lashtal

I apologize for the delay in starting this, but I had to fix some connection issues. Despite the small audience, this part ended in a very inspiring discussion. Lecture 2/4 [spoiler] lashtal: Tonight's part was extracted from an old tome... lashtal: A tome written long ago by Khalazdad, the first human being crowned in Necrovion. lashtal: Someone whose ramblings and theories are still preserved and pondered on. : lashtal sits down and opens a big dusty book. : Azkhael seats himself besides the gates lashtal: "Fear is a weak blade... lashtal: Nobody enjoys being afraid and fear usually is expressed as anger. And anger can hurt you. lashtal: Hence, you will not usually use fear as a weapon, but you must understand its workings to benefit from its teachings, as it will be present frequently in our dealings with others. lashtal: Fear is difficult to manage or assuage. lashtal: Sometimes the best thing you can do to play fear is to turn its course, help it find a new target. lashtal: A little push is all it takes, a little reasonable doubt, a little nagging conscience. lashtal: Those who fear you can be made to fear your enemy. Gently. lashtal: Or a softer target if it advantages you. lashtal: Keep in mind: try not to make others fear you. lashtal: Even your greatest enemy must think you weaker than you truly are. lashtal: If they do not fear you, if they hold you in contempt, they will not bring the forces needed to eliminate you. lashtal: Thus, you may have the mightiest of enemies and withstand them." : Azkhael softly turns his head, inquisitively, at lashtal lashtal: *turns to him* Questions? Comments? lashtal: Otherwise I have two short stories to share about the subject. lashtal: "A man feared what he saw when he looked into a cave. It was dark, and made noise, and he saw something moving inside. lashtal: He went home and nursed his fear. His fear turned to hate - he hated what could make him feel so afraid. lashtal: He returned to the cave full of hate, and found that what was inside seemed to hate him back. When he drew his sword, he heard the darkness hiss at him, and saw a movement in the dark. lashtal: But he decided to master his fear. He entered the cave with his sword drawn, charged from the back. lashtal: The clamor of his armor echoed off the walls and became the sound of an army in his ears. When he reached the back of the cave he found what defeated him utterly. lashtal: It was a mirror." lashtal: *looks around with a grin...* Bedtime stories indeed... lashtal: Last one: lashtal: "A man feared high places. Each day he had to cross a long rope bridge to reach his fields, and each day he felt terror at the deed. lashtal: He crossed with his eyes closed, gripping the ropes with white knuckled fists, side step by easing side step. lashtal: One day a traveller taught him a mantra to master his fear. He repeated it over and over until he could cross the bridge with his eyes open. lashtal: He began to grow bold, and released his grip on the rope railings, and eventually walked in the middle of the bridge eater than keeping to the edges. lashtal: The edges, as it turns out, had been the safest place on the bridge. He fell through a rotten board and died one morning." Azkhael: I shall comment briefly on the first part, then on the two stories. lashtal: Hit me! Azkhael: A: indeed, if one expects a logical methodology from one's own enemies in dealing with a threat, to be underestimated, to not be seem as a threat, and hence to move freely, is a blessing. Azkhael: But fear can be a tool to be used against one's enemies, an open threat of cripplement that stops a stronger party from weakening itself against you, and annihilating you in the process. Azkhael: Against an emotionally susceptible party, it likewise shares that double edge. For they might lash irrationally against you, or they might go on the defensive even when the opportunity for an offensive presents itself. lashtal: I agree on everything... Fear is indeed not a weak blade, but rather a double-sided blade Azkhael: Stories: fear can be a crippling weakness, producing a threat where there is none (story 1) , but fear can also be the recognition of a perfectly real threat (story 2) . Azkhael: Both would indicate that fear's nature, in those regards, is ultimately circumstantial. Azkhael: The question that is posed, from therein, is to what extent those circumstances can be recognized, and employed in one's favor, or avoided. Azkhael: I believe that may be later addressed. lashtal: This is a very good point. AmberRune: If the fear -while seemingly real- is relatively small or manageable, can't it also goad people into action? Azkhael: In that sense, the two stories are interconnected, but that interconnection, in turn, relates directly to the first part. Azkhael: The first part speaks of how to use other's fears. The stories speak of one's own fears. But, ultimately, they speak of the same thing, and how it can be used. Azkhael: @AmberRune: yes, by extension, presenting an enemy as fearsome, though not invincibly so, is to point them as a manageable threat. lashtal: Personally, I've always been more interested in learning from my own fears... But, indeed, being skilled at using others fears can lead to significant power... lashtal: And as you pointed out, it's all inter-connected… Azkhael: If I might ask, what do one's fears teach them? Not in particulars, for I understand those may be variable, but in a general sense? lashtal: "Them" being who? Azkhael: Oneself. lashtal: You're asking, what could I learn from my own fear? Azkhael: In a sense, though the answer you can give will, indeed, pertain to yourself. lashtal: Trying to stay in a general sense... : Krioni lands quietly lashtal: Analyzing why we got scared by a certain image/situation is the key to our weak spots, our fragilities, the dark corners of our-selves. : lashtal nods to Krioni lashtal: For example, let me take a nightmare I had a few days ago... lashtal: I was napping, it was a semi-lucid dream in which I knew I was dreaming, but I could not control its course. lashtal: At a certain point, while still dreaming, I wanted to wake up. lashtal: So... I dreamt I was struggling to wake up, but actually I was still dreaming. lashtal: In my dream, once awake, I wasn't feeling good because I still felt very sleepy, unable to focus, almost retarded... lashtal: I looked for my girlfriend, trying hard to express how I felt... lashtal: I remember I said something like "I must have hit my head hard, I feel I lost my mind." Azkhael: Interesting, much comes to mind already, but, please, do continue. lashtal: Analyzing such a bad dream.. what could I realize about myself? AmberRune: I'm confused, what was the bad dream part of it? lashtal: That in the dream I couldn't wake up and I stayed like suspended in between the two states? Azkhael: These are only guesses, however you are wary of being powerless over yourself. Azkhael: Or, alternatively, though not far removed, you are wary of losing yourself. lashtal: Exactly: one of my biggest fears/concerns is to lose my mind or part of my lucid state. Azkhael: What was your own insight? lashtal: For someone playing with lucid dreams and altered states of consciousness... having a solid, lucid base on which to rely and start from is mandatory. Azkhael: Thank you for sharing. lashtal: I hope this answered your question.. Azkhael: May I use the opportunity to briefly relate to my comments during the previous lecture? lashtal: Of course you can. Azkhael: When I said I do not believe we can think without employing the logical form, I did not mean to say the logical form is wholly sufficient. Azkhael: Namely, despite that comment, I agree with every single one of today's statements. Azkhael: Understanding oneself requires reflections that cannot be limited by rationalization. : lashtal nods as he listens Azkhael: However, when you speak of the importance of a lucid mind in the process (...) I would, temptingly, relate that to that previous comment of which, in reflecting, language may present itself as an inescapable resource. Azkhael: One that, itself, defines us irreversibly, though it does not do so alone. Azkhael: What are your views on that? lashtal: Lucidity is important as base-ground. It's our reference, so to say. lashtal: At the same time... lashtal: Lucidity and rationality should initially be avoided when confronting with dreams or fears. lashtal: One has to abandon him/her-self first. Azkhael: In the act of experiencing them, or in the act of reflecting over them? lashtal: In the act of experiencing them, to fully experience them... : Azkhael nods lashtal: Reflecting requires rationality, but that's the second phase Azkhael: I concur, so far. Azkhael: Would you say one can reflect without rationality, however? lashtal: Could be a lexical issue here, but to me reflecting-analyzing implies rationality. Azkhael: As it does to me. But that is the curious thing. More and more, we are led to believe language is molded across "channels". Azkhael: I have met individuals who claimed they were able to think, to wield an elaborate logical form, in patterns that could only strike me as utterly alien. Azkhael: An austriac mathematician that mutilated himself - his own brain, to be exact - obsessed with what he deemed were ingrained limitations to his thought patterns - inconsistencies - comes to mind. lashtal: Well... What if I tell you I experienced a non-tridimensional world, where the states of matter were no solid, liquid or gas but something in between? Azkhael: I cannot actually conceive it, but I find it intriguingly feasible. lashtal: It was a mental image, but its memory is more vivid than what I'm starring at right now. Azkhael: I believe our mind is flawed, that, even in thought, we are limited to reproducing experiences, and that we may be able to think in fashions we cannot conceive of without such experiences. Azkhael: We once disregarded much as madness - under a now devalued psychiatric paradigm - which we are now forced to reevaluate. Azkhael: That is to say, those were the paradigms of a positivist psychiatry, that has since been put in check. : lashtal nods in agreement lashtal: I wish to thank you for your contribution Azkhael: No, I should be the one thanking you for the insights. Azkhael: I hope it was as interesting a conversation for you as it was for me. lashtal: It was indeed, and it would have been a mere "revival" without your comments lashtal: And with this I'm leaving... The cemetery calls. AmberRune: G'night lash! Azkhael: Farewell, lashtal. lashtal: I'll post a log tomorrow morning AmberRune: yays! : Assira the Black nods to lashtal Azkhael: Until we next meet. : [Spell] CURSE YOU ALL MEN! [/spoiler]

After this first meeting, participants were assigned homeworks. Initially I didn't mean to share that part, but since your answers were nice... here they are! [spoiler] Homework: Argumentum in terrorem This technique uses deception (the exploiting of existing fears) to create support for the speaker's proposal. The form is the following: Either P (the speaker's proposal) or Q is true. Q is frightening and sometimes presented as P's sole alternative. Therefore, P must be accepted. Few examples: "If you don't believe in God, you will burn in Hell forever." "If you don't kill or betray someone, you'll never be accepted as a true Necrovion." These are fallacies, because regardless an outcome is frightening, it has no relevance to whether the speaker's proposal is true or not. Task: give another example of argumentum in terrorem. Your answers so far: "Protest against current government and bring it down or stay in recession." Ary Endleg "If you dont do your homework, lashtal will dig your skull on the cemetery soon." Eara Meraia "If you do not pick and kill one of your daughters, both will be killed." Aeoshattr "If you touch Lash's strangling rope, you'll choke instantly." Lania "If you don't eat your meat, how can you have any pudding?" Gljivoje "If you play with fire, you will be burnt" Azkhael "If you aren't willing to spend time with the heretic archer, you'll become the god he hates" AmberRune [/spoiler]

On a personal level, GotR mean little to me. No offense intended, but I never felt close to Loreroot. On the other hand, we have plenty of inactive or semi-inactive alliances. Some of them were saved from disbanding, others survived without the minimum number of members... Why should GotR or Loreroot follow a different path?

This thread is meant to contain the logs from the meetings at the Howling Gates. Please refrain from posting here. I would like to keep discussions in game rather than on forum. If you wish to share your ideas or discuss anything related to the subject, you're welcome to participate to next meetings (there will be 3 more at least, always at the Howling Gates, date and time will be announced on the Mood Panel). Lecture 1/4: [spoiler][24/10/14 00:28] lashtal:Greetings once again [24/10/14 00:28] :Lania nods at Lash [24/10/14 00:28] Azkhael:Or rather, don't, since lashtal has returned. [24/10/14 00:28] Azkhael:It is an article of questionable valuable, as any on the topic is, about water dowsing. [24/10/14 00:29] Azkhael:It does, however, enjoy a good range of references. [24/10/14 00:29] lashtal:Water dowsing? [24/10/14 00:29] Ary Endleg:shouldn't you show it to Amber then rather than me? [24/10/14 00:29] Ary Endleg:you two were talking about it :D [24/10/14 00:29] Azkhael:I would, but she has departed to lands far far away. [24/10/14 00:30] Ary Endleg:okay... so lets start [24/10/14 00:30] Azkhael:By which I mean she will probably be back within the hour. But I like being dramatic. [24/10/14 00:31] lashtal:I will wait 5 more minutes for others to come... [24/10/14 00:32] lashtal:After that I am honored to introduce to you a topic I've always been fascinated by. [24/10/14 00:33] lashtal:Ideally, this Fear class will be divided into 4 parts. [24/10/14 00:33] lashtal:Those who miss a part may ask for a transcription... [24/10/14 00:34] lashtal:But more than just lectures, I'd like these encounters to be discussions [24/10/14 00:35] lashtal:Today I will present the 1st part, the outer part. [24/10/14 00:36] lashtal:During next encounters, we will go beyond the surface, and consider fear from other points of view. [24/10/14 00:36] :Lania listens [24/10/14 00:37] lashtal:The 2nd part will be about the role of imagination... [24/10/14 00:37] lashtal:The 3rd one about the side-effects fear may trigger... [24/10/14 00:37] lashtal:While the last one will consider fear as a teacher. [24/10/14 00:40] lashtal:Oh... Was forgetting... [24/10/14 00:40] lashtal:You'll be given home-works. *grins* [24/10/14 00:40] :Lania swallows hard [24/10/14 00:40] :Ary Endleg sulks [24/10/14 00:41] :Aeoshattr grins from ear to ear [24/10/14 00:42] lashtal:All right, let's get started. [24/10/14 00:44] :lashtal takes out a dusty notebook and blows on it, raising a huge thick cloud.. [24/10/14 00:44] :Ary Endleg coughs [24/10/14 00:45] :[Spell] screams [24/10/14 00:45] lashtal:"Fear is a feeling closely tied to the most primitive parts of the brain. [24/10/14 00:46] *Eara Meraia*:and here she is. Thanks [24/10/14 00:46] *Eara Meraia*:oh! lecture!!! [24/10/14 00:46] :Aeoshattr looks up at the clouds for a brief moment [24/10/14 00:46] lashtal: *nods to Eara* Welcome. [24/10/14 00:46] :*Eara Meraia* smiles [24/10/14 00:47] :*Eara Meraia* passed Gold coin to Neno Veliki [24/10/14 00:47] lashtal:Mind the chairs.. they're quite noisy [24/10/14 00:47] :Ary Endleg mumbles about people being always late [24/10/14 00:47] *Eara Meraia*:now I can listen carefully [24/10/14 00:47] :lashtal clears his throat [24/10/14 00:47] lashtal:"Fear is a feeling closely tied to the most primitive parts of the brain. [24/10/14 00:47] lashtal:It is a basic survival mechanism, triggered by specific stimuli and least amenable to reason and consciousness. [24/10/14 00:48] lashtal:Interesting to notice, people and animals can develop specific fears as a result of learning, not only from personal history. [24/10/14 00:48] lashtal:This means fear can be taught, and the subject conditioned to fear even something never experienced. [24/10/14 00:49] lashtal:Although these techniques have their side effects, fear can be an effective tool to change attitudes. [24/10/14 00:50] lashtal:Nature and all the realms we've experienced are full of examples... [24/10/14 00:51] lashtal:The point being: sometimes a deterrent accomplishes more than an open fight... [24/10/14 00:52] lashtal:Take scarecrows. [24/10/14 00:53] lashtal:Their obvious purpose is to discourage birds from feeding on seedlings. [24/10/14 00:53] lashtal:The practices of a hanging a dead crow, or spreading nightshade seeds amidst the edible ones, work in the same direction... *grins* [24/10/14 00:53] lashtal:... But I sense there are questions... [24/10/14 00:53] :*Eara Meraia* chuckles [24/10/14 00:54] Ary Endleg:Should we be afraid since you killed Mur? [24/10/14 00:54] *Eara Meraia*: *coughs* I wonder what parts of brain do you consider primitive [24/10/14 00:55] lashtal: *chuckles at Ary's question* I honestly don't know... [24/10/14 00:55] : Mallos throws the dice and gets 1 [24/10/14 00:55] Fire Starter: *grins* That's a good question to a skull collector... [24/10/14 00:55] *Eara Meraia*: *pokes Ary* youre even afraid of water [24/10/14 00:55] Azkhael:Hmm, wouldn't you say that the fear derived from a scarecrow, for a crow, is inherent, rather than acquired, relating to its movement, rather than its appearance? [24/10/14 00:55] Eon:. [24/10/14 00:55] Ary Endleg: *pokes her back* so are you [24/10/14 00:56] lashtal: *to Eara* What I mean is: even the most primitive species experience fear.. For it's a vital mechanism [24/10/14 00:56] Fire Starter: *coughs* Stop teasing my Cloud please. [24/10/14 00:56] lashtal:Interesting question, Azkhael... [24/10/14 00:56] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis lashtal [24/10/14 00:57] Fire Starter:LOL [24/10/14 00:57] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis Azkhael [24/10/14 00:57] Fire Starter:Now this isn't evil. It's just expected... [24/10/14 00:57] Ary Endleg:yes! nice script [24/10/14 00:57] :[Spell] go back to nature eon [24/10/14 00:58] Fire Starter:Listen everyone - this is a 12 minutes break. [24/10/14 00:59] *Eara Meraia*:I agree, lashtal, though as a further comment - all brain structures are highly complex, so are the amygdalae :P [24/10/14 01:01] Fire Starter:Indeed, dear, but complex doesn't exclude primitive, and vise versa [24/10/14 01:01] *Eara Meraia*:yes, I understood, that lash meant primitive in evolutionary terms [24/10/14 01:02] Fire Starter:but we are going quite away from the subject. Do you want me to kill the chat again? [24/10/14 01:02] Fire Starter:I can't deny I am tempted, but still... [24/10/14 01:02] Aeoshattr:Wouldn't a creature need a nervous system in order to experience fear? Unless this has already been discussed, it would seem to me that "primitive" is not the word to be used [24/10/14 01:02] *Eara Meraia*:anyhow, along with the fear, I do hope we talk about erasing of fear tonight, highly interesting subject [24/10/14 01:03] Aeoshattr:What is the point of erasing fear? *chuckles* That would be boring and plain dangerous [24/10/14 01:03] Fire Starter:Oh, erasing the fear is simple. [24/10/14 01:03] *Eara Meraia*:nervous system is needed Aeo, primitive was applied to brain structures [24/10/14 01:03] Fire Starter:Not dangerous at all, Aeoshattr [24/10/14 01:03] : Eon throws the dice and gets 8 [24/10/14 01:03] Aeoshattr:Is it not? There is a reason why mortals fear. That is to keep them out of harm's way. [24/10/14 01:04] Aeoshattr:Fear not danger and you are bound to injure or kill yourself. Unless you're awfully lucky or skilled. [24/10/14 01:04] : *Nimrodel* was dragged by Eon [24/10/14 01:05] *Eara Meraia*:depends on the kind of fear, and the amount. [24/10/14 01:05] *Eara Meraia*:some kinds of fear are rather ridiculous, other useful [24/10/14 01:06] Aeoshattr:That is absolutely true. [24/10/14 01:06] Fire Starter:Intentionaly charging at dangerous situations isn't something, that fear drives. [24/10/14 01:06] Aeoshattr:But even the most ridiculous fear can be useful. [24/10/14 01:06] *Eara Meraia*:since fear can be conditioned, "mistakes" happen [24/10/14 01:06] :Aeoshattr grins [24/10/14 01:06] lashtal:Ehm [24/10/14 01:07] lashtal:That is the point, Aeo [24/10/14 01:07] Fire Starter:Fear is only a word. It exists only because we have given it a name [24/10/14 01:07] *Eara Meraia*:may be useful, but mostly it is limiting. Lets imagine you are scared of grasans shade. what this fear can give you [24/10/14 01:07] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis *Eara Meraia* [24/10/14 01:08] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis lashtal [24/10/14 01:08] Azkhael:mm• [24/10/14 01:08] Fire Starter:So, this happens on every lecture, lash? [24/10/14 01:08] Aeoshattr:I didn't claim it would be useful for the person that feels the fear, Eara *chuckles* [24/10/14 01:08] lashtal:Hopefully we'll end to consider even the stupidest fear as a valuable teacher [24/10/14 01:09] Azkhael:Necessarily so? [24/10/14 01:10] Aeoshattr:In fact... The more ridiculous a fear is, the more easily usable by others it becomes. [24/10/14 01:11] Ary Endleg:Eon is either out of casts or only has 4 more :D [24/10/14 01:11] Ary Endleg:Besides, I have no problem in reading silvertongue text [24/10/14 01:12] Aeoshattr: (^) [24/10/14 01:12] Fire Starter:Life begins where fear ends. It's that simple [24/10/14 01:13] Aeoshattr:I still believe life can also end where fear ends. You could consider it a gamble. Casting fear away will liberate you. One way or the other [24/10/14 01:15] Azkhael:Those are rather arbitrary statements. [24/10/14 01:16] Fire Starter:Presactly! [24/10/14 01:17] Aeoshattr:Picture fear of heights. You may defeat it and go on a dangerous rock climbing hike. It may liberate you, not feeling the fear and accomplishing something that you wouldn't have attempted before [24/10/14 01:17] Aeoshattr:But one small slip, one misguided step and you plummet to your death. A death that fear would have easily prevented. [24/10/14 01:18] Ary Endleg:rope! [24/10/14 01:18] Ary Endleg:also... you should have 8 spare lives.... [24/10/14 01:19] :Aeoshattr chuckles a bit [24/10/14 01:19] Fire Starter:Who said that exact wrong step isn't the most important one in your life that you should make? The step to your death. [24/10/14 01:19] Fire Starter:The step to your liberation [24/10/14 01:20] Azkhael:Feel free not to reply to the PMs once Silvertongue is over, lashtal. I am only using the time window. [24/10/14 01:20] Fire Starter:But I will be silent from now. [24/10/14 01:20] Ary Endleg:silver is over [24/10/14 01:20] lashtal:You're free to discuss more, I am enjoying it. I won't add more till next class. [24/10/14 01:20] Aeoshattr:Which is why I said it would liberate you one way or the other. Either in success or death. [24/10/14 01:21] Azkhael:Hmm, I thought it had been recast. [24/10/14 01:21] Aeoshattr: (Taken to the extreme, to illustrate the point) [24/10/14 01:21] Azkhael:Do nevermind that then. [24/10/14 01:21] lashtal:Just one thing. Banishing nightmares and fears absent-mindedly, like swapping the air, is just a way to look away. You may pretend your fears don't exist, but neither you learn nor you resolve them. [24/10/14 01:22] Fire Starter:It only depends wether we are ready to take that one step. Because usually when we are ready for smth, Life presents it to us [24/10/14 01:23] Fire Starter:Fear exists where knowledge is insuficent [24/10/14 01:23] Ary Endleg:or abudant [24/10/14 01:24] Aeoshattr:Exactly Ary's point [24/10/14 01:24] Aeoshattr:Sometimes understanding something makes it so much more horrifying [24/10/14 01:24] :Ary Endleg nods [24/10/14 01:25] Fire Starter:I have never encountered the situation you're refering to... Interesting [24/10/14 01:25] Fire Starter:Perhaps it depends on the point of view? [24/10/14 01:25] lashtal:I agree more with Aeo here... [24/10/14 01:26] Azkhael:I would, instead, simply say fear is partially inherent (of stimuli) , partially conditioned (of symbols) . [24/10/14 01:27] *Eara Meraia*:it can also be self induced [24/10/14 01:27] *Eara Meraia*:by your imagination [24/10/14 01:27] Azkhael:That is a form of conditioning, unless I have misunderstood your statement. [24/10/14 01:27] lashtal:Self-amplified... [24/10/14 01:27] Fire Starter:the inherent fear is only a survival instinct. The conditioned one is the one we should fear :D [24/10/14 01:27] Ary Endleg:Fear of fear is worst fear :p [24/10/14 01:28] lashtal:I agree the conditioned one is the most important to us... [24/10/14 01:28] Fire Starter:Presactly Ary :D [24/10/14 01:28] Fire Starter:And not quite [24/10/14 01:28] Azkhael:Our inherent fears might be conditioned in either direction, if not wholly so. [24/10/14 01:29] Azkhael:But we should ask ourselves whether particularly traumatic fears do not, in fact, share that rigidity. [24/10/14 01:31] lashtal:Those are the strictest teachers... [24/10/14 01:32] Azkhael:In a sense, they provoke a form of adaptions, regardless of its direction. But to what extent is said adaptation beneficiary, and to what extent can it be maleficent? [24/10/14 01:33] Azkhael:What is a positive adaptation and what is a negative adaptation, or, alternatively, what is a good fear and what is a bad fear, in common ideology, seems to be a very much socially defined notion. [24/10/14 01:33] Fire Starter: (gtg, almost 2 am here. Will there be any log of this somewhere?) [24/10/14 01:34] Ary Endleg:does labeling it with good or bad really matters? [24/10/14 01:34] lashtal:Positive... Negative... It's all about you. [24/10/14 01:35] *Eara Meraia*:I dont agree that fear provides adaptation. on the contrary fear is adaptation blocking feature, if you want. [24/10/14 01:35] Aeoshattr: (I'll also be going. Long day ahead tomorrow for me. Dissections dissections.) [24/10/14 01:35] lashtal: (I'll send a log to all those who participated, together with homework!) [24/10/14 01:36] AmberRune: (what about us who had meetings and papers to write during this?) [24/10/14 01:36] Fire Starter: ( *claps* Ah, homework! I always loved it. Later all :D) [24/10/14 01:36] Ary Endleg:I don't want homework! [24/10/14 01:36] AmberRune:You can do my homework, I give you half of it [24/10/14 01:36] Fire Starter: (Amber is fearing that she will miss smth ;D ) [24/10/14 01:37] Azkhael:@Ary: While there is room for personal subjectivity, is impossible to avoid some form of judgement as to good or bad in dealing with a fear. [24/10/14 01:37] AmberRune: (Amber had a freaking paper due 7 mins ago!) [24/10/14 01:38] Azkhael:@Eara: I could concur that it is not a necessarily useful adaptation, and that it could, hence, block an useful adaptation, hence hindering adaptation after a fashion. [24/10/14 01:38] Azkhael:But that is, itself, a provoked adaptation. [24/10/14 01:41] lashtal:"It's impossible to avoid some form of judgement as to good or bad in dealing with a fear." [24/10/14 01:41] lashtal:This is something I disagree with [24/10/14 01:41] Azkhael:Please, go on. [24/10/14 01:43] lashtal:Judgement itself implies unnecessary mental activity.. [24/10/14 01:44] *Eara Meraia*:this is very...eastern view of fear :) [24/10/14 01:44] lashtal:If you want to learn where's the origin of your fear, you have to stare in front of the mirror [24/10/14 01:44] lashtal:There's no good or bad, it's just you [24/10/14 01:44] lashtal:What is hard is to accept one-self. [24/10/14 01:45] :*Eara Meraia* nods at lashtals words holding her mirror tighter [24/10/14 01:45] Azkhael:Would that not be, in turn, a judgement by one's own internal standards? [24/10/14 01:46] lashtal:I don't see it that way... [24/10/14 01:47] *Eara Meraia*:isnt fear ones own internal phenomenon? [24/10/14 01:47] Azkhael:Help me, if you will; if one is to consider themselves at all, how can one do so but by a form of standard? [24/10/14 01:47] lashtal:Indeed, but it's still the judging part that concerns me... [24/10/14 01:48] lashtal:Self-analysis and acceptance do not pass necessarily through judgement [24/10/14 01:49] Azkhael:The later I can understand. [24/10/14 01:49] lashtal:If one maintains detachment [24/10/14 01:49] Azkhael:But the earlier has me somewhat puzzled. [24/10/14 01:50] Azkhael:Can something be analysed at all without speaking of "analysing by"? [24/10/14 01:50] lashtal:What exactly puzzled you? [24/10/14 01:51] lashtal:You mean, can we analyze without standards to refer to? [24/10/14 01:52] *Eara Meraia*:you can still use an internal norm of comparison, you can compare you to yourself [24/10/14 01:52] Azkhael:That is exactly it, yes lashtal. [24/10/14 01:53] lashtal:Well, Eara gave an answer... Another could be "to explore one's mind is traveling on uncharted lands" [24/10/14 01:55] Azkhael:If we start from the base assumption of which one's mind has something of static truth, then yes. [24/10/14 01:55] lashtal:The point being, you don't really need comparisons. We're all pioneers when we deal with our-selves [24/10/14 01:55] Azkhael:But if we do not make that arbitrary assumption (and I would note its opposite is also arbitrary) , then can we still speak of such? [24/10/14 01:57] *Eara Meraia*:no, this is the point. you make a comparison in a different time points. you can also define your own individual baseline if you want but comparing yourself to other individuals i this case makes no [24/10/14 01:58] *Eara Meraia*:sense because of vast variability of reaction [24/10/14 01:59] Azkhael:@Eara: by one's mind I mean one's own mind. [24/10/14 02:01] *Eara Meraia*:hat doesnt change my statement. still internal analysis is the most valid one in the case. you can gofor external observation but you have to be aware that it is filtered through other consciousness [24/10/14 02:01] lashtal:That's the point [24/10/14 02:01] Azkhael:Where did I speak of comparing oneself to another individual? [24/10/14 02:02] *Eara Meraia*:you didnt :) [24/10/14 02:03] Azkhael:"no, this is the point" has me confused then. [24/10/14 02:03] *Eara Meraia*:I did excluding invalid options [24/10/14 02:03] *Eara Meraia*:you can ignore that NO, I am just writing like I am talking :D [24/10/14 02:04] Azkhael:Hmm. [24/10/14 02:04] Azkhael:The problem is that, considering one's own thoughts alone (...) [24/10/14 02:05] Azkhael:We find, in logic, a potentially empty form that is, nevertheless, inescapable. [24/10/14 02:05] *Eara Meraia*:I know, and I tried to say that this is the most valid option you have [24/10/14 02:05] Azkhael:But we can, in fact, make one of two assumptions concerning that form. [24/10/14 02:05] Azkhael:We can call it transcendent, or we can call it flawed. [24/10/14 02:06] Azkhael:That is an arbitrary option, I will readily admit. [24/10/14 02:07] :Sir Blut sits [24/10/14 02:07] *Eara Meraia*:you will have to define a flaw. Because I dont think there is such thing in the matter of internal representation [24/10/14 02:07] lashtal:You're trying to apply logic and rationality... [24/10/14 02:08] Azkhael:Flawed, here, is the assumption of which it is not absolute. [24/10/14 02:09] lashtal:That may help if you want to banish fear, not much if you want to abandon to it and see which dark corners of yours come to light [24/10/14 02:10] Azkhael:I do not, myself, believe logic to be transcendent. But I do consider it momentarily inescapable. [24/10/14 02:11] Azkhael:Namely, while I can experience fear in a way not entire describable by logic, I cannot, nevertheless, think of fear without evoking a logical form. [24/10/14 02:12] *Eara Meraia*:logic is something that will always fail where the feelings and emotions start :) [24/10/14 02:13] AmberRune:oh cool! This is still going [24/10/14 02:13] Azkhael:It is not quite a matter of failure. [24/10/14 02:13] :*Eara Meraia* passes the talking stick to AmberRune [24/10/14 02:14] *Eara Meraia*: (need to go to sleep, getting really late for me.) [24/10/14 02:14] lashtal:Rest well Eara [24/10/14 02:14] Azkhael:Good night, Eara. [24/10/14 02:14] *Eara Meraia*:you can call it existance in different dimensions if you want [24/10/14 02:14] *Eara Meraia*:night people! [24/10/14 02:14] AmberRune: (g'night!) [24/10/14 02:17] lashtal:I must admit I am crashing as well... [24/10/14 02:17] Azkhael:If we abandon the logical pretension (and largely, we cannot) the immediately arising problem is that we cannot speak of at all. [24/10/14 02:17] Azkhael:Oh well, good night then, lashtal. [24/10/14 02:17] AmberRune:G'night sleepy peeps [24/10/14 02:17] lashtal:Perhaps we can just hint... [24/10/14 02:18] lashtal:Language is flawed, as is logic [24/10/14 02:18] Gljivoje:crude words, bad words, bad [24/10/14 02:18] :[Spell] They were waiting to be cows but forgot. Now they see the sky and remember [/spoiler]

I am confused. Are we supposed to decorate/edit all the scenes within the land we picked? Or just one? And what do you mean with the last quoted sentence?

Happy birthday! :)

Completely agreed. As for how to set said percentage, I tend to agree more with Burns than with Tal. From my own point of view, I would set 100% chance for the 1st freezer, 50% for the 2nd, 33% for the third and so on until 15% for the 6th freezer. Might be a little nerfed, but I hate how statless tournaments mean "if you have 6 freezers you win".

I think you still have time, this is what Rhaegar said about deadlines:

Happy birthday old man! Take it slowly! :P

Thank you Eara! This was fun!!!

Happy birthday!!!

All right folks, one month passed and I think it's time for some explanations... So, this is why I, lashtal, murdered Mur: 1. To fulfill the meaning/prophecy associated to my name from my signature: "[...] we get a value for LAShTAL of 371, which graphically represents the penetration of 7 (desire) into 31 (the negation of God) [...]" 2. To act against God, and in a relatively safe way I guess killing God in MD will have lesser consequences than killing God in RL, whatever this may mean 3. To experience divine punishment at least once in a lifetime (again, in a safer way :P ) 4. Because a testament needs death to be operative When speaking of MD titles, Mur said: "If a25 won't be ready this year these docs are last thing that remain from md, at least i'll make them worth remembering". I must admit this scared me, it sounded like a testament. This was very hard to guess, but it's probably when the seed was planted. 5 - To see if a God-slayer medal can be crafted and awarded. (Ary was the closest to this one!) As you can see, you nearly guessed 4 of them. In particular, I think this post by Azkhael was the closest. Azthor, on 22 Sept 2014 - 11:03 AM, said: I've read all your posts carefully, even the weird ones, and I'm quite sure this is the best entry. I will give however 3 more days for you to "protest": if you think your answer was better than Azkhael's and I may have missed/misread/misunderstood, please speak now. Otherwise, Azkhael is getting the rich prize of this quest: my ever-hungry Wind Dragon! :)) Thank you all for your participation, it was fun seeing all those conspiracy theories sprouting from everywhere. Your imagination is wilder than mine! Oh, and if you think my reasons were plain BS, be sure not to miss lashtal's stoning! Coming "soon"!

Still 3 points.

Rophs: Lash killed mur because he had to act in accordance with his nature Lash killed Mur to negate a god (god slayer) Lash killed Mur to break the limits Lash killed Mur to create a new path Lash killed Mur to bring balance Lash killed Mur to further explore the meaning of his exitstance Lash killed Mur to start a chain reaction Lash killed Mur to distract from a different plot Lash killed Mur to draw attention to Necrovion Lash killed Mur to bring knowledge of a different principle 3 points to both of you, although I am not negating a God.

That makes 2 points to both of you, although the second reason has been put in better words. 13 hours and 42 minutes left :))

That makes 3 points for you!

3 points again.. although... Ok, ok, 2 more days, then I will tell you.

Hmmm... Closer to 3 than to 2. :P

BZZZZ!!! Only 2 points this time.

I noticed that too...

That's 3 reasonably correct. What you specified in parenthesis is a hint... Sort of... ;)

2 points for you!

Still 3 points...

3 of them are correct. I considered this one correct so far, although it could be more precise.

Happy birthday dst!