Skill Damage

[unbelievable power]

I believe Skill Damage should be removed. Many people would stay online more often if they didn't fear losing stat points. It is my belief that more people would play the game, and stay online for longer periods of time. I realise there are probably multiple issues as to why it was implemented, (Server load, stat farming, etc...) but i believe another route could be taken to try an ensure more people are online and playing. The days of GoE and Willow's Shop being primary training grounds has long been dead. I propose we get rid of the biggest obstacle to having a popular place to fight. Vote for skill damage to be taken out of MD! I'm not saying remove the loss cap. Just possibly instead of punishing those with too many losses, perhaps we should reward those who are able to keep balance.

[redneck]

i am with you UP... you see how many players Mur has lossed playing this game bunches and bunches because of skill damage. I think that if Mur disabled skill damage players would play more and not feel so up tight about htere wins and losses. And mur would get tons of ppl back playing online and htere would eb much more activity.

[Pipstickz]

I'm not an overly strong fighter, it's no secret, but I've managed to stay out of skill damage...I mean, 1000 losses is quite a bit, work with it.

[Amoran Kalamanira Kol]

I have also noticed that it is somewhat difficult to gather wins to balance yourself, sword balance is not an easy thing to achieve. Again, I remember all of this being in place for a reason though.

[unbelievable power]

Sure it was for a reason, but i believe the effects of it are more damaging than what was going on before. And im not suggesting he remove the loss cap, just make it to where people wouldn't be scared to set up for 6 hours on idle. Kill the skilldamage!

[redneck]

Kill The Skill Damage!

[Yrthilian]

I have no issue with the skill damage
but that may be because for most of my time on md i was
always ballanced. In saying that while i am not in an
allaince i did loose my ballance. but hey it happenes.

But why was skill damaged brough in?

If i remember it corectly (i could be wrong in this)
i beleve it was brought in because of the aboue of
beeing very unballanced and fighting player whom
kept there ballance. From what i remember this gave great
stat increases and honor bonus for thoes with major losses.
This was beeing aboused some what from what i remember that is.

So the stat damage was put in place to stop that issue and to
stop the abuse of stat gains. so why should it be removed
it is YOUR responasablity to keep YOUR ballance. that is what MD revolves
around BALLANCE.

So i say keep the stat damage it is there for a reasion.

That is just my 2 cents on this matter

[Ledah]

Keep the skilldamage!

The reason Mur put skilldamge is because people were gathering so many losses, for normal players who didn't have a million losses, their honou was reduced to -'s in one attack. If you take it away, people will farm losses again.

[unbelievable power]

I dont think ya'll are reading my post right. I didn't say remove the loss cap. Im not proposing this so i can start stat farming again. Im proposing this so that people will actually stay online more. Wasn't it great when you could log on at any time of day and find suitable people to train on and kill? Wasn't it awesome when GGG wasn't the primary training ground. What im saying is MANY PEOPLE DO NOT LEAVE THEIR CHARACTERS ONLINE WHEN THEY GET DONE PLAYING. But it used to be the norm. I think it would be an improvement to the game. I think it would keep more people online playing each day. Down with Skill Damage!

[Firsanthalas]

I'll say one thing. In my opinion (and it is only that) it seems that people are setting much tougher def rits in general. A lot of people seem concerend with getting losses and especially with tokens, are setting some rather hard def rits. Now this might sound whiny and Im waiting for a barrage of comments like 'you just aren't doing it right', or 'I don't have a problem' but I really do feel that its getting harder and harder to score wins with more mundane creatures and rits. So before you start slagging me off, build a rit with untokened and fairly unlevelled critters and start going around attacking people in general and see how you get on. And I mean attacking people at least, if not more powerful than you are, not picking off weaker prey. Please think in particular of the people that have made the transition from MP4 to MP5. Its these that are generally the most vulnerable and can find it very tough to adjust and get used to it. They very much are small fish in a big sea when they join MP5 ranks.

In the old days, there were people that would set rits that were much easier to defeat and also would look for losses from time to time. Now, it seems no MP5 wants a loss and that in itself seems contrary to the concept of balance.

[unbelievable power]

[quote name='Firsanthalas' date='01 December 2009 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1259699803' post='48859']
I'll say one thing. In my opinion (and it is only that) it seems that people are setting much tougher def rits in general. A lot of people seem concerend with getting losses and especially with tokens, are setting some rather hard def rits. Now this might sound whiny and Im waiting for a barrage of comments like 'you just aren't doing it right', or 'I don't have a problem' but I really do feel that its getting harder and harder to score wins with more mundane creatures and rits. So before you start slagging me off, build a rit with untokened and fairly unlevelled critters and start going around attacking people in general and see how you get on. And I mean attacking people at least, if not more powerful than you are, not picking off weaker prey. Please think in particular of the people that have made the transition from MP4 to MP5. Its these that are generally the most vulnerable and can find it very tough to adjust and get used to it. They very much are small fish in a big sea when they join MP5 ranks.

In the old days, there were people that would set rits that were much easier to defeat and also would look for losses from time to time. Now, it seems no MP5 wants a loss and that in itself seems contrary to the concept of balance.
[/quote]

Well said sir! Someone else understands what i mean about it messing up our MD! Skill damage does, in fact, make people set up much tougher defenses for fear of losing and getting into the stat loss area. Good Point thanks bro!

[dst]

The cap should stay otherwise I will go back to my 2500 more loses then wins. But the skill damage could go. Although I, personally, will probably try to keep my balance because right now it is far more better then the other option.This means that I will not put easier rits...

[Kamisha]

OK I vote on the side of skill damage keeps me out of the losses more. Though I think an outing of skill damage would be a foolish move as the same outcome as before skill damage would result. So I counter your proposal with another proposal. Once getting to the loss cap you still do take skill damage but only by losing through an attack but not through defending. I up right out understand this will take a bit more coding but skill damage just setting up skill damage coding used alot of coding as well.

[unbelievable power]

[quote name='dst' date='01 December 2009 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1259702881' post='48863']
The cap should stay otherwise I will go back to my 2500 more loses then wins. But the skill damage could go. Although I, personally, will probably try to keep my balance because right now it is far more better then the other option.This means that I will not put easier rits...
[/quote]
Thats fantastic, i always enjoyed trying to take out more powerful rits through some strategy and some luck. Im sure many others are also balanced and wouldn't set up easier rituals either. I still believe a more "reward the balanced" instead of "punish the unbalanced" method would work better.

And as far as the coding goes, i do not know what went into implementing this change. (I mean cmon he could leave the skilldamage code in there and change numbers to 0's as a quick fix, albiet sloppy) Im merely making a poll to see if others feel like i do and miss playing for hours and hours a day. I am hoping the results of this poll come out favorably and perhaps Mur will change something. I just honestly feel like this is the key reason as to why when i log online i see no one to fight with.

[I am Bored]

if skill damage got removed what would keep my stats from returning to normal levels? like my attack at -400!!!

[Orlando Gardiner]

I'm with you.

I mean, if you get skill dmg for losses, you probably decide not to want them, and log of.

in exchange, it iwll be harder to get wins.., so people try to protect their balance better.., by trying to lose as les as possible.., how? by logging of..


this is a spiral which has to be broken, otherwise people will log of more, and the whole fighting part of magicduel will be ruined..

[Kyphis the Bard]

[quote name='Kamisha' date='02 December 2009 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1259703396' post='48864']
OK I vote on the side of skill damage keeps me out of the losses more. Though I think an outing of skill damage would be a foolish move as the same outcome as before skill damage would result. So I counter your proposal with another proposal. Once getting to the loss cap you still do take skill damage but only by losing through an attack but not through defending. I up right out understand this will take a bit more coding but skill damage just setting up skill damage coding used alot of coding as well.
[/quote]
Personally I think this is dead on target, Kamisha.

But if skill damage was to go, to help prevent the stat farming through honor from returning I would suggest that the loss cap is different for each MP level. First at MP3 1000, then at MP4 750, then at MP5 500.

I like Skill damage. I don't think it should be removed, and I think Kamisha's idea is a good one (so long as 1000 is a hard coded loss cap and not a psychological one). But because this will mean more people will operate from the region of skill damage, I think it best if there is also an adjustment to the caps anyway (as I suggested prior)

[unbelievable power]

[quote name='Kyphis the Bard' date='01 December 2009 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1259707757' post='48871']
Personally I think this is dead on target, Kamisha.

But if skill damage was to go, to help prevent the stat farming through honor from returning I would suggest that the loss cap is different for each MP level. First at MP3 1000, then at MP4 750, then at MP5 500.

I like Skill damage. I don't think it should be removed, and I think Kamisha's idea is a good one (so long as 1000 is a hard coded loss cap and not a psychological one). But because this will mean more people will operate from the region of skill damage, I think it best if there is also an adjustment to the caps anyway (as I suggested prior)
[/quote]

I think lowering the cap would be a fantastic idea. But as far as you like skilldamage?? People used to be on MD 24/7, you could find any range and calibur of opponent in 1 room. Now people don't want losses to pile up, so they only get done what they need to and get out. Stat farming is going to go on no matter how hard they try to limit it, some people just like to fight. But they wont be stat farming via bonus xp anymore, Only good old fashioned fighting. It shouldn't keep everyone from still spending the better part of their day online here. Having the cap lowered would reduce the amount of honor lost by some, but not as much as you think. I believe rewarding those balanced or close to it more somehow, so that they dont suffer the honor penalties would be a good idea to include in there.

[Master]

I agree that Skill Damage is hurting the game !


Yeah ... a lot of people are logging off because of it .... and some wouldn't have quit playing the game if it wasn't for the skill damage !


BUT


Removing it is not the best option either ! I sugest that IF Mur removes it , he should find a replacementfor it ! Something like a punishment too, but not so harsh .... like temporray skill damage or something !

[Udgard]

Hmm, so... people farmed losses to exploit the honor bonus. Yet, skill damage is annoying and keeps people logged of. So, why not just make that at the loss cap (1k loss more than wins), you gain nothing from battles (XP, wins for creatures) just as if you're at max XP or at too much negative honor? This way we won't need skill damage and people won't be able to exploit the honor bonus as well (I'm dooming myself with this suggestion =\, btw ).

Firs has a very good point there. Nowadays, training non-tokened creatures from scratch is almost impossible without help from another player. Back then you would be able to train them yourself by finding targets that you could somehow manage to defeat without full-army. Nowadays its almost impossible.

[kamate]

remove tokens

[Peace]

Remove tokens is a most complexed thing to do. People have already spending a decent amount of their money to get them. If you remove them then you will somehow need to either return the credits spend on them (which is not such a good idea considering that most have tokened creatures which they did not spend one penny on them)or give something else in return. Balanacing tokens is a more reasonable request and solutions can be found such as the principle limit which it is indeed something.

Removing the loss cap, I still dot think is a good idea though since as Udgard said there is this matter or honor which was the reason why this limit was implamented, right?

Kill the Skill damage? Yes, that indeed might bring more players back into online activity and what (again) Udgard said to not count stats or wins because of the cap sounds good to me. It was also there for a reason but if you can change it slightly for the better of MD do it.

I am one of those who miss the old days when Willow's Shop was crowded by fighters, stat farmers or not. Many things could one do there, from training to learning and even (although some discourage it) roleplaying. Not to mention that in most places you would go you would see people online and also train as well. But in order to get that back, we do not just need to get skill damage gone (you can actually regain the wins if you want to, even now) but we could also use more people to get in the MD community, fighters or not.

[Observer]

The real issue with honour is that both balance and too many losses are beneficial. Too many wins is NOT. Accidentally getting too many wins is almost impossible these days (I got some during HC but I lost most beating/getting beaten by dst) therefore finding anyone not artificially put into the position who has more wins then losses is very rare. I say, in MP5 add something to make having too many wins beneficial and remove the exp benefits for being at too many losses but capping both wins and losses in such a way that you don't gain anything from fights when your at the cap (like honour) it would (hopefully) create a "balance" between the strongest players having too many wins, the average being balanced and weaker players training in different way. They'd never have honour issues and could try beating balanced players and players with high wins who have capped (generally, those would have honour issues so the reward would have to be pretty high to get people interested) Players getting stronger would move up for better rewards.

Hope it's comprehensible
~Obs

[Orlando Gardiner]

easy, find an new idea that will be only avaideable at mp5.

what about guild wars? or crusades? giving each land his own knights and their grails..


should be able to get a nice short of castle wars idea..

giving everyone living in that country 2% atribute bonus.., not that much but still a reason to fight for ..