Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 17, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I will present step by step ..something.. that will start to take shape slowly and will be a major shift in how the social structure, tags and roles will be acknowledged as official. This is intended as a major thing in MD, but one that i am hoping to complete how things are functioning now and not change them too much. Roles/tags are earned through your constant activity and sometimes awarded on special occasions. Currently there is nothing except the tag and description and occasionally an announcement that makes the role official...what else could it be..my, or councils "word" is enough. Well...here is where things will updated a bit. At some point in MD history, the Council operated by requireing just two votes of its members. In case no other member objected to the voted matter. Keep this in mind for now. I want to delegate council/my authority of giving roles/tags to people such as land leaders (Kings and Queens) and maybe to people that hold well known roles for a very long time. It is difficult to explain what i want to do, but the concept is simple. I will try to detail it slowly, by answering your questions and soon i will provide more detailed info. Tags/Roles will be called Titles from now on. A Title can be granted by a higher authority, such as your King, plus one additional authority, for a start that will be myself. Remember the "MD Diploma / Fancy Legacy Box" topic i posted recently, where i wanted to create fancy documents to send out to people and prepare seals and all the associated materials? It received a negative vote from the community (at least in my opinion), mainly because there are other more important things to do and because there are no funds to do such a "crazyness" at this point. However I will do it, in an adapted way. For now we will discuss this as if they will be VIRTUAL, its simpler that way for now. Lets try to see if you understand the "layout/structure" of how titles will be granted: Me, Muratus del Mur, -> insert fancy titles here <- will create a limited number of pre-signed blank documents that represent my authority as one of the leaders of the lands in MD. I will give these documents to other high authority characters in MD, for example the kings or other important roles. Now...that means i am blindly trusting the person i am giving such a document to, that they will use it wisely. Lets say a King holds such a blank title document. This king will be able to fill in details about a title he wants to give, only under the scope of his own authority (only matters that involve his own land). LHO leader holding such a blank title document, could fill it only with a title under his own authority...and so on. So far this is clear? makes sense for you? questions? These titles once signed by both me (already) and the second authority (king,important role,etc) will be given to a player, granting him that title FOREVER. My intention is that these titles will be created in such a way that they will never "expire". This is same concept as the King crown medal. Once you become king, you receive that crown, and it will remain yours forever regardless if you are still a king or not. In the same way, these titles will remain yours forever, without an expiry date. What will happen if two people have two conflicting titles? ...here is a big change... BOTH are valid, but the person with highest active days/activity percentage (or other factors maybe?) will have higher power, controlling the grated role/title. Ok..don't panic, this involves a lot of things, i am aware of the majority of them...and i am aware things will change, but i see this change as a complementary thing to how my vision about md is. Activity defines your influence...dead and forgotten people should not be able to actively USE titles, but should still hold them forever because at some point they earned them. THIS WILL APPLY ONLY FROM NOW ON....this is totally unfair, i know, but giving titles backwards it will be a total mess. However..any ancient role that becomes active again might receive his "Title" document. I might do an exception to king roles because they are very important and very few..maybe one or two other roles, but thats it. I said to consider these docs "virtual" .. maybe i will make items for them for now...but i want you to know that i am planning to make them actual printed documents (signed, fancy paper, gold finish and all the bells and whisles), and have them ready before this new concept will be fully integrated. This subject is open for debate, i will listen to both pro and contra opinions, but i will "fight" for this to happen, even if it requires significant sacrifices. I am however prepared to change my mind if somehow there are aspects of this that will prove to be to stupid or unrealistic...so feel free to challenge this matter if you don't agree to it...but also state your support if you like it. (Hearing positive opinions will make me do things faster and better :P ) nadrolski, Intrigue, VertuHonagan and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fang Archbane Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 My only question here is thus (Although i do agree with this, it sounds fun, if nothing else), what do people that have no higher authority do? If, for example, i wanted a Title, who would i go to? I belong to no land, and im perfectly happy as such. What options do Aimless Wanderers have? Intrigue, dst and Ackshan Bemunah 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipstickz Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 At the moment, one person can only have two tags if one is a minor one, will this change if this system is implemented? For example, Rhaegar is a leader of Marind Bell and also a Dreamweaver, would he have two titles to show that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Eye Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 My opinion is if you holding tags minor or higher than can possible only One tag appear to what he/she become. It is good one tag to per player(consul,council,leader or king ) If they have two tags. Player can choose what tags can remain to kept as his tag forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrian Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 "Once you become king, you receive that crown, and it will remain yours forever regardless if you are still a king or not. In the same way, these titles will remain yours forever, without an expiry date. What will happen if two people have two conflicting titles? ...here is a big change... BOTH are valid, but the person with highest active days/activity percentage (or other factors maybe?) will have higher power, controlling the grated role/title." if this is based on purely AD, then a younger king/queen taking power would be overshadowed in authority by the older one, which doesnt make all that much sense and wouldnt work well as a transfer of power, and logically, how can you have a crown and be a king...if youre not the king(for eg)? Sy DARK DEMON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valldore Nal Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 In general, the idea sounds very interesting. (Well, the last part about printing and such goes on the same way with that box idea you had,i'll say this part sounds just fun but has no real usefulness. But from what i understand that's a certain point of view/action you like, so i'll just say for me it sounds indifference for the shake of evaluating the whole point ) What i disagree a bit, or maybe better say it , what i see that might go wrong at some point , is the part where you blindly trust people to give this "Titles" while making completely clear that you plan to make them permanent. Well, in a way, if you do make them as such and something goes wrong (anything, it doesn't matter what exactly), you kind off keep yours and other people's hands tied up. Ofc if it's that serious you can always just take back or change what you initially planned, but you know, it's better if you keep a small back-door from the start than doing changes later, looks neater :P What would be nice in order for us to get a better idea would be to maybe try and offer some more specific examples and their respective authority. DARK DEMON and Nimrodel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ary Endleg Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 How does this replaces current double tag system? I thought that kings already have the power to give tags so this now makes them require a second person to agree, is this the only change about it? Just changing the way it's given out? What about the 'permanent' part of it? Many people/characters change over time and so does their role. For example LR military leader yesterday, retired-exiled and vanished-imprisoned Commander tomorrow. The one good thing about this is that it will survive jail tag override. Please elaborate some more on this permanemt part and how it affects current (double) tags including jail, summonbytag and official tags like LHO inquisitor, public council, code guardian, master of forum, king and such. Jubaris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 What happens if a player abuses his powers granted by their role? Will that player get strip only from the powers or the title as well? No one and Ivorak 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eara Meraia Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe its just me, but so far I fail to see the difference between Tags and Titles system, except that titles are granted forever. Will titles have prescribed names and roles...like for example Kings title which automatically means specific tasks and responsibilities or those titles are more or less freely adapted to particular players role, like Syrians Tag "Child of Necrovion"? Will those titles mean also that special "powers" will be granted, like for example in Kings case its right to grant citizenship? Agree with Valldore, I would love to have an example or two to be able to comprehend a new concept fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ary Endleg Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 THIS WILL APPLY ONLY FROM NOW ON....this is totally unfair, i know, but giving titles backwards it will be a total mess. However..any ancient role that becomes active again might receive his "Title" document. I might do an exception to king roles because they are very important and very few..maybe one or two other roles, but thats it. This is another thing that bugs me. You said it's permanent thing, yet you say this permanent title thing applies to roles such as king role. Now kings get replaced, now it would be very awkward if we get 10 kings of same land walking around with such title. Even more awkward if that ex king joins another land at some later point, then imagine how screwed situation would be if all those ex kings even keep a power over citizenship granting as Eara mentioned. You really need to elaborate fully what type of roles does this cover and what exactly the permament mean in this. So far whole thing changes how tag is granted and how it makes perfectly no sense to be kept permanently. Person can join and leave summon by tag group, person can join and leave Public Council, person can become king and resign or get kicked out, person can switch sides, person can get jailed and the most often example, person can change role. Even if you give title as trivial as Bartender to somebody, that person can say "Screw this I go do herbalisam from now on." People change as game affects them. It is only logical that if person stops doing something and starts doing something else he is no longer refered to by his old profession. Unless by permanent you mean that person can get mutliple title certificates in inventory that aren't transferable and that he can activate one of his earned titles manually himself, something like that Combat shield from WP shop that has few weeks cooldown between activating and deactivating, then I guess it could be fine as long as titles of power get some indicator like "Ex king". One could reactive his Bartender title if he wants to do that again, but you can't reactive your king title in same manner. DARK DEMON 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maebius Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I can somewhat understand teh discussion here regarding "past titles like Ex-king are invalid"... but I don't see why this is a problem. Titles are titles. Perhaps the Tag system is changing. Perhaps there's Virtual Title Documents that do soemthing fancy... But as I understand it, the owneers of them have earned them at some point. Kings were kings. That never changes. Consider it like a resume/CV for your job. It's experience you never forget. You may not be a bartender now, and prefer herbalism, (to use the most recent post) but I bet you can still mix a drink, unlike me. Why focus on mechanics and limitations. Let the idea sprout first, and see what happens. There's always options of changing it later if things don't work out. Meanwhile, why not let the potential expand a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 17, 2014 Author Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Answers to all the above: - i intend to allow more just one tag, in fact this is on chewetts desk for quite a while, there will be multiple tags and a player could chose from his available/awarded tags. This fits perfectly with this "Titles" concept. - the only differences between current tags and these titles is that titles will be "multiple", not just main and secondary. This is something that will be reflected also in the interface when multiple tags update/feature will be implemented. Also, titles will have a more permanent "feel" since you will receive an actual document granting you that title forever. - individual powers are not titles, but a title may come with multiple powers associated with it. Granting citizenship is a kings right. To compare it with "RL" ... a doctor once a doctor will always remain a doctor. He might be stripped of his right to practice, but his title remains. A general will still remain a general even when retired. A title names a gained role, this role and the experience that lead you to it, can't be taken away from you, same way this document will never be taken away from you, but the right to apply/use it might be subject to the ongoing reality of your actions and social developments (such as elections). MD shape and structure changes irreversibly by the actions of its characters, even if these characters go crazy and abuse, break rules or go rogue, their "touch" on the realm remains. We will have to heal the wounds made by characters that will abuse, but not by taking away their achievements. This is in a way similar in concept with how active days are treated, regardless of penalty, ip ban, permanent jail, etc, the active days are never taken away or reset because these indicate an irreversible evolution note: The "TItles" concept is not perfect, this is the first time i open the subject publicly but the "feeling" that took me to it is part of the same "feeling" that guided me to shape md. That means that at a intuitive level, it should integrate with many other things and fit like a glove with the rest... i just need to adjust it and fine-tune it properly. Ackshan Bemunah and Sephirah Caelum 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Chewett Posted January 17, 2014 Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 - i intend to allow more just one tag, in fact this is on chewetts desk for quite a while, there will be multiple tags and a player could chose from his available/awarded tags. This fits perfectly with this "Titles" concept.Soon. Ackshan Bemunah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ary Endleg Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Why focus on mechanics and limitations. Let the idea sprout first, and see what happens. There's always options of changing it later if things don't work out. Meanwhile, why not let the potential expand a bit? because this is MD, if something doesn't works good it will be fixed SOON! We should challenge every idea as best as we can and find solutions to those problems before it gets implemented, this will assure better quality of the feature. I like Mur's answer to this. So now it all looks fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 17, 2014 Author Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Regarding retroactive titles: it bothers me that i won't give these titles retroactively, but i also think its better like this. It will be an incentive for older characters to refresh their character and boost their activity..once they do that and remind the entire community they exist, they will get the title. When i say they won't be given retroactively, I mean i won't go through entire md history and digg out long gone legends to send them such a title document. I hope that is understandable. Variation of authority: i will issue first certificates as i said, with my authority and one of a second person...but the way this concept works allows that in the future other "combinations" of authority can be created, for example two lands partnerships, or council plus one king, or council plus one powerful role, for example council plus nimrodel for granting quest creator certificates.... the possibilities are endless and very very exciting. I think these documents will become a very beautiful collectible item. The costs for posting them will be minimum (about 1$) and the creation of the base materials i will try to support myself or through sponsorships , it will not cost you anything, in case you wonder that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 So basically Titles will be "collectibles" or achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 17, 2014 Author Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 you wouldn't collect such a thing? you would just throw it away with your bills? :P Ackshan Bemunah and Intrigue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dst Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 >_< more collectibles! At this rate I will NEVER quit MD! Ackshan Bemunah and Intrigue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 17, 2014 Author Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I am editing my part of the seal, i need some help writing the text properly, needs to be correct and to sound nice too. This will be written under the land seal, as part of the seal stamp. This is my draft, please help me write it right, also take care of what should be capitalized and what not: "This Seal certifies that this document is acknowledged by the authority of the Dominion of Mur land part of the Lands of the East territory." or if you have a better wording that would show the significance of the seal above this text, i am open to suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Darn, I am too slow for this topic. It seems that some others had some ideas that match part of what I thought but I still keep the entire text. Here it is : This looks like the list of achievents. And I think that the implementation I think it is a combination between - achievements - as you will have multiple titles (granted on achievements, different degrees ...) - items - because they will be granted to you (untradable) and will have actions attached to them or not - tags - as it should display one of the tags (at your choice). - loialty - it will increase with time during tag "validity" ; in the end loialties are just a list of "powers" The fair thing would be to convert the current tags to these roles with no other power attached. Ppl worked for their tags. An addon : in personal page, there is at least one [doc] that is not used. Maybe you can add it as a list of these Titles Having the list of tags ... maybe the "jailed" tag could be kept. I think Mur said once that being jailed should affect you somehow and should remain in your history (or something like that). You should be able to choose between different tags / achievemnts / titles / roles to display it while clicking your char's name in chat. But I still don't have an idea on how to use these titles except if you consider these titles as loialty and then they'll increase some counters. Edit : @Mur: "This hereby is granted and acknowledged by the authority of the Dominion of Mur as part of Lands of the East territory." Edited January 17, 2014 by No one Sephirah Caelum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azull Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 This will be written under the land seal, as part of the seal stamp. Might I remind you that there are still lands which don't have a seal (coat of arms). ( or at least not one that is approved by you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrigue Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Personally, I think it's a really neat idea, even if it were just to remain a virtual reward for a long time. Especially if you can pick and choose between those you are awarded to display if/when your role within MD changes. With this not being retroactive though, how would activity be kept up with? Will there be some kind of new thing to measure activity besides the active days counter since it's going to be all new? a shiny new clickie perhaps? On second thought, I think a date stamp on the title itself would cover this well, unless the holder goes inactive for a long period of time. Edited January 17, 2014 by Intrigue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Admin Muratus del Mur Posted January 17, 2014 Author Root Admin Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 We need to finetune the list of situations where such a doc will be needed and also the way it will be formulated. It needs to be written in such way that it is timeless. After i finish with the seal and canvas decorations i will work on some text samples. Thanks for the text update No one. sounds much better. currently when these papers will be released there will be a very high demand, ..over time this demand will be filled and things will move on a a slower rate, but at first there will be chaos :) Hopefully this will be a good motivation both for me and the respective lands to get a nice coat of arms. I am thinking to start first with GG...but i am not yet fully decided. Maybe due to financial reasons i won't be able to make stamps for each land and i will print them...i need to think of this, one step at a time. For now i have my seal almost ready, and today i will work on the paper design, then in the next days i will look for offers that will match my budget to get the first few blank docs printed. I will keep you all updated of course. I am focusing on the "real/touchable" aspect of this because this is what motivates me a lot, but there is always the virtual alternative that can be a placeholder...one way or an other this will be done sooner than my usual version of "soon" :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackshan Bemunah Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I am focusing on the "real/touchable" aspect of this because this is what motivates me a lot, but there is always the virtual alternative that can be a placeholder...one way or an other this will be done sooner than my usual version of "soon" We can print it out and take a picture with it if that makes you feel better :P dst and Rophs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephirah Caelum Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Agreed with this new concept. Edit 01: good No one. @Mur: "This hereby is granted and acknowledged by the authority of the Dominion of Mur as part of Lands of the East territory." Edited January 17, 2014 by Sephirah Caelum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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