Firsanthalas

I am kinda sick of hearing this rhetoric about Rhaegar and the past. Lets give a few history lessons shall we. First up, Rhaegar was let into the alliance along with other people when Grido and Z tried to rebuild it. He did not rebuild it from nothing like Jazira is now attempting to do. Secondly, Rhaegar himself seemed to change the direction and ideas for the Church on several occassions. At one point he started to take up residence in the Tribunal Temple and he spoke about using it as a base for the Savels. That seemed to just peter out after a while. Then he wanted the Savels to be historians in Loreroot, then he started the avatar shop. There is more, but they are the big ones I can think of right off the top of my head. Thirdly, he's a blockhead with as much subtlety as a bull in a china shop. He has zero tact and succeeded in royally getting up a lot of people's noses with his crap. He still does. He had an issue with me from day 1. Why? Because he listened to and believed venomous crap that was still boiling over from old wounds in Loreroot. No matter what happened, he never ever got past that. In short, he was a source of conflict within Loreroot and outside it too. I put up with Rhaegar for as long as I did for one simple fact. I was trying to be fair. I did not want my personal feelings towards him to cloud my judgement and I wanted to give him a chance. Many people felt that I was too soft and I believe that Rhaegar himself started to believe that I was somehow weak and he could push me as much as he wanted. Wrong on that score. He's a control freak. He seemed incapable of delegating tasks and only seemed to want to work with people when he felt like it or if he wanted to. By and large he showed little interest in working with anyone outside the Savels. He openly fostered a belief in at least some of the Savels, that if they were in the alliance before the kingship elections, then they didn't have to recognise the king. For any leader of any group in Loreoot to do such a thing is unacceptable. I also found out that things I said concerning his members were either not passed on or twisted. And he insisted that he deal with his members, not me. Activity of the Savels... Towards the end of his tenure, there was little or none. Most of the members seemed inactive and at least one member seemed to spend more time outside the alliance than actually in it (not a personal dig by the way, merely the way things seemed). When I booted him there was almost no reaction from them. Infact, some of them seemed completely oblivious to what had happened. Personally I was disappointed. I had expected more of a reaction, any reaction. When Marv took over he tried to contact the members and got almost no response until he kicked people. Savelite items.... Rhaegar aggressively sought the items that he felt belonged to the church. He was very insistent (to put it mildly) that they belonged to the church. Where are they now? He refused to return the ones he had to Marvolo, when Marvolo took over. I guess that they only belong to the church if Rhaegar is running it. Maybe it should be called the church of Rhaegar? Alliance location.. Rhaegar himself stated to me very clearly that the Savels belonged in Loreroot and would never leave. Savelite memorial.... Yeah, I find this a mixture of funny and sickening really. For starters it is really a homage to himself and one or two others, as well as a two fingered salute to myself and the rest of Loreroot. He's missing at least one name of an older member from that list and he has included names of people that had long gone before his demise and also some people that were barely there or did anything at all. The Savels are also not dead, so having a 'memorial' is in poor taste in my opinion. The ultimate irony though, is that the alliance should have a memorial, because it should be put to bed in my opinion. But it seems that people in MD have an inability to let go of the past and move on. If this new incarnation of the alliance does not make something of itself it will be going to alliance heaven. Make no mistakes about it. As for a memorial, that should be something that is done by the MD community (or at the very least the land of the alliance), not by one or two people with an axe to grind. Rhaegar had his chance. He blew it royally, so stop this nonsense of saying he should have it back. It is time to give someone else a chance or put the alliance to bed once and for all.

Alrighty, it is still going on. Was told point blank today by an MP3 that they were told what was required. Seriously, whoever is doing it stop!! New players can get into Loreroot by using torches or asking. There is no reason to be telling them, you are really only robbing them of a valuable lesson in the long run. I want to be clear. There is no issue with people gaining access to Loreroot. We will let people in if they really want to see Loreroot. Defeating the guardians though is a part of the learning experience in MD, simply telling someone is not really a good thing for them.

I've already spoken to Jester about this this morning. I strongly suggest that anyone that is in a situation like this at MP3 or MP4 should not be allowed to join alliances and should be removed from any they are in. If he can only attack MP3s then his reasons for staying MP3 become null and void. You don't need to change the mechanics, just change the situation. I would urge any leader, land, alliance or guild to consider the implications of situations such as this and put the general MD community first.

We aren't acting like the inquisition. In the past people were moved up MP levels because they were simply over-powered. MP3 is about learning, it is not about using your knowledge to sit there as the cream of the crop. While I can't prove it, I also suspect that he used a wishpoint to get his xp back to zero. Granted there is nothing wrong with this, but it really seems silly to me to be using it at MP3 purely to stay there for the purpose of being some kind of super strong MP3. Just a personal opinion though.

[quote]ouch.! not what I have expected from kings.. to decide this fast *sigh*[/quote] What do you want? Kings that faff about incapable of making a decision for themselves? Besides, this is not something I am saying as a king. It my my view as a person, a player of MD. I never made any announcement or call on any title when I made my post. It is the view of a person. [quote]That's is his role he is feb.. he is what he is.. and don't force someone to be something he don't want.. that is his choice of role.. as an mp3 who's trying to change the peoples perception about mp3's..[/quote] Role? Sorry, but if a role is threatening the game then I think it needs to be examined and considered. Don't force someone to be something he don't want? What about the people that have been capped by his antics? To me this is a similar vein to MP3s and MP4s going around with regen rits. They DO NOT serve a purpose, other than to get up people's noses and generally fill them will ill feeling towards MD and its community. If that is the case, then you might as well say his role is to annoy new players to the point of quitting the game. To me that seems self defeating and shortsighted. I am sorry, but if he has capped other MP3s then perhaps it is time for a taste of his own medicine. And having him stay at MP3 capped because he wants to stay that way is not medicine is it? I'll go one further and fire something out if you want me to. Namely, that I think his alliance colleagues should consider his position given his actions.

I will also add my voice. I am not a fighter, anyone that knows me knows this. I get beaten by many players, many much younger than me in MD terms. I am used to it, it really doesn't bother me all that much. There are other things that concern me. In the past we saw people forced up MP levels because they were too powerful for their MP level. I think this is definitely such a case.

You are missing the point. He did it, its done. Its time to move on now, not stay there trying to prove some already proved (and probably pointless to begin with) point.

Initially I wasn't going to post, but then I decided that I should. First up. Nobody likes a bragger. We all like to get one over on our foes from time to time, but this is going way overboard. Secondly, I don't agree with the argument that the vets are just angry because an MP3 beat them. Losses are part of fighting and when the fighting system was more balanced it was not unheard of for a player to be beaten by a lower level. For starters there is an amazingly simple little rit that can score a person a surprise victory (although it has become less likely to work in more recent times, but sometimes it still can). I have seen February sitting at the park with that ridiculous rit as his defence rit. I have a serious issue with that for one simple reason, he is MP3. It is clear that the account was created purely to take scalps. It is a pretty ridiculous account to be fair. It was purely engineered to create such a rit and nothing else. The fact that he can defeat some of the most powerful fighters in the game with it pretty much cries out for him to be booted up a few MP levels. Why?, because it is way beyond the realm of other MP3s and if we start to see more of this nonsense it will have a negative effect on MD. I'm sorry, but I don't see the sense in people creating new MP3 accounts with the sole purpose of trying to somehow create ubber hard killing machine accounts. It think that ruins the game to be honest and takes a large dump on the people that are actually playing for the first time and are struggling to find their feet. Given the amount of age, wins and xp it is completely nuts to think that an MP3 has maxed angiens. Granted it is obviously possible for an MP3 to have them, but to be honest I think they shouldn't. For me at least, part of MD is about progression. MP3 is really more of a learning phase about the game. The levels required to advance are low and I believe deliberately so. If you have mastered what you need, then you should advance. Hanging around with the 10 yr olds at school when you are 18 so that you can say you are so much better than the 18 yr olds coz you can beat them up and you are only in the 10 yr old class......well it seems stupid to me. One other thing. There is no skill involved here at all. Given some help and time anyone else could do something similar. The rit itself also has a high element of luck involved in its effectiveness. If it freezes the right creatures the opponent has etc. And as has already been stated, it gets beaten, it isn't like Feb is so all powerful that he defeats the MP5s every single time. If this was about proving a point of some sort then fine. But I think the point is proven, so either move on or just drop it. It is getting old now. (Note to mods, I tried to avoid spoilers although my comments towards the end may be spoilerish. Sorry, but I couldn't think of a way to make the point otherwise.)

It is important that people let Marvolo know. Just so people know, he cannot see who, if anyone has applied. But he can check a name for an application and then either approve or reject the application.

Why 'outside' the land? Never hear of a coup? And again, if a king/queen has lost the plot and people just walk away, where does that leave things? One more thing. In real life people elect parties and politicians into power. At some point those politicians and parties may do something that the voters don't like. That is the point of government. The voters can't simply decide that because a new law is brought in that they don't like and wasn't there before the government that they don't have to follow it. You cannot please all of the people all of the time. If someone feels that they can't handle that fact, then it is pretty simple, don't join an alliance or become a citizen if you don't think you can stomach it. If you find yourself in a situation like a new king arriving on the scene, then you can either leave, or decide to stand your ground. I seriously think that allowing people to simply move alliances from one land to another is a bad idea. Many people already seem to view them as social clubs as it is. I for one feel that this kind of talk is just furthering that. There is meant to be a bit of pain involved in joining an alliance. It isn't all supposed to be a bed of roses. That is what loyalty, sacrifice and a higher purpose are about.

Bottom line. If the response of an alliance is to simply run away because they have an issue with the King, then they shouldn't continue to exist at all. In particular, the duty of a land alliance is to protect the land. If that means protecting it from a terrible king or queen, then they should do that. Running away is a gross failure in that regards. Furthermore, there is an already awful lack of loylaty within MD (Im not talking about the stat). If you want to start a system whereby people can up sticks and leave en mass, then there really is little point in having alliances or citizenship at all. If an alliance feels a king is wrong, then they should stand and fight for that belief and the king should either take note of the fact that an entire alliance is rebelling and consider that perhaps there is good cause or he should put it down. Having multiple alliances in a land is even better, becuase it allows for more than one to band together. If the leader of an alliance takes issue with the king and has little or no support from his fellows, then he needs to go. That is the way it currently is and I believe that is the way it should stay. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Rhaegar, that is a load of toss. The Savel alliance people by and large said zip. The option was given publicly and still nothing. You didn't have support, except perhaps from a minority even within your own alliance. Also, we had a discsussion about the fate of the Savels long before any public fall out between us. You had taken up residence in the Temple in Tribunal lands and the idea of the Savels leaving Loreroot was discussed. You yourself informed me that the Savels would never leave Loreroot because they were Lorerootians through and through. When I was elected as king however, that opinion seemed to change. Suddenly you and some of the Savels seemed to think that you were not citizens (in that at the very least you didn't have to acknowledge the king). So, when things turned nasty I again put the offer on the table. Something, which I consider to be a hugely magnanimous gesture. The fact that the move never happened shows that you didn't have the support that you constantly waffle on about and that you were also incapable of mobilising the alliance. Have some dignity and accept that you were wrong and try not to repeat that mistake again. And while you are at it, stop ridiculing and disrespecting people because they didn't take your side. You were wrong, you shouldn't be blaming those that didn't jump into the fire with you.

With respect Miq, but you are waaaaaaaayyyyyy off. For starters some Alliances are LAND Alliances. The Guardians of the Root, Sentinels, GG, KOB. How could you have the Knights of Bell leave MB and decide to protect Necrovion say? Also, there is already very little a king can do to actually exert any control of citizens. Sure he can toss them in jail, but only with good cause. What he can't do though is stop people leaving. If you want to throw in that an entire alliance can leave, then what is the point? And I am the one that offered an alliance the option to leave. But just having them have to option to walk out because they feel like it? Nuts I say.

Amoran, Marvolo, Mya, Shemhazaj, Tarquinus, And me.

If I may. Oddly enough, going into education during a recession is probably a good thing. While right now things are bad, by the time you would be graduating things should have picked up and may be even in a high. Far better than to be graduating in a climate like the current one at least. So, while leaving it for a year may be a good choice (especially if you are unsure of what you want to do for instance), don't leave it too long.

I've disbanded the Savelites for the moment. If someone feels that they can restore the alliance to a worthwhile state then I will make it active again. Otherwise I will have it removed permanently. You have 1 month to draw up a plan and present it for consideration. I also expect you to have at least two other people that will assist you and form a core group within the alliance. If a plan of action is accepted, then there will be a 3 to 6 month evaluation period (not decided yet and possibly open to negotiation). If after that time things are not progressing or are not working out the alliance goes. I'll also be contacting Mur about reducing the seat count of the alliance. I've made this decision based on consultation with Marvolo and other Loreroot Court members. If for any reason you are not open or eligible for Loreroot citizenship, don't apply, you're wasting your time.

Two new positions/roles have been created. The Censor will help with looking after citizenship. This office will be held by Marvolo. The Treasurer will help to look after the land funds. This office will be held by Shemhazaj. Both positions will hold a seat on the Court of Loreroot. Congratulations and good luck to both of you.

Happy birthday. And remember, if you can still stand you should not stop drinking. Ohh and getting sick is just making more room for more alcohol. And don't drink it if it wasn't in a bottle to begin with!

Ok guys and girls, like I said earlier can we please put this to bed. Lets just let the Woodcutters be about their business and forget about pointing fingers. I'll speak with anyone that wants to, even if it to have a go at me, but I think it is best kept off the forums. The Woodcutters say they have their setup sorted and their main focus now should be organising themselves internally and fulfilling their role. So lets leave them to do that. With the greatest respect No-one, you are kinda wrong and if you read my previous post you'd have seen that I just want to let things move on. Your post is kind of just inviting more of the same and therefore counter-productive to what you are trying to say. People being people, won't disregard something once it has entered their mind. Personally I think we should close this topic before it derails completely.

[quote name='Necromancer Mortis' date='12 August 2010 - 05:49 PM' timestamp='1281631791' post='65942'] Yes, and if you had done that then any worker's union worth the title would have ample material to slowly roast you over a spit. [/quote] With respect, you are wrong there. If a union has a dispute, the entire union does not march into the boss or company. The union rep does that. When the company wants to engage with the union, they do so through the rep. In any structure there is a figurehead or spokesperson. You can call them a president, PrimeMinister, First Citizen, Leader, Commander in Chief, Spokesperson, whatever you like. Regardless of whether you are dealing with a democracy, dictatorship or communism there is a leading figure or spokesperson. Despite what some people think, I do consult with other people in Loreroot about things. Currently that consists of Tarquinus, Amoran, Mya and Marvolo. These are the principle people in their alliances.** At some point it makes sense to include the Woodcutters, but you can't seriously expect that every single person within the Woodcutters are to be consulted about everything. There has to be one or two people that are consulted and then relay information back and speak for the others. At some point it will also be likely that we will have to include a spokesperson for the non-alliance/guild citizens of Loreroot. As for the materials you harvest and produce, well that is entirely up to the Woodcutters guild themselves. Believe it or not, it is my understanding that the guild are fully responsible for that, even if it results in depleting the resources constantly. However, the guild being subject to take-overs or arguments that spill over and the results of which can have a negative impact on Loreroot, well that is my business. Put yourself in my shoes for 5 minutes. Mur appoints you, Mortis, as the leader, before I even speak to you, there is a new leader (we are talking loyalty ratings here. I know the system you may decide to use to govern the alliance may be different, but the fact remains that the leader by loyalty can eject everyone from the alliance/guild. It is a serious matter). There also seems to be some odd changes of personnel, including at least one person that wants to change which of their alts is in the alliance, if not two. And added to all that there were rumblings that the guild and its members were like some independent entity within Loreroot. Sorry, but from my point of view it was looking like a powderkeg waiting for a match. And I feel that if I simply stood back and said or did nothing at all then I was failing in my duties. You may disagree, but that is how I saw it and still do. As for me being rude or abrupt....I wished to speak to you about what I considered to be a serious matter. Your main concern at the time seemed to be to get a win. It was very inspiring indeed. Anyway, it is about time this conversation was put to bed and we move on and you get the Woodcutters up and running and performing its role. It is a new addition and one that I feel should really help MD and the community. Despite what anyone may think, I am not here to be a hindrance to you, I want the guild to thrive and be a success. If you feel that you can't talk to me for some reason there are other people in Loreroot that have experience in leading and running alliances and groups. Don't be afraid to call upon and use that experience. Edit: ** At least they are for the moment due to factors like activity. There may be in fact other people that are more senior etc

I think that what Chewy is really getting at, is having a situation whereby a player has an alt in multiple guilds, especially if it is one in each land. As the guilds are not combative and are neutral in that sense, then there really isn't an issue of conflicted interest as such. Although there could be if a person was more willing to sell or give materials to a member of their main's land or indeed pass things on to their alts for their alts to benefit from. I for one have no issue with someone that has an alt in Golemnus or anywhere else having a character in the Woodcutters. I would have an issue with said alt passing stuff to their alts or chums though, or dealing unfairly with people. I also don't want to see a situation where essentially the same person is turning up in every alliance/guild in MD. That is a personal viewpoint, but there it is. It is my impression that some people that joined the Woodcutters had no interest in joining Loreroot as a citizen and indeed may have held some animosity towards it. I find it galling to think that people will just jump into the guild simply because of what it is and no other consideration, like where it is. I hope I am wrong in this and apologies to anyone that feels I am being unfair, but it is my personal view on the matter. I already feel that citizenship is not treated properly by many people and some people think of alliances as nothing more than frat/social clubs. That is part of the reason why I don't always reply to people that want to join the Guardians, sometimes I let them do the chasing. If they don't, then perhaps they were not that serious to begin with. Personally, I'd rather one committed individula in the alliance than any number of Johnny come lightly types. Late note: I would also like to point out that at least one person wanted to change who was in the guild (by that I mean their alts). To me this instantly screams of having no regard to keeping alts separate and distinct. You may disagree, but that is how I see it.

Please don't start making suggestions. Leave them to make their own mind up. This isn't a 'how should the Guild be organised' thread. I don't mean to sound abrasive. Just don't want this spilling off into a thread of doom.

There is another aspect. Give someone else a chance. What is the point in essentially having the same people running everything? I think it is good to spread things around a bit and not very healthy for a person or persons to have their fingers in too many pies, especially if they can result in a conflict of interest or leave them open to abuse.

I just want to make something clear here. I am in no way trying to interfere with the work of the guild and how they manage the resources they harvest. How they do that and what they do with them will be their business as far as I understand the idea of the guild. I may make a request at times (which will be a request and nothing more). But I am concerned that the guild operates properly and is not held up in doing its work due to internal squabbling or politics. As I said earlier, it is part of Loreroot and therefore there are wider implications to the land. But we are not talking about the function of the guild here. As Yrth said, there has to be a leader, at least mechanically. Remember, the Guardians of the Root have two leaders, but one still has to occupy the top spot so to speak. And there needs to be considerations to invites into the alliance. Currently anyone can simply invite a mate in with a higher loyalty and they can boot everyone else out. Letting things drag on could be bad and that was and is my concern. That is all.

Ok, I will be blunt about it. There was some sort of a vibe from some members of the Woodcutters that they are somehow not citizens of Loreroot. They are and I won't tolerate any notion otherwise. Call it draconian or heavy handed if you will, but I've already been down that road before. I also do genuinely believe it is best for them to sort out a leader or structure as soon as possible. That is in everyone's best interest. Right now, on the surface of things, anyone can invite anyone in and whoever has the highest loyalty is leader there. Sorry, but people can be very opportunistic and the situation could easily be abused. As for Rhaegar.......if you are seriously giving credence to anything he says then I think there is no hope for anyone really. If putting up with personal insults and crap from one person for about a year before finally having enough makes me heavy handed, then so be it. Oddly enough though, most people feel I am too soft . I guess it goes to show that you can't win no matter what. (On a completely unrelated note. Is the Woodcutters team brit or something? Because they almost all seem to be from the UK )