lashtal

This thread is meant to contain the logs from the meetings at the Howling Gates. Please refrain from posting here. I would like to keep discussions in game rather than on forum. If you wish to share your ideas or discuss anything related to the subject, you're welcome to participate to next meetings (there will be 3 more at least, always at the Howling Gates, date and time will be announced on the Mood Panel). Lecture 1/4: [spoiler][24/10/14 00:28] lashtal:Greetings once again [24/10/14 00:28] :Lania nods at Lash [24/10/14 00:28] Azkhael:Or rather, don't, since lashtal has returned. [24/10/14 00:28] Azkhael:It is an article of questionable valuable, as any on the topic is, about water dowsing. [24/10/14 00:29] Azkhael:It does, however, enjoy a good range of references. [24/10/14 00:29] lashtal:Water dowsing? [24/10/14 00:29] Ary Endleg:shouldn't you show it to Amber then rather than me? [24/10/14 00:29] Ary Endleg:you two were talking about it :D [24/10/14 00:29] Azkhael:I would, but she has departed to lands far far away. [24/10/14 00:30] Ary Endleg:okay... so lets start [24/10/14 00:30] Azkhael:By which I mean she will probably be back within the hour. But I like being dramatic. [24/10/14 00:31] lashtal:I will wait 5 more minutes for others to come... [24/10/14 00:32] lashtal:After that I am honored to introduce to you a topic I've always been fascinated by. [24/10/14 00:33] lashtal:Ideally, this Fear class will be divided into 4 parts. [24/10/14 00:33] lashtal:Those who miss a part may ask for a transcription... [24/10/14 00:34] lashtal:But more than just lectures, I'd like these encounters to be discussions [24/10/14 00:35] lashtal:Today I will present the 1st part, the outer part. [24/10/14 00:36] lashtal:During next encounters, we will go beyond the surface, and consider fear from other points of view. [24/10/14 00:36] :Lania listens [24/10/14 00:37] lashtal:The 2nd part will be about the role of imagination... [24/10/14 00:37] lashtal:The 3rd one about the side-effects fear may trigger... [24/10/14 00:37] lashtal:While the last one will consider fear as a teacher. [24/10/14 00:40] lashtal:Oh... Was forgetting... [24/10/14 00:40] lashtal:You'll be given home-works. *grins* [24/10/14 00:40] :Lania swallows hard [24/10/14 00:40] :Ary Endleg sulks [24/10/14 00:41] :Aeoshattr grins from ear to ear [24/10/14 00:42] lashtal:All right, let's get started. [24/10/14 00:44] :lashtal takes out a dusty notebook and blows on it, raising a huge thick cloud.. [24/10/14 00:44] :Ary Endleg coughs [24/10/14 00:45] :[Spell] screams [24/10/14 00:45] lashtal:"Fear is a feeling closely tied to the most primitive parts of the brain. [24/10/14 00:46] *Eara Meraia*:and here she is. Thanks [24/10/14 00:46] *Eara Meraia*:oh! lecture!!! [24/10/14 00:46] :Aeoshattr looks up at the clouds for a brief moment [24/10/14 00:46] lashtal: *nods to Eara* Welcome. [24/10/14 00:46] :*Eara Meraia* smiles [24/10/14 00:47] :*Eara Meraia* passed Gold coin to Neno Veliki [24/10/14 00:47] lashtal:Mind the chairs.. they're quite noisy [24/10/14 00:47] :Ary Endleg mumbles about people being always late [24/10/14 00:47] *Eara Meraia*:now I can listen carefully [24/10/14 00:47] :lashtal clears his throat [24/10/14 00:47] lashtal:"Fear is a feeling closely tied to the most primitive parts of the brain. [24/10/14 00:47] lashtal:It is a basic survival mechanism, triggered by specific stimuli and least amenable to reason and consciousness. [24/10/14 00:48] lashtal:Interesting to notice, people and animals can develop specific fears as a result of learning, not only from personal history. [24/10/14 00:48] lashtal:This means fear can be taught, and the subject conditioned to fear even something never experienced. [24/10/14 00:49] lashtal:Although these techniques have their side effects, fear can be an effective tool to change attitudes. [24/10/14 00:50] lashtal:Nature and all the realms we've experienced are full of examples... [24/10/14 00:51] lashtal:The point being: sometimes a deterrent accomplishes more than an open fight... [24/10/14 00:52] lashtal:Take scarecrows. [24/10/14 00:53] lashtal:Their obvious purpose is to discourage birds from feeding on seedlings. [24/10/14 00:53] lashtal:The practices of a hanging a dead crow, or spreading nightshade seeds amidst the edible ones, work in the same direction... *grins* [24/10/14 00:53] lashtal:... But I sense there are questions... [24/10/14 00:53] :*Eara Meraia* chuckles [24/10/14 00:54] Ary Endleg:Should we be afraid since you killed Mur? [24/10/14 00:54] *Eara Meraia*: *coughs* I wonder what parts of brain do you consider primitive [24/10/14 00:55] lashtal: *chuckles at Ary's question* I honestly don't know... [24/10/14 00:55] : Mallos throws the dice and gets 1 [24/10/14 00:55] Fire Starter: *grins* That's a good question to a skull collector... [24/10/14 00:55] *Eara Meraia*: *pokes Ary* youre even afraid of water [24/10/14 00:55] Azkhael:Hmm, wouldn't you say that the fear derived from a scarecrow, for a crow, is inherent, rather than acquired, relating to its movement, rather than its appearance? [24/10/14 00:55] Eon:. [24/10/14 00:55] Ary Endleg: *pokes her back* so are you [24/10/14 00:56] lashtal: *to Eara* What I mean is: even the most primitive species experience fear.. For it's a vital mechanism [24/10/14 00:56] Fire Starter: *coughs* Stop teasing my Cloud please. [24/10/14 00:56] lashtal:Interesting question, Azkhael... [24/10/14 00:56] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis lashtal [24/10/14 00:57] Fire Starter:LOL [24/10/14 00:57] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis Azkhael [24/10/14 00:57] Fire Starter:Now this isn't evil. It's just expected... [24/10/14 00:57] Ary Endleg:yes! nice script [24/10/14 00:57] :[Spell] go back to nature eon [24/10/14 00:58] Fire Starter:Listen everyone - this is a 12 minutes break. [24/10/14 00:59] *Eara Meraia*:I agree, lashtal, though as a further comment - all brain structures are highly complex, so are the amygdalae :P [24/10/14 01:01] Fire Starter:Indeed, dear, but complex doesn't exclude primitive, and vise versa [24/10/14 01:01] *Eara Meraia*:yes, I understood, that lash meant primitive in evolutionary terms [24/10/14 01:02] Fire Starter:but we are going quite away from the subject. Do you want me to kill the chat again? [24/10/14 01:02] Fire Starter:I can't deny I am tempted, but still... [24/10/14 01:02] Aeoshattr:Wouldn't a creature need a nervous system in order to experience fear? Unless this has already been discussed, it would seem to me that "primitive" is not the word to be used [24/10/14 01:02] *Eara Meraia*:anyhow, along with the fear, I do hope we talk about erasing of fear tonight, highly interesting subject [24/10/14 01:03] Aeoshattr:What is the point of erasing fear? *chuckles* That would be boring and plain dangerous [24/10/14 01:03] Fire Starter:Oh, erasing the fear is simple. [24/10/14 01:03] *Eara Meraia*:nervous system is needed Aeo, primitive was applied to brain structures [24/10/14 01:03] Fire Starter:Not dangerous at all, Aeoshattr [24/10/14 01:03] : Eon throws the dice and gets 8 [24/10/14 01:03] Aeoshattr:Is it not? There is a reason why mortals fear. That is to keep them out of harm's way. [24/10/14 01:04] Aeoshattr:Fear not danger and you are bound to injure or kill yourself. Unless you're awfully lucky or skilled. [24/10/14 01:04] : *Nimrodel* was dragged by Eon [24/10/14 01:05] *Eara Meraia*:depends on the kind of fear, and the amount. [24/10/14 01:05] *Eara Meraia*:some kinds of fear are rather ridiculous, other useful [24/10/14 01:06] Aeoshattr:That is absolutely true. [24/10/14 01:06] Fire Starter:Intentionaly charging at dangerous situations isn't something, that fear drives. [24/10/14 01:06] Aeoshattr:But even the most ridiculous fear can be useful. [24/10/14 01:06] *Eara Meraia*:since fear can be conditioned, "mistakes" happen [24/10/14 01:06] :Aeoshattr grins [24/10/14 01:06] lashtal:Ehm [24/10/14 01:07] lashtal:That is the point, Aeo [24/10/14 01:07] Fire Starter:Fear is only a word. It exists only because we have given it a name [24/10/14 01:07] *Eara Meraia*:may be useful, but mostly it is limiting. Lets imagine you are scared of grasans shade. what this fear can give you [24/10/14 01:07] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis *Eara Meraia* [24/10/14 01:08] :[Spell] eugnotrevlis lashtal [24/10/14 01:08] Azkhael:mm• [24/10/14 01:08] Fire Starter:So, this happens on every lecture, lash? [24/10/14 01:08] Aeoshattr:I didn't claim it would be useful for the person that feels the fear, Eara *chuckles* [24/10/14 01:08] lashtal:Hopefully we'll end to consider even the stupidest fear as a valuable teacher [24/10/14 01:09] Azkhael:Necessarily so? [24/10/14 01:10] Aeoshattr:In fact... The more ridiculous a fear is, the more easily usable by others it becomes. [24/10/14 01:11] Ary Endleg:Eon is either out of casts or only has 4 more :D [24/10/14 01:11] Ary Endleg:Besides, I have no problem in reading silvertongue text [24/10/14 01:12] Aeoshattr: (^) [24/10/14 01:12] Fire Starter:Life begins where fear ends. It's that simple [24/10/14 01:13] Aeoshattr:I still believe life can also end where fear ends. You could consider it a gamble. Casting fear away will liberate you. One way or the other [24/10/14 01:15] Azkhael:Those are rather arbitrary statements. [24/10/14 01:16] Fire Starter:Presactly! [24/10/14 01:17] Aeoshattr:Picture fear of heights. You may defeat it and go on a dangerous rock climbing hike. It may liberate you, not feeling the fear and accomplishing something that you wouldn't have attempted before [24/10/14 01:17] Aeoshattr:But one small slip, one misguided step and you plummet to your death. A death that fear would have easily prevented. [24/10/14 01:18] Ary Endleg:rope! [24/10/14 01:18] Ary Endleg:also... you should have 8 spare lives.... [24/10/14 01:19] :Aeoshattr chuckles a bit [24/10/14 01:19] Fire Starter:Who said that exact wrong step isn't the most important one in your life that you should make? The step to your death. [24/10/14 01:19] Fire Starter:The step to your liberation [24/10/14 01:20] Azkhael:Feel free not to reply to the PMs once Silvertongue is over, lashtal. I am only using the time window. [24/10/14 01:20] Fire Starter:But I will be silent from now. [24/10/14 01:20] Ary Endleg:silver is over [24/10/14 01:20] lashtal:You're free to discuss more, I am enjoying it. I won't add more till next class. [24/10/14 01:20] Aeoshattr:Which is why I said it would liberate you one way or the other. Either in success or death. [24/10/14 01:21] Azkhael:Hmm, I thought it had been recast. [24/10/14 01:21] Aeoshattr: (Taken to the extreme, to illustrate the point) [24/10/14 01:21] Azkhael:Do nevermind that then. [24/10/14 01:21] lashtal:Just one thing. Banishing nightmares and fears absent-mindedly, like swapping the air, is just a way to look away. You may pretend your fears don't exist, but neither you learn nor you resolve them. [24/10/14 01:22] Fire Starter:It only depends wether we are ready to take that one step. Because usually when we are ready for smth, Life presents it to us [24/10/14 01:23] Fire Starter:Fear exists where knowledge is insuficent [24/10/14 01:23] Ary Endleg:or abudant [24/10/14 01:24] Aeoshattr:Exactly Ary's point [24/10/14 01:24] Aeoshattr:Sometimes understanding something makes it so much more horrifying [24/10/14 01:24] :Ary Endleg nods [24/10/14 01:25] Fire Starter:I have never encountered the situation you're refering to... Interesting [24/10/14 01:25] Fire Starter:Perhaps it depends on the point of view? [24/10/14 01:25] lashtal:I agree more with Aeo here... [24/10/14 01:26] Azkhael:I would, instead, simply say fear is partially inherent (of stimuli) , partially conditioned (of symbols) . [24/10/14 01:27] *Eara Meraia*:it can also be self induced [24/10/14 01:27] *Eara Meraia*:by your imagination [24/10/14 01:27] Azkhael:That is a form of conditioning, unless I have misunderstood your statement. [24/10/14 01:27] lashtal:Self-amplified... [24/10/14 01:27] Fire Starter:the inherent fear is only a survival instinct. The conditioned one is the one we should fear :D [24/10/14 01:27] Ary Endleg:Fear of fear is worst fear :p [24/10/14 01:28] lashtal:I agree the conditioned one is the most important to us... [24/10/14 01:28] Fire Starter:Presactly Ary :D [24/10/14 01:28] Fire Starter:And not quite [24/10/14 01:28] Azkhael:Our inherent fears might be conditioned in either direction, if not wholly so. [24/10/14 01:29] Azkhael:But we should ask ourselves whether particularly traumatic fears do not, in fact, share that rigidity. [24/10/14 01:31] lashtal:Those are the strictest teachers... [24/10/14 01:32] Azkhael:In a sense, they provoke a form of adaptions, regardless of its direction. But to what extent is said adaptation beneficiary, and to what extent can it be maleficent? [24/10/14 01:33] Azkhael:What is a positive adaptation and what is a negative adaptation, or, alternatively, what is a good fear and what is a bad fear, in common ideology, seems to be a very much socially defined notion. [24/10/14 01:33] Fire Starter: (gtg, almost 2 am here. Will there be any log of this somewhere?) [24/10/14 01:34] Ary Endleg:does labeling it with good or bad really matters? [24/10/14 01:34] lashtal:Positive... Negative... It's all about you. [24/10/14 01:35] *Eara Meraia*:I dont agree that fear provides adaptation. on the contrary fear is adaptation blocking feature, if you want. [24/10/14 01:35] Aeoshattr: (I'll also be going. Long day ahead tomorrow for me. Dissections dissections.) [24/10/14 01:35] lashtal: (I'll send a log to all those who participated, together with homework!) [24/10/14 01:36] AmberRune: (what about us who had meetings and papers to write during this?) [24/10/14 01:36] Fire Starter: ( *claps* Ah, homework! I always loved it. Later all :D) [24/10/14 01:36] Ary Endleg:I don't want homework! [24/10/14 01:36] AmberRune:You can do my homework, I give you half of it [24/10/14 01:36] Fire Starter: (Amber is fearing that she will miss smth ;D ) [24/10/14 01:37] Azkhael:@Ary: While there is room for personal subjectivity, is impossible to avoid some form of judgement as to good or bad in dealing with a fear. [24/10/14 01:37] AmberRune: (Amber had a freaking paper due 7 mins ago!) [24/10/14 01:38] Azkhael:@Eara: I could concur that it is not a necessarily useful adaptation, and that it could, hence, block an useful adaptation, hence hindering adaptation after a fashion. [24/10/14 01:38] Azkhael:But that is, itself, a provoked adaptation. [24/10/14 01:41] lashtal:"It's impossible to avoid some form of judgement as to good or bad in dealing with a fear." [24/10/14 01:41] lashtal:This is something I disagree with [24/10/14 01:41] Azkhael:Please, go on. [24/10/14 01:43] lashtal:Judgement itself implies unnecessary mental activity.. [24/10/14 01:44] *Eara Meraia*:this is very...eastern view of fear :) [24/10/14 01:44] lashtal:If you want to learn where's the origin of your fear, you have to stare in front of the mirror [24/10/14 01:44] lashtal:There's no good or bad, it's just you [24/10/14 01:44] lashtal:What is hard is to accept one-self. [24/10/14 01:45] :*Eara Meraia* nods at lashtals words holding her mirror tighter [24/10/14 01:45] Azkhael:Would that not be, in turn, a judgement by one's own internal standards? [24/10/14 01:46] lashtal:I don't see it that way... [24/10/14 01:47] *Eara Meraia*:isnt fear ones own internal phenomenon? [24/10/14 01:47] Azkhael:Help me, if you will; if one is to consider themselves at all, how can one do so but by a form of standard? [24/10/14 01:47] lashtal:Indeed, but it's still the judging part that concerns me... [24/10/14 01:48] lashtal:Self-analysis and acceptance do not pass necessarily through judgement [24/10/14 01:49] Azkhael:The later I can understand. [24/10/14 01:49] lashtal:If one maintains detachment [24/10/14 01:49] Azkhael:But the earlier has me somewhat puzzled. [24/10/14 01:50] Azkhael:Can something be analysed at all without speaking of "analysing by"? [24/10/14 01:50] lashtal:What exactly puzzled you? [24/10/14 01:51] lashtal:You mean, can we analyze without standards to refer to? [24/10/14 01:52] *Eara Meraia*:you can still use an internal norm of comparison, you can compare you to yourself [24/10/14 01:52] Azkhael:That is exactly it, yes lashtal. [24/10/14 01:53] lashtal:Well, Eara gave an answer... Another could be "to explore one's mind is traveling on uncharted lands" [24/10/14 01:55] Azkhael:If we start from the base assumption of which one's mind has something of static truth, then yes. [24/10/14 01:55] lashtal:The point being, you don't really need comparisons. We're all pioneers when we deal with our-selves [24/10/14 01:55] Azkhael:But if we do not make that arbitrary assumption (and I would note its opposite is also arbitrary) , then can we still speak of such? [24/10/14 01:57] *Eara Meraia*:no, this is the point. you make a comparison in a different time points. you can also define your own individual baseline if you want but comparing yourself to other individuals i this case makes no [24/10/14 01:58] *Eara Meraia*:sense because of vast variability of reaction [24/10/14 01:59] Azkhael:@Eara: by one's mind I mean one's own mind. [24/10/14 02:01] *Eara Meraia*:hat doesnt change my statement. still internal analysis is the most valid one in the case. you can gofor external observation but you have to be aware that it is filtered through other consciousness [24/10/14 02:01] lashtal:That's the point [24/10/14 02:01] Azkhael:Where did I speak of comparing oneself to another individual? [24/10/14 02:02] *Eara Meraia*:you didnt :) [24/10/14 02:03] Azkhael:"no, this is the point" has me confused then. [24/10/14 02:03] *Eara Meraia*:I did excluding invalid options [24/10/14 02:03] *Eara Meraia*:you can ignore that NO, I am just writing like I am talking :D [24/10/14 02:04] Azkhael:Hmm. [24/10/14 02:04] Azkhael:The problem is that, considering one's own thoughts alone (...) [24/10/14 02:05] Azkhael:We find, in logic, a potentially empty form that is, nevertheless, inescapable. [24/10/14 02:05] *Eara Meraia*:I know, and I tried to say that this is the most valid option you have [24/10/14 02:05] Azkhael:But we can, in fact, make one of two assumptions concerning that form. [24/10/14 02:05] Azkhael:We can call it transcendent, or we can call it flawed. [24/10/14 02:06] Azkhael:That is an arbitrary option, I will readily admit. [24/10/14 02:07] :Sir Blut sits [24/10/14 02:07] *Eara Meraia*:you will have to define a flaw. Because I dont think there is such thing in the matter of internal representation [24/10/14 02:07] lashtal:You're trying to apply logic and rationality... [24/10/14 02:08] Azkhael:Flawed, here, is the assumption of which it is not absolute. [24/10/14 02:09] lashtal:That may help if you want to banish fear, not much if you want to abandon to it and see which dark corners of yours come to light [24/10/14 02:10] Azkhael:I do not, myself, believe logic to be transcendent. But I do consider it momentarily inescapable. [24/10/14 02:11] Azkhael:Namely, while I can experience fear in a way not entire describable by logic, I cannot, nevertheless, think of fear without evoking a logical form. [24/10/14 02:12] *Eara Meraia*:logic is something that will always fail where the feelings and emotions start :) [24/10/14 02:13] AmberRune:oh cool! This is still going [24/10/14 02:13] Azkhael:It is not quite a matter of failure. [24/10/14 02:13] :*Eara Meraia* passes the talking stick to AmberRune [24/10/14 02:14] *Eara Meraia*: (need to go to sleep, getting really late for me.) [24/10/14 02:14] lashtal:Rest well Eara [24/10/14 02:14] Azkhael:Good night, Eara. [24/10/14 02:14] *Eara Meraia*:you can call it existance in different dimensions if you want [24/10/14 02:14] *Eara Meraia*:night people! [24/10/14 02:14] AmberRune: (g'night!) [24/10/14 02:17] lashtal:I must admit I am crashing as well... [24/10/14 02:17] Azkhael:If we abandon the logical pretension (and largely, we cannot) the immediately arising problem is that we cannot speak of at all. [24/10/14 02:17] Azkhael:Oh well, good night then, lashtal. [24/10/14 02:17] AmberRune:G'night sleepy peeps [24/10/14 02:17] lashtal:Perhaps we can just hint... [24/10/14 02:18] lashtal:Language is flawed, as is logic [24/10/14 02:18] Gljivoje:crude words, bad words, bad [24/10/14 02:18] :[Spell] They were waiting to be cows but forgot. Now they see the sky and remember [/spoiler]

I am confused. Are we supposed to decorate/edit all the scenes within the land we picked? Or just one? And what do you mean with the last quoted sentence?

Happy birthday! :)

Completely agreed. As for how to set said percentage, I tend to agree more with Burns than with Tal. From my own point of view, I would set 100% chance for the 1st freezer, 50% for the 2nd, 33% for the third and so on until 15% for the 6th freezer. Might be a little nerfed, but I hate how statless tournaments mean "if you have 6 freezers you win".

I think you still have time, this is what Rhaegar said about deadlines:

Happy birthday old man! Take it slowly! :P

Thank you Eara! This was fun!!!

Happy birthday!!!

All right folks, one month passed and I think it's time for some explanations... So, this is why I, lashtal, murdered Mur: 1. To fulfill the meaning/prophecy associated to my name from my signature: "[...] we get a value for LAShTAL of 371, which graphically represents the penetration of 7 (desire) into 31 (the negation of God) [...]" 2. To act against God, and in a relatively safe way I guess killing God in MD will have lesser consequences than killing God in RL, whatever this may mean 3. To experience divine punishment at least once in a lifetime (again, in a safer way :P ) 4. Because a testament needs death to be operative When speaking of MD titles, Mur said: "If a25 won't be ready this year these docs are last thing that remain from md, at least i'll make them worth remembering". I must admit this scared me, it sounded like a testament. This was very hard to guess, but it's probably when the seed was planted. 5 - To see if a God-slayer medal can be crafted and awarded. (Ary was the closest to this one!) As you can see, you nearly guessed 4 of them. In particular, I think this post by Azkhael was the closest. Azthor, on 22 Sept 2014 - 11:03 AM, said: I've read all your posts carefully, even the weird ones, and I'm quite sure this is the best entry. I will give however 3 more days for you to "protest": if you think your answer was better than Azkhael's and I may have missed/misread/misunderstood, please speak now. Otherwise, Azkhael is getting the rich prize of this quest: my ever-hungry Wind Dragon! :)) Thank you all for your participation, it was fun seeing all those conspiracy theories sprouting from everywhere. Your imagination is wilder than mine! Oh, and if you think my reasons were plain BS, be sure not to miss lashtal's stoning! Coming "soon"!

Still 3 points.

Rophs: Lash killed mur because he had to act in accordance with his nature Lash killed Mur to negate a god (god slayer) Lash killed Mur to break the limits Lash killed Mur to create a new path Lash killed Mur to bring balance Lash killed Mur to further explore the meaning of his exitstance Lash killed Mur to start a chain reaction Lash killed Mur to distract from a different plot Lash killed Mur to draw attention to Necrovion Lash killed Mur to bring knowledge of a different principle 3 points to both of you, although I am not negating a God.

That makes 2 points to both of you, although the second reason has been put in better words. 13 hours and 42 minutes left :))

That makes 3 points for you!

3 points again.. although... Ok, ok, 2 more days, then I will tell you.

Hmmm... Closer to 3 than to 2. :P

BZZZZ!!! Only 2 points this time.

I noticed that too...

That's 3 reasonably correct. What you specified in parenthesis is a hint... Sort of... ;)

2 points for you!

Still 3 points...

3 of them are correct. I considered this one correct so far, although it could be more precise.

Happy birthday dst!

2 are correct, 2 points for dst. 3 of them are correct, that makes 3 points, but Azkhael got them faster.

3 of these are correct, and you managed to best Hiria in precision. If nobody does better, Azkhael wins the quest!

2 of these are correct. 2 of these are correct, 1 is almost correct. That makes almost 3 points :P This is correct, it's the reason I revealed.