CITIZENSHIP by Crash Test Dummy

[Leixer]

[color=#000000]Player Voted Citizenship[/color]

[color=#000000]The final piece of code for player voted citizenship has been written and implemented.[/color]

[color=#000000]Currently there is one location per land in their capital that you can create and view votes(GG's is the fort)[/color]

[color=#000000]You can create two types of vote, one to join a land and one to kick someone from the land. You need to be a citizen of the land to kick members from the land.[/color]

[color=#000000]Votes will be started at 12:00 each day and will end at this time also. Votes last 7 days at which point it is decided who has won or lost the vote. If you lose the vote you will have to wait time before you can make another vote.[/color]

[color=#000000]Winning the vote to remove someone removes them from their land and alliance or if you win the vote to get invited to the land you get citizenship.[/color]

[color=#000000]You need a certain % of the total landscore of a land to win a vote, this is a different value for kicking or being invited to the land.[/color]

[color=#000000]This feature is quite extensive, and likely has some bugs. Rewards will be given to those who send me details of any bugs depending on the importance of the bug. If people lose citizenship or have issues with this due to bugs you should contact me at[/color][color=#2A2A2A][size=3][bugs][/size][/color]

[color=#000000]Comments can go here, i will reply to them ingame and via email.[/color]



[color=#000000]by:[/color][color=#2A2A2A][size=3][bugs][/size][/color]

Edited November 20, 2012 by Burns
addresses altered

[lashtal]

My sister asked this question:

[color=#7e5132][b]laylah[/b][/color][b]: [/b]Does only the current land loyalty count? I mean, if I was in Loreroot for 100 days and now I'm in Golemus, can I still influence Loreroot's polls?

[color=#bc9434][b]Crash Test Dummy[/b][/color][b]: [/b]You can only vote for the land you are currently in.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Grido
removing playername links

[Valldore Nal]

A couple more questions :

[b]Valldore Nal:[/b] Yes, but in order to define if a vote was successful or not, the sum of land loyalty of those who voted in favor of the vote has to reach the percentage of the land score ?

[b]Crash Test Dummy:[/b] (PEERCENTAGE NEEDED ) * (TOTAL ACTIVE LANDSCORE - LANDSCORE OF THOSE ABSTAINING) <= (POSITIVE LANDSCORE - NEGATIVE LANDSCORE)


[b]Crash Test Dummy:[/b] which means, if total landscore minus abstaining landscore multiplied with the percentage needed for the vote is less than postive - negative, you win the vote


[b]Crash Test Dummy:[/b] you have three voting options, positive, negative abstain

[b]Crash Test Dummy:[/b] by not voting, you say you dont care, and thats a point against the person who made the vote

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Valldore Nal:[/b] Can others initiate a vote for us ? (only for the joining a land purpose , unfortunately i can't check it myself )

[b]Crash Test Dummy:[/b] no

[b]Crash Test Dummy:[/b] you must initiate a vote to join a land yourself

[Sunfire]

Sunfire: CTD, what about the neutral lands? will you be able to get citizenship there without joining an ally?
Crash Test Dummy: Currently neutral lands citizenship will only be granted by council/special request/good work

Crash Test Dummy: anyone using an illusion cannot now access the voting page

Edited November 17, 2012 by Grido
removing playername links

[Burns]

[b]If i am part of a land and wish to make a poll in another one, for example to join a different land or have someone kicked from there, can i put such a vote up?[/b]

Crash Test Dummy: indeed
Crash Test Dummy: but
Crash Test Dummy: only to ask to join the land
Crash Test Dummy: the system doesnt prevent you attemping to join another, but you will lose your citizenship and alliance if you suceed in gaining access to the other land



[b]But is it possible to see who started the vote for a kick from an alliance? (if so, I'd be interested to hear the reasoning why)[/b]

Crash Test Dummy: not currently
Crash Test Dummy: for now, it wont be shown
Crash Test Dummy: but for a kick to work, they will surely have to get people to vote for the kick, since 60% is a high number


[b]Is there a difference between actively clicking abstain and not voting at all?[/b]

Crash Test Dummy: yes
Crash Test Dummy: see the formulae
Crash Test Dummy: but, for an example
Crash Test Dummy: positve: 100, negative 20, total landscore 200
Crash Test Dummy: in total your score is 80
Orvid: I would suspect that is to prevent those who have left the realm from effecting the outcome?
Crash Test Dummy: (100 - 20) = 80
Crash Test Dummy: here this would be 40% approval rate
Crash Test Dummy: however if you were kicking someone, this would fail
Crash Test Dummy: if someone abstained with 50 power
Crash Test Dummy: your percentage is actually (80 / 150)
Crash Test Dummy: which is 53% approval
Crash Test Dummy: meaning that abstaining completely removes your influence
Crash Test Dummy: wheras not voting is a "minor" negaative
Crash Test Dummy: whereas voting against is a major negative
Crash Test Dummy: the not voting being negative essentially translates to "you didnt bother to get this person involve to vote"
Crash Test Dummy: post it please

i'm still trying to grasp it, i must say.
Crash Test Dummy: say you have 1000 total landscore
*Burns*: In your example, with active score 200 and 80 not voting...
Crash Test Dummy: you therefore need 400 for approval, yes?
Crash Test Dummy: at a rate of 40%
*Burns*: I'd effectively create a better outcome by abstaining than with not voting, right?
Crash Test Dummy: indeed
Orvid: That means that eventually people who have left MD will need to be removed from the lands, correct?
*Burns*: active landscore, orvid, i take it people inactive for the whole week count not at all?
Crash Test Dummy: indeed
Crash Test Dummy: burns


[b]Will people know if they've been put forward to be kicked o.o ?[/b]

*Burns*: right, that's a good question.
Crash Test Dummy: The town crier will state there is a vote going on in the land that will end on day X
Crash Test Dummy: if you click the information you will be able to see who is being voted on
Crash Test Dummy: the person will not be informed as they should care about what votes are going on in their land
Crash Test Dummy: its a week, so its not a quick event
Seeker white: o.o I see I see
Crash Test Dummy: again, these are just how it currently works, feel free to suggest ways to improve it
Crash Test Dummy: i would suggest you pay attention to votes going on in the land
Crash Test Dummy: spoiler: it might be important for you to vote all the time
Crash Test Dummy: or at least, vote in every one, rather than not bothering and ignoring it


[b]Orvid: Would the thing that your alluding to there have any effect on those with no homeland, and thus, nothing to vote on?
*Burns*: So, example, if laylah dislikes me and puts me up for a kick vote, i can see that i have been put up for a kick vote and actively gather people to not kick me, but obviously not vote in favor of mysel
*Burns*: f?[/b]
Crash Test Dummy: yes orvid
Crash Test Dummy: you can get people to vote against the kick vote, and you can vote against it also
Crash Test Dummy: i would expect you to work against someone trying to kick you
Crash Test Dummy: @orvid: it would be souly affect land related things, no additional bonuses for non allied people
Crash Test Dummy: not landed people


[b]Does a kick vote lock you out from a land for a while?[/b]

*Burns*: Example, if somebody kicks Grido, i invite him back into the ally, and don't care what the rest of the land thinks.
*Burns*: Politically not smart, granted, but technically destroys the purpose
Crash Test Dummy: Currently it blocks you from applying to the land, but doesnt stop you entering an alliance
Crash Test Dummy: if there is a point where issues like that occur i might consider adding that in, but i want to see something like that occur first


[b]is there a time limit to the block?[/b]

Crash Test Dummy: I couldnt imagine a situtaion where 60+% of a land said kick
Crash Test Dummy: 1 month i believe
Crash Test Dummy: for all failed votes/kicked out votes


[b]I'm rather suprised nobody asked if the player kicked still loses 50% of loyalty and such things[/b]

Crash Test Dummy: not currently
Crash Test Dummy: again, if a case arises where someone abuses the system to utilize this fact, i would change it
Crash Test Dummy: the idea is not to lock everything down, and let people have some freedom

Edited November 17, 2012 by Burns

[Burns]

Actually more of a bug, but matches here:

[quote]
Vote to remove | AgmaluchXII to your land. Ends day 329
[/quote]

That one should read remove from, i think. Remove to seems wrong.

Clarification: I'm talking about the town crier leaflet, the vote page itself is fine.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Burns

[BFH]

GG bots, which stupidly were given citizenship, should be removed from total of land score required. Otherwise system wont ever work on gg since we won't ever reach 60%.

[Burns]

They don't count to landscore, apparently. So, we'll probably successfully remove the first of them in a few days, if you vote for it

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Leixer' timestamp='1353172091' post='125661']
[color=#000000]This feature is quite extensive, and likely has some bugs. Rewards will be given to those who send me details of any bugs depending on the importance of the bug. If people lose citizenship or have issues with this due to bugs you should contact me at[/color][color=#2A2A2A][size=3][url="http://www.google.com/recaptcha/mailhide/d?k=01ILtqSnTaJ2O1sPbKXjNZeQ==&c=8EZ60gSnhtV3HOLkW242euSKUwLs_WRxzOR8uuv5HQs="]Bugs/Crash Test Dummy Contact Address[/url][/size][/color]

[color=#000000]Comments can go here, i will reply to them ingame and via email.[/color]
[/quote]

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13278-illusion-citizenship-problem/

[Seigheart]

[quote]GG bots are not considered as it only considers people who have logged in, in the last 7 days. There are currently 17 members in GG, none of which are bots.[/quote]

[bugs]

Edited November 25, 2012 by Seigheart

[Grido]

Says /21 players on the vote screen....

Aside from that bit about them not logging in (figured sys would count them as logged in, evidently not), they don't have any land loyalty to count.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Grido

[Fang Archbane]

Question. If someone joined a land via joining a guild, and then left that guild, would they still be part of said land?

[Mallos]

No, guilds/alliances are separate from plain citizenship.

[Eagle Eye]

[quote name='Fang Archbane' timestamp='1353901881' post='126404']
Question. If someone joined a land via joining a guild, and then left that guild, would they still be part of said land?
[/quote]
Long time ago but for now citizenship is being process and you are free to choose again the land

[Seigheart]

Do the Lands of the East have a voting?

[Mallos]

No the East doesn't yet, not sure if bugs is going to work on it either.

[Udgard]

-If someone who is about to get kicked enters an illusion just before the end of the vote, then comes out of illusion afterwards, will they be able to circumvent being kicked (seems like a potential loophole here)?

-Is the land loyalty of the person being voted for a kick accounted for in the formula? (Can the voted vote on his sentence as well?)

[No one]

@udgard: there are very few that have illusions for a purpose.
Yes, when one is kicked from a land by any means while in illusion they should get back into the land (according to rules that might change) when the illusion ends.

From my point of view, let this be like this. Who can use it and know how to use it ... it is his right to use it. The illusions have their bad counter part and those using them are assuming the risks.

Who used it the other way (http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13278-illusion-citizenship-problem/) then it is their fault. This issue about illusion's capability is not new and it is not that old.
Keep it like this.

[Esmaralda]

Well, if person X has at least 2 casts of illusion, that guarantees that X can never be kicked out of a land (since it takes a week for a vote), and spells reset every two weeks. That seems unbalanced to me.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Esmaralda

[DARK DEMON]

[quote name='Esmaralda' timestamp='1353948102' post='126496']
Well, if person X has at least 2 casts of illusion, that guarantees that X can never be kicked out of a land (since it takes a week for a vote), and spells reset every two weeks. That seems unbalanced to me.
[/quote]

Which is why I've asked for it to be fixed in my illusion thread
([url="http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13278-illusion-citizenship-problem/"]http://magicduel.inv...enship-problem/[/url])

But dst and No One do not agree, for some reason. I'm even willing to set up a poll for this!

Edited November 26, 2012 by DARK DEMON

[Seigheart]

[quote][color=#2A2A2A][size=3]Council do not consider this a bug and therefore i am unallowed to change how illusions influence citizenship even though it is clear they can be abused to stop someone joining a land or kicking someone. Dark has been made a citizen of Loreroot again.[/size][/color]
[/quote][bugs]

[Udgard]

Thanks for the confirmation. I am personally indifferent on whether such thing is allowed or not, but just figured those making the rules might want to take a look at that just in case they consider it a loophole. If council is fine with the current situation, then I suppose all is good.

[Miq]

Somewhy i can't add any of the tiny men to be voted on. it just says: "Cannot find player X" although i can clearly see that he is GG citizen and online at the very moment (in this example azkaban)

[Mallos]

You need to give the full name -

| azkaban

[Miq]

Ave,

Thanks Falron (blid old me).

I wanted to but up a suggation (that has gone trought some topics) to lessen the effect of not voting. Right now as far as i know not voting == negative vote. i'd suggest something like this: not voting == 50%-70% of your loyalty as negative

Best,
Miq