To continue the discussion from here since phantasm wants to hide the dirt under the rug.
[url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/11474-the-grail/"]http://magicduel.inv...1474-the-grail/[/url]

Last post from phantasm in that topic:

[quote]sorry DST, but facts remain the same. Duxie won the quest, through much hard effort and work. You tried to win the quest the first day it became active with no work. Quest was mine, and run MY way. You are just upset because YOUR way didn't work, due to there were more variables in the quest. All part of a quest don't have to be listed, especially ones that reveal spoilers, like saying you have to "convince the thief" before there was even known to eb a "thief". You could not have even know the grail was not at the site, because you never visited it. The first person to visit it was after all these "pm evidence" you have. If you don't like it, sorry you don't always get your way. This matter is closed, as the winner has been announced, and the quest has ended. You were never disqualified, you simply didn't complete the quest. If you have such an issue with it you are more then welcome to not compete in my "unfair" quests.[/quote]

Let's start with this:
[quote]you are more then welcome to not compete in my "unfair" quests[/quote]
I never said your quest was not fair. I said YOU are not fair. That's a huge difference.

[quote]Quest was mine, and run MY way.[/quote]
So now I have to guessyour thoughts? Because again, you stated NOWHERE that you wish the quest to be solved in a certain way.

[quote]You are just upset because YOUR way didn't work,[/quote]
No, I am upset that you are unfair and you try to find loopwholes to avoid admitting I solved your quest in the first day (as you have said).


I said I do not want the WP or the gold. I still don't want them. But I want that nobody gets them either. I was the first one that found samon and the grail. Not duxie. Not anyone else.

LE: I just saw that you already gave the wp. This is your second ofence of giving WPs without a good reason.
First one is giving WP as a gift to mcvities some years ago (in case you have forgotten).

Edited February 24, 201214 yr by dst

If you knew 100% that samon was the one who had the trophy for four weeks, why didn't you actually go and gather evidence or whatever? At least then you could say you actually put some [b]effort[/b] into solving the quest. If I spend time either making or solving a quest and you just come along and bypass the whole thing, that's simply ridiculous. It ruins the whole point of quests, which is to have fun, challenge people and offer rewards by doing so. The only reason you care about this, and you said it yourself, is because you want revenge of some sort for Phantasm pointing out that SoS had less than three members. You clearly didn't put in as much effort as duxie, or anyone else who participated, did, so what makes you think you deserve to win?

The journey is more important than the destination.

dst, give it up already.

If you have a problem with him, sue him.

If you have proof(which I doubt you do) let the Council know of his "abuse". You always try to get the community to hang someone before a trial, but it never works.

Edited February 29, 201214 yr by Chewett
removed last two lines

[cquote]We are currently looking into the Grail Quest and the treatment of it's participants. We appeal for people to send any information they feel is relevant to [email="contact@magicduel.com"][council][/email] [/cquote]

Edited March 7, 201214 yr by Fire Starter
please dont just show emails on the forum, it attracts spammers...

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]ok, the fun part: despite all the trying to ignore this offence, i still was made (by the councils PM) to take a part in this... i was asked to "[color=#000000][i]forward screen shots of any PMs you sent or received in relation to this quest[/i]". since there were tons of PM's related to this quest (100+ from my side, the same in replies) i removed them all at once i finished the quest - i still wanted to be able to use my mailbox and i didn't expect all this drama. i would be really grateful to everyone who could respond to this and confirm (or deny) his participation in my Grail investigation. i'm putting here a list of people i had in my notes (which is still saved [/color][color=#000000]fortunately[/color][color=#000000]). please, respond with numbers if you remember: how much times i asked you for something connected to the grail, how much times you answered, and if you still have our PM's - post them too, there should be no secrets i guess. if you feel you're in the list by my mistake - i also must ask you to deny your participation. also, this list is far from full. i ask people not in the list, but who took the part in PM session or chat directly - respond here too. btw, not all PM's where talking about the Grail directly. PM's about [b]huge persons[/b], about [b]your size[/b], about [b]gray silk wire[/b], about some [b]item from deep tribunal[/b], about [b]specific item in your inventory[/b], are also from the same investigation.[/color] [color=#000000]thanks in advance! [/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif][color=#000000]and the list of the people i still have in my notes:[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Arkken,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Orbinatus Numedorus,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]samon,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Neno Veliki,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Atrumist,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]joshdragon,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Ledah,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]xcercses,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]ERO,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Boterham,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Nightbane Strongarm,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Raven,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Sephirah Caelum,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]No One,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Amoran K Kol,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Darigan,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]*dst*,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Zleiphneir,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]*Clock Master*,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]phantasm,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]bloodelvenwizard,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Marvolo,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Peace,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Laphers,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]*Shemhazaj*,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Handy Pockets,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Rex Umbrae Killer,[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Princ Rhaegar[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]and the sad part: don't get me wrong, i understand when a single person, or some team acts in the game not as expected by majority. we act as we feel it's best for us - this is a game and we want to have fun, but... but tell me, what one should think about the council of the game which ignores the opinion of the total interested majority and starts a witch hunt on a request of one single person without any (none, zip) evidences? yet at the same time finds no serious reason to do anything about another topic where issue is pointed again - by the total majority interesants with some evidences or at least witnesses...[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]P.S. just figured out that dst already sort of achieved her purpose: "to ruin the quest", heh.[/font][/size]

Edited March 7, 201214 yr by duxie

[quote name='Seigheart' timestamp='1330353391' post='105306']
If you have proof(which I doubt you do) let the Council know of his "abuse". You always try to get the community to hang someone before a trial, but it never works.
[/quote]

im assuming she has some proof... i doubt council would start anything without proof, mainly because they denied sieg's sales abuse and asked for more info. otherwise its a complete double standards

as for your list, LOL thats a lot of people, Wouldnt want to be the person tasked with sorting out all that rubbish...

[color=#808080][i]I got 2 such PMs one was about specific item[/i][/color]

[quote] [i]*sent 2 weeks and 1 day ago[/i] [url="http://magicduel.com/dlg/dlg.messagelist.php?unread=1444463"]Read later[/url]
question
hey, hey

hm, mhm... i'll be straight to you:
do you have the Grail?! *giggles*
[i][color=#808080][rest of the PM was about different matter][/color][/i]
[/quote]

[quote]
[i]*sent 1 week and 6 days ago[/i]
the Grail
hey, Shem

sorry, haven't removed you from my suspect list yet... not much left here, need to value each of you, heh... taking another guess... to be the Grail the item in your inventory must be extraordinary. the only one i see and haven't seen nothing in common in other inventories is Chase Khalazdad stone - is it the Grail? sorry if that's another stupid question [/quote]

[quote]
[b]*From: duxie (ID:208462)[/b]
[i]*sent 2 weeks and 1 day ago[/i] Bell of Marind
hello, Princ Rhaegar,

it might look as a total nonsense to you, but i still must ask: could it be that the Grail in concealed under your Bell of Marind? if not, could you tell me what is this item? would really appreciate your answer
[/quote]

Edited March 7, 201214 yr by Rhaegar Targaryen

[quote]
*From: duxie (ID:208462)
*sent 2 weeks and 20 hours ago Read later
question
hello, Z,

sorry if my question will look stupid, but i need to ask you if the Grail is concealed by your Obsidian Disk?



*From: duxie (ID:208462)
*sent 1 week and 6 days ago Read later
RE:RE:question
mhm, by the form of your answer i assume you don't have anything to do with the Phantasm's quest. imagine what would be otherwise - i would spam you asking about each of your items, and you have quite a bunch of them!

thank you for your answer

[/quote]


(assuming you dont mind us putting the messages on the public forum Duxie?)

Z

Edited March 7, 201214 yr by (Zl-eye-f)-nea

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif][quote name='(Zl-eye-f)-nea' timestamp='1331142574' post='106021']
(assuming you dont mind us putting the messages on the public forum Duxie?)

Z
[/quote][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]no no, please. that's the idea, put everything you have - i have nothing to hide [/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]also (to everyone) if you can, please post your answers to me. just skip the keywords you want to keep in secret. or at least state that you answered and to which PM.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]i just want the council to have a clue (some numbers) why i haven't saved all those PM's, and to see at least the small part of the job i had to do to win the quest.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]i guess i need to prove that i actually have been doing "something" for that month+, not just waiting for the wishpoint to be handed out.[/font][/size]

Edited March 7, 201214 yr by duxie

*From: duxie (ID:208462)
[i]*sent 2 weeks and 17 hours ago[/i]
the Grail
hello,

sorry if my question will look stupid to you, but i need to ask if the Grail is concealed by your "Sardonyx Stone"? *smiles*

[b]My response has been deleted but I had responded negatively[/b]

*From: duxie (ID:208462)
[i]*sent 2 weeks and 17 hours ago[/i]
RE:RE:the Grail
mhm, thank you for the answer

Edited March 8, 201214 yr by Laphers

soooo....even though a trial hasn't even been requested the council has intervened with a quest? Quests are designed by the people who create them and run them. While others who have "official" roles of public are swept under the table with WAY more public backing of their ideals. Oh I forgot...the council doesn't care about what the masses think, instead about what one whiny woman things who lost her way of cheating and sneaking to try and win a quest that was meant for the pleasure and challenge of the community *rolls eyes* Yah we see where the council's importance is

Funny that dst happens to be the closest thing we've got to a police officer, when she just so happens to be personally involved in more than enough of the scandals which take place.

She is only going to the Council now as a last resort because nobody would side with her when she was complaining on the forum. This is supported by the fact that she did not provide her evidence to the public. If it is evidence that is at all convincing, perhaps some people would take her side, but no, she has to take it to the Council and keep it private.

If the Council rules in dst's favour, it will only show their ultimate disregard for the community. The fact is that quests are community projects. They are created by the community, judged by the community and participated in by the community. If duxie's, as well as the other participant's, month(s) of effort are worth less to them than the make believe social justice of one person, then they are raving mad, and not in a "Mur-ish wisdom" kind of way. The very fact that this case has been accepted only tells me that the court is to be used for social idea-proving rather than real justice. Granos used it to set a precedent ("Special Factor: Considers he did it on purpose to set an example"), dst and Fenrir used it to have Mur solve their personal problems for them ("People fight, a lot, and putting an official punishment on personal argues between people will have a bad outcome on the long run."), and now dst wants to continue the tradition by using the court to get back at phantasm for having the nerve to point out an old announcement. I've had quite enough of it.

Since this subject seems to be of higher importane, I will add my name to the list posted by duxie. He did ask me about the grail, in a similar way he did with others. I answered an elliptic answer which was discouraging enough for him not to insist.

I hope the world will be safer after this case is closed.

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]once again, big thanks to everyone who took their time to support me in this issue and helped me to win this quest.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]council is satisfied with your response to this topic and doesn't require any more evidence from people i've PM'ed through the quest.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]they are still awaiting a response from samon and any further evidence people want to provide before making a statement.[/font][/size]

Odd, my mail must've gotten lost. Just resend it, now let's hope this will be over quickly.

[cquote]
We have asked for this to be looked into because the PM Dst received
from Samon seemed out of character and deliberately evasive in a way
which would stop someone from doing necessary further investigation. We
have had no evidence to demonstrate how Samon treated participants of
this quest fairly as his responses to PMs no longer exist. From the
evidence we have seen it seems like dst was treated unfairly by
seemingly out of character responses stating he had not looked into the
quest. We consider it unreasonable to expect someone to continue
following this line of inquiry from the responses we have seen.


We are asking one final time for anyone to submit relevant evidence to
show fair treatment of participants of the quest. A judgement will be
given in 7 days.
[/cquote]

[quote name='AmberRune' timestamp='1334024395' post='108660']
We have had no evidence to demonstrate how Samon treated participants of this quest fairly as his responses to PMs no longer exist.
[/quote]
As a note to anyone who may have evidence: This quote may be a bit of a lie. Old PMs can be retrieved by deleting new ones, so unless Samon's communication with others was intentionally deleted by himself or the recipient, then they do exist and may possibly be retrieved.

It was my task to prevent anyone from finding the grail, at any costs. My replies were never intended to be out of character, they were mend along the lines of 'I haven't had time to participate in the quest.'

I haven't gone any easier on Duxie. He had nearly enough evidence to proof I had the grail the first time we spoke, but still it took him a month after that to find the final pieces of irrefutable evidence I had the grail and what the grail was.

If DST really cared for winning the quest she would've looked into it some more and be able to find the same evidence Duxie found. but rather than that she decided to give up on winning and wait till after the quest to sue us. DST didn't win the because she was apparently unable (or unwilling) to adapt to my unwillingness to give up the grail to anyone who told me I had it.

P.S. Duxie deleted all PMs regarding the quest. If wanted I could try to rewrite the PMs I send him, but I can't promise them to be exact copies. Even though I'll try to keep as close to the originals as possible.

Edited April 10, 201214 yr by samon

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif] yet another ribaldry in official form... [/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]how can you or dst claim that she was not treated fairly or [u]inadequately[/u] to others if neither you, nor dst have any evidence proving that?[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]and no, i do not need to prove anything which you want me to force. that's the duty of an accuser, otherwise it's a lack of evidence, it's just a grievance at the best.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]her evidence is only a fact that she was treated this way, but it doesn't show that others were treated differently (which in fact they were not).[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]it doesn't prove that the quest was not fair, not equal to everyone, which is her main accusation without [u]any[/u] evidence.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]actually [u]all this[/u] is her quest, not the one i got rewarded for. for this one she has her fun and reward already.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]for "The Grail" one she was simply too lazy or not motivated enough. that's the only not equal thing between her and other participants.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]in fact i do not care already, you can take that WP and feel happy with another victory, as this is not my battle anymore.[/font][/size]
[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]this trial and few other public stuff i saw in my MD experience is the fact, that MD community is ruled for few, not for the total majority, and i have too much of this "democracy" in my RL to handle one more at my free time.[/font][/size]

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]have fun [/font][/size]

Duxie, I never accused you of anything. But it seems you find a strange pleasure in posing as a victim. Oh well...everyone with his own "guilty" pleasures. I am not the one to deny you that.
Samon: this is new....you should check your other responses cause you're starting to forget what you have said before.

[size=3][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]i never said you accuse me, and i do not feel as a victim. i just feel bad when i see double standards, and i've seen enough. that's the short version of my amusement.[/font][/size]

[quote name='AmberRune' timestamp='1334024395' post='108660']
[cquote]
We have asked for this to be looked into because the PM Dst received
from Samon seemed out of character and deliberately evasive in a way
which would stop someone from doing necessary further investigation. We
have had no evidence to demonstrate how Samon treated participants of
this quest fairly as his responses to PMs no longer exist. From the
evidence we have seen it seems like dst was treated unfairly by
seemingly out of character responses stating he had not looked into the
quest. We consider it unreasonable to expect someone to continue
following this line of inquiry from the responses we have seen.


We are asking one final time for anyone to submit relevant evidence to
show fair treatment of participants of the quest. A judgement will be
given in 7 days.
[/cquote]
[/quote]

Ok lets review.....
DST says she was "wronged" in my quest and fairly won it by revealing the grail and who had it. After some pretty obvious proof it has now changed to the fact that Samon worded his message wrong to DST. Because of this therefore the quest should be completely abandoned because she felt slighted from 'false' information. DST of course is our "Inquisitor" set by the council I would imagine or whatever "higher" power did as much. Also one of the most reported offenders of "harrasement" by many people in the community at many times.....

THE highest Wish Point person on the list of course is DST. Upset because she tried to cheat to win, was caught due to the scripting on the quest cilckies that she didn't even complete the quest. Now in her own words declare she wants nothing, only that Duxie's Wishpoint be removed. That others who did complete the quest and tried very hard to be stripped of their reward. All of this because DST wasn't told perfectly clear about something? This is as much BS as the "contract" announcement. Now I need a lawyer to read over all my contracts before I post them onto the game?

So....a quest and the quest maker are being put on trial because a outside person involved in the quest, and was to ROLEPLAY hiding the fact he was a thief...mislead DST and caused her to FAIL at the quest. Contracts will now be able to be abused as much as the "vagueness" of them allows by the people agreeing to the contract, instead of the contractor. Anyone else besides me seeing this?

All you do is yap yap yap phantasm but you bring no decent proof. You were againt me from the very beginning. But I never thought you'd sink so low as to actually PREVENT me from winning the quest by such low methods. You got what you've deserved.

[quote name='AmberRune' timestamp='1334024395' post='108660']
[cquote]
We
have had no evidence to demonstrate how Samon treated participants of
this quest fairly as his responses to PMs no longer exist. From the
evidence we have seen it seems like dst was treated unfairly by
seemingly out of character responses stating he had not looked into the
quest.
[/cquote]
[/quote]

Are the concil really expecting to be fair judging between two sides and only considering the evidence of one side valid?

Following this reasoning should I start to sue all the people that answered in a way that in the past I almost think in not only to give up to continue a quest but even to not participate in none that all? If yes I really have, at least, one name in mind.

@Phan: if you are going to sink, we will drown to the bottom.