Over Moderation

[dst]

 

For my, and everyone else's, clarification, what do you mean by 'or similar'? I'm hoping that this includes any slur that's directed at something that someone can not change (e.g. "race", gender, ethnicity, mental and/or physical disabilities, etc.).

 

Also, dst, in the part of Canada that I'm in, almost all if not all kinds of mockery/bullying is considered rude. I'm a native English speaker who is majoring in English and even I have tons of trouble with English. :P So I do feel for you. The problem is, it's hard to tell if someone is truly ignorant, or they're pretending to be ignorant. When in doubt, don't. Anyone can feel free to PM me text to ask me how I interpret it.

Thanks Change but that's highly counter productive:

-different TZs

-if I wait for a reply the subject might cooldown or the topic might get closed

-god forbids I need to re-write it if you tell me it's rude

[Change]

You don't understand dee dee. Just because Piss Piss was born from a idea inspired by you, it doesn't mean it was rude. If I haven't said it until now, I need to thank you. Piss Piss thanks you.

Piss Piss brings me a lot of joy and lots of smiles and lots of occasional itchings from her fairy dust. How can you call her rude?

 

See, now this thank you could easily come across as sarcastic where I come from, and not genuine. However, I think that's mainly because (as always, where I come from) we tend to interpret literally everything said as being sarcastic. It's actually really bad. :P But yeah, this is getting kind of offtopic.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Change

[dst]

So wait! You're banning sarcasm as well? O.o

[Change]

Okay, well maybe you were being sarcastic. My point is, it's impossible to tell if someone is being sarcastic or not nowadays--especially on the internet. Sarcasm itself is fine, but the problem is that sarcasm can often lead to insults. No, I'm pretty sure that we're not banning sarcasm itself. :P

[Ackshan Bemunah]

Such ambiguities as "/" being used as both "and" and "AKA" are really easy to misunderstand and can lead to arguments.

 

Or things like "earliest deadline", "spayed nouns" ... it's not clear in the MD linguistic universe whether something is meant for an image/feeling effect (e.g. sarcasm, emphasis, analogy) or has a precise meaning.  Comes with the customer base.

 

Unfortunately, that means when the feeling effects are read as negative, arguments happen, more than in other places.  And lead to themselves.

 

"assumption of good will" is the only cure, mods can't bring that (so maybe temp bans really are the best solution)

 

(maybe allow temp banned users to post in the spam/offtopic forum?)

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ackshan Bemunah

[Vicious]

Fight the power! no more rules! only just noticed the warning points thing :P people are going to hate me for messing around :(

Edited May 30, 2013 by Vicious

[dst]

So basically this will turn into a natzi* forum?

 

 

 

*in the light of recent rules - I have nothing against natzies! They are people as well! I used that word to try to explain my idea better!

[Jubaris]

Hmmmm... "Mocking if done properly"... The way I understand the term, mocking implies making fun of something, but a bit more extreme, 'putting down'. Rudeness is implied. 'Gentle' variations of mocking probably wouldn't be called mocking at all, but making fun of, or teasing.

 

About Romania - I know, Serbia was in communist Yugoslavia as well, but I think that someone from very different culture would probably spot more similarities than differences with the West. Geographically, we are all close and were influencing each other for centuries, differences shouldn't be that easily noticed on these forums, but maybe I am wrong.

 

(I am assuming Western standards for politeness and rudeness are applied here)

[Ackshan Bemunah]

So basically this will turn into a natzi* forum?

 

 

 

*in the light of recent rules - I have nothing against natzies! They are people as well! I used that word to try to explain my idea better!

 

Yes, like a ghetto without the torture, starvation, judgement and long-term living arrangements, hard labor etc. murder/permabans

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ackshan Bemunah

[Vicious]

well thats a way to end a conversation about rules!

[Shemhazaj]

Aren't we overthinking this a bit guys?

I really doubt the forum would get as restricted as dst is afraid it might.

Even before the proposed changes some posts were removed due to "aggressive hostility", what's added is the warning point.

Everyone can see if he/she got a warning point on his/her account.

If it indeed was because of a misunderstanding/language issues, I'm pretty sure it can be explained and warning point removed.

On the same note, if such thing happens one can learn when she/he's crossing the line.

I don't believe sarcasm or hostility can or should be removed from free speech. But as with everything, it can be abused and pushed too far.

That's where mods step in.

And I do believe they wouldn't be too anal about it. Just anal enough :P

[Fang Archbane]

Not gonna read what everyone else wrote.

But im down for this.

So down.

Im unbelieavably down.

Im below the ground, is how down i am with this.

 

Enforce the law Boss Wookie.

 

Take the Ban Hammer into your mighty furry palms, and slay the trolls fools that believe themselves untouchable.

[Rophs]

Chewwet would you kindly post an official list of racial slurs?

[Chewett]

Chewwet would you kindly post an official list of racial slurs?

That is a type of trolling post that I would remove.

[Mya Celestia]

Don't say anything that would get you punched if you were in that particular group would be a good start.  Remember to keep your words sweet...someday you may have to eat them. ;)

[Rophs]

Chewett I was not trolling, it's because there are some words in the grey zone of whether they are not racial slurs. Eg, calling someone "gay" (I know this is not a "racial slur" but it falls into the same category in that improper use of it may offend a certain demographic of people.)

[Kaya]

Chewett I was not trolling, it's because there are some words in the grey zone of whether they are not racial slurs. Eg, calling someone "gay" (I know this is not a "racial slur" but it falls into the same category in that improper use of it may offend a certain demographic of people.)

 

You pretty much answered the question yourself. If you use it normally it's fine, improper use isn't.

[No one]

Rude is anything that is done without respect for the other person. Mockery therefore in general is rude.

Is being rude forbidden ? Is mockery forbidden ? What do you do when "respect" is no longer available as in most fights ?

Because I opened a topic about someone who was insulting us in MD, so ... how can you respond to insults if not being at least rude / sarcastic ?

 

And ... I lack the writer skills to write the most pictures with just petals of roses.

Feel free to let me know when I cross the limits, don't expect me to agree with you.

 

 

Yes, I just couldnt think of anything specifically, including sexuality, IRL stuff that doesnt need mention, and definitely doesn't need mentioning as an insult

 

 

So, I had an issue with a comment specifically directed to me

 

http://magicduel.invisionzone.com/topic/13740-resource-depletion-for-or-against/#entry132678

You and your companions have overgrazed it like a herd of stupid cows. You have yet to produce any decent milk or meat and instead you have provided this load of infertile bull**** :P

 

From moderators (will not point):

We don't think that the posts you reported were so insulting that we'd need to remove them. We decided to not take further actions against them.

continued by

We'd think that last sentence in Rumi's post to be an insult if it stood on its own, but in the context of the rest of the post and whole thread, it's more of a provocative comparison than an actual insult. It's not like you were being called names, or otherwise insulted as person. All that's under attack is the contents you posted and the actions you've set in game. That's not a personal insult in our opinion.

 

So ... lets say that I will demand mods to PM for every change done to my posts (from here on) and the parts taken out.

[Chewett]

We have changed our moderation technieques, Going "you didnt do X before" does not apply since it is different now.

[Tom Pouce]

Id like to say that DST as valid points

 

I am for an forum that is moderate (and moderate the key word) NOT an whitewash forum

 

reading from 1er chewett post we see an dangerous progression of planned cencur

1er "to descend into insults" OK FOR THAT

2e  "descend into rudeness" THAT IS NOT GOOD ITS TO SUBJECTIVE AND WHITEWASHING

3e Troll ban THAT IS EVEN MORE FUZY AND CAN WHITE WASH EVERYTHING

 

dst Post is interesting and make good points

pointing that its even getting tone, and mocking BAN

 

I would like to nicely point that if we go in that extRems Chewett you should have been ban, in starting your topic for going as king in saying that you do it having finding that the other oponents where not wortly to being king/queen IT COULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AS RUDENESS RIGHT FROM THE START

 

and an exemple of mocking that i think had been seen as fun and acceptable from community is the thread that DST made herself piss piss princess

 

---

 

so in conclusion ,, yes for keeping forum MODERATE ... but in an MODERATE way not in what can quickly become whitewashing or cencur

Edited May 30, 2013 by Tom Pouce

[Change]

Have any of you read the original post? The changes only include:

 

• If us mods decide that you've caused a conversation to descend into insults, the topic will be locked and you'll be given a warning.
• If you use a racial/sexist/homophobic/etc., slur then you will be banned for a period of time.

Calling someone a troll is an insult, but it isn't a racial/sexist/homophobic/etc. remark. There's also the whole problem with certain synonyms of stupid being offensive to intellectually disabled people. No, I don't mean stupid, I mean the synonyms.

 

When in doubt, don't call someone names. Instead of saying, "You're stupid", say, "Your idea makes no sense. Here's why:"

Edited May 30, 2013 by Change

[Tom Pouce]

"Have any of you read the original post? The changes only include:

 

    If us mods decide that you've caused a conversation to descend into insults, the topic will be locked and you'll be given a warning.
    If you use a racial/sexist/homophobic/etc., slur then you will be banned for a period of time.
"

Change

i am confuse with this thread, ok you say that but if so why did you say in this theread

"Also, dst, in the part of Canada that I'm in, almost all if not all kinds of mockery/bullying is considered rude. I'm a native English speaker who is majoring in English and even I have tons of trouble with English. :P So I do feel for you. The problem is, it's hard to tell if someone is truly ignorant, or they're pretending to be ignorant. When in doubt, don't. Anyone can feel free to PM me text to ask me how I interpret it"

if i read you, almost all is rude ? ... if its rude its not defacto insults ... so why bring the subject

if yu begin to say that rude is equal of ensult and subject to ban ... then thats IS NOT AN MODERATE AND REASONNABLE POSITION

and when you say to DST , message me in doubt ill say to you what to say ... its either sarcastic, or an honest offer of cencur  of the worst kind ...

and by the way i am from Québec province, its still part of Canada, but one can still talk there  ..

 

---------------

 

So i repeat, ok for an moderate forum, but not an whitewash forum that one can only say aprove words ...

Edited May 30, 2013 by Tom Pouce

[Change]

That was a result of the thread going offtopic. Sorry, Tom Pouce. I never said that rudeness equals insults. As for the send me messages thing, I never said that I'll say to someone what to say. I said that I'll say if it comes across as rude, sarcastic, etc. Some people do come across as rude when they genuinely don't wish to come across as rude. It was more related to dst's post saying that she's not sure about what is rude or not. It wasn't meaning that you'll be banned if you're just rude.

 

I don't know what's so difficult to understand. How is not saying racist, sexist, etc., remarks so hard for people? Does myself or one of the mods need to get rid of every offtopic post in here so that it's clear?

 

How does 'not saying racist/sexist/etc., things' translate into 'one can only say approved words?'

Edited May 30, 2013 by Change

[Ivorak]

I come to the forums for ideas, plans, and announcements (In my opinion, most everything else should happen in game). Unfortunately I find a lot more than that.  

 

As for all this discussion of what it means to be rude, I'd like to offer one guideline.  Avoid ad hominems.  As some have tried stating previously, argue for and against ideas, not people.  Do not attack people.  It's not to their advantage but it's not to yours either.  Stupid ideas are stupid ideas.   But here's the thing: I've made them, you've made them.  They're easy to get fed up with, but the thing that I'm really fed up with is the idea that mistakes should define a person negatively without the possibility of redemption.  I'm upset that our squabbles are so full of personal attacks because we can't step back and see that regardless of whether or not we were right and 'they' were wrong that MagicDuel is something more than that.  

 

...okay, I've said what I had to say.  Now I'd like to backtrack.  I said do not attack people. Don't.  Unless you're going to stab them (the character, that is) in the back with your trusty blade.  Sometimes, just sometimes, action is better than words.  (And maybe I'll even let you borrow my dagger for a month, for the right price.  For self defense, of course.)

[Junior]

rawr rawr rawr everyone stop being so up tight geez its a game people gonna have haters face it you all do, (i dont because am half an ass :D) but seriously wouldnt you all rather come to the forum and enjoy a great cat fight (both females) rather than push away newcomers (not noob since it might be an insult) when they see racial "jokes" on the mood panel or hyperlinks to dst being called a HO or HOE or WHORE whichever you all know depending on whether or not you are associated with western culture. I think its a great idea to have the forum to vent, nowadays its better than my NOVELAS (am mexican). Why not allow two people who dislike (because we all know hate is a strong word) eachother go at it? Guess what if i didnt care i wouldnt click on the topic stating PO is pissing on itself (is it?) but guess what i dont care and i still click on it just for manure (yay adjectives) and giggles. so i think i've written a run on sentence my teacher must be rolling over in her shallow grave so i'll end it. Go STD and Go IT i applaud you both. (you know i still love you both)