about. 

[Aelis]

The second way (flowing towards Deathmarrow) might make things easier when it comes to disambiguation of out paths, since we can figure out a way towards Necrovion (and therefore Deathmarrow) from most locations in the realm. As for the in paths, we'd make them point to heat vein sources at each land (should there be multiple sources for some lands?), is that correct?

 

That way, in the GoE case, it should point out towards the Path of Loneliness (towards Howling Gates) and point inwards to itself (considering it as NML's heat vein source)?

 

[Syrian]

52 minutes ago, Aelis said:

The second way (flowing towards Deathmarrow) might make things easier when it comes to disambiguation of out paths, since we can figure out a way towards Necrovion (and therefore Deathmarrow) from most locations in the realm. As for the in paths, we'd make them point to heat vein sources at each land (should there be multiple sources for some lands?), is that correct?

 

That way, in the GoE case, it should point out towards the Path of Loneliness (towards Howling Gates) and point inwards to itself (considering it as NML's heat vein source)?

 

this was my thought too after reading mur's last post, not as considering it to be NML's heat source, but it's a very "confusing" place, in that i

t would be hard to decide in which direction to travel, if one option is possible, but the option is null. there are too many routes to be able to decide. maybe the flow is too great to actually move against it in that case, too much turbulance

[Ungod]

Spoiler

 

I'm butting in again, sorry. 

For practical purposes, instead of starting from each capitol and going towards Deathmarrow, can't you go backwards, from Deathmarrow to the 'edges of the world'? Of course, it all converges in Necrovion, but reverse the perspective and it all originates in Necrovion.

 

 

[Muratus del Mur]

Like i said before, don't focus on current uses of veins, traveling was just a potential use i experimented with. Focus on the concept. If the concept is flawlessly represented, the rest will adapt to it.

You have all the time you need to plan this right.

 

[Ungod]

This is a mad, mad idea. These 'veins' will make the cube alive, but there's nothing to compare them to irl...in a body, the brain sends and receives information along nerves, but Deathmarrow is no brain. The heart distributes blood, but Deathmarrow is no heart for the cube. Comparing them to the systems of Western medicine is misleading, it's better to compare them to the meridians of Chi from the traditional Chinese medicine, since those deal primarily with electricity and heat circulation in the body. 

But then, the veins and nerves and invisible Chi meridians all follow the body structure and the way they are arranged show the role of the body parts. In the case of this cube, if it all converges into the arbitrary point of Deathmarrow, what is the role of this point for the existence of the cube? And what kind of cube are we talking about, ultimately, with such a 'centre of gravity'? The GoE is irrelevant...

This is too heavy for a Monday, but at least I can confirm this is madness.

[Aelis]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:34 AM, Muratus del Mur said:

if we consider them to originate in each lands capitol, and consider necrovion reversed polarity.

 

On 1/26/2020 at 1:34 AM, Muratus del Mur said:

Veins originate at the edges of the world, and follow a path towards the Death Marrow in necrovion.

I was thinking that most capitols can seen as close to edge of the world due to how high they reach (see the Gateway mountaintop, for example). From that point of view, it makes sense for them to be the heat vein origins, making the heat flow from the borders towards Deathmarrow, which due to NC reverse polarity would in turn reach the borders again, but now "expelling" liquid dust. Does that make sense?

[Muratus del Mur]

studying heat veins should reveal this concept that liquid dust is a transformed version of heat, like a reversed polarity heat.

The veins cross entire realm and reach Deathmarrow (that visually represents the emergence of liquid dust). You could set the veins towards Deathmarrow and forget about reversing them in nc, if this helps, because it still makes sense to consider the transformation to happen at the Deathmarrow and not over entire Necrovion territory.  

 

I am not even sure if liquid dust is available s a resource yet  ..but i know the plan for it very well, it should be something obtainable from Deathmarrow only,  with one exception in NML via a side quest. As a resource, this should be very rare, maybe with expiry date or other special properties , usable to taint creatures ...and..players.

Tainting creatures is something initially tested on angiens, but could be extended to any (if we ever get the artworks done), and tainting players is something that becomes more and more possible, considering the Darvin experiment and nightmode.

 

The are plans scattered over 15years of changes, apparently i am much better at such things than knowing what i did yesterday

 

update: there are only 4 items with a name related to liquid dust so its not implemented yet, we can go on with the plan