Shadowseeker

I'd like that count actually. Would help me wonder where I wasn't yet.

No thanks.

Heh..it made me laugh. A nice video just to kill some time.

The 600400 rust I might want, what do you consider as a price?

I would want neither, sadly. 747474 I would have wanted.

The same could be said about sand melters, independent or not- though there the stat does not even exist, while the fusioning ones does.

The old guardian would have worked fine, but the current one can force someone to have non-colored ones. Same with otherarmy etc, so I was wondering.

I think he means BPs, you just want aged trees, not tokened ones.

Edit: actually nvm, when I wrote that I was sleepy. I'm rather sure there is a difference between no homeland and no man's land though. No homeland would be the default, where as no man's land would count as a real "land".

MP5, me. Edit: Reminds me, ALL spells? guardian, mirror, etc?

The only reason why I kept this whole issue alive was that passant completely overreacted, when I pointed out that the word should be changed. From then onwards he bans me from his tool (fine, idc), but the complete manner in which he handles me is pretty much one big insult. Dragging Golemians in general (which I can understand, I was hoping to have some bargaining back and forth, but to some degree understandable), but then further "veterans should know better"- "you distort my words" when I ask for specification because the whole text seems to hide that everyone needs to pay and was already ensuring he got his pay. sorry passant, but in this case you're the one who insults me, and not the other way around.

It is also the sellers responsibility to use the proper words- the way he worded the whole paragraphs is just plain confusing, and I politely asked him to change it, explaining why. The result? He personally attacks me and Golemus in general, and turns this whole topic into a rant about a lot of other things. Sorry pip, but the way you handle some things, (although you do provide the neutral 3rd voice here), you act exactly the same way like me... I am stubborn regarding this case, and I know it- but passant's way of handling it is not listening, and merely insulting me in return.

The warning was made by me- I just wished to point out it may be seen as an abuse, and the fact that it's two different players might exist- just looking at the IP they will be seen as one. And, shared tools do have a regulation on them, that the transfer via ITC should not be overly abused. I'm not sure what the punishment will be, but Mur warned people.

Which still raises the issue of most veterans/hardcore repeat walkers cut through viscosity like butter, which defies the reason it was implemented in the first place. I believe the land loyalty option seems the most appropriate.

And I again, repeat. What you demand is by your own admission not a donation anymore, because it becomes mandatory. I asked other people myself: A donation is voluntary. You seem hellbent on the fact that i will try to cheat you out of your tool usage and then resell the glass. For..what? It isn't as if there is a market for glass aside from collecting them yet. You are the one who misreads my words, then declaring my intention utterly different- if you misunderstood okay, I explained and you still refuse to see the point I was making there. If my usage of the anguage was too subtle for you to understand, I apologize. But where are the words of: "This time I would not donate (if you do make glass- we were talking about that earlier.)" The following parts were exactly as I summarized above. The fact that you so easily get angry at me, refuse to listen to my arguments AND take drastic measure makes me wonder why I am currently even bothering to discuss this. "Use so often?" I have, as far as I can recall, used your services exactly 3 times. The first time I did not realize I needed to provide heat, my bad. The second time I decided since you were so nice the 1st time I would donate an enchanted memory stone. The third time resulted in this mess. I simply found your repeated asking for a donation (note: I still consider this utterly voluntary and not something you keep pursuing, which makes it more like a forced fee), of which at least most of the process has been put onto this topic by now. My conclusion is simply that you apparently easily distrust me, get angry easily and in the end refuse to read my arguments, turning it all into a rant against the richer and explain it all with your principles, ignoring any kind of opinion I have. So be it. And before you forget it: A donation is voluntary. Not. Forced. That would be a fee. Edit: I added the bigger part in case I omitted some background info lacked: I gave you heat+sand, said I would not donate- and you have the gall to demand it still. [spoiler] [09/10/11 10:48] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Well, I would like to get some glass melted as well. I was going to donate heat. [09/10/11 10:48] [b]Passant the weak:[/b] [color=#305681]*[i]smiles[/i]*[/color] I need 15K [09/10/11 10:48] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]That I could provide. [09/10/11 10:48] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Passant the weak passed Raw Glass to lone wolf[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:48] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Actually..let me fill the 18k jar. easier. [09/10/11 10:48] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]brb. [09/10/11 10:49] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]LW, better wait 5 minutes before next batch [09/10/11 10:50] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]I fear shado gives me sand that would mix with yours [09/10/11 10:50] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]rightie. [09/10/11 10:52] [b]:[/b][color=#305681][i]Nimrodel huggles Shem[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:52] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]hello shem [09/10/11 10:52] [b]:[/b][color=#305681][i]*Shemhazaj* huggles Nim back[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:53] [b]*Shemhazaj*:[/b]hi MoM [09/10/11 10:53] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b] [color=#305681]*[i]pokes LW[/i]*[/color] so the caogulator business didn't go as well as you'd have hoped, eh ? [09/10/11 10:53] [b]Nimrodel:[/b]momy! [09/10/11 10:54] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]also looking for losses =) and coins ! [09/10/11 10:54] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]-.- [09/10/11 10:56] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]Je me demande si quelqu'un aurait acheter la bouteille de liquide française de moi ... [09/10/11 10:56] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]qui s'est avéré faux = S [09/10/11 10:56] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]c'est sacrément -.- [09/10/11 10:56] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]lalalala: P [09/10/11 10:56] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]wow qui n'a pas changé [09/10/11 10:56] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Master Of Magic passed Flask of Liquid French to shemhazaj[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]enjoyyy [09/10/11 10:57] [b]:[/b][color=#305681][i]Passant the weak looks at the flask suspiciously[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:57] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Someone drank the wrong potion.. [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]Orr ssi you'dd ratherr Inn Frenchh: profiter [09/10/11 10:57] [b]*Shemhazaj*:[/b]I don't want it! [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]genuine French? [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]Coagulator business? [09/10/11 10:57] [b]*Shemhazaj*:[/b]I've been speaking italian a lot yesterday... [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]yess Passant [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]ittt passss Backk Okayy thenn [09/10/11 10:57] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Where did passant go to? [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]= S [09/10/11 10:57] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]I am here [09/10/11 10:58] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Passant, can you melt my sand now? [09/10/11 10:58] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]roundabout [09/10/11 10:58] [b]*Shemhazaj*:[/b] ([color=#888888][i]brb, food[/i][/color]) [09/10/11 10:58] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Yes I can [09/10/11 10:58] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]*Shadowseeker* passed Sand to Passant the weak[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:58] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]*Shadowseeker* passed Heat storing Jar 18K to Passant the weak[/i][/color] [09/10/11 10:58] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]The heat inside is the donation. [09/10/11 10:59] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Haha, that won't work SS [09/10/11 10:59] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Huh? [09/10/11 10:59] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]The donation is in addition to heat [09/10/11 10:59] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]This is crystal clear in our terms and conditions [09/10/11 10:59] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Shouls I process anyway? [09/10/11 10:59] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]No hurry for the donation [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]II thoughtt Thatt Sandd meltingg outils areee Inn GM ... [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]* toolllls [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Master Of Magic:[/b]* Golemus [09/10/11 11:00] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Hm..well, you do get double the glass I would get out of it.. [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]We have kept our independant superior tools MoM [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]True SS [09/10/11 11:01] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Please let me know if I process before the heat leaks [09/10/11 11:01] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]I'm not too happy that I'm asked to donate every time you melt for me- I'd prefer one time payments for a longer amount of time. [09/10/11 11:02] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]Why not do that then. >> [09/10/11 11:02] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]We are open to bulk arrangements [09/10/11 11:02] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Well, I'd prefer to see 8 glass instead of 4- but this time, I wouldn't be donating then. [09/10/11 11:03] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]I'd be supplying sand in return for your melting services. [09/10/11 11:03] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Sand is a donation. [color=#305681]*[i]smiles[/i]*[/color] It is accepytable [09/10/11 11:04] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Aye, but it wouldn't be one sand every time I ask you to melt. [09/10/11 11:04] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]If I were to do that, I could melt it myself. [09/10/11 11:04] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Passant the weak melted Sand and created Raw Glass[/i][/color] [09/10/11 11:05] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]For long term or bulk agreement, I suggest we discuss on forum PM or ingame PM [09/10/11 11:05] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Forum PM..less bulky than here. [09/10/11 11:05] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Make an offer and we shall discuss it [09/10/11 11:06] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Passant the weak passed Raw Glass to Shadowseeker[/i][/color] [09/10/11 11:06] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Please send ITC for your donated sand when you get it *smiles [09/10/11 11:08] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Passant the weak passed Heat storing Jar 18K to shadowseeker[/i][/color] [09/10/11 11:11] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]So, are you ready Passant? [09/10/11 11:12] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]yes LW [09/10/11 11:12] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]I've sent the PM, passant. [09/10/11 11:12] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]I'd suggest a refresh to see it. [09/10/11 11:13] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Lone Wolf passed Sand to Passant the weak[/i][/color] [09/10/11 11:14] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]LW, want the jar? [09/10/11 11:14] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]Sure. [09/10/11 11:14] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]SS, give me time to answer please [/spoiler] Edit edit: All I wanted for you to do is to stop claiming it is a donation. Which I already did in my first post. When I give the reasons, etc, you turn it into a grudge. You ban me from your tool. You start a discussion with very insultive undertones. Where am I in the wrong, after your treatment, to demand that you stop calling it a donation when it isn't?

I did think it was okay- but he clearly demanded a fee from me this time, and the way he keeps insisting makes it exactly that: a fee. Which is why I originally thought it to be a good idea- but the whole way this was handled by him this time simply makes me insist that it is no longer a donation- at least not for me. I can only conclude from my own experience, which is short and obviously unpleasant.

The request to change your wording from donation to fee still exists. Here is the chatlog, or at least the relevant parts: [spoiler] [09/10/11 11:00] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Hm..well, you do get double the glass I would get out of it.. [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]We have kept our independant superior tools MoM [09/10/11 11:00] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]True SS [09/10/11 11:01] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Please let me know if I process before the heat leaks [09/10/11 11:01] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]I'm not too happy that I'm asked to donate every time you melt for me- I'd prefer one time payments for a longer amount of time. [09/10/11 11:02] [b]Lone Wolf:[/b]Why not do that then. >> [09/10/11 11:02] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]We are open to bulk arrangements [09/10/11 11:02] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Well, I'd prefer to see 8 glass instead of 4- [size=5][b]but this time, I wouldn't be donating then.[/b][/size] [09/10/11 11:03] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]I'd be supplying sand in return for your melting services. [09/10/11 11:03] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Sand is a donation. [color=#305681]*[i]smiles[/i]*[/color] It is accepytable [09/10/11 11:04] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b][b]Aye, but it wouldn't be one sand every time I ask you to melt.[/b] [09/10/11 11:04] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]If I were to do that, I could melt it myself. [09/10/11 11:04] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Passant the weak melted Sand and created Raw Glass[/i][/color] [09/10/11 11:05] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]For long term or bulk agreement, I suggest we discuss on forum PM or ingame PM [09/10/11 11:05] [b]*Shadowseeker*:[/b]Forum PM..less bulky than here. [09/10/11 11:05] [b]Passant the weak:[/b]Make an offer and we shall discuss it [09/10/11 11:06] [b]:[/b][color=#1D6D94][i]Passant the weak passed Raw Glass to Shadowseeker[/i][/color] [/spoiler] To summarize: I said for this time when we were still not unsure of our agreement, I would not pay. I then further stated what I would not accept in an arrangement. I gave indications of what I would suggest for our agreement though. Your request of 1 sand is exactly what I stated I would not take in an arrangement- thus when you asked for exactly that payment, I asked Shem to pay you with the silver he owed me. Edit: Keep your silver. You demanded it, I paid up. It isn't like I lack it and I do pay up. I hate debts. Even if it will be the last time I trade with someone, because I consider the demand not fully acceptable.

As much as you seem to dislike greedy people, you are actually the one sounding greedy here. Your payment was on the way. Or resolved actually. I'm not sure, I had it arranged to be given soon enough. [quote name='Passant the Weak' timestamp='1313097193' post='90022'] the donation is mandatory from any customer that is part of a guild or owns the rights and tools to produce goods or collect resources in any form (water, heat, wood, stones, etc...). [/quote] [quote name='Passant the Weak' timestamp='1318167981' post='93643']I let you time to refuse the trade and you confirmed it instead. All that was made in a public chat in a crowded area (MDP). While a misunderstanding can be understood and easily solved, trying to force trade in order to get items for free is not acceptable in my opinion. [/quote] Excuse me, but as with shared tools...everyone in the realm has access. So basically you demand a payment from everyone who wishes to use your tools. Fine. But then it is NOT a donation. As for the chat- I did explicitly say "but this time I will not make a donation". I will take a chatlog if you still insist that I did not say it. The payment was on its way as I said in the PM- it will be paid, but as a [b]payment, not[/b] as a donation.

As much as I originally thought this was a good idea- I would like the word donation be changed, because it is not a donation, but a fee you demand. Flexible price as you wish to put it. A donation in my opinion is voluntary. And if you go as far as demanding a donation after someone did state before he would not make one- well, then it is a fee. Using the word donation is just pure misleading..

23 memory stones.

I've got one with 160 age if you want it.

It was an area where he commited previous crimes though. Which by normal standards would mean increased punishment.

SW with Age 199. Offer in PM if you don't want to spam this topic up?

How many stones for one?

So to understand properly- if one matches the price, it's an immediate buy?